Why is spamming 3 a viable build?

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

 

Implying d/p or s/d thief does not instantly vaporize in a +1 situation.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

>

> Implying d/p or s/d thief does not instantly vaporize in a +1 situation.

 

Why should a d/p thief not be able to quickly down a target in a +1 situation? For many opponents it actually cannot.

[Panda.3620]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> > > > > > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

> > > >

> > > > Doesn't work like that mate. On a 5v5 it's another different scenario. On theory everything sounds beautiful, you gotta play the game to understand, the top 2 on Leaderboards right now is a p/p thief for exemple. With this build, picking classes on teamfights are extremely easy even though the build lacks against 1v1. You can delete anyone and they will don't see you coming. I don't mind p/p thieves, they're easy to kill for me, but they disturb the balance in a team scenario cause they will down will in one or two unloads and you will not have a chance to fight back.

> > > >

> > > > Anyways, here's the only true tip on how to deal with it, babysit your team and kill the enemy thief when you see him before he kitten your team up.

> > > > Pretty simple.

> > >

> > > No on a 5v5 you've got the best chance of beating builds like pistol thief. These one trick pony builds are at their worst when teams cam focus them down.

> >

> > Yeah, go play pvp mate. Get some experience. You can be a very mechanical player, doesn't mean nothing when the thief kitten up half of your team, anyways, since you're so good with trick pony builds, 1v1 me, maybe I can enlight you myself.

>

> I've got the legendary pvp back so I'm pretty sure that is enough pvp experience to comment against somebody with no actual points and lots of ad-hominem. Myself and several other people have told you how to beat p/p deadeye, read the text and do it in the game. It's not hard.

 

I'm mid plat, backpack means nothing. Anyways, your reply tells me enough since you dont wanna 1v1 me.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Panda.3620" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> > > > > > > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Doesn't work like that mate. On a 5v5 it's another different scenario. On theory everything sounds beautiful, you gotta play the game to understand, the top 2 on Leaderboards right now is a p/p thief for exemple. With this build, picking classes on teamfights are extremely easy even though the build lacks against 1v1. You can delete anyone and they will don't see you coming. I don't mind p/p thieves, they're easy to kill for me, but they disturb the balance in a team scenario cause they will down will in one or two unloads and you will not have a chance to fight back.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyways, here's the only true tip on how to deal with it, babysit your team and kill the enemy thief when you see him before he kitten your team up.

> > > > > Pretty simple.

> > > >

> > > > No on a 5v5 you've got the best chance of beating builds like pistol thief. These one trick pony builds are at their worst when teams cam focus them down.

> > >

> > > Yeah, go play pvp mate. Get some experience. You can be a very mechanical player, doesn't mean nothing when the thief kitten up half of your team, anyways, since you're so good with trick pony builds, 1v1 me, maybe I can enlight you myself.

> >

> > I've got the legendary pvp back so I'm pretty sure that is enough pvp experience to comment against somebody with no actual points and lots of ad-hominem. Myself and several other people have told you how to beat p/p deadeye, read the text and do it in the game. It's not hard.

>

> I'm mid plat, backpack means nothing. Anyways, your reply tells me enough since you dont wanna 1v1 me.

 

I've been low plat for every season I've played gw2 pvp, 1v1 ability doesn't determine a builds effectiveness in 5v5, and this isn't a competition about who is better in gw2. This is a debate about a build's effectiveness and justification to be nerfed. You haven't provided any such justification.

[Panda.3620]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> > > > > > > > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Doesn't work like that mate. On a 5v5 it's another different scenario. On theory everything sounds beautiful, you gotta play the game to understand, the top 2 on Leaderboards right now is a p/p thief for exemple. With this build, picking classes on teamfights are extremely easy even though the build lacks against 1v1. You can delete anyone and they will don't see you coming. I don't mind p/p thieves, they're easy to kill for me, but they disturb the balance in a team scenario cause they will down will in one or two unloads and you will not have a chance to fight back.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyways, here's the only true tip on how to deal with it, babysit your team and kill the enemy thief when you see him before he kitten your team up.

> > > > > > Pretty simple.

> > > > >

> > > > > No on a 5v5 you've got the best chance of beating builds like pistol thief. These one trick pony builds are at their worst when teams cam focus them down.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, go play pvp mate. Get some experience. You can be a very mechanical player, doesn't mean nothing when the thief kitten up half of your team, anyways, since you're so good with trick pony builds, 1v1 me, maybe I can enlight you myself.

> > >

> > > I've got the legendary pvp back so I'm pretty sure that is enough pvp experience to comment against somebody with no actual points and lots of ad-hominem. Myself and several other people have told you how to beat p/p deadeye, read the text and do it in the game. It's not hard.

> >

> > I'm mid plat, backpack means nothing. Anyways, your reply tells me enough since you dont wanna 1v1 me.

