P/P is too powerful

[Aza.2105]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

 

> Well by your logic pretty much every build in the game should be nerfed then. I don't think there are any damage-oriented builds in gw2 that cannot do 20k or more damage within a second if the other player is just standing there afk. Why should pistols thief get nerfed when all these other builds can do it as well?

 

Correct, thats why I told you do not look at it as a direct attack on the thief profession. Because its not. Ultimately the only thing this type of damage does is push the game into a direction were only long durations of block, evade and invul are the only things that keep you from dying. This is wrong, it creates a highly polarized game play where skill is absent.

 

Health needs to matter, natural defense needs to matter.

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > Oh look everyone, it's our daily qq thread about how thief is broken because "3 spam is op" even though the build is bad and easily defeated by pressing any reflect .

> > > >

> > > > So you either reflect or get 100 -0 in a second? Is this what it comes down to? This is the problem with the gw2 community, that you have people who defend this type of game play. I don't care what class it is, you should not be able to 100 - 0 a player within in a second, let alone just pressing ONE button. Its not just a "thief" thing. Damage across the board needs to be toned down significantly and firebrand needs to NOT be a healer.

> > >

> > > Implying that reflect is the only way to defeat the build now? We listed the number of ways to defeat the build, THEY ARE QUITE NUMEROUS, and the build itself is trash tier. I'm getting really kitten tired of people whining because they failed to press one of the 16+ buttons on their skill bar to prevent death. THE ONLY reason I even brought up reflect is because reflect outright DEFEATS the build by using a defensive ability.

> > >

> > > Name one other build in gw2 that LITERALLY dies instantly from full hp because it attacked into a defensive ability?

> > >

> > > I'm sorry but this isn't a case of defending a build like chronomancer which is obviously op and has no real counter, this is a build with A kitten MULTITUDE of EASILY EXECUTED COUNTERS, and your failure to use any of them is on you, not on the opponent, not on thief mains, and certainly not on anet's balance team for making a build that is easily countered but people are not smart enough to do it.

> > >

> > > Why should the game be balanced around your inability to activate a counter to a build? "BUT AH DON'T WHANT TAH PRESS MAH COUNTA PISTAHLS BUTTON" is not an excuse to nerf a build.

> >

> > You totally miss the point.

> >

>

> I'm missing the point? People are calling for nerfs to a build that is actually trash, what is the point if that isn't it?

>

> And Odik I am sorry but your english isn't good enough for me to understand you. I cannot understand your last 2 posts.

>

> What I do understand is that OP builds force the meta. During scourge+mesmer condi meta for example, EVERY BUILD needed to have condi cleanse. Here we are in a meta where none of the meta builds are running projectile reflect and everyone is whining about p/p thief. Justified? The meta says no.

 

Too bad for you , my friends dont have problems with it , if you cant understand anything thats problem with you xD

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

>

> > Well by your logic pretty much every build in the game should be nerfed then. I don't think there are any damage-oriented builds in gw2 that cannot do 20k or more damage within a second if the other player is just standing there afk. Why should pistols thief get nerfed when all these other builds can do it as well?

>

> Correct, thats why I told you do not look at it as a direct attack on the thief profession. Because its not. Ultimately the only thing this type of damage does is push the game into a direction were only long durations of block, evade and invul are the only things that keep you from dying. This is wrong, it creates a highly polarized game play where skill is absent.

>

> Health needs to matter, natural defense needs to matter.

>

 

HEALTH does matter. A warrior in zerker gear has an 8k health advantage out of the gate compared to a zerker thief. You can one shot kill a zerker thief with a warrior. If you are suggesting this not be possible then all of those warrior attacks have to drop significantly in damage. Now look at the perspective of thief. If his damage is not supposed to be anough to one shot another class in zerker gear then all of his damage has to be gutted significantly.

 

How does that thief now make up for the 8k health advantage warrior gets out of the gate?

 

Now assume all that damage gutted across the board in power attacks so no build can be killed in your one second. This means a maximum damage attack against a zerker type build would have to be around 10k . That damage then plummets against persons with higher armor and things like protection running which leads to more tank builds and fights that never end. This then leads to more condition builds to counter.

 

There is no skill argument here. There more skill involved in dodging those big attacks, or blocking them or reflecting them then there is just eating the damage and relying on health , armor and advantages in heals to self correct all your mistakes and when those health/armor and other things like easier access to protection or better heals give you a significant advantage over classes that do not rely on such then SKILL removed entirely.

[Aza.2105]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> HEALTH does matter.

 

It does not matter. If these high damage builds melt 20k health + in a second, then it melts 10k health in a second as well. What does a extra 10k health provide? A millisecond more? Thats not even a human reaction time.

