We need an official position from ANET about ARCDPS and TACO

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

I do hope I accidentally press one of the macros buttons on my keyboard and get banned on the other day.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Greener.6204" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Greener.6204" said:

> > > > Blaming Anet for the tizzy that people are creating for themselves makes no sense.

> > > >

> > > > 1583 accounts got suspended. More than 1583 people use taco. It can be inferred that simply using taco won't get you banned. It's that easy.

> > >

> > > Unless in some cases TACO triggered false positive result for anet.

> >

> > Or it could be a brand of GPU's which triggered a false positive; or perhaps the type of mouse that someone used; or perhaps what someone ate for breakfast. People can trick themselves into believing anything without proof. Blaming Anet for one's self-delusion is silly. There's no reason to think it's taco, but if you want to keep believing it, go ahead. Just make sure to track what you eat for breakfast, too.

>

> There's also no reason to believe all bans are 100% justified. There were cases like this in the past. Your sarcasm is cute however I don't believe I deserve such treatment from you. Something could trigger false positive on Anet's side, no matter what it was it needs to be investigated.

 

Exactly, I ran into this with another game company before. They did IP bans. Unluckily for me I seemed to be sharing my ISP (which used dynamic IP allocation) with someone they did not like as the company banned me twice and then responded both times with pretty much 'oops, our bad, you had nothing to do with it'.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"chrisjfinlay.5614" said:

> As far as I remember it's explicitely against their terms to bind two actions to one button. So it may seem trivial to say "it's only a dodge jump" but it's still against the rules.

>

> A rule is either enforced, or it isn't. If you introduce grey area, who's to say what's ok and what isn't?

 

Maybe I am confusing terms but you are talking about doing a dodge and a jump practically at the same time, right? Given 1 button-1 action, which they have stated is allowed, why would you even need to set up a mouse action? You can hit the v key and the space bar almost at the same time.

 

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> I like the suggestion one person made in the massive ban topic: Anet could maintain a 3rd party software 'whitelist' with not just the name of programs but the specific version that was checked and approved and where applicable which plugins were checked.

 

Other game companies have done it. In exchange for following certain rules they get listed in a directory. Programs that refuse to follow the rules do not get in the directory and people stop using them unless they are up to no good.

 

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

This issue with "allowing" third party program is a standard situation encountered in all type of businesses (not only in games, I experienced that a lot in my work that concerns a completely different product):

=> There is a rule. This rule limits what the user/customer can do, defining the responsibilities of each parties involved toward breaking this rule. Then the user/customer wants to extend the limit for whatever reason (good or bad is not the point) and ask the OEM if it is acceptable to do it, although it is crossing over the limit (more or less is not the point). And here we have our standard situation:

- If the OEM say officially: "Yes, it is acceptable", responsibility in case of troubles is with the OEM because the user can turn back to OEM and says: "you told me officially it is acceptable". The consequences can turn out pretty bad for the OEM.

- If the OEM says officially: "It is at your own risk". They stick to their rule. The responsibility is with the user in case of troubles . They are protected. This is logic and this is what 95% of OEMs do.

 

This standard situation is even worse when a third party is involved, because the OEM can in no way takes over responsibility for a third party, out of the frame of a pre-agreed/contractual cooperation, mostly because they have no way to control what the third party is doing.

 

Since for now, for what I know, Anet has no cooperation with Arcdps and TACO, the use of those third party programs - no matter what those two do, or not, to the game - can in no way be released officially without putting Anet at risk. So, the only valid position Anet can have is "at user's risk". If in the future Anet would start an official cooperation with the third parties, then situation can change, but it does not seem to be the case for now.

 

Please note that this description is neutral and does not reflect in any way my way of thinking about the issue Arcdps/TACO. Whatever I think has no impact of what I explain above.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > @"chrisjfinlay.5614" said:

> > As far as I remember it's explicitely against their terms to bind two actions to one button. So it may seem trivial to say "it's only a dodge jump" but it's still against the rules.

> >

> > A rule is either enforced, or it isn't. If you introduce grey area, who's to say what's ok and what isn't?

