Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> So... with this famous reddit post getting updated, and that everyone assumed was true without double-checking, I HOPE we can now put the "legal" and "huge privacy breach" argument to rest?

> Or is it still about company-bashing?

 

I'll be outta here with the update of the reddit post. My only concern was the alleged privacy violation. I still wished Anet would have communicated. I wanted to know what exactly was sent to their servers and what will happen with that data. I think I got a sufficient answer and can log into the game again. If the data was filtered and only hits were sent to the server, that's fine for me, that's what I understand when I agree to being "monitored".

 

As for "assumed was true without double-checking". You do the same thing with the new information dude. Or did you double-check if the latest update in the reddit thread tells the truth? We tried to double-check with Anet, but Anet refused to comment.

 

My apologies towards the people at Anet for judging them without having enough information to do so. I should have been more patient.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > So... with this famous reddit post getting updated, and that everyone assumed was true without double-checking, I HOPE we can now put the "legal" and "huge privacy breach" argument to rest?

> > Or is it still about company-bashing?

>

> I'll be outta here with the update of the reddit post. My only concern was the alleged privacy violation. I still wished Anet would have communicated. I wanted to know what exactly was sent to their servers and what will happen with that data. I think I got a sufficient answer and can log into the game again. If the data was filtered and only hits were sent to the server, that's fine for me, that's what I understand when I agree to being "monitored".

>

> As for "assumed was true without double-checking". You do the same thing with the new information dude. Or did you double-check if the latest update in the reddit thread tells the truth? We tried to double-check with Anet, but Anet refused to comment.

>

> My apologies towards the people at Anet for judging them without having enough information to do so. I should have been more patient.

 

I do the opposite: I don't assume malicious intent.

Which is a big problem in modern society. Conspiracy theorists everywhere.

[Voltekka.2375]

At first, people didnt cheat. They were banned wrongfully.

Then, reddit poster finds out how ANET banned people, posts stuff about privacy violation. People, naturally, believe him, he is an expert in the field, after all. ANET publishes list of 3rd party programs that were used for cheating.

Then, people did use cheat pograms, but NOT on GW2, but they had them running for multiple hours, while playing GW2. Also, they used macros - accidentally- besides music.

 

People go haywire about privacy, bash "whiteknights" and anet left and right, ToS be damned, everything be damned, they feel violated. Lawsuits are being prepared.

Same reddit poster announced that some filtering was applied, by ANET, about the info they got. Some people now ask if said reddit user (WHO THEY BELIEVED IN HIS FIRST POST) is telling the truth!

 

 

You know what all of the above does? It defames a company. Libel like this, makes a company get a bad name, people dont spend money on said company. Psychology of the masses wont make people look for truth of whatever. They will remember that "ANET violated privacy and banned people wrongly". That company loses earnings. The game gets less and less stuff. The game dies. All that because you cheated, you got caught, and you want revenge for... Being banned for 6 months (not even a permaban).

 

I hope you feel better about trying to ruin the experience for the vast majority of other players. Sincerely, on behalf of users who dont use cheatprograms, thanks.

[mrstealth.6701]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> You know what all of the above does? It defames a company. Libel like this, makes a company get a bad name, people dont spend money on said company. Psychology of the masses wont make people look for truth of whatever. They will remember that "ANET violated privacy and banned people wrongly". That company loses earnings. The game gets less and less stuff. The game dies. All that because you cheated, you got caught, and you want revenge for... Being banned for 6 months (not even a permaban).

>

> I hope you feel better about trying to ruin the experience for the vast majority of other players. Sincerely, on behalf of users who dont use cheatprograms, thanks.

 

It's not defamation if the claims are true. Even though it seems that the privacy violation isn't as severe as initially thought, Anet out of nowhere dropped a snooping feature into their game that reports back running programs to them. We now *think* it was only reporting back positive hits on the set of programs they were looking for, but I've not seen a definitive answer on that.

 

And by their own admission, Anet was banning people for having a multi-purpose program open at the same time as GW2. They didn't care whether or not they had any reason to believe the program was actually being used to cheat in GW2. It's logical to assume that a program made specifically for cheating in GW2 was being used to cheat in GW2, but even in those cases Anet was using a detection method that is known to potentially give false positives. When the program is one commonly used for cheating in tons of other games, you need to be very certain that it was actually being used in *your game* before you drop the banhammer on someone for having it running. Anet has proven many times over the years that they detect and log enough information to determine when illicit activity is happening. They *chose* not to do that this time, instead relying fully on an automated tool with obvious faults, that was outright designed to ban anyone that looks like they *might* be cheating.

