Account suspension discussion [merged]

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said:

> > > I want to know why IP's weren't banned. A certain leader for a guild that I will go unnamed (DUSK) is already back in game playing on his alternate account.

> >

> > You should read the entire thread instead of just posting.

> >

> > There are many ISPs in the world that throw a set of IPs to a set of users in specific region, in other words, IPs are never only used by one person in many cases. We called those dynamic IPs.

> >

> > PS: I welcome everyone who can't win an argument against me to report me, that's what commonly people do.

>

> Well.. most hackers/cheaters always had or have an alt account. The problem with the alt account situation is that the main account is usually the one they cheat on and therefore is the most painful to lose.

>

> Alt accounts for many that have them are simply for storage, money farming or... logging onto another wvw server and watching tags or supply/keep tapping missions.

>

> Think about it... losing your main with all your good armor/items really hurts.

>

> However... i see your point.. once a cheater always a cheater... and there is nothing stopping them from simply running the software again and scanning for hacks and doing a second ban wave.... which honestly isnt a bad idea.

>

> So... cheat at your own risk people... the ban hammer has been tied on a sting over your heads and may fall at any moment.....

 

Erm...Uh....I think you quote wrongly?

[FerrenoNL.7928]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

>

> yeah im guessing so.. There have always been ways to hack/cheat in MMOs... Personally i never have cheated.. since it kills all the fun in the game... but i can remember as far back as Asheron's Call there was a program people talked about called "Gear" ... and no.. it wasn't just for getting gear.. it was used to slow down the server so people could win at pvp by making those around you lag. It got so bad that turbine even added a monster in a dungeon with 1 hp called the lag monster... was hilarious.

>

> People saying they only used the cheat engine thing to get ore or wood etc.. IS STILL CHEATING... I have no idea how it worked or what bonus you got from mining with it on... but it was cheating

 

Whilst the name may imply it is only suited for cheating, it is not. Speaking as a software dev, it is just an expansive debugger which can serve many legitimate purposes. It is also one of perhaps 100 tools with some having slightly more 'legitimate' names, but all of those have been ignored.

 

Even then, running something alongside GW2 without actually using it, does not match up with the message 'suspended for modifying/tampering', as those actions (for many of the suspended accounts anyway) didn't take place.

[trueanimus.4085]

 

> > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> >

> > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

> >

> > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol

> >

>

> The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA.

>

> It is indeed kinda funny that you lol about this out of ignorance. It's not something everybody knows (or needs to know), I admit that, but you could have given GreyWolf the beneefit of doubt after his statement and look it up.

 

the EULA works just like anything else...

 

You can download itunes for example from the website, you can install it and even never use it... but the moment you run the itunes software you are agreeing to the EULA.. There is a popup that makes you answer YES or if you click NO it just cancels the install.

 

Same with the game.. when you install it, you have to click YES and agree to the terms before it will let you install... OR yes when you load in to play. I may be lost on which one it is.. but trust me.. there is a EULA you have to agree to before you log in.

 

There is always a catch. To play the game you have to connect to their servers and there is (as i have seen it) an eula somewhere in the process you have to agree to before you log in to play.... saying that there isnt is the real ignorance. Once you click yes.. you agree not to sue them etc... so any counter suits for breech of privacy are all null and void because you agreed to the terms.

 

 

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> >

> > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

> >

> > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol

> >

>

>

> Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin?

 

When there is a patch... you agree by loading the launcher to add the patch correct? It has to make changes to your HD to do so.. correct? By loading the game, you have already given them access to your HD.

 

They cant legally snoop your pc for your information... bank accounts, cc numbers etc.. but.. as a part of the software (as with most software these days) they can gather information reliant to the game and making sure it runs correctly on your system, i am sure there is a section in the EULA about agreeing to a listing of processes running on your pc for diagnostic use or something pretty close.

 

Most software EULA's has this and a section that by running said program, you agree not to sue them in case of damages etc.. blah blah.. you know the drill.

 

I didn't mean they could wipe your HD etc for cheating.. but they can snoop simple things such as processes lists if it pertains to diagnostics.

