Nova.3817 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" im sorry for your loss, but see- case in point. removing team queue caused a mass exodus. we have hit 300+ people in this thread alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here’s something fun to think about: > > > > > > > > > > > > **the solo queue poll was absolutely inane.** > > > > > > > > > > > > why? because those who voted for solo queue were doing so based on a belief that arena net knew to be false. that premades farmed PUGs in ranked, when in reality (as anet revealed to us) premades actually lost more than they won when facing non-premades. > > > > > > > > > > > > so people were voting with the intention of fixing an issue that only existed in their minds. which is not something arenanet should have entertained, because as one could plainly see, removing team play in a team game is going to have a negative effect on the population. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that people who like to play multiplayer games together, like to play multiplayer games together. so making your game into something they no longer want to play, is going to result in them no longer playing your game. so a population decline was to be expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > the result of the poll was a lose lose for everyone. it resulted in a huge playerbase decline (something that continues to this day), & a vast decrease in match quality (due to lower pop, & the fact that many people who play on teams are more adept at teamplay tactics than the average solo player), plus it killed all the pvp guilds which were very important for community quality. sure, the deluded solo queuer will claim that match quality went up because they were no longer being farmed by premades, but since this wasn’t happening there was actually no improvement in actual game quality (in fact, i would argue it’s become much worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, now the solo queue player will argue it’s better now because they don’t lose to premades, but they are still just as salty. it’s just that now they complain about bad matchmaking & a small, declining population (symptoms of removing team queue). so they are no happier than before. i would even argue that there in a much worse place because low pop, is causing big matchmaking issues which are real, whereas the premades farming solos was a fiction used to excuse lost games & prop up their fragile egos. > > > > > > > > > > > > the move to solo queue was a loss for everyone involved, both devs & players- & arenanet should have known this would be the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i just cant fathom why they did the vote- why, as a dev you would let your community vote to change a huge element of your game, when you know the vast majority are voting based on false beliefs (that premades were farming, & solo queue would improve match quality). it just doesn’t make any sense. why would you let people vote on something when you know they are wrong? especially when you know it’s going to result in population decline. > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because premade must fight other premade! Nobody cares about the winning ratio of the premades.....it's simply unfair to reach victory when playing with friends on voice chat while facing a bunch of randoms put together by a squabbling matchmaker based on the highest MMR player. > > > > > > > > > > You want premades to avoid the discomfort of playing with random player...but you're happy for others feeling that discomfort....real sportmanship ladies and gentlemen > > > > > > > > I don't think he is saying that it is "fair" i think he is saying the reason the population is dwindling is because players returned to spvp on a daily basis to play with friends that no longer exists and so therefore the population is in decline i think the argument is when given the choice between 2 evils gw2 chose the wrong one bc the negative effects were worse.....at the end of the day the solo player who felt jaded that he couldn't win vs a premade could make a premade of his own and guess what that brought more players to spvp...which would bring more and more......that's his argument not that it was competitive gw2 failed as a competitive outlet. my .02 > > > > > > > > > > It worked that way in GW1 , it worked quite well...but anet aggressively removed the system to avoid alienate the super casual....funny enough they then introduced raid lol > > > > in gw1 all anyone ever did in pvp was sync RA so they could play there 10 games together rinse repeat...... gvg was a team only mode so was HA i played gw1 since release for 10 years almost lol..... if you wanted a system like gw1 then in gw2 if you win a match you would stay with that winning team and thus we would then again be in the age of sync....lol and i def dont qualify that as "worked" in gw2 it was just random pairings regardless of skill...yea lets put that in gw2 lol > > > > The same people who asked for team queue were against team ranked mode separated from soloq with the reasoning : " not enough players to have both, not enough teams"...then they come saying :" team queue is needed to increase population". > > Nobody is against team queue...people are against this hypocrisy , teams should play only vs other teams...it's called common sense I for one personally do not fit into the category you have set forth.... i was very much against solo que but i was still fine with a premade only que.....before i quit and still had a guild i pushed very hard for hourly tourneys so we could que non stop....(which was the same as having a team only que) i just wanted to play with my friends but yet not lose my reward incentive for playing (thus is why unranked didn't feel the void and felt unrewarding to play) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"Nova.3817" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" im sorry for your loss, but see- case in point. removing team queue caused a mass exodus. we have hit 300+ people in this thread alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here’s something fun to think about: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **the solo queue poll was absolutely inane.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? because those who voted for solo queue were doing so based on a belief that arena net knew to be false. that premades farmed PUGs in ranked, when in reality (as anet revealed to us) premades actually lost more than they won when facing non-premades. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so people were voting with the intention of fixing an issue that only existed in their minds. which is not something arenanet should have entertained, because as one could plainly see, removing team play in a team game is going to have a negative effect on the population. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that people who like to play multiplayer games together, like to play multiplayer games together. so making your game into something they no longer want to play, is going to result in them no longer playing your game. so a population decline was to be expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the result of the poll was a lose lose for everyone. it resulted in a huge playerbase decline (something that continues to this day), & a vast decrease in match quality (due to lower pop, & the fact that many people who play on teams are more adept at teamplay tactics than the average solo player), plus it killed all the pvp guilds which were very important for community quality. sure, the deluded solo queuer will claim that match quality went up because they were no longer being farmed by premades, but since this wasn’t happening there was actually no improvement in actual game quality (in fact, i would argue it’s become much worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, now the solo queue player will argue it’s better now because they don’t lose to premades, but they are still just as salty. it’s just that now they complain about bad matchmaking & a small, declining population (symptoms of removing team queue). so they are no happier than before. i would even argue that there in a much worse place because low pop, is causing big matchmaking issues which are real, whereas the premades farming solos was a fiction used to excuse lost games & prop up their fragile egos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the move to solo queue was a loss for everyone involved, both devs & players- & arenanet should have known this would be the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i just cant fathom why they did the vote- why, as a dev you would let your community vote to change a huge element of your game, when you know the vast majority are voting based on false beliefs (that premades were farming, & solo queue would improve match quality). it just doesn’t make any sense. why would you let people vote on something when you know they are wrong? especially when you know it’s going to result in population decline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because premade must fight other premade! Nobody cares about the winning ratio of the premades.....it's simply unfair to reach victory when playing with friends on voice chat while facing a bunch of randoms put together by a squabbling matchmaker based on the highest MMR player. > > > > > > > > > > > > You want premades to avoid the discomfort of playing with random player...but you're happy for others feeling that discomfort....real sportmanship ladies and gentlemen > > > > > > > > > > I don't think he is saying that it is "fair" i think he is saying the reason the population is dwindling is because players returned to spvp on a daily basis to play with friends that no longer exists and so therefore the population is in decline i think the argument is when given the choice between 2 evils gw2 chose the wrong one bc the negative effects were worse.....at the end of the day the solo player who felt jaded that he couldn't win vs a premade could make a premade of his own and guess what that brought more players to spvp...which would bring more and more......that's his argument not that it was competitive gw2 failed as a competitive outlet. my .02 > > > > > > > > > > > > > It worked that way in GW1 , it worked quite well...but anet aggressively removed the system to avoid alienate the super casual....funny enough they then introduced raid lol > > > > > > in gw1 all anyone ever did in pvp was sync RA so they could play there 10 games together rinse repeat...... gvg was a team only mode so was HA i played gw1 since release for 10 years almost lol..... if you wanted a system like gw1 then in gw2 if you win a match you would stay with that winning team and thus we would then again be in the age of sync....lol and i def dont qualify that as "worked" in gw2 it was just random pairings regardless of skill...yea lets put that in gw2 lol > > > > > > > The same people who asked for team queue were against team ranked mode separated from soloq with the reasoning : " not enough players to have both, not enough teams"...then they come saying :" team queue is needed to increase population". > > > > Nobody is against team queue...people are against this hypocrisy , teams should play only vs other teams...it's called common sense > > I for one personally do not fit into the category you have set forth.... i was very much against solo que but i was still fine with a premade only que.....before i quit and still had a guild i pushed very hard for hourly tourneys so we could que non stop....(which was the same as having a team only que) > > i just wanted to play with my friends but yet not lose my reward incentive for playing (thus is why unranked didn't feel the void and felt unrewarding to play) myself, & many others agreed with you, heck i’ve even posted drafts my my concept of ‘guild queue’ with its own rules & reward system. however i am aware that i am being painted as someone who has no skill & just wants to farm solos, but that’s not the case at all. i just happen to enjoy playing team games as a team, & care about the health of a games population. but that’s a lot harder of a position to demonise. edit: i should clarify that it’s not you, @"Nova.3817" who’s painting me in such a light... it’s a certain someone else. sure, mayhap the reply is not worth it for the one it is directed at. rather, i see the reply as a potential boon to any new faces reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova.3817 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" im sorry for your loss, but see- case in point. removing team queue caused a mass exodus. we have hit 300+ people in this thread alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here’s something fun to think about: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **the solo queue poll was absolutely inane.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? because those who voted for solo queue were doing so based on a belief that arena net knew to be false. that premades farmed PUGs in ranked, when in reality (as anet revealed to us) premades actually lost more than they won when facing non-premades. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so people were voting with the intention of fixing an issue that only existed in their minds. which is not something arenanet should have entertained, because as one could plainly see, removing team play in a team game is going to have a negative effect on the population. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that people who like to play multiplayer games together, like to play multiplayer games together. so making your game into something they no longer want to play, is going to result in them no longer playing your game. so a population decline was to be expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the result of the poll was a lose lose for everyone. it resulted in a huge playerbase decline (something that continues to this day), & a vast decrease in match quality (due to lower pop, & the fact that many people who play on teams are more adept at teamplay tactics than the average solo player), plus it killed all the pvp guilds which were very important for community quality. sure, the deluded solo queuer will claim that match quality went up because they were no longer being farmed by premades, but since this wasn’t happening there was actually no improvement in actual game quality (in fact, i would argue it’s become much worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, now the solo queue player will argue it’s better now because they don’t lose to premades, but they are still just as salty. it’s just that now they complain about bad matchmaking & a small, declining population (symptoms of removing team queue). so they are no happier than before. i would even argue that there in a much worse place because low pop, is causing big matchmaking issues which are real, whereas the premades farming solos was a fiction used to excuse lost games & prop up their fragile egos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the move to solo queue was a loss for everyone involved, both devs & players- & arenanet should have known this would be the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i just cant fathom why they did the vote- why, as a dev you would let your community vote to change a huge element of your game, when you know the vast majority are voting based on false beliefs (that premades were farming, & solo queue would improve match quality). it just doesn’t make any sense. why would you let people vote on something when you know they are wrong? especially when you know it’s going to result in population decline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because premade must fight other premade! Nobody cares about the winning ratio of the premades.....it's simply unfair to reach victory when playing with friends on voice chat while facing a bunch of randoms put together by a squabbling matchmaker based on the highest MMR player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want premades to avoid the discomfort of playing with random player...but you're happy for others feeling that discomfort....real sportmanship ladies and gentlemen > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think he is saying that it is "fair" i think he is saying the reason the population is dwindling is because players returned to spvp on a daily basis to play with friends that no longer exists and so therefore the population is in decline i think the argument is when given the choice between 2 evils gw2 chose the wrong one bc the negative effects were worse.....at the end of the day the solo player who felt jaded that he couldn't win vs a premade could make a premade of his own and guess what that brought more players to spvp...which would bring more and more......that's his argument not that it was competitive gw2 failed as a competitive outlet. my .02 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It worked that way in GW1 , it worked quite well...but anet aggressively removed the system to avoid alienate the super casual....funny enough they then introduced raid lol > > > > > > > > in gw1 all anyone ever did in pvp was sync RA so they could play there 10 games together rinse repeat...... gvg was a team only mode so was HA i played gw1 since release for 10 years almost lol..... if you wanted a system like gw1 then in gw2 if you win a match you would stay with that winning team and thus we would then again be in the age of sync....lol and i def dont qualify that as "worked" in gw2 it was just random pairings regardless of skill...yea lets put that in gw2 lol > > > > > > > > > > The same people who asked for team queue were against team ranked mode separated from soloq with the reasoning : " not enough players to have both, not enough teams"...then they come saying :" team queue is needed to increase population". > > > > > > Nobody is against team queue...people are against this hypocrisy , teams should play only vs other teams...it's called common sense > > > > I for one personally do not fit into the category you have set forth.... i was very much against solo que but i was still fine with a premade only que.....before i quit and still had a guild i pushed very hard for hourly tourneys so we could que non stop....(which was the same as having a team only que) > > > > i just wanted to play with my friends but yet not lose my reward incentive for playing (thus is why unranked didn't feel the void and felt unrewarding to play) > > myself, & many others agreed with you, heck i’ve even posted drafts my my concept of ‘guild queue’ with its own rules & reward system. > > however i am aware that i am being painted as someone who has no skill & just wants to farm solos, but that’s not the case at all. i just happen to enjoy playing team games as a team, & care about the health of a games population. but that’s a lot harder of a position to demonise. I don't ever dignify that with a defense my fav games were against other pvp guilds! yes we won against pugs true but we ALSO got ROFL stomped by pugs sometimes bc they were WAY better than us and sometimes bc we had a very bad friend we were teaching the game! honestly the outcomes of games never changed with team or solo que what changed is that i couldn't enjoy the experience with a group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"choovanski.5462" said: > @"Arheundel.6451" > > dude... you’re gonna have to up your game > > there were ways for people to easily form teams, primarily being pvp guilds- which many people have already mentioned. there was also an LFG tool for teams, which would have been useful if anyone used it. not sure why you like to pretend guilds don’t exist in guild wars 2, but hey who can really know the workings of the mind of another? > > >With that said, the