 

I'm sure a large number of the people caught in this ban wave were actually cheating, but that does not change the fact that the system Anet used was poorly thought out and highly likely to ban innocent players. A problem compounded by their stance of not considering appeals, and apparent lack of bothering with actual evidence beyond their faulty detection tool.

 

If Anet wants to stop players from running Cheat Engine along side GW2, they should have left the detection system in as a local-only scanner(no data being sent back to Anet) that prevents running the game while Cheat Engine is running. What they chose to do instead was just careless and amateurish. I expect better from them, because I know they are capable of it.

[usnedward.9023]

A few things from this post to keep in mind:

• As far as I know I am the only one to come here and publicly admit and apologize for the cheat system I used. Though I thought it unfair to merge my post with this one…. Who am I to complain?

• Not that I am trying to be a hero but more for the support of ANET and kudos they went out of their comfort zone and justifiably ban the perps. Though my intention was never to gain the upper hand against my opponents is was to level the playing field against those who were cheating. Should have waited but eh… coulda…. shoulda…woulda

• I made my plea in private and the ban will stick and I suppose rightfully so.

• The ToS is CLEAR that at any time they can view your processes and determine the state of the game and it’s use. It is you the player who failed to read it, read it and didn’t care or didn’t think you would get caught.

• I do not think any damage to ANET will come of this. Maybe some of those 1500 plus accounts dumped some cash on the game but knowing ANET has taken a stand many new comers may join and those who left may come back. GW2 will survive.

• Bad press? See dot 4, if anything I think it is good press for the gaming industry and bad press for those who make money on the cheat systems and just cheaters in general.

• The next couple of months are crucial. If the backlash is minimal, which I believe it will be, look for more companies do the same to their game. Maybe ANET makes some cash sharing their “fix”.

• It’s just a game. If you wish to continue, wait your ban out and come back and play fair.

• It’s just a game. Pleading your case will do nothing here.

• It’s just a game. Buy another round and start over. It doesn’t take much time to map this game out.

• It’s just a game. Tear of pain for you is tears of joy for those who do it right.

• The arguments here are mute and doubtful any legal action can be or will be taken against ANET. Good luck with that if you try.

• There is an EXP event this weekend and it is my belief it is to commend those who did not cheat. I have never seen an event of this type and it wrecked my guts when I found out and cannot partake. Poo!

• Good luck to all those adventurers that continue on for their quest for in game domination. Let it be known that I doubt they got EVERY cheater but you can play calmly knowing ANET is watching and learning!

 

Peace

 

[Vai Satriani.2736]

> @"usnedward.9023" said:

> A few things from this post to keep in mind:

> • As far as I know I am the only one to come here and publicly admit and apologize for the cheat system I used. Though I thought it unfair to merge my post with this one…. Who am I to complain?

> • Not that I am trying to be a hero but more for the support of ANET and kudos they went out of their comfort zone and justifiably ban the perps. Though my intention was never to gain the upper hand against my opponents is was to level the playing field against those who were cheating. Should have waited but eh… coulda…. shoulda…woulda

> • I made my plea in private and the ban will stick and I suppose rightfully so.

> • The ToS is CLEAR that at any time they can view your processes and determine the state of the game and it’s use. It is you the player who failed to read it, read it and didn’t care or didn’t think you would get caught.

> • I do not think any damage to ANET will come of this. Maybe some of those 1500 plus accounts dumped some cash on the game but knowing ANET has taken a stand many new comers may join and those who left may come back. GW2 will survive.

> • Bad press? See dot 4, if anything I think it is good press for the gaming industry and bad press for those who make money on the cheat systems and just cheaters in general.

> • The next couple of months are crucial. If the backlash is minimal, which I believe it will be, look for more companies do the same to their game. Maybe ANET makes some cash sharing their “fix”.

> • It’s just a game. If you wish to continue, wait your ban out and come back and play fair.