 

 

Oh and btw.... i think that is covered under montoring

 

7. PRIVACY AND DATA PROTECTION

It is Your responsibility to read, understand and accept the Privacy Policy in effect in connection with Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that ArenaNet may make changes to the Privacy Policy at any time. You also acknowledge that each and every time You click “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You did read, understand and accept the most recent version of the Privacy Policy in effect at that time.

ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game, including but not limited to publicly commenting upon or publishing the foregoing. ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no obligation to provide ArenaNet any information, feedback or communications related to the Game. In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to any information, feedback or communications You provide under this Section 7(b).

****ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.**

**

[trueanimus.4085]

ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.

 

Incase you miss it

 

[trueanimus.4085]

Loose translation.. they did nothing illegal and nothing you hadnt already consented to by running the software.. They were monitoing the game for third party software... which is allowed under the eula =)

 

Have a nice day

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> People saying they only used the cheat engine thing to get ore or wood etc.. IS STILL CHEATING... I have no idea how it worked or what bonus you got from mining with it on... but it was cheating

 

Yes, the people using it to get ore or wood are still guilty. The ones who were using Cheat Engine for things unrelated to GW2 are not. It’s a general purpose tool, and like any sufficiently powerful tools, it can be used for good or bad purposes.

 

An example of a similar tool is an extremely well known exploit framework - basically a large collection of exploits that malware could use to control a computer. While that seems like a very bad thing at first glance (making it easy for people writing malware, right?) it is actually more valuable to people who use it on their own software/systems so that they can make them more secure for themselves or customers running their software. The situation before (circa 1999) was that software developers without deep pockets or government backing had no free/easy to access way of testing their software against known vulnerabilities.

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"FerrenoNL.7928" said:

> > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

> >

> > yeah im guessing so.. There have always been ways to hack/cheat in MMOs... Personally i never have cheated.. since it kills all the fun in the game... but i can remember as far back as Asheron's Call there was a program people talked about called "Gear" ... and no.. it wasn't just for getting gear.. it was used to slow down the server so people could win at pvp by making those around you lag. It got so bad that turbine even added a monster in a dungeon with 1 hp called the lag monster... was hilarious.

> >

> > People saying they only used the cheat engine thing to get ore or wood etc.. IS STILL CHEATING... I have no idea how it worked or what bonus you got from mining with it on... but it was cheating

>

> Whilst the name may imply it is only suited for cheating, it is not. Speaking as a software dev, it is just an expansive debugger which can serve many legitimate purposes. It is also one of perhaps 100 tools with some having slightly more 'legitimate' names, but all of those have been ignored.

>

> Even then, running something alongside GW2 without actually using it, does not match up with the message 'suspended for modifying/tampering', as those actions (for many of the suspended accounts anyway) didn't take place.

 

Side note.. they said that the people suspended were running the program over a period of several weeks along side the game... meaning they could have been cheating ... or not. The point is.. if you dont want to get caught for cheating, then you shouldn't be running a cheat program at the same time the GW2 exe was running.

 

Its like seeing a cake on a shelf... all the icing is perfect... and when someone walks in, they notice some of the icing is missing.... you are the only one in the room and there is icing on your fingers... Maybe you didnt eat it.. but you were there while the cake was fine.. then the icing is missing and you are the only one that could have taken it.

 

bad example.. maybe.. but you get the point

 

[trueanimus.4085]

Part D also reads as follows.

 

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

CHANGING ANY PORTION OF THE SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME;

SEEKING RECOURSE AGAINST YOU BY WAY OF ANY PROCEEDING ARENANET DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES; AND/OR

DETERMINING THAT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND TERMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT UNDER SECTION 3(b). ARENANET HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO PROVIDE YOU WITH NOTICE BEFORE SUCH TERMINATION.

 

Storage devices... ram etc.. but is limited to monitoring for game diagnostics.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > No, use your due-diligence and not have it running at the same time as this game. Again . . . common sense.

