CptAurellian.9537 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Huh, if only there were a version of the raid in which meta builds weren't as necessary, and they could go into the raid and do their thing and it would be considered "plenty of damage" for the encounter. . . The version of raids you're obviously looking for already exists. It's called "youtube boss videos". Lean back, do nothing, watch the boss die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > >"Rest of the game" is also the Balthazar fight in Path of Fire, Caudecus fight in the Living Story and killing moa in Queensdale. > > > > > > > > Yes, that's an *excellent* example of how to distract from a rational topic by using hyperbole. Now, if we could talk about raids instead. . . > > > > > > > > > > Funny. You said: > > > > Since the goal for an easy mode should be that it is in line with the content of the rest of the game, it should be accessible for any well-rounded player of GW2. > > > > > > And I pointed out that the "rest of the game" has different difficulty ratings and even gave some, intentionally extreme, examples. > > > > Which is why, in the portion you quoted right there, I said "well rounded player," rather than "anyone with an account." A player who can complete *most* of the game's available content could still not enjoy the struggle of the current raid encounters. Again, we are not talking about being unreasonable here. > > > > >The difference in the difficulty spectrum of this game is insane, and yet you say to make the Raids like the "rest of the game", without defining what that rest of the game is in the first place. > > > > I shouldn't have to. I *really* shouldn't have to. > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > Since the goal for an easy mode should be that it is in line with the content of the rest of the game, it *should* be accessible for any well-rounded player of GW2. > > > > > > Funny. I'd say raids *are* accessible to any well-rounded player of GW2. > > > > Yes, but your perspective on this is skewed. > > > > Again, the existing raids work fine for *your* definition of "well-rounded," so you're already covered and require no further action. It's clearly *not* fine by most players' definitions of "well rounded" or more players would spend some of their time in raids. This is like a door that's only 5ft high. You walk right through it and go "wow, that was easy," a bunch of people behind you bump their heads, and grumble about the low doorframe, and a bunch of other people didn't even bother because they could see that they'd bump their heads, and you shout back at them "come on through, it's easy!" > > If it was a game to get to the other side, I would just adjust my height and not bump my head rather than complaining that the door isnt high enough. If it was a regular door there wouldnt be many people calling it a game in the first place. *Firm* grasp on how analogies work there. Put me in my place. > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Huh, if only there were a version of the raid in which meta builds weren't as necessary, and they could go into the raid and do their thing and it would be considered "plenty of damage" for the encounter. . . > The version of raids you're obviously looking for already exists. It's called "youtube boss videos". Lean back, do nothing, watch the boss die. > Nah, that's nothing like what I'm looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > >"Rest of the game" is also the Balthazar fight in Path of Fire, Caudecus fight in the Living Story and killing moa in Queensdale. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's an *excellent* example of how to distract from a rational topic by using hyperbole. Now, if we could talk about raids instead. . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Funny. You said: > > > > > Since the goal for an easy mode should be that it is in line with the content of the rest of the game, it should be accessible for any well-rounded player of GW2. > > > > > > > > And I pointed out that the "rest of the game" has different difficulty ratings and even gave some, intentionally extreme, examples. > > > > > > Which is why, in the portion you quoted right there, I said "well rounded player," rather than "anyone with an account." A player who can complete *most* of the game's available content could still not enjoy the struggle of the current raid encounters. Again, we are not talking about being unreasonable here. > > > > > > >The difference in the difficulty spectrum of this game is insane, and yet you say to make the Raids like the "rest of the game", without defining what that rest of the game is in the first place. > > > > > > I shouldn't have to. I *really* shouldn't have to. > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > Since the goal for an easy mode should be that it is in line with the content of the rest of the game, it *should* be accessible for any well-rounded player of GW2. > > > > > > > > Funny. I'd say raids *are* accessible to any well-rounded player of GW2. > > > > > > Yes, but your perspective on this is skewed. > > > > > > Again, the existing raids work fine for *your* definition of "well-rounded," so you're already covered and require no further action. It's clearly *not* fine by most players' definitions of "well rounded" or more players would spend some of their time in raids. This is like a door that's only 5ft high. You walk right through it and go "wow, that was easy," a bunch of people behind you bump their heads, and grumble about the low doorframe, and a bunch of other people didn't even bother because they could see that they'd bump their heads, and you shout back at them "come on through, it's easy!" > > > > If it was a game to get to the other side, I would just adjust my height and not