Account suspension discussion [merged]

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Game is McDonald's, Cheat engine is car but what Anet didn't check for, based on their announcement, is driving part. In this case your analogy was like that:

> >

> > You are sitting drunk at McDonald's and police arrests you because you have a car so it's possible for you to drive it drunk today.

> Actually if you're sitting in a car drunk even if you're not driving and a police officer catches you, 9 times out of 10 you're going down for a DUI. You better have a verifiable alibi that can say "Yes, it was I who took them to McDonalds" and you kitten sure better not have the keys or you're SOL regardless.

>

> Don't go to McDonalds while you're drunk. Or else you better stick to your sober friend like glue and avoid anything that even remotely implicates you as a potential driver of a motor vehicle. Because you're still likely to catch crap regardless.

>

> And God help you if you're a stupid/crazy kind of drunk. You better just stay home or not drink.

 

The car (cheat engine) is parked. I am in McDonald's (game). Unless you double check there is nothing more but assumption that I drove it.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Tsukair.5962" said:

> i have been using a macro for dodge jump in SAB... is that allowed? Or agaisnt the rules? Like, i read the macro polity in gw2 forums, but i couldnt get an answer. Please can someone answer me for sure?

 

Dodge jump is 2 actions so you can't macro it to single key

[Cynn.1659]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> now what is the probability that a liar would be inclined to use cheating programs and be defensive :P teasing here ofc :)

 

don't know, but now i need to go and update my

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> aproved hack in form of arcdps.

 

after all i'm a cheater stealing dps of other people and invading their privacy

 

 

[Twoodi.5849]

> @"MrFayth.3546" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > I think Anet handled it fair. If you use cheat tools for one game you will likely also cheat in other games.

> >

> > If you failed an exam today, is it okay to automaticaly fail 2 others you have tomorrow?

> >

>

> If they failed you because you had the materials to cheat on the test, regardless if you used them or not, then yes.

 

The school would actually do an investigation into the person accused of cheating which ANET didn't do.

 

Cheat engine is not an automatic cheat a more comparable example would be like bringing your mobile phone into a maths test. Yes you could potentially open your calculator on your phone but they would require evidence to prove that you did do that and not that you innocently left it turned on in your bag.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Cynn.1659" said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > > > > if you have nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about. Too many people watching paranoid/conspiracy theory trash tv these days.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Do you leave your home door opened for strangers when going to work?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > umm k Do you walk the streets with a cowl over your head in case a public camera there to protect you records you?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Answer firts.

> > > > >

> > > > > Cynn.165 said it all really 4 posts above

> > > >

> > > > I blocked him so can't see his post. I asked you directly so plz now answer me directly. Unless you admit you're not interested in the topic.

> > >

> > > doh lol, ah wait your playing at trap him with clever logic, ok i will answer your oh so devious rhetorical question, yes i believe 99% of people would lock their doors.

> >

> > you can't block on the forum, lul

>

> now what is the probability that a liar would be inclined to use cheating programs and be defensive :P teasing here ofc :)

 

I didn't say I blocked him on forums though :)

 

This is exactly the case of jumping into conclusions. Another one is assuming that because of this, I must have an agenda about cheat programs. Well, happily I'm currently logged in. Feel free to check.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Cynn.1659" said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > now what is the probability that a liar would be inclined to use cheating programs and be defensive :P teasing here ofc :)

>

> don't know, but now i need to go and update my

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > aproved hack in form of arcdps.

>

> after all i'm a cheater stealing dps of other people and invading their privacy

>

>

 

one of these options is correct, thank you for admitting it :)

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"ffletcher.3468" said:

> 1. Relying on a five-year old overly broad and absurdly one-sided license Anet planted spyware on my personal computer which scanned and recorded all running processes on said computer and then transmitted that data to its own servers over the internet in a process which may or may not have been inherently secure. This was unprecedented to my knowledge. I was given no notice. I was not given any opportunity to opt out by deleting their software or by any other means. This spyware existed on my computer without my express permission for x days until it was apparently deleted.

>

> 2. The amount and type of data collected has not been described. The retention method and security of that data has not been described. The period of retention has not been described and may not be limited.

>

> This act was a breach of my privacy for reasons of apparently marginal commercial benefit to the company. The collection and retention of such data may put me at risk for a further breach of privacy if Anet security is compromised.

 

lol orr they just recorded running processes to see if you are running cheating programs alongside GW2. Go figure.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

It's amazing to see so many people not care or be in favor of a violation of our privacy.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"MrFayth.3546" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > I think Anet handled it fair. If you use cheat tools for one game you will likely also cheat in other games.

