Apachai.9475 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I dont really care one way or the other, it's fine for me if it's available elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > If you dont raid you will NEVER get the Envoy armor so whether you choose to write a long forum post or raid is up to you. Seems like everyone is a victim of the community instead of their own hero. Go and raid if you want the armor. > > TRUE talk... I have to ask a few questions to fully understand what you want. > > 1.) Is it the skin you want or the functionality or both? > > 2.) What do you feel is an appropriate open world task to warrant the armor? > > 3.) What is your ideal time frame for completing it? > > 4.) Are fractals included? > > 5.) Are dungeons included? > > 6.) Is it the Envoy raid skin you want or a unique skin? > > > Help me understand your vision for what a pve armor set would be other than a gold grind. > > I should also provide more clarity from my end as well. I would be happy to see the legendary functionality be available for open world pve players. I would still like it to be expensive. And I think it should have it's own skin that looks decent but not quite as epic as the raid or wvw legendary armor to reflect the difference in difficult to obtain. But if you guys want legendary stat swapping on ascended gear I am all for that being available! All I want is to raid * without being forced to already have a bazillion LI/KP, * without being forced to play Chrono and/or Druid, but the class I actually enjoy to play, * without having to be a NEET, since most statics/guilds only seem to raid during the week. ...and yeah, it easy to say that spending time on the forum keeps me from actually doing stuff, but: If I take a look into the LFG, most stuff requires several hundreds of LI plus another several KP. If I'd always organize my own runs (I hate the term "training-run", it devalues people, sounding like you first have to train stuff for ages because you're some kind of id**t), it would probably take me multiple months, if not at least a whole year to get my first set. I want reasonable progress though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Newsflash: it would take multiple months even if you kill every single boss each week. A year to get a full first set is not _too unresonable_ a pace to acquire it (especially the very first set with all the precursor collections and stuff). Legendary Armour is probably the most time-gated craftable in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > If you dont raid you will NEVER get the Envoy armor so whether you choose to write a long forum post or raid is up to you. Seems like everyone is a victim of the community instead of their own hero. Go and raid if you want the armor. > > > > TRUE talk... I have to ask a few questions to fully understand what you want. > > > > 1.) Is it the skin you want or the functionality or both? > > > > 2.) What do you feel is an appropriate open world task to warrant the armor? > > > > 3.) What is your ideal time frame for completing it? > > > > 4.) Are fractals included? > > > > 5.) Are dungeons included? > > > > 6.) Is it the Envoy raid skin you want or a unique skin? > > > > > > Help me understand your vision for what a pve armor set would be other than a gold grind. > > > > I should also provide more clarity from my end as well. I would be happy to see the legendary functionality be available for open world pve players. I would still like it to be expensive. And I think it should have it's own skin that looks decent but not quite as epic as the raid or wvw legendary armor to reflect the difference in difficult to obtain. But if you guys want legendary stat swapping on ascended gear I am all for that being available! > > All I want is to raid > > * without being forced to already have a bazillion LI/KP, > * without being forced to play Chrono and/or Druid, but the class I actually enjoy to play, > * without having to be a NEET, since most statics/guilds only seem to raid during the week. > > ...and yeah, it easy to say that spending time on the forum keeps me from actually doing stuff, but: If I take a look into the LFG, most stuff requires several hundreds of LI plus another several KP. If I'd always organize my own runs (I hate the term "training-run", it devalues people, sounding like you first have to train stuff for ages because you're some kind of id**t), it would probably take me multiple months, if not at least a whole year to get my first set. I want reasonable progress though. I totally understand that and sympathize with you. It is a hard hard task to get over that hurdle. Sadly it's a community issue so the only thing that can be done is to persevere and push through. I had to do that as well and yea it was pain and felt unreasonable. But its doable if you keep pushing even if it takes a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > Newsflash: it would take multiple months even if you kill every single boss each week. > > A year to get a full first set is not _too unresonable_ a pace to acquire it (especially the very first set with all the precursor collections and stuff). > > Legendary Armour is probably the most time-gated craftable in the game. Of course it takes multiple months, but multiple