bump my head rather than complaining that the door isnt high enough. If it was a regular door there wouldnt be many people calling it a game in the first place. > > *Firm* grasp on how analogies work there. Put me in my place. I'm just applying your analogy on how I see it. You do the same thing as well. I don't see how thats suddenly an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > Since the goal for an easy mode should be that it is in line with the content of the rest of the game, it *should* be accessible for any well-rounded player of GW2. > > > > Funny. I'd say raids *are* accessible to any well-rounded player of GW2. > > Yes, but your perspective on this is skewed. > > Again, the existing raids work fine for *your* definition of "well-rounded," so you're already covered and require no further action. It's clearly *not* fine by most players' definitions of "well rounded" or more players would spend some of their time in raids. This is like a door that's only 5ft high. You walk right through it and go "wow, that was easy," a bunch of people behind you bump their heads, and grumble about the low doorframe, and a bunch of other people didn't even bother because they could see that they'd bump their heads, and you shout back at them "come on through, it's easy!" That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. "Well *rounded*" should mean decent knowledge in all the relevant areas, which clearly isn't the case. The problem isn't the game is too hard. Actually quite the opposite. The majority of the open-world players lack in skill when they face high-tier instanced content because the game never pushed them to refine their skills. It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. So we need both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > So we need both. > To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - and to do precisely what you said will never make the casual players happy. So they will never participate fully, no matter what. By their own choice. So no, nothing of the sort is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > So we need both. > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. That's not enjoying a raid, that's enjoying beating a generic punchbag. Sure, you can enjoy that. You have about 90% of the pve content in the game for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Since the goal for an easy mode should be that it is in line with the content of the rest of the game, it *should* be accessible for any well-rounded player of GW2. > > Funny. I'd say raids *are* accessible to any well-rounded player of GW2. But I would bet my definition of "well-rounded" will be quite different from yours. True, and that's why i've stopped replying to @"Ohoni.6057" , he's pretty much alone here, debating everyone else, with a few exceptions. There's some people that you can't convince no matter the facts or the evidence, it's sad, but that's also why flat-earthers are a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. GW2 survived, while Wildstart died, not because of difficulty of content (which wildstar isn't anywhere near hardcore) but because wildstar was a 2008 game (graphics-wise) launched in 2013 with a 2004 subscription model. The only reason why ESO didn't end up in the same ditch is that ESO has a bit more modern graphics and engine, and has the Elder Scrolls franchise to give it name recognition. That's the only thing that keeps Warcraft and FFXIV alive with a subscription model, it's the brand name. Wildstar didn't have a brand behind it and still tried going the subscription model, that's what killed it. Had it gone F2P from the start they would have a way larger community and a better game by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerioth.7062 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. Accept that fact and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > GW2 survived, while Wildstart died, not because of difficulty of content (which wildstar isn't anywhere near hardcore) but because wildstar was a 2008 game (graphics-wise) launched in 2013 with a 2004 subscription model. > The only reason why ESO didn't end up in the same ditch is that ESO has a bit more modern graphics and engine, and has the Elder Scrolls franchise to give it name recognition. > That's the only thing that keeps Warcraft and FFXIV alive with a subscription model, it's the brand name. > Wildstar didn't have a brand behind it and still tried going the subscription model, that's what killed it. Had it gone F2P from the start they would have a way larger community and a better game by now. Don't forget all the other mistakes Wildstar made - dreary leveling after the first character, some serious bugs, the probably worst item system of the 2000s, doubling raid size from the first to the second raid and, at least here in Europe, incredibly frustrating connectivity issues. I'm sure I've forgotten something important. So I strongly agree - WS did not die due to its difficulty, it died due to numerous stupid and avoidable mistakes. The potential was there, the execution was bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > GW2 survived, while Wildstart died, not because of difficulty of content (which wildstar isn't anywhere near hardcore) but because wildstar was a 2008 game (graphics-wise) launched in 2013 with a 2004 subscription model. > > The only reason why ESO didn't end up in the same ditch is that ESO has a bit more modern graphics and engine, and has the Elder Scrolls franchise to give it name recognition. > > That's the only thing that keeps Warcraft and FFXIV alive with a subscription model, it's the brand name. > > Wildstar didn't have a brand behind it and still tried going the subscription model, that's what killed it. Had it gone F2P from the