idea of mixing premades with randoms remain absurd, your whole argument is based on a special case scenario out of dozen where the matchmaking place 5 players of above average skill in a random team vs an average premade....we had premade in the past with the leaderboard where 90% of top positions were occupied by premade players not by skilled individuals. > > im a big fan of this paragraph. it shows you either don’t understand my posts at all, or you’re misrepresenting them on purpose. > > i’ve already pointed out that the same ESL/pro league players were at the top of the leaderboard both when we had premades, & when they were removed. you’ve ignored this, & claim that for reasons known only to yourself that those at the top of the leaderboard who played in premades have no skill. despite many of them being the same players that competed in ESL & pro league. > > but that’s not all. you seem to believe that my “whole argument is based on a special case scenario out of dozen where the matchmaking place 5 players of above average skill in a random team vs an average premade” which is not true at all. but i figure you’re clumsily referring to the fact that premades statistically lost more than they won when facing non premades. for some reason you seem to think that the games where the premade lost were “a special case scenario out of dozen”, which can’t be the case if premades statistically lost more than they won. if what you claim is true then premades would win most of their matches versus non teams, & only lose say one in twelve (what a you imply by using dozen). however since we know from anet that premades lost more than they won, your outlier scenario can't be true- as the facts support the opposite. that instead of being an outlier scenario, a premade losing is actually more normal than them winning (on average). > > so yeah... > > what can i say dude. what you’ve posted doesn’t even make logical or rational sense. > > also you’ve also consistently failed to address the fact that removing team queue has resulted in a massive population decline, which has done nigh irreparable to to the community & matchmaking, which is the foundation of my argument. so in all honesty, while you are quoting my posts you’re hardly even replying to them. in fact, you’re ignoring most of them. You accuse my posts of being non-sense when it's you who want promote a gamemode where organized teams faces random pick up teams and this idea based on assumptions and self-created statics. It seems you completely forget that we have AT-UGO and other facilities to accommodate all these "teams" . All that has been done so far makes 100% sense : organized teams face each other in an organized setting. And the question is : **we have AT, we have UGO...where is your guild?** , to claim that the removal of team queue caused pop drop...when we have daily/monthly tournies for teams with rather generous rewards...but that's not good for you and your friends....instead you want to fight vs random pickup pugs of different skill level because......no reason that could benefit anybody else but the premades in a soloq setting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"Nova.3817" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" im sorry for your loss, but see- case in point. removing team queue caused a mass exodus. we have hit 300+ people in this thread alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here’s something fun to think about: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **the solo queue poll was absolutely inane.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? because those who voted for solo queue were doing so based on a belief that arena net knew to be false. that premades farmed PUGs in ranked, when in reality (as anet revealed to us) premades actually lost more than they won when facing non-premades. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so people were voting with the intention of fixing an issue that only existed in their minds. which is not something arenanet should have entertained, because as one could plainly see, removing team play in a team game is going to have a negative effect on the population. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that people who like to play multiplayer games together, like to play multiplayer games together. so making your game into something they no longer want to play, is going to result in them no longer playing your game. so a population decline was to be expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the result of the poll was a lose lose for everyone. it resulted in a huge playerbase decline (something that continues to this day), & a vast decrease in match quality (due to lower pop, & the fact that many people who play on teams are more adept at teamplay tactics than the average solo player), plus it killed all the pvp guilds which were very important for community quality. sure, the deluded solo queuer will claim that match quality went up because they were no longer being farmed by premades, but since this wasn’t happening there was actually no improvement in actual game quality (in fact, i would argue it’s become much worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, now the solo queue player will argue it’s better now because they don’t lose to premades, but they are still just as salty. it’s just that now they complain about bad matchmaking & a small, declining population (symptoms of removing team queue). so they are no happier than before. i would even argue that there in a much worse place because low pop, is causing big matchmaking issues which are real, whereas the premades farming solos was a fiction used to excuse lost games & prop up their fragile egos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the move to solo queue was a loss for everyone involved, both devs & players- & arenanet should have known this would be the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i just cant fathom why they did the vote- why, as a dev you would let your community vote to change a huge element of your game, when you know the vast majority are voting based on false beliefs (that premades were farming, & solo queue would improve match quality). it just doesn’t make any sense. why would you let people vote on something when you know they are wrong? especially when you know it’s going to result in population decline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because premade must fight other premade! Nobody cares about the winning ratio of the premades.....it's simply unfair to reach victory when playing with friends on voice chat while facing a bunch of randoms put