>

> Wow. Do you ever leave your web browser running in the background while playing GW2?

 

With a cheat program or something similar while playing this game? Nope. Can't say I ever have or ever will. And no, we're not defending ANet. We're saying don't ask ANet to use more common sense or be more responsible with their actions than you did or you are.

 

Sorry, but in this case, the buck stops with you.

 

> @"Sithis.3564" said:

> This is hilarious.. cheaters blaming ANet. I don't even care if anyone used it only for single-player "experiance" ( lol ). If I had a program on my computer and it had a potential to be used to hack this game, I would be crazy vigilant to make sure it's not "online".

 

See? This man has common sense and used due-diligence. :)

 

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > People saying they only used the cheat engine thing to get ore or wood etc.. IS STILL CHEATING... I have no idea how it worked or what bonus you got from mining with it on... but it was cheating

>

> Yes, the people using it to get ore or wood are still guilty. The ones who were using Cheat Engine for things unrelated to GW2 are not. It’s a general purpose tool, and like any sufficiently powerful tools, it can be used for good or bad purposes.

>

> An example of a similar tool is an extremely well known exploit framework - basically a large collection of exploits that malware could use to control a computer. While that seems like a very bad thing at first glance (making it easy for people writing malware, right?) it is actually more valuable to people who use it on their own software/systems so that they can make them more secure for themselves or customers running their software. The situation before (circa 1999) was that software developers without deep pockets or government backing had no free/easy to access way of testing their software against known vulnerabilities.

 

if you had it running while you ran GW2 then that is your fault... and you may want to check the eula of other games so you dont get banned for running a cheat program with those games... however.. it still remains that under the EULA it is a bannable offence under privacy section 7 subsection c and d.

 

 

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > @"FerrenoNL.7928" said:

> > > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

> > >

> > > yeah im guessing so.. There have always been ways to hack/cheat in MMOs... Personally i never have cheated.. since it kills all the fun in the game... but i can remember as far back as Asheron's Call there was a program people talked about called "Gear" ... and no.. it wasn't just for getting gear.. it was used to slow down the server so people could win at pvp by making those around you lag. It got so bad that turbine even added a monster in a dungeon with 1 hp called the lag monster... was hilarious.

> > >

> > > People saying they only used the cheat engine thing to get ore or wood etc.. IS STILL CHEATING... I have no idea how it worked or what bonus you got from mining with it on... but it was cheating

> >

> > Whilst the name may imply it is only suited for cheating, it is not. Speaking as a software dev, it is just an expansive debugger which can serve many legitimate purposes. It is also one of perhaps 100 tools with some having slightly more 'legitimate' names, but all of those have been ignored.

> >

> > Even then, running something alongside GW2 without actually using it, does not match up with the message 'suspended for modifying/tampering', as those actions (for many of the suspended accounts anyway) didn't take place.

>

> Side note.. they said that the people suspended were running the program over a period of several weeks along side the game... meaning they could have been cheating ... or not. The point is.. if you dont want to get caught for cheating, then you shouldn't be running a cheat program at the same time the GW2 exe was running.

>

> Its like seeing a cake on a shelf... all the icing is perfect... and when someone walks in, they notice some of the icing is missing.... you are the only one in the room and there is icing on your fingers... Maybe you didnt eat it.. but you were there while the cake was fine.. then the icing is missing and you are the only one that could have taken it.

>

> bad example.. maybe.. but you get the point

>

See what he said. Despite the name, Cheat Engine is not a cheat program, even though it can be used as such. Having it running for hours or days while working on a software project is not uncommon, so using “is it running or not” as the only check is poor form by ANet. They should have had more evidence, like checking if GW2 was open in CE, or checking for signs of cheating in whatever logs they have of player actions.

 

Anyway, what you think doesn’t necessarily matter on this, since I’ve heard that some of the CE suspensions were reverted, which means ANet recognizes that CE running alone (without any other evidence) is not sufficient proof of cheating in GW2.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

>

> > > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > >

> > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

> > >

> > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol

> > >

> >

> > The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA.