months isn't quite as much as a whole year, is it? For the first set, you need to do the collections and need 150 LI. That's 12 weeks aka 3 months if you exclude W5 to get the raid-locked components. A whole year for the first set is unreasonable. > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > If you dont raid you will NEVER get the Envoy armor so whether you choose to write a long forum post or raid is up to you. Seems like everyone is a victim of the community instead of their own hero. Go and raid if you want the armor. > > > > > > TRUE talk... I have to ask a few questions to fully understand what you want. > > > > > > 1.) Is it the skin you want or the functionality or both? > > > > > > 2.) What do you feel is an appropriate open world task to warrant the armor? > > > > > > 3.) What is your ideal time frame for completing it? > > > > > > 4.) Are fractals included? > > > > > > 5.) Are dungeons included? > > > > > > 6.) Is it the Envoy raid skin you want or a unique skin? > > > > > > > > > Help me understand your vision for what a pve armor set would be other than a gold grind. > > > > > > I should also provide more clarity from my end as well. I would be happy to see the legendary functionality be available for open world pve players. I would still like it to be expensive. And I think it should have it's own skin that looks decent but not quite as epic as the raid or wvw legendary armor to reflect the difference in difficult to obtain. But if you guys want legendary stat swapping on ascended gear I am all for that being available! > > > > All I want is to raid > > > > * without being forced to already have a bazillion LI/KP, > > * without being forced to play Chrono and/or Druid, but the class I actually enjoy to play, > > * without having to be a NEET, since most statics/guilds only seem to raid during the week. > > > > ...and yeah, it easy to say that spending time on the forum keeps me from actually doing stuff, but: If I take a look into the LFG, most stuff requires several hundreds of LI plus another several KP. If I'd always organize my own runs (I hate the term "training-run", it devalues people, sounding like you first have to train stuff for ages because you're some kind of id**t), it would probably take me multiple months, if not at least a whole year to get my first set. I want reasonable progress though. > > I totally understand that and sympathize with you. It is a hard hard task to get over that hurdle. Sadly it's a community issue so the only thing that can be done is to persevere and push through. I had to do that as well and yea it was pain and felt unreasonable. But its doable if you keep pushing even if it takes a year. Yes, it is a community-issue, but it's also a game-design-issue. I already wrote a WoT about that in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > Newsflash: it would take multiple months even if you kill every single boss each week. > > > > A year to get a full first set is not _too unresonable_ a pace to acquire it (especially the very first set with all the precursor collections and stuff). > > > > Legendary Armour is probably the most time-gated craftable in the game. > > Of course it takes multiple months, but multiple months isn't quite as much as a whole year, is it? For the first set, you need to do the collections and need 150 LI. That's 12 weeks aka 3 months if you exclude W5 to get the raid-locked components. A whole year for the first set is unreasonable. > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > If you dont raid you will NEVER get the Envoy armor so whether you choose to write a long forum post or raid is up to you. Seems like everyone is a victim of the community instead of their own hero. Go and raid if you want the armor. > > > > > > > > TRUE talk... I have to ask a few questions to fully understand what you want. > > > > > > > > 1.) Is it the skin you want or the functionality or both? > > > > > > > > 2.) What do you feel is an appropriate open world task to warrant the armor? > > > > > > > > 3.) What is your ideal time frame for completing it? > > > > > > > > 4.) Are fractals included? > > > > > > > > 5.) Are dungeons included? > > > > > > > > 6.) Is it the Envoy raid skin you want or a unique skin? > > > > > > > > > > > > Help me understand your vision for what a pve armor set would be other than a gold grind. > > > > > > > > I should also provide more clarity from my end as well. I would be happy to see the legendary functionality be available for open world pve players. I would still like it to be expensive. And I think it should have it's own skin that looks decent but not quite as epic as the raid or wvw legendary armor to reflect the difference in difficult to obtain. But if you guys want legendary stat swapping on ascended gear I am all for that being available! > > > > > > All I want is to raid > > > > > > * without being forced to already have a bazillion LI/KP, > > > * without being forced to play Chrono and/or Druid, but the class I actually enjoy to play, > > > * without having to be a NEET, since most statics/guilds only seem to raid during the week. > > > > > > ...and yeah, it easy to say that spending time on the forum keeps me from actually doing stuff, but: If I take a look into the LFG, most stuff requires several