> • It’s just a game. Pleading your case will do nothing here.

> • It’s just a game. Buy another round and start over. It doesn’t take much time to map this game out.

> • It’s just a game. Tear of pain for you is tears of joy for those who do it right.

> • The arguments here are mute and doubtful any legal action can be or will be taken against ANET. Good luck with that if you try.

> • There is an EXP event this weekend and it is my belief it is to commend those who did not cheat. I have never seen an event of this type and it wrecked my guts when I found out and cannot partake. Poo!

> • Good luck to all those adventurers that continue on for their quest for in game domination. Let it be known that I doubt they got EVERY cheater but you can play calmly knowing ANET is watching and learning!

>

> Peace

>

 

this. and good luck to you on your life bro.

 

and if you want to play again in the future the game will still be here :)

[panekomo.7146]

Fun Fact. Everyone I know who got banned (most for some programs running in the background, using Nabster for camera control, the Health overlay and gearcheck on guildmates) got at LEAST one secondary account. I got 17 other accounts. At least 3 of them got a few Level 80 characters with all the equip, 11 of them got both expansions, 3 only HoT. So. If someone who actually did use the evil hekkermän software to fly around and sh*t or whatever got banned they will just go on a second account adjust their software and keep doing it. As a matter of fact I saw some mesmer from Vabbi running around at super sonic speed through walls on this mondays afternoon. Don't tell me that wasn't hacks.

While Anet may have caught a few "real" hackers and bots. Most of them probably just second account bots anyways. My guess is that they also caught tons of players who never misused any programs or had programs for developing or work in the background.

I wrote a ticket as soon as the ban hit explainign everything and giving details. Anet did not give a flying sh*t, no answer, jsut a quick look at it. A second ticket from me. Same. Now I wrote a third, maybe someone will bother.

 

This all is very sad. Especially knowing one of the most toxic people on earth is behind all of this.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"GreyWolf.8670" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

>

> > The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA.

> >

>

> No. You must agree to the EULA when you create your account **before** can you buy the game from ArenaNet **or** play it.

 

Not sure this is correct...though tbh I never purchased mine digitally, but I would guess it works the same as when buying the box set originally.. you purchase, you install and create account at which point you then accept the EULA and play... if you don't accept you don't get login access.

However there is I believe a little disclaimer that states WARNING Acceptance of certain agreements is required, but of course you don't know what until you install it :)

[Susy.7529]

> @"GreyWolf.8670" said:

> > @"Susy.7529" said:

> > > @"GreyWolf.8670" said:

> > > > @"Susy.7529" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > Well, to all the players that are taking a stand against this, and plan to leave the game, for whatever reasons. I hope you and the cheaters you are standing with, find a nice game that you can all play together, without anyone imposing any rules or regulations on you and how you want to play the game.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Don't all games have game rules?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You would think.. but after reading this topic, I have seen that some players get upset when those rules get enforced, so, to all of them, both the cheaters and the enables, I hope they find a wonderful game to play together.. that is not this one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Enablers". It's troubling that you would insinuate that. By your own logic, at the other end of the spectrum, you could be called an enabler of unethical privacy intrusions. Sound fair? No? I didn't think so.

> > > > >

> > > > > You signed a contract saying you allow them to do this... explain to me how it's unethical?

> > > >

> > > > If you sign a contract you do that for the overall benefits it offers (aka playing the game you like in this case). It doesn't always mean that you agree on every single points of that contract, it just means you believe that benefits are greater than disadvantages (aka the points you consider unfair/unethical).

> > >

> > > Then you disagreed and shouldn't have created your account. You don't get to pick with parts of a contract you want to apply to you.

> >

> > False, it's subjective, if someone disagrees with some points he may still create an account if he believe he can tolerate those points.

>

> Sure, you can physically click on the Accept button but you're still bound by it if you do so. It's not subjective, it's a legal document. If you don't agree to the contents then don't sign it. There's no option to negotiate the terms.

 

If I believe I can bear the points I don't agree with, I don't see why I shouldn't sign it.

Of course I won't have any rights to blame anet for using those points anytime.

[mrstealth.6701]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"GreyWolf.8670" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> >

> > > The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA.

> > >

> >

> > No. You must agree to the EULA when you create your account **before** can you buy the game from ArenaNet **or** play it.