 

I've tested thoroughly. I tried barbarian amulet with warrior, I melted in a second to high damage builds. I tried barbarian amulet with rev, (who has the highest raw condi mitigation in the game) and I melted in a second. It does NOT matter. You can go try yourself. If it mattered adding extra vitality would be a talked about way to counter the high damage builds going around. But its not, because you know why? Health means nothing.

 

 

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

All im saying is no class should spam 1 button for upwards or more for 15k+....its a great start or finisher to a dps rotation but i guess the devs just arnt as smart as we all thought. They make classes like ele that require 3-6 actions to accomplish the same goals but say f it when ever they feel like it....this game is in the decline for sure....at least it is for me.

[reddie.5861]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> All im saying is no class should spam 1 button for upwards or more for 15k+....its a great start or finisher to a dps rotation but i guess the devs just arnt as smart as we all thought. They make classes like ele that require 3-6 actions to accomplish the same goals but say f it when ever they feel like it....this game is in the decline for sure....at least it is for me.

 

why no class should be able to do it?

i mean can steal > cloak and dagger > backstab prolly same effect with faster dmg out put and u most likely wont even be able to react at all.

 

good old D/D thief core build is actually pretty darn fun in WvW, i sPvP its not much of a use i guess cus of CD on steal (not really needed but handy)

theres many ways for thief to diss out more dmg within 1.5 second frame just because i have to press more buttons its okay? ;)

look at mesmer blowing ur anus to the moon within a second, just because they press few buttons its okay? while any shitty keyboard could turn this into 1 button also.

 

Pistol on thief has already been nerfed to point that its quite useless, if u die to this troll build ur doing something wrong even if he bangs out 50k dmg in 1,5second if u just face tank a complete unload

[ezd.6359]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

>

> > Well by your logic pretty much every build in the game should be nerfed then. I don't think there are any damage-oriented builds in gw2 that cannot do 20k or more damage within a second if the other player is just standing there afk. Why should pistols thief get nerfed when all these other builds can do it as well?

>

> Correct, thats why I told you do not look at it as a direct attack on the thief profession. Because its not. Ultimately the only thing this type of damage does is push the game into a direction were only long durations of block, evade and invul are the only things that keep you from dying. This is wrong, it creates a highly polarized game play where skill is absent.

>

> Health needs to matter, natural defense needs to matter.

Free tip: try to wear something tanky.

 

_Ultimately the only thing this type of damage does is push the game into a direction were only long durations of block, evade and invul are the only things that keep you from dying._

No. Since main pvp maps are "conquest" opposite moves will force everyone to play even more tanky builds. We will have 0-0 matches.

 

Try to adapt, know your weak sides, abuse your class strong sides, play around it.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> All im saying is no class should spam 1 button for upwards or more for 15k+

 

The problem with P/P for Thief is there is no other button worth mashing instead of 3 other than the occasional Headshot. Literally.

 

I tried a Wizard P/P build based around Poison. I was thinking to use Body Shot to apply lots of Poison and Headshot for Torment/Boon steal... and after doing so, quickly found out that I can do more damage with a pure power/crit build using only Unload. Not only is it faster, but it frees my utilities and traits up to give a lot more sustainability.

 

I wish it were not like that, but that's the truth. Because the Thief suffers from being built around damage multipliers, and hybrid builds have always been outclassed by pure builds in that respect.

 

Trust me, I wish that the Dagger and Sword had the hitting power of P/P... melee is how the Thief should be played (it's how I've played outside the last two days). Unfortuantely, Anet has given us the old switcharoo.

 

But going back to the P/P skill set, Unload is the only skill worth using. AA is fine when out of initiative, but it's not effective like the Dagger or Sword was. Body Shot is a tactical skill, but why waste 4 initiative when you can Unload with 5 and proc Panic Strike? Headshot is great when you need to deny a stomp, but again, why waste 4 initiative on delaying an attack when you may be able to kill or scare a target away with Unload's 5? Black Powder is a defensive skill, but it's extremely weak after the nerf to its pulsing... definitely not worth the initiative cost to a P/P Thief.

 

I can only speak for Core Thief, so elites may have different reasoning. And again, I would much prefer the Dagger or Sword to hit hard instead of the Pistol or Rifle. Anet digress with me, however.

[Aza.2105]


 

Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

 

4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

 

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > HEALTH does matter.

>

> It does not matter. If these high damage builds melt 20k health + in a second, then it melts 10k health in a second as well. What does a extra 10k health provide? A millisecond more? Thats not even a human reaction time.