hundreds of LI plus another several KP. If I'd always organize my own runs (I hate the term "training-run", it devalues people, sounding like you first have to train stuff for ages because you're some kind of id**t), it would probably take me multiple months, if not at least a whole year to get my first set. I want reasonable progress though. > > > > I totally understand that and sympathize with you. It is a hard hard task to get over that hurdle. Sadly it's a community issue so the only thing that can be done is to persevere and push through. I had to do that as well and yea it was pain and felt unreasonable. But its doable if you keep pushing even if it takes a year. > > Yes, it is a community-issue, but it's also a game-design-issue. I already wrote a WoT about that in this thread. > > I get that but I think we need to ask ourselves what is most likely to happen. Anet changing their design specifically to make legendary armor more accessible or getting into the thick of it ourselves and getting things done. But you're right, it is a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > I have to ask a few questions to fully understand what you want. > 1.) Is it the skin you want or the functionality or both? > 2.) What do you feel is an appropriate open world task to warrant the armor? > 3.) What is your ideal time frame for completing it? > 4.) Are fractals included? > 5.) Are dungeons included? > 6.) Is it the Envoy raid skin you want or a unique skin? > Help me understand your vision for what a pve armor set would be other than a gold grind. 1.) Both. There is no good reason to make a Legendary Tier of gear without it's own unique cosmetic. 2.) To be honest, there are a lot of things that can count. Like for example, using The Precursor Crafting Journey of Twilight. I enjoyed needing to so some fractals (low level, easy gate, but I needed to do that content), I also enjoyed needing to do the Jump Puzzles to find some item, Or Maudry was another finer example of things, where you have to complete world events unlock access to points that allow you to empower some item, to complete a collection. Putting some thought into it, there is a lot that can be done to make a Legendary Journey.. a journey, as opposed to just a content grind, which is the anti-thesis to legendary in my mind. 3.) I don't care for the idea of Artificially Time Gating things. I believe that people who have more time to play should be able to complete things as fast as they want, and others can allow things to take as long as they want. I don't think Time Gates add much to the game, but, even if they are added, there should be a means to bypass them. IE: Ascended Crafting Mats, can only be made 1 per day, but you can buy them off the TP if you want to speed up the process. 4.) Answered above 5.) Answered above 6.) I think each method should have it's own unique skin. Evony for Raid Armor, WvW should also have it's own Skin, sPvP should have their own Skin. etc.. Like the Back Items, Like the Weapons, each path should have it's own Skin, to denote how someone got it. Much in the same way each Dungeon had their own Skin. Hope that cleared things up for you. Also, No. I am not going to work for a year to placate some other players demands. Just never going to happen. If Anet thinks that is the future of this game and that they will be able to entice me to do that to get some fucking bauble, they are very wrong, all it will do is piss me off, and pissed off players don't tend to spend money, they just hang around, play, and bitch about how much they hate the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > I have to ask a few questions to fully understand what you want. > > 1.) Is it the skin you want or the functionality or both? > > 2.) What do you feel is an appropriate open world task to warrant the armor? > > 3.) What is your ideal time frame for completing it? > > 4.) Are fractals included? > > 5.) Are dungeons included? > > 6.) Is it the Envoy raid skin you want or a unique skin? > > Help me understand your vision for what a pve armor set would be other than a gold grind. > > 1.) Both. There is no good reason to make a Legendary Tier of gear without it's own unique cosmetic. > 2.) To be honest, there are a lot of things that can count. Like for example, using The Precursor Crafting Journey of Twilight. I enjoyed needing to so some fractals (low level, easy gate, but I needed to do that content), I also enjoyed needing to do the Jump Puzzles to find some item, Or Maudry was another finer example of things, where you have to complete world events unlock access to points that allow you to empower some item, to complete a collection. Putting some thought into it, there is a lot that can be done to make a Legendary Journey.. a journey, as opposed to just a content grind, which is the anti-thesis to legendary in my mind. > 3.) I don't care for the idea of Artificially Time Gating things. I believe that people who have more time to play should be able to complete things as fast as they want, and others can allow things to take as long as they want. I don't think Time Gates add much to the game, but, even if they are added, there should be a means to bypass them. IE: Ascended Crafting Mats, can only be made 1 per day, but you can buy them off the TP if