>

> Not sure this is correct...though tbh I never purchased mine digitally, but I would guess it works the same as when buying the box set originally.. you purchase, you install and create account at which point you then accept the EULA and play... if you don't accept you don't get login access.

> However there is I believe a little disclaimer that states WARNING Acceptance of certain agreements is required, but of course you don't know what until you install it :)

 

That is what's on the back of my collector's edition box.

 

"Acceptance of certain agreements is required."

 

Of course, you don't see those agreements until after you've opened the package and made returning it impossible. I suppose they could say that you are able to dig around a website and find them, but I'm not sure how much of a legal leg that has to stand on. EULAs in general tend to not have much to back them up legally, and companies rely more on the fact that 99.9% of their customers don't have the time or resources to hash it out in a courtroom. That is, if there isn't already some even more legally vague arbitration clause the company hopes will prevent that from ever happening.

 

Not intended as a jab at Anet specifically, just observation on software EULAs in general. Anet's agreements are kinda mild compared to some crap others try to cram in there.

 

TLDR: EULAs are largely unenforceable garbage, and companies know it. They just bank on you thinking it's not worth fighting.

[Lanhelin.3480]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> At the end of the day, the purpose of the software does not matter, it all depends on how the users use it.

 

But not in reality. Sure you can dare and try to argue with the security guys at the airport checkpoint, that you always have and always will only use the magifying glass of the swiss knife in your carry-on bag, but because there also is the knife blade on it, no matter whether you use it or not it's classified as knife and in case you insist, you will become banned from boarding.

 

[mrstealth.6701]

> @"usnedward.9023" said:

> • The ToS is CLEAR that at any time they can view your processes and determine the state of the game and it’s use. It is you the player who failed to read it, read it and didn’t care or didn’t think you would get caught.

>

 

That section of the ToS is rather vague. I'm not really sure if monitoring "CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME" is supposed to be referring to specific hardware used to interact with the game, like a keyboard or mouse, or hardware as in the computer in general. It's also further obfuscated with a generic "including, but not limited to" clause, which kinda makes it a free-for-all to mean whatever they want it to mean on any given day.

 

The parts about what isn't allowed and can get you banned are a bit more specific, and not really in Anet's favor in this case. It seems to limit them to banning you for using software that "relates to game" or "interacts with the game", but there are also a few more "including, but not limited to" clauses sprinkled in there. According to their own statement about this ban wave, players were banned for merely have a process active in memory, with no regard to whether it actually relates or interacts with the game. That really does seem to overstep the specified bits of their agreements, venturing into what might or might not be covered by "not limited to" clauses or the general "we can ban you for whatever we like" that I think is in there somewhere.

 

In any case, it's bad form to just summarily ban for having a process there that could maybe perhaps be used with GW2, without actually bothering to see if it really is. Especially when said process has numerous other uses and is not specifically related to GW2.

[Rankomonaut.4708]

Having the guts to suspend people for running programs while playing gw2 (why did we? Because we can? Why do we buy that lots of ram and cpu? Yea, so we can multitask.) but no guts at all if it comes to probably face the ugly truth of false accusations, that's lame imo.

The minimal update from Ms Gayle are almost to be taken ironic, although thx for the info about CE.

If I had known that programs running with gw2 would be a problem I would have closed my other activities. (Just check my steam account and check the hours on my idle game).

Big Problem is that Anet decided to ignore all pleas. And yes, I know, everybody says they did nothing and that's the problem: The only "person" that could verify that is ArenaNet themselves and here's the fun part: They don't want or can't. So they show us it's better to kitten some innocents alongside as long as ppl get scared enough. *clap clap*

 

PS: I think the worst is that all the gold will be gone when the 10th of Oct arrives. My wife got a mail with her gold and she was a false positve, I guess we "black sheep" (wether guilty or not) won't get it back. So I hope you guys spent your gold and didn't safe it like me. 2001 or something gold.. *sob* Here goes my hoarding..

[Yseron.8613]

So, anyone made it out of the [akone checkpoint](

) ? Any false positive or ban reversal ? By the way, dont take the coming weekend world bonuses as sarcasm, I like to think it had been planed for a very long time

[Notjes.7182]

How are communication tools like TS or discord allowed? They clearly provide an advantage.