> >

> > It is indeed kinda funny that you lol about this out of ignorance. It's not something everybody knows (or needs to know), I admit that, but you could have given GreyWolf the beneefit of doubt after his statement and look it up.

>

> the EULA works just like anything else...

>

> You can download itunes for example from the website, you can install it and even never use it... but the moment you run the itunes software you are agreeing to the EULA.. There is a popup that makes you answer YES or if you click NO it just cancels the install.

>

> Same with the game.. when you install it, you have to click YES and agree to the terms before it will let you install... OR yes when you load in to play. I may be lost on which one it is.. but trust me.. there is a EULA you have to agree to before you log in.

>

> There is always a catch. To play the game you have to connect to their servers and there is (as i have seen it) an eula somewhere in the process you have to agree to before you log in to play.... saying that there isnt is the real ignorance. Once you click yes.. you agree not to sue them etc... so any counter suits for breech of privacy are all null and void because you agreed to the terms.

>

>

 

You still refuse to look it up. While looking it up for you in English, I stumbled over this nugget:

 

http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/online-privacy-is-under-fire-in-germany/

 

That's from 2011, it should be known in the game industry to not fuck with Germans when it comes to privacy and data protection.

 

I cannot find an English page explaining the EULA - Germany relationship, but in short, the EULA is treated in Germany like AGB (Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen), and the AGB are only binding if they were shown the buyer and when he agreed to them before the purchase (and in many cases, AGB have things in them that are against the law, which of course overrules them). This is usually not the case with software. You buy the software license and then you are asked to accept the EULA before the download or installation, therefore, you are not bound to it in Germany.

 

http://www.damm-legal.de/09-lizenzvertrag-eula

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > >

> > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

> > >

> > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol

> > >

> >

> >

> > Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin?

>

> When there is a patch... you agree by loading the launcher to add the patch correct? It has to make changes to your HD to do so.. correct? By loading the game, you have already given them access to your HD.

>

> They cant legally snoop your pc for your information... bank accounts, cc numbers etc.. but.. as a part of the software (as with most software these days) they can gather information reliant to the game and making sure it runs correctly on your system, i am sure there is a section in the EULA about agreeing to a listing of processes running on your pc for diagnostic use or something pretty close.

>

> Most software EULA's has this and a section that by running said program, you agree not to sue them in case of damages etc.. blah blah.. you know the drill.

>

> I didn't mean they could wipe your HD etc for cheating.. but they can snoop simple things such as processes lists if it pertains to diagnostics.

 

Well, you said "everything" and that was going on a bit not just by you, and I was wondering where that went. And them updating the game is a necessary thing to even be able to play the game. They may install updates. it doesn't mean they can install anything.

 

>

>

> Oh and btw.... i think that is covered under montoring

>

> 7. PRIVACY AND DATA PROTECTION

> It is Your responsibility to read, understand and accept the Privacy Policy in effect in connection with Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that ArenaNet may make changes to the Privacy Policy at any time. You also acknowledge that each and every time You click “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You did read, understand and accept the most recent version of the Privacy Policy in effect at that time.

> ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to review any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**. ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**, including but not limited to publicly commenting upon or publishing the foregoing. ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. **You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no obligation to provide ArenaNet any information, feedback or communications **related to the Game.** In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to any information, feedback or communications You provide under this Section 7(b).

>ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. ArenaNet may **in its reasonable discretion**, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities **related to the Game**.You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.**

> **

 

Emphasis mine.

 

When it comes to the game itself. I agree you have no privacy because you are playing in Arenanet's house. They call the shots and can ban you as they see fit. As a result, they can definitely check my computer to see if I am running a hacking program. But past that, they're in my house.

[Safari Tank.6238]

There are SO MANY OTHER GOOD GAMES out there. Don't get hung up on this one if you are unhappy. Legion is probably the best xpac since WotLK. TERA has a new patch coming tomorrow that is going to bring a lot of the community back (and was just recently released to consoles). FFXIV has an amazing story and visuals that even surpass those of GW2. If you are unhappy (or just bored), then move onto something else. GW2 isn't going anywhere, you can come back whenever you want (or not). If Anet has betrayed your trust, or you are unhappy/bored/whatever, then just move on. THESE ARE GAMES PEOPLE...GO HAVE FUN!