you want to speed up the process. > 4.) Answered above > 5.) Answered above > 6.) I think each method should have it's own unique skin. Evony for Raid Armor, WvW should also have it's own Skin, sPvP should have their own Skin. etc.. Like the Back Items, Like the Weapons, each path should have it's own Skin, to denote how someone got it. Much in the same way each Dungeon had their own Skin. > > Hope that cleared things up for you. > > Also, No. I am not going to work for a year to placate some other players demands. Just never going to happen. If Anet thinks that is the future of this game and that they will be able to entice me to do that to get some kitten bauble, they are very wrong, all it will do is kitten me off, and pissed off players don't tend to spend money, they just hang around, play, and kitten about how much they hate the game. Well all I can say is the best of luck to you my friend. We will see what happens. Knowing arena net I think we all know how this is going to go down but hey who knows! Keep the dream alive if you really want it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > I have to ask a few questions to fully understand what you want. > > > 1.) Is it the skin you want or the functionality or both? > > > 2.) What do you feel is an appropriate open world task to warrant the armor? > > > 3.) What is your ideal time frame for completing it? > > > 4.) Are fractals included? > > > 5.) Are dungeons included? > > > 6.) Is it the Envoy raid skin you want or a unique skin? > > > Help me understand your vision for what a pve armor set would be other than a gold grind. > > > > 1.) Both. There is no good reason to make a Legendary Tier of gear without it's own unique cosmetic. > > 2.) To be honest, there are a lot of things that can count. Like for example, using The Precursor Crafting Journey of Twilight. I enjoyed needing to so some fractals (low level, easy gate, but I needed to do that content), I also enjoyed needing to do the Jump Puzzles to find some item, Or Maudry was another finer example of things, where you have to complete world events unlock access to points that allow you to empower some item, to complete a collection. Putting some thought into it, there is a lot that can be done to make a Legendary Journey.. a journey, as opposed to just a content grind, which is the anti-thesis to legendary in my mind. > > 3.) I don't care for the idea of Artificially Time Gating things. I believe that people who have more time to play should be able to complete things as fast as they want, and others can allow things to take as long as they want. I don't think Time Gates add much to the game, but, even if they are added, there should be a means to bypass them. IE: Ascended Crafting Mats, can only be made 1 per day, but you can buy them off the TP if you want to speed up the process. > > 4.) Answered above > > 5.) Answered above > > 6.) I think each method should have it's own unique skin. Evony for Raid Armor, WvW should also have it's own Skin, sPvP should have their own Skin. etc.. Like the Back Items, Like the Weapons, each path should have it's own Skin, to denote how someone got it. Much in the same way each Dungeon had their own Skin. > > > > Hope that cleared things up for you. > > > > Also, No. I am not going to work for a year to placate some other players demands. Just never going to happen. If Anet thinks that is the future of this game and that they will be able to entice me to do that to get some kitten bauble, they are very wrong, all it will do is kitten me off, and pissed off players don't tend to spend money, they just hang around, play, and kitten about how much they hate the game. > > Well all I can say is the best of luck to you my friend. We will see what happens. Knowing arena net I think we all know how this is going to go down but hey who knows! Keep the dream alive if you really want it! Well.. in the end.. as a player.. I never lose. Either I will at some point, get frustrated and quit, and find some other game to placate my desires or Anet will start to realize that keeping me and my kind around is profitable. MMO's are like Cars, we buy them, we love them, we want to keep forever, and in some cases, even after they have gotten too old, and worn out, we hang on to them for sentimental reasons. But like my current Car, GW2 was not my first, won't be my last, unless I die soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > Newsflash: it would take multiple months even if you kill every single boss each week. > > > > A year to get a full first set is not _too unresonable_ a pace to acquire it (especially the very first set with all the precursor collections and stuff). > > > > Legendary Armour is probably the most time-gated craftable in the game. > > Of course it takes multiple months, but multiple months isn't quite as much as a whole year, is it? For the first set, you need to do the collections and need 150 LI. That's 12 weeks aka 3 months if you exclude W5 to get the raid-locked components. A whole year for the first set is unreasonable. > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > If you dont raid you will NEVER get the Envoy armor so whether you choose to write a long forum post or raid is up to you. Seems like everyone is a victim of the community instead of