start they would have a way larger community and a better game by now. > Don't forget all the other mistakes Wildstar made - dreary leveling after the first character, some serious bugs, the probably worst item system of the 2000s, doubling raid size from the first to the second raid and, at least here in Europe, incredibly frustrating connectivity issues. I'm sure I've forgotten something important. So I strongly agree - WS did not die due to its difficulty, it died due to numerous stupid and avoidable mistakes. The potential was there, the execution was bad. I never tried to level past the first character, didn't know it was different ^_^ Wildstar had a nice collection of social elements, the housing and the social professions were a nice change of pace, the rest was more of the same, and it didn't feel like a MMO released in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. > > Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. Accept that fact and move on. Where would you like your fellow PVE mmorpg players to move on to exactly? GW1 style of normal level raid - nope, 5 man dungeons, nope, normal mode raids like you see in every other AAA mmorpg, nope. Maybe be less selfish and think about the full community, not just try to protect your own interests (in a MMO!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerioth.7062 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > > > > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. > > > > Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. Accept that fact and move on. > > Where would you like your fellow PVE mmorpg players to move on to exactly? GW1 style of normal level raid - nope, 5 man dungeons, nope, normal mode raids like you see in every other AAA mmorpg, nope. Maybe be less selfish and think about the full community, not just try to protect your own interests (in a MMO!) > > My fellow, casual PVE guildies raid with us casually and do fractals too. That is an option for you if you change your attitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > That's not enjoying a raid, that's enjoying beating a generic punchbag. Sure, you can enjoy that. Tomayto/tomahto, the point is, it's enjoying the game. > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. But they *could,* and in so doing would make more players happy, so they *should.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > > > > > > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. > > > > > > Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. Accept that fact and move on. > > > > Where would you like your fellow PVE mmorpg players to move on to exactly? GW1 style of normal level raid - nope, 5 man dungeons, nope, normal mode raids like you see in every other AAA mmorpg, nope. Maybe be less selfish and think about the full community, not just try to protect your own interests (in a MMO!) > > > > > > My fellow, casual PVE guildies raid with us casually and do fractals too. That is an option for you if you change your attitude! uhu, i was referring to the pve players you were referring to, those that don't like the style of raiding on offer in GW2 (the majority of PVE players). incidentally I pvp/wvw in this game, and raid/PVE in ESO. So again, maybe think about others and not just your clique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerioth.7062 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > > > > > > > > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. > > > > > > > > Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. Accept that fact and move on. > > > > > > Where would you like your fellow PVE mmorpg players to move on to exactly? GW1 style of normal level raid - nope, 5 man dungeons, nope, normal mode raids like you see in every other AAA mmorpg, nope. Maybe be less selfish and think about the full community, not just try to protect your own interests (in a MMO!) > > > > > > > > > > My fellow, casual PVE guildies raid with us casually and do fractals too. That is an option for you if you change your attitude! > > uhu, i was referring to the pve players you were referring to, those that don't like the style of raiding on offer in GW2 (the majority of PVE players). incidentally I pvp/wvw in this game, and raid/PVE in ESO. So again, maybe think about others and not just your clique. Realistically speaking everyone are not going to like everything. Your argument can be flipped right back at you - what if the current raid community does not like the approach YOU want to take? Do not speak for the majority either - there are multiple reasons to why people do not raid, and some of them would not raid no matter how you change them around. Just because raids do not cater to specific playerbase does not mean that raids are bad or need an overhaul. WvW and PVP do not appeal to everyone either and that is absolutely fine. Using argumnets like "just stop thinking about yourself!" are relatively pointless and not constructive. The idea behind current gw2 raids is a fine implementation. It is fairly unqiue and interesting. GW2 does not have to revolve around raids and I don't think it should - keeping raids more appealing to a smaller playerbase is a wise solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > > > > > > > > > > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. > > > > > > > > > > Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. Accept that fact and move on. > > > > > > > > Where would you like your fellow PVE mmorpg players to move on to exactly? GW1 style of normal level raid - nope, 5 man dungeons, nope, normal mode raids like you see in every other AAA mmorpg, nope. Maybe be less selfish and think about the full community, not just try to protect your own interests (in a MMO!