Malediktus.9250 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 thieves have medium armor and rev have medium hp pool and heavy armor. So both classes are by definition not as squishy as a weaver If anything warrior dps must be nerfed (to below thief and rev) since they have large health pool and heavy armor but currently do similar DPS than weaver in the benchmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Seeing that epi bouncing was able to outperform weavers back when we did 46k, I beg to differ. So 2-3 Necro's out performing a single Ele.... Oh no say it ain't so. How about if we're gonna be disingenuous we lump all ele DPS together too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Seeing that epi bouncing was able to outperform weavers back when we did 46k, I beg to differ. > So 2-3 Necro's out performing a single Ele.... > > Oh no say it ain't so. > > How about if we're gonna be disingenuous we lump all ele DPS together too. Yeah, people were stacking necros instead of weavers in the ERP because the former where 2-3 times less efficient. Please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > Seeing that epi bouncing was able to outperform weavers back when we did 46k, I beg to differ. > > So 2-3 Necro's out performing a single Ele.... > > > > Oh no say it ain't so. > > > > How about if we're gonna be disingenuous we lump all ele DPS together too. > > Yeah, people were stacking necros instead of weavers in the ERP because the former where 2-3 times less efficient. Please... Oh you mean the part where they only used Necro's on one fight in ERP, and Ele's literally everywhere else ? - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > thieves have medium armor and rev have medium hp pool and heavy armor. So both classes are by definition not as squishy as a weaver > > If anything warrior dps must be nerfed (to below thief and rev) since they have large health pool and heavy armor but currently do similar DPS than weaver in the benchmark I'd gladly give away 8 k hp and get +8k DPS and blocks and evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits as a necro. And you as ele get this 8k hp, but you loose 8k DPS and all blocks, evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits Would be fair no? You see, that's not how it works, and you don't want it to be like that. So next time you spill out such idiotic phrases, first think about the consequences. If you wanna have something, you have to give something. That's how it works. Sure if ele was underperforming you don't need to give something away. But ele is far away from underperforming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > Seeing that epi bouncing was able to outperform weavers back when we did 46k, I beg to differ. > > > So 2-3 Necro's out performing a single Ele.... > > > > > > Oh no say it ain't so. > > > > > > How about if we're gonna be disingenuous we lump all ele DPS together too. > > > > Yeah, people were stacking necros instead of weavers in the ERP because the former where 2-3 times less efficient. Please... > > Oh you mean the part where they only used Necro's on one fight in ERP, and Ele's literally everywhere else ? > I recall someone epi-bouncing VG and Sabetha as well. So please don't spread misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > thieves have medium armor and rev have medium hp pool and heavy armor. So both classes are by definition not as squishy as a weaver > > > > If anything warrior dps must be nerfed (to below thief and rev) since they have large health pool and heavy armor but currently do similar DPS than weaver in the benchmark > > I'd gladly give away 8 k hp and get +8k DPS and blocks and evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits as a necro. > And you as ele get this 8k hp, but you loose 8k DPS and all blocks, evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits > > Would be fair no? > > You see, that's not how it works, and you don't want it to be like that. > So next time you spill out such idiotic phrases, first think about the consequences. > If you wanna have something, you have to give something. That's how it works. > Sure if ele was underperforming you don't need to give something away. But ele is far away from underperforming Mate, I have zero blocks, and the only evade is Burning Retreat. And the difference in dps is nowhere near 8k now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > thieves have medium armor and rev have medium hp pool and heavy armor. So both classes are by definition not as squishy as a weaver > > > > > > If anything warrior dps must be nerfed (to below thief and rev) since they have large health pool and heavy armor but currently do similar DPS than weaver in the benchmark > > > > I'd gladly give away 8 k hp and get +8k DPS and blocks and evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits as a necro. > > And you as ele get this 8k hp, but you loose 8k DPS and all blocks, evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits > > > > Would be fair no? > > > > You see, that's not how it works, and you don't want it to be like that. > > So next time you spill out such idiotic phrases, first think about the consequences. > > If you wanna have something, you have to give something. That's how it works. > > Sure if ele was underperforming you don't need to give something away. But ele is far away from underperforming > > Mate, I have zero blocks, and the only evade is Burning Retreat. And the difference in dps is nowhere near 8k now. Guess you are just one of those meta-copy idiots that don't know anything about their class. So pls stop arguing about another class if you can't even play your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > Guess you are just one of those meta-copy idiots that don't know anything about their class. So pls stop arguing about another class if you can't even play your own. I mean, if you bring all those blocks and evades and invulns, your dps drops far below benchmark at which point it stops being strong. Would