their own hero. Go and raid if you want the armor. > > > > > > > > TRUE talk... I have to ask a few questions to fully understand what you want. > > > > > > > > 1.) Is it the skin you want or the functionality or both? > > > > > > > > 2.) What do you feel is an appropriate open world task to warrant the armor? > > > > > > > > 3.) What is your ideal time frame for completing it? > > > > > > > > 4.) Are fractals included? > > > > > > > > 5.) Are dungeons included? > > > > > > > > 6.) Is it the Envoy raid skin you want or a unique skin? > > > > > > > > > > > > Help me understand your vision for what a pve armor set would be other than a gold grind. > > > > > > > > I should also provide more clarity from my end as well. I would be happy to see the legendary functionality be available for open world pve players. I would still like it to be expensive. And I think it should have it's own skin that looks decent but not quite as epic as the raid or wvw legendary armor to reflect the difference in difficult to obtain. But if you guys want legendary stat swapping on ascended gear I am all for that being available! > > > > > > All I want is to raid > > > > > > * without being forced to already have a bazillion LI/KP, > > > * without being forced to play Chrono and/or Druid, but the class I actually enjoy to play, > > > * without having to be a NEET, since most statics/guilds only seem to raid during the week. > > > > > > ...and yeah, it easy to say that spending time on the forum keeps me from actually doing stuff, but: If I take a look into the LFG, most stuff requires several hundreds of LI plus another several KP. If I'd always organize my own runs (I hate the term "training-run", it devalues people, sounding like you first have to train stuff for ages because you're some kind of id**t), it would probably take me multiple months, if not at least a whole year to get my first set. I want reasonable progress though. > > > > I totally understand that and sympathize with you. It is a hard hard task to get over that hurdle. Sadly it's a community issue so the only thing that can be done is to persevere and push through. I had to do that as well and yea it was pain and felt unreasonable. But its doable if you keep pushing even if it takes a year. > > Yes, it is a community-issue, but it's also a game-design-issue. I already wrote a WoT about that in this thread. > > My one year being reasonable wasn’t based on optimal circumstances, of course. Just saying that unless you go super-focused on Raiding, it isn’t too unreasonable to casually get your first set within a year. Don’t forget also that the precursor collections contain timegated, RNG elements that can take many weeks if you’re unlucky. It is not just LI. Personally I just want berserk and got it, from 0 LI to a complete set, during my summer break from collage which was a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I rather want them to release Fractal legendary armor. :))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Arden.7480" said: > I rather want them to release Fractal legendary armor. :))) I could get behind a Fractal Legendary Armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win > > But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. raids are tuned to require significant block of time to learn the patterns through rote play, aka wiping over and over and over on as boss until your muscles catch up - that type of gameplay is niche and not what the average player in GW2 is looking for. There is space for both in the game, win win. its simple really : option 1: you only have a tuned raid mode that a small minority of the player base enjoys - this has legendary armor. option 2, you have different tuned versions of the same 10 man instance, they all have different legendary armor, the lower the difficulty the longer/more tokens you need. Option 1, a small majority get 10 man. Option 2: everyone gets 10 man, and the option to play both for some. no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Didn't they already say the will NOT be designing more legendary armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > > > > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win > > > > But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. > > raids are tuned to require significant block of time to learn the patterns through rote play, aka wiping over and over and over on as boss until your muscles catch up - that type of gameplay is niche and not what the average player in GW2 is looking for. There is space for both in the game, win win. Maybe I'm biased because GW2 is far from being my first MMO, but: No, just nope. Raids in GW2 - compared to other MMOs - aren't that hard and they don't require that much time to internalize mechanics. For everyone who wants to do the content, doing each encounter twice or thrice will probably be sufficient - at least it was that way for me concerning the encounters I already did. The only thing you really need to build up muscle memory is if you want to play absolutely perfect; you can be really far from being perfect though if it comes to clear raids though. Sure, maybe that kind of content still isn't for people that can only execute auto-attacks, but that really shouldn't be the majority of players. Else, main-rewards