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My fellow, casual PVE guildies raid with us casually and do fractals too. That is an option for you if you change your attitude! > > > > uhu, i was referring to the pve players you were referring to, those that don't like the style of raiding on offer in GW2 (the majority of PVE players). incidentally I pvp/wvw in this game, and raid/PVE in ESO. So again, maybe think about others and not just your clique. > > Realistically speaking everyone are not going to like everything. Your argument can be flipped right back at you - what if the current raid community does not like the approach YOU want to take? Do not speak for the majority either - there are multiple reasons to why people do not raid, and some of them would not raid no matter how you change them around. Just because raids do not cater to specific playerbase does not mean that raids are bad or need an overhaul. WvW and PVP do not appeal to everyone either and that is absolutely fine. Using argumnets like "just stop thinking about yourself!" are relatively pointless and not constructive. The idea behind current gw2 raids is a fine implementation. It is fairly unqiue and interesting. GW2 does not have to revolve around raids and I don't think it should - keeping raids more appealing to a smaller playerbase is a wise solution. um i was replying to your point, and i'm not asking for the approach i want, i'm suggesting you be a bit altruistic and think about pve players that don't raid, and what they want. Or do you think the PVe players are happy with jsut dungeons and fractals and not getting raids they have in every other AAA game and indeed GW1, 0fc not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. Accept that fact and move on. > > > > > > > > > > Where would you like your fellow PVE mmorpg players to move on to exactly? GW1 style of normal level raid - nope, 5 man dungeons, nope, normal mode raids like you see in every other AAA mmorpg, nope. Maybe be less selfish and think about the full community, not just try to protect your own interests (in a MMO!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My fellow, casual PVE guildies raid with us casually and do fractals too. That is an option for you if you change your attitude! > > > > > > uhu, i was referring to the pve players you were referring to, those that don't like the style of raiding on offer in GW2 (the majority of PVE players). incidentally I pvp/wvw in this game, and raid/PVE in ESO. So again, maybe think about others and not just your clique. > > > > Realistically speaking everyone are not going to like everything. Your argument can be flipped right back at you - what if the current raid community does not like the approach YOU want to take? Do not speak for the majority either - there are multiple reasons to why people do not raid, and some of them would not raid no matter how you change them around. Just because raids do not cater to specific playerbase does not mean that raids are bad or need an overhaul. WvW and PVP do not appeal to everyone either and that is absolutely fine. Using argumnets like "just stop thinking about yourself!" are relatively pointless and not constructive. The idea behind current gw2 raids is a fine implementation. It is fairly unqiue and interesting. GW2 does not have to revolve around raids and I don't think it should - keeping raids more appealing to a smaller playerbase is a wise solution. > > um i was replying to your point, and i'm not asking for the approach i want, i'm suggesting you be a bit altruistic and think about pve players that don't raid, and what they want. Or do you think the PVe players are happy with jsut dungeons and fractals and not getting raids they have in every other AAA game and indeed GW1, 0fc not. We will probably have more luck with the devs making a legendary fractal armor then easy mode raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a matter of perspective, though. There are objective facts. Your definition is wrong, because players you describe by the term in question really lack a lot of understanding in the game, particularly in the team aspects of its combat system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, it's sufficient to complete, and *much* more importantly, to *enjoy* the overwhelming majority of the game. The problem is not in the players for not knowing these things that you insist they should, the problem is in content that expects them to know, or *care* about things that they clearly haven't needed to enjoy the game to this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they don't want to become the sort of player that worries about that sort of thing, and that's *not* a problem. If the devs can make it simpler to manage these systems, simpler to do the right things without having to stress about it, then great, but the "solution" here is not for the players to improve themselves any more than they feel like improving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's so forgiving and lenient that you can literally go around doing whatever you wish and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't really punish you as long as you're not actively trying to get yourself killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that, in a nutshell, is why GW2 survived while other MMOs died. That is why GW2 is GW2, and not Wildstar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fine by me. So long as the combat system allows for more and the game offers content where it matters. Which, luckily, it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And *that,* right there, is why an easy mode is necessary, because the type of gameplay that works for the majority of GW2 fans will never satisfy you, and the type of gameplay you enjoy will *never* make them happy to participate in, but they still want to be