be same like me saying that you can bring lifesteal, pull downeds, get toughness from minions, pulse 10k barriers, pull conditions from allies, stack 25 might on everyone while still bouncing epidemic to reach 40k dps. Which isnt actually impossible since epidemic has 0 scaling with your traits, skills or even gear, at least on the primary epi user. Weaver doesnt just magically get benchmark dps from lava font and meteors. Conjured weapons and glyph (as well as traits and gear) are big part of it and they bring 0 defense or party utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > thieves have medium armor and rev have medium hp pool and heavy armor. So both classes are by definition not as squishy as a weaver > > > > > > > > If anything warrior dps must be nerfed (to below thief and rev) since they have large health pool and heavy armor but currently do similar DPS than weaver in the benchmark > > > > > > I'd gladly give away 8 k hp and get +8k DPS and blocks and evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits as a necro. > > > And you as ele get this 8k hp, but you loose 8k DPS and all blocks, evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits > > > > > > Would be fair no? > > > > > > You see, that's not how it works, and you don't want it to be like that. > > > So next time you spill out such idiotic phrases, first think about the consequences. > > > If you wanna have something, you have to give something. That's how it works. > > > Sure if ele was underperforming you don't need to give something away. But ele is far away from underperforming > > > > Mate, I have zero blocks, and the only evade is Burning Retreat. And the difference in dps is nowhere near 8k now. > > Guess you are just one of those meta-copy idiots that don't know anything about their class. So pls stop arguing about another class if you can't even play your own. It is called specialising on one aspect. The heals, cc and blocks will be provided by druid, war, chrono so the DPS people can... hold on... focus on DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > I recall someone epi-bouncing VG and Sabetha as well. So please don't spread misinformation. You brought up ERP as the subject and can't handle the video proof, so you have to label it misinformation. Interesting tactic but the proof is right there for you to enjoy. So tell us more about how Epidemic is OP when its only used by the top tier in select fights and Ele is used liberally everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > thieves have medium armor and rev have medium hp pool and heavy armor. So both classes are by definition not as squishy as a weaver > > If anything warrior dps must be nerfed (to below thief and rev) since they have large health pool and heavy armor but currently do similar DPS than weaver in the benchmark Consideting a majority of the unavoidable damage and failed mechanics deal hp% damage, does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > thieves have medium armor and rev have medium hp pool and heavy armor. So both classes are by definition not as squishy as a weaver > > > > If anything warrior dps must be nerfed (to below thief and rev) since they have large health pool and heavy armor but currently do similar DPS than weaver in the benchmark > > Consideting a majority of the unavoidable damage and failed mechanics deal hp% damage, does it matter? There are still plenty of non percentage based damage incomes in raids, otherwise the protection boon would be worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > thieves have medium armor and rev have medium hp pool and heavy armor. So both classes are by definition not as squishy as a weaver > > > > > > > > If anything warrior dps must be nerfed (to below thief and rev) since they have large health pool and heavy armor but currently do similar DPS than weaver in the benchmark > > > > > > I'd gladly give away 8 k hp and get +8k DPS and blocks and evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits as a necro. > > > And you as ele get this 8k hp, but you loose 8k DPS and all blocks, evades and invuln and sustain skills/traits > > > > > > Would be fair no? > > > > > > You see, that's not how it works, and you don't want it to be like that. > > > So next time you spill out such idiotic phrases, first think about the consequences. > > > If you wanna have something, you have to give something. That's how it works. > > > Sure if ele was underperforming you don't need to give something away. But ele is far away from underperforming > > > > Mate, I have zero blocks, and the only evade is Burning Retreat. And the difference in dps is nowhere near 8k now. > > Guess you are just one of those meta-copy idiots that don't know anything about their class. So pls stop arguing about another class if you can't even play your own. Guess I'm not. But here, I'll spell it you slowly for ya: if you spec for competitive dps, you have *zero* defense coming from utilities. None. No blocks, no invulns, nothing. If you *take* some, you lose dps and you're no longer doing "8k more". But you wanna talk fair? How would you like the "8k more" if you not only lost the barrier spam, but also had to pick up your shades from the ground in order to use their skills? How would you like the majority of your damage to come from targeted attacks, which you could miss, or the boss could simply walk away from? Please don't give me that load of crap. I have some mileage on both builds. Scourge would be fine (in PvE) if the silly bounce didn't exist. It does, however, and it is broken. Curiously enough, the same class is also broken in WvW. On a similar ground - it does waaaaay too much, waaaay too easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > I recall someone epi-bouncing VG and Sabetha as well. So please don't spread misinformation. > > You brought up ERP as the subject and can't handle the video proof, so you have to label it misinformation. Interesting tactic but the proof is right there for you to enjoy. > So tell us more