[usnedward.9023]

> @"Rankomonaut.4708" said:

 

> Big Problem is that Anet decided to ignore all pleas. And yes, I know, everybody says they did nothing and that's the problem: The only "person" that could verify that is ArenaNet themselves and here's the fun part: They don't want or can't. So they show us it's better to kitten some innocents alongside as long as ppl get scared enough. *clap clap*

 

That's odd. I plead my case before ANET and they told me exactly what I did though I already knew. Thought it was worth a shot to get ban lifted and they are being very stern on that. So the pleas do not go unanswered it's just the answer you get you do not want. I asked earlier in this post for people to open ticket and post ANET's response. Funny how I was the only one that did that. Because all these "I didn't do it" actually DID do it.

 

> @"mrstealth.6701" said:

> > @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > • The ToS is CLEAR that at any time they can view your processes and determine the state of the game and it’s use. It is you the player who failed to read it, read it and didn’t care or didn’t think you would get caught.

> >

>

> That section of the ToS is rather vague. I'm not really sure if monitoring "CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME" is supposed to be referring to specific hardware used to interact with the game, like a keyboard or mouse, or hardware as in the computer in general. It's also further obfuscated with a generic "including, but not limited to" clause, which kinda makes it a free-for-all to mean whatever they want it to mean on any given day.

 

To be fair you should post the whole section and not just something unfairly short. Most importantly the part about memory and other devices. Do not ignore it to present your weak case. When you read the entirety of it YOU are at fault. Make sure to read the BOLD parts ;)

 

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, **INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY**, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

 

**8 © Use, or provide others with, any software related to the Game, including any automation software (a.k.a. “bot”) or software designed to change or modify operation of the Game;**

8(e) Use, or provide others with, any service related to the Game, including but not limited to:

(i) any service that interacts with the Game; or

**(ii) any service that that would change characteristics related to an Account or Character ID, such as increasing the level of a character (a.k.a. power-leveling);**

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Lanhelin.3480" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > At the end of the day, the purpose of the software does not matter, it all depends on how the users use it.

>

> But not in reality. Sure you can dare and try to argue with the security guys at the airport checkpoint, that you always have and always will only use the magifying glass of the swiss knife in your carry-on bag, but because there also is the knife blade on it, no matter whether you use it or not it's classified as knife and in case you insist, you will become banned from boarding.

>

 

You know, this is the internet world, computer, not real life where one need to eliminate every single possible threat but still have an alternative. In computer world, every single debugger is a threat aka able to cheat, there is no alternative.

[Susy.7529]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > @"Lanhelin.3480" said:

> > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > At the end of the day, the purpose of the software does not matter, it all depends on how the users use it.

> >

> > But not in reality. Sure you can dare and try to argue with the security guys at the airport checkpoint, that you always have and always will only use the magifying glass of the swiss knife in your carry-on bag, but because there also is the knife blade on it, no matter whether you use it or not it's classified as knife and in case you insist, you will become banned from boarding.

> >

>

> You know, this is the internet world, computer, not real life where one need to eliminate every single possible threat but still have an alternative. In computer world, every single debugger is a threat aka able to cheat, there is no alternative.

 

Then you don't use any debugger while running an online videogame. Simple.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Susy.7529" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > @"Lanhelin.3480" said:

> > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > At the end of the day, the purpose of the software does not matter, it all depends on how the users use it.

> > >

> > > But not in reality. Sure you can dare and try to argue with the security guys at the airport checkpoint, that you always have and always will only use the magifying glass of the swiss knife in your carry-on bag, but because there also is the knife blade on it, no matter whether you use it or not it's classified as knife and in case you insist, you will become banned from boarding.

> > >

> >

> > You know, this is the internet world, computer, not real life where one need to eliminate every single possible threat but still have an alternative. In computer world, every single debugger is a threat aka able to cheat, there is no alternative.

>

> Then you don't use any debugger while running an online videogame. Simple.

 

Well, he quote it out of context like many others people in the thread, like quoting things out of context. Try reading the original post. I wrote this, if anet does not ban all debugger tool, then anet is double standard, unprofessional.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

People wont stop arguin some think its unfair to ban with proof some is ok for first if you dont read eula its your own fault and how you percive it dont matter for agree still means agree to their terms of service its like a contract if it makes it easier.