>

> Maybe I am confusing terms but you are talking about doing a dodge and a jump practically at the same time, right? Given 1 button-1 action, which they have stated is allowed, why would you even need to set up a mouse action? You can hit the v key and the space bar almost at the same time.

 

Maybe you can consistently press space and V at almost the same time. I've never been able to get the hang of it. I've spent a lot of time trying and managed maybe 3 times, and not in a row. In the end I just gave up on dodge jumping and found other ways to do the things where people assured me it was the only way (usually it's a matter of getting as close to the edge as you can, which is slightly _over_ the visible edge and then jumping at the last second, for some reason I find that much easier).

 

But I can easily see how other people who are being told they have to use dodge jumping to complete things like SAB and cannot seem to get the timing right for whatever reason might be tempted to set up a macro to do it.

 

> @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> I do hope I accidentally press one of the macros buttons on my keyboard and get banned on the other day.

 

Are your macro keys set up with actual macros? If you press one of them while playing GW2 does it carry out multiple actions? (For example fire off two or more attacks, or open the chat box and post a string of text?) If so then yes there could be a problem. If they're just normal keys or not even bound to anything then you're fine.

 

They're called macro keys because they're designed to be used for macros, but until you program them they don't do anything.

[Orpheal.8263]

best solution of all this mess is and stays that anet should work finally on own real solutions in form of implementating stuff that ARCDPS, and Taco Does in form of an own Build Template System and own upgrades of the Menu/UI System with the functions that TACO provides, so that players all over the world will never NEED at all to use any external third party programs for thigns and features, that should be part of the game officially integrated in the best interest of ANet to make the best game, they possibly can.

 

Thats my position on this topic. People will always make usage of official unsupported third party programms only if there is in the game a LACK in something.

The very moment when ANet fixes the lack of that something via adding own official implemented and supported features is the moment, where those players have then no reasons anymore to use third party programs ans eventually risk this way their accounts getting banned.

 

That players rather use third party programs to get their needs solved, should be a warn signal for Anet to do somethign against the situation by adding those features that these programs give the player officialyl into the game ASAP. players sholdn#t be forced to use third party programs and to permanently go out of the game to internet sites/wikis ect. just to get the informations they need which such third party programs7sites provide, when you coudl get all those infos and features also just ingame, without havign to leave the game for that or to rely yourself on unsupported programs, which could become anytime in combination everntually with other programs too risky to use and lead in your ban maybe, which is why ANet can only say that using these thigns will be always be at your own risk in the end ...

 

So best slution for everyone is just to play GW2 with any third party programs and get together, make yourself together strong for the features you want from those programs to get added to the game. show together consistently the demand for these thigns, so that Anet can't ignore these thigns anymore and rest on the laurels of some indie programmers doing the actually work for them...

And if they actually do that, then they should at least officially work with those people together to speed up the official implementation of these feratures into the game.

 

This goes with other good and helpful stuff as well liek for examplee with Shaders, like this Sweet FX stuff, stuff like what this program does should become possible officially ingame too, without us having to need to use such kind of third party programs, just to be able to influence better the graphics of the game ...

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > @"chrisjfinlay.5614" said:

> > > As far as I remember it's explicitely against their terms to bind two actions to one button. So it may seem trivial to say "it's only a dodge jump" but it's still against the rules.

> > >

> > > A rule is either enforced, or it isn't. If you introduce grey area, who's to say what's ok and what isn't?

> >

> > Maybe I am confusing terms but you are talking about doing a dodge and a jump practically at the same time, right? Given 1 button-1 action, which they have stated is allowed, why would you even need to set up a mouse action? You can hit the v key and the space bar almost at the same time.

>

> Maybe you can consistently press space and V at almost the same time. I've never been able to get the hang of it. I've spent a lot of time trying and managed maybe 3 times, and not in a row. In the end I just gave up on dodge jumping and found other ways to do the things where people assured me it was the only way (usually it's a matter of getting as close to the edge as you can, which is slightly _over_ the visible edge and then jumping at the last second, for some reason I find that much easier).

>

> But I can easily see how other people who are being told they have to use dodge jumping to complete things like SAB and cannot seem to get the timing right for whatever reason might be tempted to set up a macro to do it.