[Tinnel.4369]

Not going to read all of this, but have a question about a general trend I see.

 

Is there evidence ANet banned for simply having the software and not interacting it with gw2 beyond the hearsay of the banned?

 

It keeps getting said that this is what they did when their statement specified tampering with the game.

 

Evidence of the contrary?

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > > People saying they only used the cheat engine thing to get ore or wood etc.. IS STILL CHEATING... I have no idea how it worked or what bonus you got from mining with it on... but it was cheating

> >

> > Yes, the people using it to get ore or wood are still guilty. The ones who were using Cheat Engine for things unrelated to GW2 are not. It’s a general purpose tool, and like any sufficiently powerful tools, it can be used for good or bad purposes.

> >

> > An example of a similar tool is an extremely well known exploit framework - basically a large collection of exploits that malware could use to control a computer. While that seems like a very bad thing at first glance (making it easy for people writing malware, right?) it is actually more valuable to people who use it on their own software/systems so that they can make them more secure for themselves or customers running their software. The situation before (circa 1999) was that software developers without deep pockets or government backing had no free/easy to access way of testing their software against known vulnerabilities.

>

> if you had it running while you ran GW2 then that is your fault... and you may want to check the eula of other games so you dont get banned for running a cheat program with those games... however.. it still remains that under the EULA it is a bannable offence under privacy section 7 subsection c and d.

>

>

 

Basically everything is a bannable offence under that EULA, so that’s not saying much. I find it funny that people who have never used tools similar to Cheat Engine for software development are trying to comment on how they should be used — at least someone at ANet understands what people here aren’t understanding about development tools, since there was at least one report that they listened to an appeal by a player that had CE running for other purposes.

 

Honestly, I’d say the safest thing to do is run GW2 in a virtual machine to limit its access to the rest of the system. Protects against them snooping on running processes, eliminating privacy concerns too.

[Ewon.5903]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> their statement specified tampering with the game.

 

Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time".

 

 

[ShiningSquirrel.3751]

> @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > No, use your due-diligence and not have it running at the same time as this game. Again . . . common sense.

>

> Wow. Do you ever leave your web browser running in the background while playing GW2? Same idea, except with debuggers, there isn't necessarily a "restore all tabs" option to pick up right where you left off. I personally have been working on developing an emulator for an old-school game engine (think like ScummVM) -- when figuring out how it works, I'll often leave the original game open and running in a debugger for days, or even weeks at a time, because it doesn't impact overall computer performance much, and being able to just unminimize a window to pick up where I left off is much easier than starting a session from scratch again (which could involve going through several tasks on the original engine to get back to where I was at before). Remember, no "restore all tabs" so the process of getting back to where I left off could take 5-10 minutes, which is a pretty big barrier to resuming work when compared to a second or two that it takes to unminimize something that is already running.

>

> Seriously, stop trying to defend ANet on this; the code they would have needed to add the additional check is minimal. If they have no prior experience with the API calls, maybe a few hours to research and implement the added check at most.

 

That is your problem, you do not use a "production" machine for debugging. If you must, you use the debugger in a sandbox. You can't blame Anet for your poor computer practices.

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"Ewon.5903" said:

> > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > their statement specified tampering with the game.

>

> Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time".

>

>

 

Quoted from the message the actual banned were given.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> Not going to read all of this, but have a question about a general trend I see.

>

> Is there evidence ANet banned for simply having the software and not interacting it with gw2 beyond the hearsay of the banned?

>

> It keeps getting said that this is what they did when their statement specified tampering with the game.

>

> Evidence of the contrary?

 

Yea, there was a report of a player using CE to translate a Visual Novel to English whose ban was overturned — implication is that they didn’t look for evidence of interaction (the code they added didn’t report anything about interaction either, just “is it running”).