like legendary armor are already bound to the standard-raid-version while cm-titles are reserved for more sophisticated players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > > > > > > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win > > > > > > But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. > > > > raids are tuned to require significant block of time to learn the patterns through rote play, aka wiping over and over and over on as boss until your muscles catch up - that type of gameplay is niche and not what the average player in GW2 is looking for. There is space for both in the game, win win. > > Maybe I'm biased because GW2 is far from being my first MMO, but: No, just nope. Raids in GW2 - compared to other MMOs - aren't that hard and they don't require that much time to internalize mechanics. For everyone who wants to do the content, doing each encounter twice or thrice will probably be sufficient - at least it was that way for me concerning the encounters I already did. The only thing you really need to build up muscle memory is if you want to play absolutely perfect; you can be really far from being perfect though if it comes to clear raids though. Sure, maybe that kind of content still isn't for people that can only execute auto-attacks, but that really shouldn't be the majority of players. Else, main-rewards like legendary armor are already bound to the standard-raid-version while cm-titles are reserved for more sophisticated players. > > and yet look at the adverts for raids in GW2, the raiding community clearly reflect a tuned design. As i said win win for all with different modes. The rest is just people trying to protect their personal position at the cost of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win > > > > > > > > But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. > > > > > > raids are tuned to require significant block of time to learn the patterns through rote play, aka wiping over and over and over on as boss until your muscles catch up - that type of gameplay is niche and not what the average player in GW2 is looking for. There is space for both in the game, win win. > > > > Maybe I'm biased because GW2 is far from being my first MMO, but: No, just nope. Raids in GW2 - compared to other MMOs - aren't that hard and they don't require that much time to internalize mechanics. For everyone who wants to do the content, doing each encounter twice or thrice will probably be sufficient - at least it was that way for me concerning the encounters I already did. The only thing you really need to build up muscle memory is if you want to play absolutely perfect; you can be really far from being perfect though if it comes to clear raids though. Sure, maybe that kind of content still isn't for people that can only execute auto-attacks, but that really shouldn't be the majority of players. Else, main-rewards like legendary armor are already bound to the standard-raid-version while cm-titles are reserved for more sophisticated players. > > > > > > and yet look at the adverts for raids in GW2, the raiding community clearly reflect a tuned design. As i said win win for all with different modes. The rest is just people trying to protect their personal position at the cost of others. All the raiding-community - at least the majority of the LFG-section - reflects is the stupid mentality that you already need to have a job to get a job - nothing more. That's far from being a win-win-situation, especially when raiding in GW2 is just your typical instanced MMO-PvE-content. ...and it's not like there weren't (sad) reasons for the insane requirements in the LFG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win > > > > > > > > > > But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. > > > > > > > > raids are tuned to require significant block of time to learn the patterns through rote play, aka wiping over and over and over on as boss until your muscles catch up - that type of gameplay is niche and not what the average player in GW2 is looking for. There is space for both in the game, win win. > > > > > > Maybe I'm biased because GW2 is far from being my first MMO, but: No, just nope. Raids in GW2 - compared to other MMOs - aren't that hard and they don't require that much time to internalize mechanics. For everyone who wants to do the content, doing each encounter twice or thrice will probably be sufficient - at least it was that way for me concerning the encounters I already did. The only thing you really need to build up muscle memory is if you want to play absolutely perfect; you can be really far from being perfect though if it comes to clear raids though. Sure, maybe that kind of content still isn't for people that can only execute auto-attacks, but that really shouldn't be the majority of players. Else, main-rewards like legendary armor are already bound to the standard-raid-version while cm-titles are reserved for more sophisticated players. > > > > > > > > > > and yet look at the adverts for raids in GW2, the raiding community clearly reflect a tuned design. As i said win win for all with different modes. The rest is just people trying to protect their personal position at the cost of others. > > All the raiding-community - at least the majority of the