together by a squabbling matchmaker based on the highest MMR player. > > > > > > > > > > > > You want premades to avoid the discomfort of playing with random player...but you're happy for others feeling that discomfort....real sportmanship ladies and gentlemen > > > > > > > > > > I don't think he is saying that it is "fair" i think he is saying the reason the population is dwindling is because players returned to spvp on a daily basis to play with friends that no longer exists and so therefore the population is in decline i think the argument is when given the choice between 2 evils gw2 chose the wrong one bc the negative effects were worse.....at the end of the day the solo player who felt jaded that he couldn't win vs a premade could make a premade of his own and guess what that brought more players to spvp...which would bring more and more......that's his argument not that it was competitive gw2 failed as a competitive outlet. my .02 > > > > > > > > > > > > > It worked that way in GW1 , it worked quite well...but anet aggressively removed the system to avoid alienate the super casual....funny enough they then introduced raid lol > > > > > > in gw1 all anyone ever did in pvp was sync RA so they could play there 10 games together rinse repeat...... gvg was a team only mode so was HA i played gw1 since release for 10 years almost lol..... if you wanted a system like gw1 then in gw2 if you win a match you would stay with that winning team and thus we would then again be in the age of sync....lol and i def dont qualify that as "worked" in gw2 it was just random pairings regardless of skill...yea lets put that in gw2 lol > > > > > > > The same people who asked for team queue were against team ranked mode separated from soloq with the reasoning : " not enough players to have both, not enough teams"...then they come saying :" team queue is needed to increase population". > > > > Nobody is against team queue...people are against this hypocrisy , teams should play only vs other teams...it's called common sense > > I for one personally do not fit into the category you have set forth.... i was very much against solo que but i was still fine with a premade only que.....before i quit and still had a guild i pushed very hard for hourly tourneys so we could que non stop....(which was the same as having a team only que) > > i just wanted to play with my friends but yet not lose my reward incentive for playing (thus is why unranked didn't feel the void and felt unrewarding to play) Yes and people can still play with friends during AT and UGO, the rewards are worth the effort..Anet was spot on in removing team queue from soloq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" > > > > dude... you’re gonna have to up your game > > > > there were ways for people to easily form teams, primarily being pvp guilds- which many people have already mentioned. there was also an LFG tool for teams, which would have been useful if anyone used it. not sure why you like to pretend guilds don’t exist in guild wars 2, but hey who can really know the workings of the mind of another? > > > > >With that said, the idea of mixing premades with randoms remain absurd, your whole argument is based on a special case scenario out of dozen where the matchmaking place 5 players of above average skill in a random team vs an average premade....we had premade in the past with the leaderboard where 90% of top positions were occupied by premade players not by skilled individuals. > > > > im a big fan of this paragraph. it shows you either don’t understand my posts at all, or you’re misrepresenting them on purpose. > > > > i’ve already pointed out that the same ESL/pro league players were at the top of the leaderboard both when we had premades, & when they were removed. you’ve ignored this, & claim that for reasons known only to yourself that those at the top of the leaderboard who played in premades have no skill. despite many of them being the same players that competed in ESL & pro league. > > > > but that’s not all. you seem to believe that my “whole argument is based on a special case scenario out of dozen where the matchmaking place 5 players of above average skill in a random team vs an average premade” which is not true at all. but i figure you’re clumsily referring to the fact that premades statistically lost more than they won when facing non premades. for some reason you seem to think that the games where the premade lost were “a special case scenario out of dozen”, which can’t be the case if premades statistically lost more than they won. if what you claim is true then premades would win most of their matches versus non teams, & only lose say one in twelve (what a you imply by using dozen). however since we know from anet that premades lost more than they won, your outlier scenario can't be true- as the facts support the opposite. that instead of being an outlier scenario, a premade losing is actually more normal than them winning (on average). > > > > so yeah... > > > > what can i say dude. what you’ve posted doesn’t even make logical or rational sense. > > > > also you’ve also consistently failed to address the fact that removing team queue has resulted in a massive population decline, which has done nigh irreparable to to the community & matchmaking, which is the foundation of my argument. so in all honesty, while you are quoting my posts you’re hardly even replying to them. in fact, you’re ignoring most of them. > > You accuse my posts of being non-sense when it's you who want promote a gamemode where organized teams faces random pick up teams and this idea based on assumptions and self-created statics. It seems you completely forget that we have AT-UGO and other facilities to accommodate all these "teams" . All that has been done so far makes 100% sense : organized teams face each other in an organized setting. > > And the question is : **we have AT, we have UGO...where is your guild?