>

> I've tested thoroughly. I tried barbarian amulet with warrior, I melted in a second to high damage builds. I tried barbarian amulet with rev, (who has the highest raw condi mitigation in the game) and I melted in a second. It does NOT matter. You can go try yourself. If it mattered adding extra vitality would be a talked about way to counter the high damage builds going around. But its not, because you know why? Health means nothing.

>

>

>

 

Oh come on enough of the hyperbole. A millisecond? Are you kidding me? The channel of the Unload is 1.5 seconds. Most skills take 3/4 a second and more to activate. You do not have to react in a millisecond.. Were health to make no difference everyone would be in zerker, everywhere and were it as bad as you say it is every single fight would be over in a second. I will tell you what, instead of a warrior with 18k health plus base roll up a thief with 11k. If a warrior with 18k can not last more then a second then you should be having no problems with any thief in game as they should all be dead.

[Aza.2105]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

 

> Oh come on enough of the hyperbole. A millisecond? Are you kidding me? The channel of the Unload is 1.5 seconds.

Light armor targets die in maybe half the channel time. Heavy armor targets need a full unload 1/2. Medium armor targets die with a full unload, or 1.5secs.

 

 

 

 

[Majirah.5089]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

>

> > Oh come on enough of the hyperbole. A millisecond? Are you kidding me? The channel of the Unload is 1.5 seconds.

> Light armor targets die in maybe half the channel time. Heavy armor targets need a full unload 1/2. Medium armor targets die with a full unload, or 1.5secs.

>

>

>

>

 

This is hyperbole. I haven’t died to a single unload, or even 2 unloads, on any armor rating. Mainly because I’m not afk. It’s quite easy to not eat a full unload. Dodge, block, use a skill with evade, interrupt, reflect...the list goes on. Then they also don’t get the initiative refund. Without the refund the skill is expensive.

 

Also for this to even be possible when the thief is targeting an afk player the thief has to be full glass in zerker. Zerker thieves die very fast. I’m never worried about going up against a team with a pp thief. They are usually just a liability. Only thing they are good against is scourges. Even then a proper thief will do just fine.

 

[Aza.2105]

> @"Majirah.5089" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> >

> > > Oh come on enough of the hyperbole. A millisecond? Are you kidding me? The channel of the Unload is 1.5 seconds.

> > Light armor targets die in maybe half the channel time. Heavy armor targets need a full unload 1/2. Medium armor targets die with a full unload, or 1.5secs.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> This is hyperbole. I haven’t died to a single unload, or even 2 unloads, on any armor rating. Mainly because I’m not afk. It’s quite easy to not eat a full unload. Dodge, block, use a skill with evade, interrupt, reflect...the list goes on. Then they also don’t get the initiative refund. Without the refund the skill is expensive.

>

> Also for this to even be possible when the thief is targeting an afk player the thief has to be full glass in zerker. Zerker thieves die very fast. I’m never worried about going up against a team with a pp thief. They are usually just a liability. Only thing they are good against is scourges. Even then a proper thief will do just fine.

>

 

So your argument is that you dodged or blocked. Ok. But what does this have to do with a build that has 4k power, 75% crit rate and 240% crit damage chewing through armor? I'm not even sure why you mentioned armor rating, like you are magically exempt from it. You aren't, you just "avoided" a one second death. That isn't a very good argument you know. Since its a 5v5 game what does this mean? Its not a 1v1 game. Which means you aren't going to save your cooldowns, dodges etc for that one encounter with thief. Its not a realistic scenario and you should know this.

 

 

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > All im saying is no class should spam 1 button for upwards or more for 15k+....its a great start or finisher to a dps rotation but i guess the devs just arnt as smart as we all thought. They make classes like ele that require 3-6 actions to accomplish the same goals but say f it when ever they feel like it....this game is in the decline for sure....at least it is for me.

>

> why no class should be able to do it?

> i mean can steal > cloak and dagger > backstab prolly same effect with faster dmg out put and u most likely wont even be able to react at all.

>

> good old D/D thief core build is actually pretty darn fun in WvW, i sPvP its not much of a use i guess cus of CD on steal (not really needed but handy)

> theres many ways for thief to diss out more dmg within 1.5 second frame just because i have to press more buttons its okay? ;)

> look at mesmer blowing ur kitten to the moon within a second, just because they press few buttons its okay? while any kitten keyboard could turn this into 1 button also.