 

I have never tried it but just fat finger the 'v' or the bit between it and the space bar. This is why I groan when my only movement option is the mouse .... I have been moving with a keyboard since the 70s/80s so have the muscle memory and am used to stuff like that. Granted it is impossible for any human to be as fast as a computer macro to send two keystrokes but typically games are not set up to require that speed.

 

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Orpheal.8263" said:

> best solution of all this mess is and stays that anet should work finally on own real solutions in form of implementating stuff that ARCDPS, and Taco Does in form of an own Build Template System and own upgrades of the Menu/UI System with the functions that TACO provides, so that players all over the world will never NEED at all to use any external third party programs for thigns and features, that should be part of the game officially integrated in the best interest of ANet to make the best game, they possibly can.

>

> Thats my position on this topic. People will always make usage of official unsupported third party programms only if there is in the game a LACK in something.

> The very moment when ANet fixes the lack of that something via adding own official implemented and supported features is the moment, where those players have then no reasons anymore to use third party programs ans eventually risk this way their accounts getting banned.

>

> That players rather use third party programs to get their needs solved, should be a warn signal for Anet to do somethign against the situation by adding those features that these programs give the player officialyl into the game ASAP. players sholdn#t be forced to use third party programs and to permanently go out of the game to internet sites/wikis ect. just to get the informations they need which such third party programs7sites provide, when you coudl get all those infos and features also just ingame, without havign to leave the game for that or to rely yourself on unsupported programs, which could become anytime in combination everntually with other programs too risky to use and lead in your ban maybe, which is why ANet can only say that using these thigns will be always be at your own risk in the end ...

>

> So best slution for everyone is just to play GW2 with any third party programs and get together, make yourself together strong for the features you want from those programs to get added to the game. show together consistently the demand for these thigns, so that Anet can't ignore these thigns anymore and rest on the laurels of some indie programmers doing the actually work for them...

> And if they actually do that, then they should at least officially work with those people together to speed up the official implementation of these feratures into the game.

>

> This goes with other good and helpful stuff as well liek for examplee with Shaders, like this Sweet FX stuff, stuff like what this program does should become possible officially ingame too, without us having to need to use such kind of third party programs, just to be able to influence better the graphics of the game ...

 

whats the mess? if you actually read the post from Anet you would see an explicit list of cheat orientated programs that were targeted, not arc dps etc (which many of us cant stand because of the behavior it generates)

[Doodleplex.3752]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> I have never tried it but just fat finger the 'v' or the bit between it and the space bar. This is why I groan when my only movement option is the mouse .... I have been moving with a keyboard since the 70s/80s so have the muscle memory and am used to stuff like that. Granted it is impossible for any human to be as fast as a computer macro to send two keystrokes but typically games are not set up to require that speed.

>

Switch your dodge from V to R and make your autorun some other key, that way your fingers don't have to move around, all in the default position, then switch it back when SAB is done with. I had the WORST trouble with dodge jumping until somebody recommended simply switching those two keys and it's made a HUGE difference.

 

Also in theme of the thread: I installed TACO at the start of SAB to finish SAB Trib mode for World 1(2 next year) because my memory is horrific. I've not been banned, so I can safely say that TACO isn't getting people banned. I will say that I plan to uninstall it after I'm done with the Storm Wizard weapon skin collection next year, I find TACO too much of a cluttered mess and kind of an eyesore outside of SAB for my liking.

 

 

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Doodleplex.3752" said:

> > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > I have never tried it but just fat finger the 'v' or the bit between it and the space bar. This is why I groan when my only movement option is the mouse .... I have been moving with a keyboard since the 70s/80s so have the muscle memory and am used to stuff like that. Granted it is impossible for any human to be as fast as a computer macro to send two keystrokes but typically games are not set up to require that speed.

> >

> Switch your dodge from V to R and make your autorun some other key, that way your fingers don't have to move around, all in the default position, then switch it back when SAB is done with. I had the WORST trouble with dodge jumping until somebody recommended simply switching those two keys and it's made a HUGE difference.