>

> I've been low plat for every season I've played gw2 pvp, 1v1 ability doesn't determine a builds effectiveness in 5v5, and this isn't a competition about who is better in gw2. This is a debate about a build's effectiveness and justification to be nerfed. You haven't provided any such justification.

 

"1v1 ability doesn't determine a builds effectiveness in 5v5"

Finally got my point.

 

P/P Effectiveness is broken.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Panda.3620" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> > > > > > > > > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Doesn't work like that mate. On a 5v5 it's another different scenario. On theory everything sounds beautiful, you gotta play the game to understand, the top 2 on Leaderboards right now is a p/p thief for exemple. With this build, picking classes on teamfights are extremely easy even though the build lacks against 1v1. You can delete anyone and they will don't see you coming. I don't mind p/p thieves, they're easy to kill for me, but they disturb the balance in a team scenario cause they will down will in one or two unloads and you will not have a chance to fight back.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyways, here's the only true tip on how to deal with it, babysit your team and kill the enemy thief when you see him before he kitten your team up.

> > > > > > > Pretty simple.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No on a 5v5 you've got the best chance of beating builds like pistol thief. These one trick pony builds are at their worst when teams cam focus them down.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah, go play pvp mate. Get some experience. You can be a very mechanical player, doesn't mean nothing when the thief kitten up half of your team, anyways, since you're so good with trick pony builds, 1v1 me, maybe I can enlight you myself.

> > > >

> > > > I've got the legendary pvp back so I'm pretty sure that is enough pvp experience to comment against somebody with no actual points and lots of ad-hominem. Myself and several other people have told you how to beat p/p deadeye, read the text and do it in the game. It's not hard.

> > >

> > > I'm mid plat, backpack means nothing. Anyways, your reply tells me enough since you dont wanna 1v1 me.

> >

> > I've been low plat for every season I've played gw2 pvp, 1v1 ability doesn't determine a builds effectiveness in 5v5, and this isn't a competition about who is better in gw2. This is a debate about a build's effectiveness and justification to be nerfed. You haven't provided any such justification.

>

> "1v1 ability doesn't determine a builds effectiveness in 5v5"

> Finally got my point.

>

> P/P killed me...howsers?

 

Cool story bro

[Majirah.5089]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> Thief does too much constant damage with too many active defenses (teleports, evades, stealth & stuns ) while the class is clearly designed for burst damage.

>

> The easiest way to fix this is:

> - Thief does damage based in the available initiative.

> - The less initiative the less damage it does.

> - Percentage of damage loss can be relevant in PvP\WvW and neligible in PvE so raid thiefs arent affected for this change.

> - Example: For each initiative lost in wvw it gets a1 stack of -8% damage and condition duration, 7% if the thief has 15 initiative. (stuns and such obliviously are not affected by this)

> - Autoattacks makes the initiative to stall so thief can't regain initiative while autoattacking (while spamming AA it doesn't do more damage each)

> - Stealth consume also initiative, as such the longer a thief stays invisible the less burst has.

>

> This way the player also has to manage the initiative and play with it instead spam as soon as it has the initiative, it has to manage and time the burst accordingly so is more about attack \ stop instead spamspamspam.

>

> With this change it wouldn't even be needed to change anything else, as the initiative already balance the burst.

>

> Also with this simple change this situations would be avoided:

> - thief teleporting (using multiple teleports ) from out of sight burst player in one second.

> - DE in permanent stealth does 50k damage with one shot.

>

 

So in other words you just want to delete thief. How about all other classes get 20% less damage for each weapon skill they have on cooldown? How about all other classes cooldowns don’t recharge when they auto attack? Sounds ridiculous right? Your suggestion is not even close to being a good one.

 

All thieves skills are about managing initiative. Have you ever even played one? Not only does initiative effectively put all other weapon abilities on a effective cooldown, but there is a single pool shared between both weapons. It has benefits like being able to use the same skill more than once, but it also has huge draw backs that people like you conveniently ignore. How about other classes not use their abilities if they are off cooldown? Shouldn’t just kindly use their abilities right? It honestly sounds like you have no experience playing thief and just want it to not be able to do anything.

 

Stealth consume initiative? How about as long as a ranger pet is active it adds seconds to the cooldown of weapons skills? Or how about each time a guardian activates one of its virtues all of its weapon skills go on cooldown? Again, absolutely ridiculous suggestions right? They are on par with yours.

 

Also deadeye in stealth does not deal 50k in one hit. It is revealed for one thing and the set up requires more than a single ability, involves a good amount of time, and has several obvious tells. I have also never seen it hit that high in pvp. I’ve seen it hit in the high 20ks, but I’ve seen that from other classes as well.

 

Thieves are not the only class that can burst down players quickly. Stop pretending that to be the case. Your whole post is honestly one of the worst suggestions I’ve have ever read concerning thief.