>

> Pistol on thief has already been nerfed to point that its quite useless, if u die to this troll build ur doing something wrong even if he bangs out 50k dmg in 1,5second if u just face tank a complete unload

 

Steal cloak and dagger and backstab are all still 3 moves that can be dodged even one of them can be be punished because they are all close ranged attacks the long range advange in a team fight that happens with spamming 3 continuously within less then 1.5 secs doing 15k+ damage is kinda unfair, but i see how it can be seen as not op if you got the right team comp to counter it.....all you really need is a focus ele with wind 4 or a tempest shareing magnetic aura to team mates but those build are just so countered by other classes thar it makes a team fight weak if that particular class isnt in the enemys comp.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> 

>

> Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

>

> 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

>

 

And 11k health

 

Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

 

The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

 

[Aza.2105]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > 

> >

> > Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

> >

> > 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

> >

>

> And 11k health

>

> Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

>

> The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

 

Yes its a conspiracy theory to get thief nerfed.

 

I know you play and enjoy the class, but gez man. You are doing the samething players who are emotionally tied to mesmer do. Aka what ever criticism about the class is a exaggeration and misleading.

 

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > 

> >

> > Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

> >

> > 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

> >

>

> And 11k health

>

> Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

>

> The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

>

 

11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > 

> > >

> > > Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

> > >

> > > 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

> > >

> >

> > And 11k health

> >

> > Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

> >

> > The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

>

> Yes its a conspiracy theory to get thief nerfed.

>

> I know you play and enjoy the class, but gez man. You are doing the samething players who are emotionally tied to mesmer do. Aka what ever criticism about the class is a exaggeration and misleading.

>

>

 

Lol I don’t play p/p thief

I could take the same photo with daggers instead of pistols and have the same numbers

 

Show the traits, buffs, and utilities

 

I literally do not care if they nerf pp thief. But I don’t want them messing with traits and utilities and basically delete thief from the game

 

11k health is a high risk high reward. If you dodge as a thief, you can’t attack at the same time save bound. If you port away away you are not attacking, generally to get those numbers you are pretty vulnerable.

 

Bullcharge and rush will down that

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > 

> > >

> > > Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

> > >

> > > 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

> > >

> >

> > And 11k health

> >

> > Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

> >

> > The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

> >

>

> 11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

>

 

What defense other than dodge? Can they shoot while dodging? They are not Mesmer

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?

 

Theres nothing wrong with projectile hate, like i said it is a great finisher or startedter to a combo. But doing nothing buut 3 and doing 15k+ while it takes every other class multipullskills to do is not fair. Even ranger 2 only does 6-9k at most iv seen and that the next biggest projectile hate i can think of atm.

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"Allarius.5670" said:

> If p/p is actually overperforming thanks to deadeye, then it needs to be addressed like any other overperforming build.

>

> However, if there are sufficient mechanics in place to counter it effectively ... Well, that is how a meta shifts.

 

If its nerfed at all in wvw, it will not be viable and deadeye goes back to being non effective. There are literally no deadeyes in wvw, so few that nerfing it would simply cease its existence. I think classes are fine, even the frustrating mesmers and thief smashing weavers. In wvw that is.

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

> > > >

> > > > 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

> > > >

> > >

> > > And 11k health

> > >

> > > Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

> > >

> > > The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

> > >

> >

> > 11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

> >

>

> What defense other than dodge? Can they shoot while dodging? They are not Mesmer

 

They dont do it at point blank its a 900 ranged skill

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > And 11k health

> > > >

> > > > Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

> > > >

> > > > The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

> > > >

> > >

> > > 11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

> > >

> >

> > What defense other than dodge? Can they shoot while dodging? They are not Mesmer

>

> They dont do it at point blank its a 900 ranged skill

 

Easier to LoS and dodge than. The skill is not hit scan. If can’t LoS and caught alone as a non 1 v 1 class, probably gonna eat the bone

[Aza.2105]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

> > > >

> > > > 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

> > > >

> > >

> > > And 11k health

> > >

> > > Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

> > >

> > > The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

> >

> > Yes its a conspiracy theory to get thief nerfed.

> >

> > I know you play and enjoy the class, but gez man. You are doing the samething players who are emotionally tied to mesmer do. Aka what ever criticism about the class is a exaggeration and misleading.

> >

> >

>

> Lol I don’t play p/p thief

> I could take the same photo with daggers instead of pistols and have the same numbers

>

> Show the traits, buffs, and utilities

 


 

[Aza.2105]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > > > 

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And 11k health

> > > > >

> > > > > Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

> > > > >

> > > > > The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

> > > >

> > >

> > > What defense other than dodge? Can they shoot while dodging? They are not Mesmer

> >

> > They dont do it at point blank its a 900 ranged skill

>

> Easier to LoS and dodge than. The skill is not hit scan. If can’t LoS and caught alone as a non 1 v 1 class, probably gonna eat the bone

 

Haven't I seen you in mesmer nerf threads talking about how overpowered they are?