LFG-section - reflects is the stupid mentality that you already need to have a job to get a job - nothing more. That's far from being a win-win-situation, especially when raiding in GW2 is just your typical instanced MMO-PvE-content. > > ...and it's not like there weren't (sad) reasons for the insane requirements in the LFG. The win win is having different difficulty modes to suit the majority if the player base. Clearly the majority don't like tuned 10 man instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win > > > > > > > > > > > > But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > raids are tuned to require significant block of time to learn the patterns through rote play, aka wiping over and over and over on as boss until your muscles catch up - that type of gameplay is niche and not what the average player in GW2 is looking for. There is space for both in the game, win win. > > > > > > > > Maybe I'm biased because GW2 is far from being my first MMO, but: No, just nope. Raids in GW2 - compared to other MMOs - aren't that hard and they don't require that much time to internalize mechanics. For everyone who wants to do the content, doing each encounter twice or thrice will probably be sufficient - at least it was that way for me concerning the encounters I already did. The only thing you really need to build up muscle memory is if you want to play absolutely perfect; you can be really far from being perfect though if it comes to clear raids though. Sure, maybe that kind of content still isn't for people that can only execute auto-attacks, but that really shouldn't be the majority of players. Else, main-rewards like legendary armor are already bound to the standard-raid-version while cm-titles are reserved for more sophisticated players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yet look at the adverts for raids in GW2, the raiding community clearly reflect a tuned design. As i said win win for all with different modes. The rest is just people trying to protect their personal position at the cost of others. > > > > All the raiding-community - at least the majority of the LFG-section - reflects is the stupid mentality that you already need to have a job to get a job - nothing more. That's far from being a win-win-situation, especially when raiding in GW2 is just your typical instanced MMO-PvE-content. > > > > ...and it's not like there weren't (sad) reasons for the insane requirements in the LFG. > > The win win is having different difficulty modes to suit the majority if the player base. Clearly the majority don't like tuned 10 man instances. Maybe, maybe the percentage of people regularly doing raids would be a lot higher if they were actually accessible though. ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > > > raids are tuned to require significant block of time to learn the patterns through rote play, aka wiping over and over and over on as boss until your muscles catch up - that type of gameplay is niche and not what the average player in GW2 is looking for. There is space for both in the game, win win. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I'm biased because GW2 is far from being my first MMO, but: No, just nope. Raids in GW2 - compared to other MMOs - aren't that hard and they don't require that much time to internalize mechanics. For everyone who wants to do the content, doing each encounter twice or thrice will probably be sufficient - at least it was that way for me concerning the encounters I already did. The only thing you really need to build up muscle memory is if you want to play absolutely perfect; you can be really far from being perfect though if it comes to clear raids though. Sure, maybe that kind of content still isn't for people that can only execute auto-attacks, but that really shouldn't be the majority of players. Else, main-rewards like legendary armor are already bound to the standard-raid-version while cm-titles are reserved for more sophisticated players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yet look at the adverts for raids in GW2, the raiding community clearly reflect a tuned design. As i said win win for all with different modes. The rest is just people trying to protect their personal position at the cost of others. > > > > > > All the raiding-community - at least the majority of the LFG-section - reflects is the stupid mentality that you already need to have a job to get a job - nothing more. That's far from being a win-win-situation, especially when raiding in GW2 is just your typical instanced MMO-PvE-content. > > > > > > ...and it's not like there weren't (sad) reasons for the insane requirements in the LFG. > > > > The win win is having different difficulty modes to suit the majority if the player base. Clearly the majority don't like tuned 10 man instances. > > Maybe, maybe the percentage of people regularly doing raids would be a lot higher if they were actually accessible though. ;p Exactly so, thats my point, existing raids are specialized for a niche, the rest have no interest in that style of game play. specialize for the rest in another instance is a no brainer, i.e if you tune a raid to suit both raiders and more casual players then noone wins? Why on earth would you want anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > Raiders