** , to claim that the removal of team queue caused pop drop...when we have daily/monthly tournies for teams with rather generous rewards...but that's not good for you and your friends....instead you want to fight vs random pickup pugs of different skill level because......no reason that could benefit anybody else but the premades in a soloq setting  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" > > > > dude... you’re gonna have to up your game > > > > there were ways for people to easily form teams, primarily being pvp guilds- which many people have already mentioned. there was also an LFG tool for teams, which would have been useful if anyone used it. not sure why you like to pretend guilds don’t exist in guild wars 2, but hey who can really know the workings of the mind of another? > > > > >With that said, the idea of mixing premades with randoms remain absurd, your whole argument is based on a special case scenario out of dozen where the matchmaking place 5 players of above average skill in a random team vs an average premade....we had premade in the past with the leaderboard where 90% of top positions were occupied by premade players not by skilled individuals. > > > > im a big fan of this paragraph. it shows you either don’t understand my posts at all, or you’re misrepresenting them on purpose. > > > > i’ve already pointed out that the same ESL/pro league players were at the top of the leaderboard both when we had premades, & when they were removed. you’ve ignored this, & claim that for reasons known only to yourself that those at the top of the leaderboard who played in premades have no skill. despite many of them being the same players that competed in ESL & pro league. > > > > but that’s not all. you seem to believe that my “whole argument is based on a special case scenario out of dozen where the matchmaking place 5 players of above average skill in a random team vs an average premade” which is not true at all. but i figure you’re clumsily referring to the fact that premades statistically lost more than they won when facing non premades. for some reason you seem to think that the games where the premade lost were “a special case scenario out of dozen”, which can’t be the case if premades statistically lost more than they won. if what you claim is true then premades would win most of their matches versus non teams, & only lose say one in twelve (what a you imply by using dozen). however since we know from anet that premades lost more than they won, your outlier scenario can't be true- as the facts support the opposite. that instead of being an outlier scenario, a premade losing is actually more normal than them winning (on average). > > > > so yeah... > > > > what can i say dude. what you’ve posted doesn’t even make logical or rational sense. > > > > also you’ve also consistently failed to address the fact that removing team queue has resulted in a massive population decline, which has done nigh irreparable to to the community & matchmaking, which is the foundation of my argument. so in all honesty, while you are quoting my posts you’re hardly even replying to them. in fact, you’re ignoring most of them. > > You accuse my posts of being non-sense when it's you who want promote a gamemode where organized teams faces random pick up teams and this idea based on assumptions and self-created statics. It seems you completely forget that we have AT-UGO and other facilities to accommodate all these "teams" . All that has been done so far makes 100% sense : organized teams face each other in an organized setting. > > And the question is : **we have AT, we have UGO...where is your guild?** , to claim that the removal of team queue caused pop drop...when we have daily/monthly tournies for teams with rather generous rewards...but that's not good for you and your friends....instead you want to fight vs random pickup pugs of different skill level because......no reason that could benefit anybody else but the premades in a soloq setting The big difference between an actual Team-Queue and AT's / UGO as you're bringing up, is that AT's are once every six hours and UGO is once every month / every two months. The statistics were posted by ArenaNet in the giant "Bring back 5 man Queue" thread. Go search for it if you feel like it. Full premades lost more games than they won against full SoloQ teams. Wether you'd like to believe it or not. HOWEVER, there were a few outliers. Car Crashed being one of them. This was a team consisting of above average skill level players that farmed Ranked in the off-hours and going like 200-4 in games. This was an issue. But one you'll have to live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" > > > > > > dude... you’re gonna have to up your game > > > > > > there were ways for people to easily form teams, primarily being pvp guilds- which many people have already mentioned. there was also an LFG tool for teams, which would have been useful if anyone used it. not sure why you like to pretend guilds don’t exist in guild wars 2, but hey who can really know the workings of the mind of another? > > > > > > >With that said, the idea of mixing premades with randoms remain absurd, your whole argument is based on a special case scenario out of dozen where the matchmaking place 5 players of above average skill in a random team vs an average premade....we had premade in the past with the leaderboard where 90% of top positions were occupied by premade players not by skilled individuals. > > > > > > im a big fan of this paragraph. it shows you either don’t understand my posts at all, or you’re misrepresenting them on purpose. > > > > > > i’ve already pointed out that the same ESL/pro league players were at the top of the leaderboard both when we had premades, & when they were removed. you’ve ignored this, & claim that for reasons known only to yourself that those at the top of the leaderboard who played in premades have no skill. despite many of them being the same players that competed in ESL & pro league. > > > > > > but that’s not all. you seem to believe that my “whole argument is based on a special case scenario out of dozen where the matchmaking place 5 players of above average skill in a random team vs an average premade” which is not true at all. but i figure you’re clumsily referring to the fact that premades statistically lost more than they won when facing non premades. for some reason you seem to think that the games where the premade lost were “a special case scenario out of dozen”, which can’t be the case if premades statistically lost more than they won. if what you claim is true then premades would win most of their matches versus non teams, & only lose say one in twelve (what a you imply by using dozen). however since we know from anet that premades lost more than they won, your outlier scenario can't be true- as the facts support the opposite. that instead of being an outlier scenario, a premade losing is actually more normal than them winning (on average). > > > > > > so yeah... > > > > > > what can i say dude. what you’ve posted doesn’t even make logical or rational sense. > > > > > > also you’ve also consistently failed to address the fact that removing team queue has resulted in a massive population decline, which has done nigh irreparable to to the community & matchmaking, which is the foundation of my argument. so in all honesty, while you are quoting my posts you’re hardly even replying to them. in fact, you’re ignoring most of them. > > > > You accuse my posts of being non-sense when it's you who want promote a gamemode where organized teams faces random pick up teams and this idea based on assumptions and self-created statics. It seems you completely forget that we have AT-UGO and other facilities to accommodate all these "teams" . All that has been done so far makes 100% sense : organized teams face each other in an organized setting. > > > > And the question is : **we have AT, we have UGO...where is your guild?