> >

> > If you failed an exam today, is it okay to automaticaly fail 2 others you have tomorrow?

> >

>

> If they failed you because you had the materials to cheat on the test, regardless if you used them or not, then yes.

 

And that right there is the best anology you can ask for in counter to your silly response Khel.. rekt!

 

Please sir I am innocent, I only had those answers written on my right hand cos I forgot to wash them off before the exam. I never used them honest. :)

[TexZero.7910]

This discussion in a nutshell

 

[https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/faust_20.png](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/faust_20.png "https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/faust_20.png")

 

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > if you have nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about. Too many people watching paranoid/conspiracy theory trash tv these days.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Do you leave your home door opened for strangers when going to work?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > umm k Do you walk the streets with a cowl over your head in case a public camera there to protect you records you?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Answer firts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Cynn.165 said it all really 4 posts above

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I blocked him so can't see his post. I asked you directly so plz now answer me directly. Unless you admit you're not interested in the topic.

> > > > >

> > > > > doh lol, ah wait your playing at trap him with clever logic, ok i will answer your oh so devious rhetorical question, yes i believe 99% of people would lock their doors.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you. In this analogy your home is your PC. Gw2 is your public area. So anet coming to your PC and taking stuff back to their HQ is not cool. They are allowed to monitor our data, like other game companies do. But they only send reporst when they hit a suspicious match.

> > >

> > > ooh analogy, i didnt think of that, dam trapped me! actually my home is my home, and my process list is just um a list of processes running on my pc, a list of strings, not personaly data, not personal metrics, a list of strings representing processes i'm running. Anet, if it protects my gaming experience you go for it.

> > >

> > > Do you think they are persisting that data in the long term, do you think they are paying for the hardware and staff to protect that data, do you reallllly?

> >

> > If the redditor is right and this data has been sent via unprotected channels there is a risk of your payment data being revealed to unautharized person, including your credit card numbers. The redittor can by lying but Anet never said it's not possible or explained what is happening with our data now so any scenario is possible.

>

> now your applying a strawman based on ifs and buts, a whatif Anet are somehow exposing your personal data (while collecting process names lol!). Maybe Anet is not a real company, maybe they are a front for a mysterious international money laundering and fraud organisation (they all wear black suits and dark glasses) , you just cannot tell, better to be paranoid just in case!

>

> ps how did you block cynn again?

 

I blocked him from my mind. I am a wizard.

 

Anet never said what data they gathered, how it was transfered and what are they going to do with it now. This means I have no reason to assume if the data is safe or not. The redditor explained the way of possible security risk, Anet never adressed that.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> The car (cheat engine) is parked. I am in McDonald's (game). Unless you double check there is nothing more but assumption that I drove it.

And if you're drunk and have some keys on you regardless of how you got there, you're going to get a DUI (6 month ban).

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > Game is McDonald's, Cheat engine is car but what Anet didn't check for, based on their announcement, is driving part. In this case your analogy was like that:

> > >

> > > You are sitting drunk at McDonald's and police arrests you because you have a car so it's possible for you to drive it drunk today.

> > Actually if you're sitting in a car drunk even if you're not driving and a police officer catches you, 9 times out of 10 you're going down for a DUI. You better have a verifiable alibi that can say "Yes, it was I who took them to McDonalds" and you kitten sure better not have the keys or you're SOL regardless.

> >

> > Don't go to McDonalds while you're drunk. Or else you better stick to your sober friend like glue and avoid anything that even remotely implicates you as a potential driver of a motor vehicle. Because you're still likely to catch crap regardless.

> >

> > And God help you if you're a stupid/crazy kind of drunk. You better just stay home or not drink.

>

> The car (cheat engine) is parked. I am in McDonald's (game). Unless you double check there is nothing more but assumption that I drove it.

 

Wrong.. it does not matter if your car is parked.. if your drunk with keys in a vehicle even if the engine isn't on your still liable for DUI.... it is not just about driving the car while drunk its about the potential to do it while drunk.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > The car (cheat engine) is parked. I am in McDonald's (game). Unless you double check there is nothing more but assumption that I drove it.

> And if you're drunk and have some keys on you regardless of how you got there, you're going to get a DUI (6 month ban).

 

But do I have the keys? Did you check? Did anet check if cheat engine is hooked into GW2?

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Scrivs.4501" said:

> > > @"eoz.1834" said:

> > > I'm thinking to sue Arenanet because I didn't accept or allow them to spy my files or collect my information

> >

> > You accepted their user agreement because you wanted to play their game, so yes you did. Good luck in court.