should have raids, aka 10 man instances that are tightly tuned and require significant blocks of contiguous play to fine tune rote pattern play to get results - they should get unique legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the player would also love 10 man instances (il avoid the word raids since people get snowflakey) that is less tightly tuned so not requiring large blocks of contiguous play, and also offers different legendary armor - that takes a lot longer to gather since its less intensive than the raid above, Job done. the problem is selfish players that want to feel special and are protectionist. To those players, stop being selfish, and think of it as glass full, consider you can also play those 10 man instances for the different armor, and still have your raid legendary armor. win win > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But raids aren't that hard - it's just hard to get into them. You can't make 10-man-content that hard anyway. In every MMORPG, that kind of content is mostly designed so you can have a few liabilities. There's a reason why you can low-man stuff. Plus, raids also don't take that much time if you haven't adpoted the monday-clear-mentality and can split stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raids are tuned to require significant block of time to learn the patterns through rote play, aka wiping over and over and over on as boss until your muscles catch up - that type of gameplay is niche and not what the average player in GW2 is looking for. There is space for both in the game, win win. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I'm biased because GW2 is far from being my first MMO, but: No, just nope. Raids in GW2 - compared to other MMOs - aren't that hard and they don't require that much time to internalize mechanics. For everyone who wants to do the content, doing each encounter twice or thrice will probably be sufficient - at least it was that way for me concerning the encounters I already did. The only thing you really need to build up muscle memory is if you want to play absolutely perfect; you can be really far from being perfect though if it comes to clear raids though. Sure, maybe that kind of content still isn't for people that can only execute auto-attacks, but that really shouldn't be the majority of players. Else, main-rewards like legendary armor are already bound to the standard-raid-version while cm-titles are reserved for more sophisticated players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yet look at the adverts for raids in GW2, the raiding community clearly reflect a tuned design. As i said win win for all with different modes. The rest is just people trying to protect their personal position at the cost of others. > > > > > > > > All the raiding-community - at least the majority of the LFG-section - reflects is the stupid mentality that you already need to have a job to get a job - nothing more. That's far from being a win-win-situation, especially when raiding in GW2 is just your typical instanced MMO-PvE-content. > > > > > > > > ...and it's not like there weren't (sad) reasons for the insane requirements in the LFG. > > > > > > The win win is having different difficulty modes to suit the majority if the player base. Clearly the majority don't like tuned 10 man instances. > > > > Maybe, maybe the percentage of people regularly doing raids would be a lot higher if they were actually accessible though. ;p > > Exactly so, thats my point, existing raids are specialized for a niche, the rest have no interest in that style of game play. specialize for the rest in another instance is a no brainer, i.e if you tune a raid to suit both raiders and more casual players then noone wins? Why on earth would you want anything else Existing raids aren't hard. They shouldn't be for a niche! Maybe CMs should be, but not the normal version of raids. Basic rewards like legendary armor shouldn't be locked behind niche-content anyway! ANet fu ** ed up accessibility through unsophisticated game-design and the community ain't much better. ...and ffs, I am interested in doing fu ** ing raids just like a lot of other people are, the problem is though that fu ** ing raids simply aren't accessible. It's a thousand times harder to actually get into them than actually clearing them. I just want to do engaging content, not the kind of OW-content that is clearly has a sedating effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auri.1365 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: >... raids simply aren't accessible... They are easily accessible. Now even more than at the beginning as there are multiple training guilds/discord groups with experienced players teaching newbies. For example in the training guild where I am (RTI) there are regularly new people doing their first raids. They get the bosses explained and may kill several bosses in one evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Have some sense of prestige, people. If all armour and weapons can be gotten anywhere, by anyone, where's the value? The legendary armours are a kind of trophy. There's plenty of ascended gear that's practically free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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