>

> Also in theme of the thread: I installed TACO at the start of SAB to finish SAB Trib mode for World 1(2 next year) because my memory is horrific. I've not been banned, so I can safely say that TACO isn't getting people banned. I will say that I plan to uninstall it after I'm done with the Storm Wizard weapon skin collection next year, I find TACO too much of a cluttered mess and kind of an eyesore outside of SAB for my liking.

>

>

 

Thanks, but what I meant was if you want to hit 'v' and space at practically the same time your keyboard is already configured by default to make it trivial. I do not do SAB though so maybe I am missing something?

[Doodleplex.3752]

The ones who seem more comfortable with dodge jumping I've found are usually people who do a lot of PvP: the person who told me to switch the two keys is primarily a PvP player. Not sure if that was your question though, just wanted to pass a long a tip if you were having trouble.

[Theros.1390]

Players who use tiers dont only need a clear position about TacO and Arc, I think they need an official and clear list on what's allowed, and what's forbidden. This border line situation is just not possible any longer.

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"Orpheal.8263" said:

> If this has been done, then it can be seen just simply as getting yourself an "advantage" over others, so LITTLE it may be in perception for you, it stays fact that it will be getting an advantage over others, which don't use these key binds and play the game normally, so in that case the ban has been done rightfully then, as you breached with this violation the rules of the game, so sad it is to say...

>

> Anet removed the ability to perform double jumps some time ago, so doing anything with third party programs and key binds that forces the game to successfully do again jump dodges should be a no brainer in fact, that people will get banned for this action , cause Anet will have had their reasons for taking the ability of dodge jumping after such long time out of the game ...

 

Since I found out about Arcdps I stopped teaming. I hate that people can see my damage in ways that allow them to mimic my build. I spend a lot of time in theory, so why should someone be able to steal what I create and use it against me? I do not use dulfy, metabattle, or any other generic platform that recommends a consensus generic, that is great start for beginners. The more advanced players tune to their style, but anyone can see whats happening there. They are also able to go strait to a build without experimenting. This probably costs anet money that would otherwise be used in experimenting. I'd be a little upset about it if I were an anet ceo trying to maximize profits. The excuse I would use to rid of them is, leaderboards should reflect experience, not the ability to swipe someone else's.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"Orpheal.8263" said:

> > If this has been done, then it can be seen just simply as getting yourself an "advantage" over others, so LITTLE it may be in perception for you, it stays fact that it will be getting an advantage over others, which don't use these key binds and play the game normally, so in that case the ban has been done rightfully then, as you breached with this violation the rules of the game, so sad it is to say...

> >

> > Anet removed the ability to perform double jumps some time ago, so doing anything with third party programs and key binds that forces the game to successfully do again jump dodges should be a no brainer in fact, that people will get banned for this action , cause Anet will have had their reasons for taking the ability of dodge jumping after such long time out of the game ...

>

> Since I found out about Arcdps I stopped teaming. I hate that people can see my damage in ways that allow them to mimic my build. I spend a lot of time in theory, so why should someone be able to steal what I create and use it against me? I do not use dulfy, metabattle, or any other generic platform that recommends a consensus generic, that is great start for beginners. The more advanced players tune to their style, but anyone can see whats happening there. They are also able to go strait to a build without experimenting. This probably costs anet money that would otherwise be used in experimenting. I'd be a little upset about it if I were an anet ceo trying to maximize profits. The excuse I would use to rid of them is, leaderboards should reflect experience, not the ability to swipe someone else's.

 

lolwut? I think you are stretching here ... Anet is losing money somehow because people will predict YOUR builds based on reading some DPS output? That doesn't make much sense to me. How does someone mimic your build based on a single DPS statistic? How does Anet lose money from people who don't experiment with builds?

[Sariel.2143]

Please close this.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Conncept.7638" said:

> This is getting ridiculous, ANet really just needs to go back to their original policy of not allowing addons, and if a feature is requested enough, put in the bloody work to add it to the game themselves.

 

Well they didn't (put features in), hence the addons declared legal (because ANet doesn't have the resources to do it themselves or something).

 

Plus, all they **really** need is a mod API. These things would **never** have been a problem if the game had a robust API from day 1.