> End User License Agreements are technically illegal and unenforceable to begin with.

 

Survey says! *BZZT*

 

 

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> It's amazing to see so many people not care or be in favor of a violation of our privacy.

 

its because 'violiation of our privacy' is hyperbolic nonesence driven by modern fear mongers, I seriously blame the shite tv that pumps out of america - every 2nd program has a 'conspiracy' element to it and is illogical nonesense. Tracing process names while a process is running is not a big deal and has been around for nearly 2 decades.

 

boom heres 1 option out of a million:

 

AnsiString compare;

bool procRunning = false;

 

HANDLE hProcessSnap;

PROCESSENTRY32 pe32;

hProcessSnap = CreateToolhelp32Snapshot(TH32CS_SNAPPROCESS, 0);

 

if (hProcessSnap == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE) {

procRunning = false;

} else {

pe32.dwSize = sizeof(PROCESSENTRY32);

if (Process32First(hProcessSnap, &pe32)) { // Gets first running process

if (pe32.szExeFile == process) {

procRunning = true;

} else {

// loop through all running processes looking for process

while (Process32Next(hProcessSnap, &pe32)) {

// Set to an AnsiString instead of Char[] to make compare easier

compare = pe32.szExeFile;

if (compare == process) {

// if found process is running, set to true and break from loop

procRunning = true;

break;

}

}

}

// clean the snapshot object

CloseHandle(hProcessSnap);

}

}

 

return procRunning;

}

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > @"MrFayth.3546" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > I think Anet handled it fair. If you use cheat tools for one game you will likely also cheat in other games.

> > >

> > > If you failed an exam today, is it okay to automaticaly fail 2 others you have tomorrow?

> > >

> >

> > If they failed you because you had the materials to cheat on the test, regardless if you used them or not, then yes.

>

> The school would actually do an investigation into the person accused of cheating which ANET didn't do.

>

> Cheat engine is not an automatic cheat a more comparable example would be like bringing your mobile phone into a maths test. Yes you could potentially open your calculator on your phone but they would require evidence to prove that you did do that and not that you innocently left it turned on in your bag.

 

Dooh if your caught cheating in the exam you will be removed from it no questions.. the investigation comes after.. just like with this situation. Difference here is ANET would of already done some checking before banning and after on appeal...

If you bring your phone into the exam that is already breaking the ruleset no matter if you used it or not.. sound familiar.

You seem to think ANET just ban cos they can.. I beg to differ

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> But do I have the keys?

Did you? Are you banned?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > It's amazing to see so many people not care or be in favor of a violation of our privacy.

>

> its because 'violiation of our privacy' is hyperbolic nonesence driven by modern fear mongers, I seriously blame the kitten tv that pumps out of america - every 2nd program has a 'conspiracy' element to it and is illogical nonesense. Tracing process names while a process is running is not a big deal and has been around for nearly 2 decades.

>

> boom heres 1 option out of a million:

>

> AnsiString compare;

> bool procRunning = false;

>

> HANDLE hProcessSnap;

> PROCESSENTRY32 pe32;

> hProcessSnap = CreateToolhelp32Snapshot(TH32CS_SNAPPROCESS, 0);

>

> if (hProcessSnap == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE) {

> procRunning = false;

> } else {

> pe32.dwSize = sizeof(PROCESSENTRY32);

> if (Process32First(hProcessSnap, &pe32)) { // Gets first running process

> if (pe32.szExeFile == process) {

> procRunning = true;

> } else {

> // loop through all running processes looking for process

> while (Process32Next(hProcessSnap, &pe32)) {

> // Set to an AnsiString instead of Char[] to make compare easier

> compare = pe32.szExeFile;

> if (compare == process) {

> // if found process is running, set to true and break from loop

> procRunning = true;

> break;

> }

> }

> }

> // clean the snapshot object

> CloseHandle(hProcessSnap);

> }

> }

>

> return procRunning;

> }

 

Except anet did more than simple monitoring processes looking for a match. They gathered the data and transfered it to their servers without our knowledge. In this case it may be a case of security breach.

[Ashamir.9574]

Funny how now the fact that they banned people takes a backseat to the fact that they gathered user data they shouldn't have gathered.

 

In my country, this is against the law. It doesn't matter what I accepted in the ToS, if it's against the law it's the against the law. If someone would bother to take them to court for this they'd be fucked.

 

I seriously don't understand how people argue here that because it's in the ToS they are allowed to do that. I can sign any sheet that says that I am selling myself to person X to do whatever they want with me, and it will still never be legally binding, because ... guess what ... it's illegal. How hard is that to understand?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > But do I have the keys?