able to fully participate in the raid content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we need both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To participate fully in raid content means to accept its defining feature - the difficulty - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, and it never has been true. Enjoying the raid without the difficulty is also a thing that can happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids are, as pointed by the ArenaNet devs, most difficult endgame content and it caters to those players who want that content. Raids do not have to cater for everyone nor should they. Accept that fact and move on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where would you like your fellow PVE mmorpg players to move on to exactly? GW1 style of normal level raid - nope, 5 man dungeons, nope, normal mode raids like you see in every other AAA mmorpg, nope. Maybe be less selfish and think about the full community, not just try to protect your own interests (in a MMO!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My fellow, casual PVE guildies raid with us casually and do fractals too. That is an option for you if you change your attitude! > > > > > > > > uhu, i was referring to the pve players you were referring to, those that don't like the style of raiding on offer in GW2 (the majority of PVE players). incidentally I pvp/wvw in this game, and raid/PVE in ESO. So again, maybe think about others and not just your clique. > > > > > > Realistically speaking everyone are not going to like everything. Your argument can be flipped right back at you - what if the current raid community does not like the approach YOU want to take? Do not speak for the majority either - there are multiple reasons to why people do not raid, and some of them would not raid no matter how you change them around. Just because raids do not cater to specific playerbase does not mean that raids are bad or need an overhaul. WvW and PVP do not appeal to everyone either and that is absolutely fine. Using argumnets like "just stop thinking about yourself!" are relatively pointless and not constructive. The idea behind current gw2 raids is a fine implementation. It is fairly unqiue and interesting. GW2 does not have to revolve around raids and I don't think it should - keeping raids more appealing to a smaller playerbase is a wise solution. > > > > um i was replying to your point, and i'm not asking for the approach i want, i'm suggesting you be a bit altruistic and think about pve players that don't raid, and what they want. Or do you think the PVe players are happy with jsut dungeons and fractals and not getting raids they have in every other AAA game and indeed GW1, 0fc not. > > We will probably have more luck with the devs making a legendary fractal armor then easy mode raids. historically speaking, looking at how much time it took to make legendary armor, and only 8 devs to build the entire raid content in this game, il go with the latter :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Cerioth.7062" said: >Realistically speaking everyone are not going to like everything. Your argument can be flipped right back at you - what if the current raid community does not like the approach YOU want to take? The raid community isn't really relevant here. They already have the mode they want, they are covered. This is about closing a gap, the only people who matter are those who would fit into that gap, the players not currently raiding. If raiders are unsatisfied with the version they have, then that would be a separate conversation to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerioth.7062 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Cerioth.7062" said: > >Realistically speaking everyone are not going to like everything. Your argument can be flipped right back at you - what if the current raid community does not like the approach YOU want to take? > > The raid community isn't really relevant here. They already have the mode they want, they are covered. This is about closing a gap, the only people who matter are those who would fit into that gap, the players not currently raiding. If raiders are unsatisfied with the version they have, then that would be a separate conversation to have. The raiders would be unsatisfied with easy mode raids because it would be harmful to the raid scene. This would mean the following things: 1. The fact that raids already are split into different difficulty levels. Making an easy mode out of escort will never be on the same level with easy mode Matthias. 2. Growing the raiding scene. This is an issue if you do not want to make GW2 into a raid-centric game like many other MMOs. This is not that MMO and I hope it never will be. If you grow the raiding scene, the devs have to work harder in order to produce both normal and easy mode raids, then potentially challenge motes on top of that. This means that we are either waiting longer for each wing (which is currently an issue for the raiding community) or they have to dedicate more devs into raiding which takes away from other things in the game. 3. Again, MANY PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO RAID EVEN IF EASY MODE EXISTED, period. You could be spending all that work on enhancing other things, such as the fractals or even revamping the dungeons instead. The payoff is not as big as you think it will be. You can choose to adapt or you can choose to stick to only certain game modes and thus not being able to acquire everything. That is your own choice. You could choose to learn raids, or pay your way through them. You have the options, you are just not utilizing them. And that is on you, not on the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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