** , to claim that the removal of team queue caused pop drop...when we have daily/monthly tournies for teams with rather generous rewards...but that's not good for you and your friends....instead you want to fight vs random pickup pugs of different skill level because......no reason that could benefit anybody else but the premades in a soloq setting > > The big difference between an actual Team-Queue and AT's / UGO as you're bringing up, is that AT's are once every six hours and UGO is once every month / every two months. > > The statistics were posted by ArenaNet in the giant "Bring back 5 man Queue" thread. Go search for it if you feel like it. Full premades lost more games than they won against full SoloQ teams. Wether you'd like to believe it or not. > > HOWEVER, there were a few outliers. Car Crashed being one of them. This was a team consisting of above average skill level players that farmed Ranked in the off-hours and going like 200-4 in games. This was an issue. But one you'll have to live with. People can wait 6 hrs ...or ask for more tournies time slots ...or there is unranked/hotjoin...you can play there with your friends while waiting for the tournies to start, ranked soloq is there to give a balanced start to solo players , facing a premade is not a balanced start, whether the premade is an ESL team or not...matters not. I find the whole argumentation quite hilarious : A) " I want to play with friends" B) " OK go play tournies that have big rewards" A) " I don't want to wait, I want to play vs pugs, I don't have time" B) " that's not fair..." A) "It is...pugs can take **their time** and make teams" B) " So you don't want waste time..but you want others to waste time looking for people...why don't play unranked" A) " I want rewards" B) ".......self-entitlement at its best" P.S oh I like the smiley face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allias.1420 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > > * lack of team play in ranked > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > I would love to hear some of your thoughts on how to fix population issues, you have a knack of picking apart peoples responses without contributing yourself. > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > Some of the reasons I have seen **others** say made them leave PVP are: > > > My perception of the "shrinking population" issue is being processed by my skritt sized brain. So I decided an issue of this caliber probably needs to be attacked by the whole community rather than just my view, and so I asked about others feelings. You have made compelling arguments from your standpoint. Also I enjoy how you format your post as you respond to people; it makes it easier to read for me. > > I will defend my main class without fail even if I am utterly wrong, because sometimes I am not. > > Edit: How would I address PVP population? (lets just assume any of these are possible): > * actively engage the community even more, constantly acknowledging feedback in some way > * fix issues with a large consensus of importance > * offer more frequent tournaments, or introduce a tournament league with a leader board > * as I fix issues, create content to show off the game mode and stream as well > This right here. Anet should hire you as their marketing consultant. But seriously, what's the reason why they are not doing this already? Probably because of limited resources/time, manpower, etc. Must also consider the fact that PvE is of greater importance so that's where they focus on mainly, as a consequence the pvp fanbase suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova.3817 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" im sorry for your loss, but see- case in point. removing team queue caused a mass exodus. we have hit 300+ people in this thread alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here’s something fun to think about: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **the solo queue poll was absolutely inane.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? because those who voted for solo queue were doing so based on a belief that arena net knew to be false. that premades farmed PUGs in ranked, when in reality (as anet revealed to us) premades actually lost more than they won when facing non-premades. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so people were voting with the intention of fixing an issue that only existed in their minds. which is not something arenanet should have entertained, because as one could plainly see, removing team play in a team game is going to have a negative effect on the population. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that people who like to play multiplayer games together, like to play multiplayer games together. so making your game into something they no longer want to play, is going to result in them no longer playing your game. so a population decline was to be expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the result of the poll was a lose lose for everyone. it resulted in a huge playerbase decline (something that continues to this day), & a vast decrease in match quality (due to lower pop, & the fact that many people who play on teams are more adept at teamplay tactics than the average solo player), plus it killed all the pvp guilds which were very important for community quality. sure, the deluded solo queuer will claim that match quality went up because they were no longer being farmed by premades, but since this wasn’t happening there was actually no improvement in actual game quality (in fact, i would argue it’s become much worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, now the solo queue player will argue it’s better now because they don’t lose to premades, but they are still just as salty. it’s just that now they complain about bad matchmaking & a small, declining population (symptoms of removing team queue). so they are no happier than before. i would even argue that there in a much worse place because low pop, is causing big matchmaking issues which are real, whereas the