Hylo.1968 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > free crit, invlun, health, block, stab,...ect...all the free defense has to go > > > > > > > How about offensive autoprocs ?:> > > those too, especially the mesmer ones > > edit: you cant be baiting me for the PI for thief? > .... do i miss something on my mesmer? i never had an offensive passive proc o_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannigan.9831 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 You pretty much nailed it. Its like a crazy person come up with a lot of this stuff. So much skill gets wrung out of the game with all this automatic op stuff. The CD shouldn't have been increased on some of them in the latest balanace pass the traits should have been completely changed to something different for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro.3176 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 As mentioned, conditions are still a mess. They made good progress in nerfing the condi stacks and increasing duration with the recent condi rebalance patch, but all that accomplished was nerfing underplayed condi builds into uselessness. That's a good first step. The next is to **reduce condi cleanse* across all classes (preferably by nerfing traits). Boom. Now you have condi builds being useful, but having to play a longer strategic game rather than burst people down with 12 stacks of whatever. ... but they can't do this. Why? Because they left condi scourge (and to a lesser extent mesmer) more or less untouched by that balance patch, so you still need to pack tons of cleanse to compete against them.. > @"Obindo.6802" said: > Offensive instant casts. I'd also add that to the list. These are okay if they trigger an animation or shoot a projectile or something that can be reacted to. They're much more frustrating when the opponent has no chance to react (eg. Steal, Overcharged Shot, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > @"lordhelmos.7623" said: >words Or we can do perfect imbalance where everyone is a little bit broken, but in ways that make other classes, builds, or specs counter them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I just wish we had a random BG system like WoW with about 8 - 10 fun maps with a bunch of different modes. Leave ranked an conquest-only for 5v5 premades and let the rest of us have fun and get rewarded with a decent gold/hour rate in a more varied random queue (with bigger teams). This way, it can be fun and thrilling, but you can have more fun with different builds. Your imbalance shows less when you have different gamemodes with different roles/archetypes required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > @"Hylo.1968" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > free crit, invlun, health, block, stab,...ect...all the free defense has to go > > > > > > > > > > How about offensive autoprocs ?:> > > > > those too, especially the mesmer ones > > > > edit: you cant be baiting me for the PI for thief? > > > > .... do i miss something on my mesmer? i never had an offensive passive proc o_o > no lesser chaos storm on heal? never torment on shatter? there are others depending on type of mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Hylo.1968" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > free crit, invlun, health, block, stab,...ect...all the free defense has to go > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about offensive autoprocs ?:> > > > > > > those too, especially the mesmer ones > > > > > > edit: you cant be baiting me for the PI for thief? > > > > > > > .... do i miss something on my mesmer? i never had an offensive passive proc o_o > > > > no lesser chaos storm on heal? never torment on shatter? there are others depending on type of mesmer. you are obviously trolling ,following by that we eliminate all condi specs from the game . Easier to remove all traits from the game xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 PI is an active skill and a good skill design itself. The player has to watch for animations and need to interrupt something to get the trait working. Only the dmg shouldn't be too high when the player has access to a lot of interrupt skills. PI dmg just got nerfed if i'm not mistaken, dunno how much dmg it now does but it is maybe even balanced now. PI is a much better skill design than any passive trait in this game. People rly crying about active traits even requires skill and somehow fast reactions ? Oh my... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emapudapus.1307 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 teleports that arent skill shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Seizure.4985 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I think that all damage immunities outside of base dodge and block skills need to become some value of damage reduction instead. Dodge is crucial to this game, and blocks have counter-play (unblockable, certain cc skills, etc). Evasions should remain the same, but some evasion skills should become damage reduction if they allow for a class to attack/perform actions while evading. On top of this, damage reduction should be capped per class. Some could go all the way to 90%, while others are capped at 75% or 67% depending on their kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hylo.1968 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Hylo.1968" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > free crit, invlun, health, block, stab,...ect...all the free defense has to go > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about offensive autoprocs ?:> > > > > > > those too, especially the mesmer ones > > > > > > edit: you cant be baiting me for the PI for thief? > > > > > > > .... do i miss something on my mesmer? i never had an offensive passive proc o_o > > > > no lesser chaos storm on heal? never torment on shatter? there are others depending on type of mesmer. well , the torment on shatter (3rd illusion major trait) is an active mechanic ... and yes lesser chaos storm is a def proc, but nothing , compared with the other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > @"Hylo.1968" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Hylo.1968" said: > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > > free crit, invlun, health, block, stab,...ect...all the free defense has to go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about offensive autoprocs ?:> > > > > > > > > those too, especially the mesmer ones > > > > > > > > edit: you cant be baiting me for the PI for thief? > > > > > > > > > > .... do i miss something on my mesmer? i never had an offensive passive proc o_o > > > > > > > no lesser chaos storm on heal? never torment on shatter? there are others depending on type of mesmer. > > well , the torment on shatter (3rd illusion major trait) is an active mechanic ... and yes lesser chaos storm is a def proc, but nothing , compared with the other classes. anyone noticed 35s cd which in reality ,mesmer doesnt have 35s cd heals to match it ,imo its weak trait, there is 25% damage reduction which is way stronger ...unless your clone production is low...which is mirage mostly,but chrono never have problems. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeLZedaR.4790 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"lordhelmos.7623" said: > > Because balance is in disarray among all classes, I think it is better to target and discuss specific mechanics that are problematic: > > > > **Skills that provide invulnerability and/or full condition immunity while still allowing players to deal damage** > > Classic example of having your cake and eating it too. If your going to be able to mitigate 100% of the damage incoming to you, there needs to be an offensive price. > > > > **Skills that autoproc invulnerability, stability, or condition immunity without having any input provided by the player** > > Defensive autoprocs are just straight cancer. Why even bother playing when the AI can play for you AND better than you? > > > > **Insanely high burst skills that can be done with less than a 1 second animation delay and/or initiated from stealth** > > Backstab, Death's Judgement, Mind Wrack.... there are so many of these. Being able to 100-0 someone with no counterplay is unfun for everyone. These skills need to have huge tells otherwise you get new players that join Gw2 and get one shot without having any idea about what just happened then just uninstall the next hour. This is one of the biggest reasons many of the new people I tried to get onboard this game just quit. They just cite "this game is too full of BS to be fun." Burst skills done correctly are things like Final Thrust and Eviscerate on warrior. > > > > **Condition auto procs and auto removes** > > Stacking 3-4 more conditions on someone just by autoattacking is plain stupid. The condition/clear game is too dependent on autoprocs and autoremoves, surviving conditions is way more dependent on the AI then the player. Manual removals seem to matter very little with the rate that conditions are applied. The entire condition game needs to be slowed down and be opened for strategic decisions. Condition play right now is just spam spam spam. > > > > **Passive Traits with greater effects than manually activated skills** > > Burst skills, immobilize, stuns, and dazes should be things that are manually activated. The fact that so many of these exist on autoproc skills is just bad design. AI wars. > > > > **Self-stackers that can obtain maximum boon benefits without the assistance of teammates** > > Self-stack 25 might, blow up everyone with 4500 power driven bursts. Who needs support classes and teammates right? > > > > > > That mean Power REAPER is the most balanced specialization in the game right now > > cuz dont have all of the above Passive spinal shivers. But hey that’s pretty close. Apart from UA and sotm rev is like this aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Th y just need to Nerf AoE skills no AoE Skill should be doing similar amount of damage to a single target That single target skills are capable of, and remove the passive defense cancer then they can tone down the damage on single targets accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"lordhelmos.7623" said: > > > Because balance is in disarray among all classes, I think it is better to target and discuss specific mechanics that are problematic: > > > > > > **Skills that provide invulnerability and/or full condition immunity while still allowing players to deal damage** > > > Classic example of having your cake and eating it too. If your going to be able to mitigate 100% of the damage incoming to you, there needs to be an offensive price. > > > > > > **Skills that autoproc invulnerability, stability, or condition immunity without having any input provided by the player** > > > Defensive autoprocs are just straight cancer. Why even bother playing when the AI can play for you AND better than you? > > > > > > **Insanely high burst skills that can be done with less than a 1 second animation delay and/or initiated from stealth** > > > Backstab, Death's Judgement, Mind Wrack.... there are so many of these. Being able to 100-0 someone with no counterplay is unfun for everyone. These skills need to have huge tells otherwise you get new players that join Gw2 and get one shot without having any idea about what just happened then just uninstall the next hour. This is one of the biggest reasons many of the new people I tried to get onboard this game just quit. They just cite "this game is too full of BS to be fun." Burst skills done correctly are things like Final Thrust and Eviscerate on warrior. > > > > > > **Condition auto procs and auto removes** > > > Stacking 3-4 more conditions on someone just by autoattacking is plain stupid. The condition/clear game is too dependent on autoprocs and autoremoves, surviving conditions is way more dependent on the AI then the player. Manual removals seem to matter very little with the rate that conditions are applied. The entire condition game needs to be slowed down and be opened for strategic decisions. Condition play right now is just spam spam spam. > > > > > > **Passive Traits with greater effects than manually activated skills** > > > Burst skills, immobilize, stuns, and dazes should be things that are manually activated. The fact that so many of these exist on autoproc skills is just bad design. AI wars. > > > > > > **Self-stackers that can obtain maximum boon benefits without the assistance of teammates** > > > Self-stack 25 might, blow up everyone with 4500 power driven bursts. Who needs support classes and teammates right? > > > > > > > > > > That mean Power REAPER is the most balanced specialization in the game right now > > > > cuz dont have all of the above > Passive spinal shivers. But hey that’s pretty close. > > Apart from UA and sotm rev is like this aswell. > > > Well the thing i hate the most in PVP right now is the fact 1- that no one use his dodge any more unless it have a DPS mechanic (BTW this is PVP not RAID) Cuz they have enough invuln , block , attacks with evade and AI to eliminate the need for them to use the dodge 2- some classes wont use auto attack cuz his f skill is better (AKA Scourge )and when u tell him to have mercy on u and start using his auto attack his answer will be NAA i ll wait for the f skill 3- and other specialization have to use dodge and auto attack cuz they dont have another options that is balance look like right now one solution i can think right now is to make invuln a BOON (not to be added to the corruption table and steal) may be that will help i just want PVP to be player vs player not hidden AI mechanic VS hidden AI mechanic at least we can do something . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeLZedaR.4790 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"lordhelmos.7623" said: > > > > Because balance is in disarray among all classes, I think it is better to target and discuss specific mechanics that are problematic: > > > > > > > > **Skills that provide invulnerability and/or full condition immunity while still allowing players to deal damage** > > > > Classic example of having your cake and eating it too. If your going to be able to mitigate 100% of the damage incoming to you, there needs to be an offensive price. > > > > > > > > **Skills that autoproc invulnerability, stability, or condition immunity without having any input provided by the player** > > > > Defensive autoprocs are just straight cancer. Why even bother playing when the AI can play for you AND better than you? > > > > > > > > **Insanely high burst skills that can be done with less than a 1 second animation delay and/or initiated from stealth** > > > > Backstab, Death's Judgement, Mind Wrack.... there are so many of these. Being able to 100-0 someone with no counterplay is unfun for everyone. These skills need to have huge tells otherwise you get new players that join Gw2 and get one shot without having any idea about what just happened then just uninstall the next hour. This is one of the biggest reasons many of the new people I tried to get onboard this game just quit. They just cite "this game is too full of BS to be fun." Burst skills done correctly are things like Final Thrust and Eviscerate on warrior. > > > > > > > > **Condition auto procs and auto removes** > > > > Stacking 3-4 more conditions on someone just by autoattacking is plain stupid. The condition/clear game is too dependent on autoprocs and autoremoves, surviving conditions is way more dependent on the AI then the player. Manual removals seem to matter very little with the rate that conditions are applied. The entire condition game needs to be slowed down and be opened for strategic decisions. Condition play right now is just spam spam spam. > > > > > > > > **Passive Traits with greater effects than manually activated skills** > > > > Burst skills, immobilize, stuns, and dazes should be things that are manually activated. The fact that so many of these exist on autoproc skills is just bad design. AI wars. > > > > > > > > **Self-stackers that can obtain maximum boon benefits without the assistance of teammates** > > > > Self-stack 25 might, blow up everyone with 4500 power driven bursts. Who needs support classes and teammates right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That mean Power REAPER is the most balanced specialization in the game right now > > > > > > cuz dont have all of the above > > Passive spinal shivers. But hey that’s pretty close. > > > > Apart from UA and sotm rev is like this aswell. > > > > > > > > Well the thing i hate the most in PVP right now is the fact > 1- that no one use his dodge any more unless it have a DPS mechanic (BTW this is PVP not RAID) > Cuz they have enough invuln , block , attacks with evade and AI to eliminate the need for them to use the dodge > 2- some classes wont use auto attack cuz his f skill is better (AKA Scourge )and when u tell him to have mercy on u and start using his > auto attack his answer will be NAA i ll wait for the f skill > 3- and other specialization have to use dodge and auto attack cuz they dont have another options > that is balance look like right now > > one solution i can think right now is to make invuln a BOON (not to be added to the corruption table and steal) > may be that will help > > i just want PVP to be player vs player not hidden AI mechanic VS hidden AI mechanic at least we can do something . While invulns and skill evades are a little bit tok common, I don’t think its as bad as people make it to be. Damage immunities are so invaluable rn only because damage is out of control, and is hardly possible to mitigate by normal damage reduction means. If damage gets lowered across the board like it should invulns will be nerfed in value accordingly, and things like shroud, protection, barrier etc. which just absorb damage essentially will gain value. Also not using dodge is quite an exaggeration. Though I can agree on autos. Some things like holo forge have too low cds on other skills so they don’t even need to auto for constant pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigo.9037 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Id like to emphasize how important it is that teleports get severely nerfed. imo, i dont even mind that they exist. but the thing is.. they can teleport UP cliffs and buildings. Battle of Khylo is such a completely broken map because thieves and core guards and revs absolutely dominate that map. completely. BAM out of nowhere you get hit by Guardian hammer attacks and insta-cast dmg procs. now 60-70% of your hp is gone. you couldnt even see the damn guy because he was below the building. but suddenly hes in your face and has already taken away more than half of your hp in less than 1 second. thats the equivalent of stealth bursts... They need to nerf/change how teleports work so they cant be used to jump through buildings or up cliffs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inoki.6048 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"lordhelmos.7623" said: > "this game is too full of BS to be fun." one can't help but agree. GW2 in one sentence. Many people I showed this game to said the exact same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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