[FerrenoNL.7928]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > @"FerrenoNL.7928" said:

> > > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

> > >

> > > yeah im guessing so.. There have always been ways to hack/cheat in MMOs... Personally i never have cheated.. since it kills all the fun in the game... but i can remember as far back as Asheron's Call there was a program people talked about called "Gear" ... and no.. it wasn't just for getting gear.. it was used to slow down the server so people could win at pvp by making those around you lag. It got so bad that turbine even added a monster in a dungeon with 1 hp called the lag monster... was hilarious.

> > >

> > > People saying they only used the cheat engine thing to get ore or wood etc.. IS STILL CHEATING... I have no idea how it worked or what bonus you got from mining with it on... but it was cheating

> >

> > Whilst the name may imply it is only suited for cheating, it is not. Speaking as a software dev, it is just an expansive debugger which can serve many legitimate purposes. It is also one of perhaps 100 tools with some having slightly more 'legitimate' names, but all of those have been ignored.

> >

> > Even then, running something alongside GW2 without actually using it, does not match up with the message 'suspended for modifying/tampering', as those actions (for many of the suspended accounts anyway) didn't take place.

>

> Side note.. they said that the people suspended were running the program over a period of several weeks along side the game... meaning they could have been cheating ... or not. The point is.. if you dont want to get caught for cheating, then you shouldn't be running a cheat program at the same time the GW2 exe was running.

>

> Its like seeing a cake on a shelf... all the icing is perfect... and when someone walks in, they notice some of the icing is missing.... you are the only one in the room and there is icing on your fingers... Maybe you didnt eat it.. but you were there while the cake was fine.. then the icing is missing and you are the only one that could have taken it.

>

> bad example.. maybe.. but you get the point

>

 

I really like your example; but I'm going to throw another up. You're a mechanic. You've got a wrench. It fixes cars. But you could just as well hammer people's heads in with it. Whether you do or not is a moral choice. From a legal and morally-right perspective, the punishment should be given after you hammer someone's head in, not whilst using it for other things. Such as fixing cars. :-)

[Ewon.5903]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > @"Ewon.5903" said:

> > > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > > their statement specified tampering with the game.

> >

> > Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time".

> >

> >

>

> Quoted from the message the actual banned were given.

 

So, not their statement, but rather from the support GM?

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said:

> > @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > No, use your due-diligence and not have it running at the same time as this game. Again . . . common sense.

> >

> > Wow. Do you ever leave your web browser running in the background while playing GW2? Same idea, except with debuggers, there isn't necessarily a "restore all tabs" option to pick up right where you left off. I personally have been working on developing an emulator for an old-school game engine (think like ScummVM) -- when figuring out how it works, I'll often leave the original game open and running in a debugger for days, or even weeks at a time, because it doesn't impact overall computer performance much, and being able to just unminimize a window to pick up where I left off is much easier than starting a session from scratch again (which could involve going through several tasks on the original engine to get back to where I was at before). Remember, no "restore all tabs" so the process of getting back to where I left off could take 5-10 minutes, which is a pretty big barrier to resuming work when compared to a second or two that it takes to unminimize something that is already running.

> >

> > Seriously, stop trying to defend ANet on this; the code they would have needed to add the additional check is minimal. If they have no prior experience with the API calls, maybe a few hours to research and implement the added check at most.

>

> That is your problem, you do not use a "production" machine for debugging. If you must, you use the debugger in a sandbox. You can't blame Anet for your poor computer practices.

 

(Removed, sorry. Don’t want to offend if you are just someone who is really into running every process in its own container) Would you have Visual Studio running on the same system as GW2? There’s no reason to sandbox a debugger on a development machine if you’re debugging benign software.

 

- agreed though, if you’re running questionable software or something that could damage the system, would want to sandbox it; CE may fall into the questionable category depending on how much you trust the developers, though it’s open source so one could audit the code if they’re so inclined

[Healix.5819]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> We're saying don't ask ANet to use more common sense or be more responsible with their actions

 

They missed so many obvious cheats in this wave, like Synapse, LGS and CUE.