> Did you? Are you banned?

 

I'm not. Now answer my question.

[Ashen.2907]

A ToS that is not present at the time of purchase may not be binding everywhere. There are some states in the US in which such is the case and, perhaps portions of Europe as well.

 

Still, not really something worth pursuing in court IMO. Much more appropriate to use your power as a consumer. Dont spend money on the game and actively discourage others from joining, playing, or spending money as well if you truly feel that you, as a customer, have been treated inappropriately.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Belorn.2659" said:

> They could have a developer write a statement on the forum that information from users not suspected of any wrongdoing is now deleted. It would help a lot and reassure that paying customers that have done nothing wrong get treated with respect and understanding.

 

You have never talked to anyone who subscribes to a conspiracy theory I take it?

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > It's amazing to see so many people not care or be in favor of a violation of our privacy.

> >

> > its because 'violiation of our privacy' is hyperbolic nonesence driven by modern fear mongers, I seriously blame the kitten tv that pumps out of america - every 2nd program has a 'conspiracy' element to it and is illogical nonesense. Tracing process names while a process is running is not a big deal and has been around for nearly 2 decades.

> >

> > boom heres 1 option out of a million:

> >

> > AnsiString compare;

> > bool procRunning = false;

> >

> > HANDLE hProcessSnap;

> > PROCESSENTRY32 pe32;

> > hProcessSnap = CreateToolhelp32Snapshot(TH32CS_SNAPPROCESS, 0);

> >

> > if (hProcessSnap == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE) {

> > procRunning = false;

> > } else {

> > pe32.dwSize = sizeof(PROCESSENTRY32);

> > if (Process32First(hProcessSnap, &pe32)) { // Gets first running process

> > if (pe32.szExeFile == process) {

> > procRunning = true;

> > } else {

> > // loop through all running processes looking for process

> > while (Process32Next(hProcessSnap, &pe32)) {

> > // Set to an AnsiString instead of Char[] to make compare easier

> > compare = pe32.szExeFile;

> > if (compare == process) {

> > // if found process is running, set to true and break from loop

> > procRunning = true;

> > break;

> > }

> > }

> > }

> > // clean the snapshot object

> > CloseHandle(hProcessSnap);

> > }

> > }

> >

> > return procRunning;

> > }

>

> Except anet did more than simple monitoring processes looking for a match. They gathered the data and transfered it to their servers without our knowledge. In this case it may be a case of security breach.

 

People 'may' do a lot of things, that doesn't mean it happened. You can go through life looking for demons, or you can get on with life.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > It's amazing to see so many people not care or be in favor of a violation of our privacy.

> > >

> > > its because 'violiation of our privacy' is hyperbolic nonesence driven by modern fear mongers, I seriously blame the kitten tv that pumps out of america - every 2nd program has a 'conspiracy' element to it and is illogical nonesense. Tracing process names while a process is running is not a big deal and has been around for nearly 2 decades.

> > >

> > > boom heres 1 option out of a million:

> > >

> > > AnsiString compare;

> > > bool procRunning = false;

> > >

> > > HANDLE hProcessSnap;

> > > PROCESSENTRY32 pe32;

> > > hProcessSnap = CreateToolhelp32Snapshot(TH32CS_SNAPPROCESS, 0);

> > >

> > > if (hProcessSnap == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE) {

> > > procRunning = false;

> > > } else {

> > > pe32.dwSize = sizeof(PROCESSENTRY32);

> > > if (Process32First(hProcessSnap, &pe32)) { // Gets first running process

> > > if (pe32.szExeFile == process) {

> > > procRunning = true;

> > > } else {

> > > // loop through all running processes looking for process

> > > while (Process32Next(hProcessSnap, &pe32)) {

> > > // Set to an AnsiString instead of Char[] to make compare easier

> > > compare = pe32.szExeFile;

> > > if (compare == process) {

> > > // if found process is running, set to true and break from loop

> > > procRunning = true;

> > > break;

> > > }

> > > }

> > > }

> > > // clean the snapshot object

> > > CloseHandle(hProcessSnap);

> > > }

> > > }

> > >

> > > return procRunning;

> > > }

> >

> > Except anet did more than simple monitoring processes looking for a match. They gathered the data and transfered it to their servers without our knowledge. In this case it may be a case of security breach.

>

> People 'may' do a lot of things, that doesn't mean it happened. You can go through life looking for demons, or you can get on with life.

 

Just like cheating. Anet assumed they used cheat engine hooked into GW2, that doesn't mean it happened. Anet may treat our data carefully, it doesn't mean they do.