Second they only read process log they can also only see you got cheat (debugget)software and its hard to belive anyone leaving it open idly for using it too cheat ore bot in another game what is the point having other game up without playing it.

And third arenanet is not some goverment trying to controll the world ore harass people, they dont sell info too advertisers for they then would have ads on their computers but some.thinks so anyway why bother trying convince people who already decided their opinion

Anet i am sorry for what many thinks

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Lanhelin.3480" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > At the end of the day, the purpose of the software does not matter, it all depends on how the users use it.

>

> But not in reality. Sure you can dare and try to argue with the security guys at the airport checkpoint, that you always have and always will only use the magifying glass of the swiss knife in your carry-on bag, but because there also is the knife blade on it, no matter whether you use it or not it's classified as knife and in case you insist, you will become banned from boarding.

>

 

That analogy is more like a reason why ANet should just stop GW2 from running if it detects a program that could have non-GW2 uses open (TSA checkpoint), with users who then force their way past the checkpoint getting banned. Nice analogy — I guess ArcDPS and TacO would be plastic knives.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Yes, it's time to lock this thread. Going in circles now. Again, thank you Gaile for listing which programs weren't acceptable.

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Notjes.7182" said:

> How are communication tools like TS or discord allowed? They clearly provide an advantage.

 

Do voice chat programs modify the game's code, or allow users to modify the game's code? If so, I must have missed that aspect of said programs.

[mrstealth.6701]

> @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > > @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > > • The ToS is CLEAR that at any time they can view your processes and determine the state of the game and it’s use. It is you the player who failed to read it, read it and didn’t care or didn’t think you would get caught.

> > >

> >

> > That section of the ToS is rather vague. I'm not really sure if monitoring "CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME" is supposed to be referring to specific hardware used to interact with the game, like a keyboard or mouse, or hardware as in the computer in general. It's also further obfuscated with a generic "including, but not limited to" clause, which kinda makes it a free-for-all to mean whatever they want it to mean on any given day.

>

> To be fair you should post the whole section and not just something unfairly short. Most importantly the part about memory and other devices. Do not ignore it to present your weak case. When you read the entirety of it YOU are at fault. Make sure to read the BOLD parts ;)

>

> ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, **INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY**, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME . SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

>

> **8 © Use, or provide others with, any software related to the Game, including any automation software (a.k.a. “bot”) or software designed to change or modify operation of the Game;**

> 8(e) Use, or provide others with, any service related to the Game, including but not limited to:

> (i) any service that interacts with the Game; or

> **(ii) any service that that would change characteristics related to an Account or Character ID, such as increasing the level of a character (a.k.a. power-leveling);**

 

The key part there is really a smaller section of what I originally posted.

"RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME"

 

I probably should have tossed in "random access memory" and "storage devices" for good measure, but they don't add any more clarity as to whether that means the system as a whole or only hardware we are using directly to interact with the game, and the process related to that hardware. And those processes would, of course, exist in RAM and on a storage device.

 

Pretty much everything else in the whole agreement relevant to this situation seems to be targeted at other software that actually interacts with or impacts the game in some way. Then Anet goes and bans people for just having a process running, taking no consideration as to whether or not it's actually being used for any of their stated prohibited activity, or whether it's even related to or interacting with the game at all.

[Rankomonaut.4708]

> @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > @"Rankomonaut.4708" said:

>

> > Big Problem is that Anet decided to ignore all pleas. And yes, I know, everybody says they did nothing and that's the problem: The only "person" that could verify that is ArenaNet themselves and here's the fun part: They don't want or can't. So they show us it's better to kitten some innocents alongside as long as ppl get scared enough. *clap clap*

>

> That's odd. I plead my case before ANET and they told me exactly what I did though I already knew. Thought it was worth a shot to get ban lifted and they are being very stern on that. So the pleas do not go unanswered it's just the answer you get you do not want. I asked earlier in this post for people to open ticket and post ANET's response. Funny how I was the only one that did that. Because all these "I didn't do it" actually DID do it.

>

So far I didn't get an answer to my 2 mails. So, what's the point? Good for you that you got one though.

€dit: skipped the quoted a bit

also:

sent a new support ticket