about how Epidemic is OP when its only used by the top tier in select fights and Ele is used liberally everywhere else. [Come again]( "Come again")? Three-necro setup on VG (0 eles) and 4-necro setup on Sabetha (0 eles). How about that for a proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 but you can make your own group full of eles or rangers...they decided to play scourges cuz they wont...if ppl play scourge and bounce epi, it doesnt hurt you, you get same drop after clear, everybody is fine. If you are so aware of comunity why there isnt topic from friendly eles about" buff power rev, he is so bad in endgame". This isnt race. so Chill dudes and pls dont try destroy necro for pve endgame. ty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > but you can make your own group full of eles or rangers...they decided to play scourges cuz they wont...if ppl play scourge and bounce epi, it doesnt hurt you, you get same drop after clear, everybody is fine. If you are so aware of comunity why there isnt topic from friendly eles about" buff power rev, he is so bad in endgame". This isnt race. so Chill dudes and pls dont try destroy necro for pve endgame. ty. You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever First off, ele is now only god-tier class in fractals if you're god-tier player. Average eles are mostly on par with average dhs or holos. If not worse. Depends how you count your average. So while I understand your reluctance, there really isn't much to do about it. Epi is broken and needs to go. Same as 4-second Lava Font cooldown, Meteor Shower, Phoenix/Wildfire multi hits and so forth. Welcome to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever > > The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. looks like this is only idea if comes to necro huh? It suprise me, there is still stuff to nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > > > > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > > > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever > > > > The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. > > looks like this is only idea if comes to necro huh? > It suprise me, there is still stuff to nerf. If you've read the thread, you'd know that I'd like to keep Epidemic-bouncing intact. It should just be nerfed to a reasonable amount. I'm also all for changing classes like Chrono, which are indeed overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > I recall someone epi-bouncing VG and Sabetha as well. So please don't spread misinformation. > > > > You brought up ERP as the subject and can't handle the video proof, so you have to label it misinformation. Interesting tactic but the proof is right there for you to enjoy. > > So tell us more about how Epidemic is OP when its only used by the top tier in select fights and Ele is used liberally everywhere else. > > [Come again]( "Come again")? > > Three-necro setup on VG (0 eles) and 4-necro setup on Sabetha (0 eles). How about that for a proof? Oh look with your video 3/7 bosses used necro. Clearly OP. Has less than 50% presence in raids. Meanwhile also with your video ele has 4/7 usage. Over 50% presence. Tell me which is the problem child again ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > > > > > > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > > > > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever > > > > > > The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. > > > > looks like this is only idea if comes to necro huh? > > It suprise me, there is still stuff to nerf. > > If you've read the thread, you'd know that I'd like to keep Epidemic-bouncing intact. It should just be nerfed to a reasonable amount. I'm also all for changing classes like Chrono, which are indeed overpowered. Yes, it would be a good idea to delete quickness and alacrity boons from the game. They are way too powerful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > You aren't necessarily wrong, but I do understand why people don't like Scourge-stacking. It does devalue content because it makes said content tremendously easier, so I also do think that you may have to change some stuff to not rob the content of its meaning/flavor. That being said, I want to keep bouncing intact because its a nice teamplay-focused mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > sure, but its the same like ele in fractals where its god tier class, same like chrono all boon just 1 click there, isnt any other option for support cuz chrono is just insane,problem is there is no self-reflexion, i have no problem with ele be top class, same im ok chrono be best buffer,tank,dps, but once other class gets close or god help us, will be better. -> Hate will came and nerfs after that... > > > > > i was main necro and nonending nerfs just take my joy of the game... Anet just take epi and nothing will came back to compensate.. ever > > > > > > > > The problem is that you can't make classes too powerful or else you devalue content because it becomes too easy. Sometimes, you have to nerf stuff in order to balance things. > > > > > > looks like this is only idea if comes to necro huh? > > > It suprise me, there is still stuff to nerf. > > > > If you've read the thread, you'd know that I'd like to keep Epidemic-bouncing intact. It should just be nerfed to a reasonable amount. I'm also all for changing classes like Chrono, which are indeed overpowered. > Yes, it would be a good idea to delete quickness and alacrity boons from the game. They are way too powerful Come on, don't be polemic please. You know exactly what I mean. The problem isn't perma-quickness and -alacrity, it's also everything else like overpowered CC, a lot of powerful utilities and weapon-skill, the boon-spam through Chaos, optimal tank and optimal support in one, etc. Chrono is simply too good at too many things and that's bad game-design since you have no alternative, thus two chronos will always be mandatory. The Scourge-"problem" is peanuts in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now