premades farming solos was a fiction used to excuse lost games & prop up their fragile egos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the move to solo queue was a loss for everyone involved, both devs & players- & arenanet should have known this would be the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i just cant fathom why they did the vote- why, as a dev you would let your community vote to change a huge element of your game, when you know the vast majority are voting based on false beliefs (that premades were farming, & solo queue would improve match quality). it just doesn’t make any sense. why would you let people vote on something when you know they are wrong? especially when you know it’s going to result in population decline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because premade must fight other premade! Nobody cares about the winning ratio of the premades.....it's simply unfair to reach victory when playing with friends on voice chat while facing a bunch of randoms put together by a squabbling matchmaker based on the highest MMR player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want premades to avoid the discomfort of playing with random player...but you're happy for others feeling that discomfort....real sportmanship ladies and gentlemen > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think he is saying that it is "fair" i think he is saying the reason the population is dwindling is because players returned to spvp on a daily basis to play with friends that no longer exists and so therefore the population is in decline i think the argument is when given the choice between 2 evils gw2 chose the wrong one bc the negative effects were worse.....at the end of the day the solo player who felt jaded that he couldn't win vs a premade could make a premade of his own and guess what that brought more players to spvp...which would bring more and more......that's his argument not that it was competitive gw2 failed as a competitive outlet. my .02 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It worked that way in GW1 , it worked quite well...but anet aggressively removed the system to avoid alienate the super casual....funny enough they then introduced raid lol > > > > > > > > in gw1 all anyone ever did in pvp was sync RA so they could play there 10 games together rinse repeat...... gvg was a team only mode so was HA i played gw1 since release for 10 years almost lol..... if you wanted a system like gw1 then in gw2 if you win a match you would stay with that winning team and thus we would then again be in the age of sync....lol and i def dont qualify that as "worked" in gw2 it was just random pairings regardless of skill...yea lets put that in gw2 lol > > > > > > > > > > The same people who asked for team queue were against team ranked mode separated from soloq with the reasoning : " not enough players to have both, not enough teams"...then they come saying :" team queue is needed to increase population". > > > > > > Nobody is against team queue...people are against this hypocrisy , teams should play only vs other teams...it's called common sense > > > > I for one personally do not fit into the category you have set forth.... i was very much against solo que but i was still fine with a premade only que.....before i quit and still had a guild i pushed very hard for hourly tourneys so we could que non stop....(which was the same as having a team only que) > > > > i just wanted to play with my friends but yet not lose my reward incentive for playing (thus is why unranked didn't feel the void and felt unrewarding to play) > > Yes and people can still play with friends during AT and UGO, the rewards are worth the effort..Anet was spot on in removing team queue from soloq i havent logged on in months but last time i checked AT occurs every 3-4 hours or so i think..... meaning that during that intermission we would que in unranked which is unrewarding... again i agreed the tourneys were a acceptable outlet....if the occured every hour so that as soon as one is over another can be qued for... as it stands i may log on and have to wait 3 hours before i play rewarding content....good stuff....say what you will this is my opinion you keep trying to throw it on us like we wont to play randos.... no matter how many times we say a team que in ranked would be just as good lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" im sorry for your loss, but see- case in point. removing team queue caused a mass exodus. we have hit 300+ people in this thread alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here’s something fun to think about: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **the solo queue poll was absolutely inane.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? because those who voted for solo queue were doing so based on a belief that arena net knew to be false. that premades farmed PUGs in ranked, when in reality (as anet revealed to us) premades actually lost more than they won when facing non-premades. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so people were voting with the intention of fixing an issue that only existed in their minds. which is not something arenanet should have entertained, because as one could plainly see, removing team play in a team game is going to have a negative effect on the population. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that people who like to play multiplayer games together, like to play multiplayer games together. so making your game into something they no longer want to play, is going to result in them no longer playing your game. so a population decline was to be expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the result of the poll was a lose lose for everyone. it resulted in a huge playerbase decline (something that continues to this day), & a vast decrease in match quality (due to lower pop, & the fact that many people who play on teams are more adept at teamplay tactics than the average solo player), plus it killed all the pvp guilds which were very important for community quality. sure, the deluded solo queuer will claim that match quality went up because they were no longer being farmed by premades, but since this wasn’t happening there was actually no improvement in actual game quality (in fact, i would argue it’s become much worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, now the solo queue player will argue it’s better now because they don’t lose to premades, but they are still just as salty. it’s just that now they complain about bad matchmaking & a small, declining population (symptoms of removing team queue). so they are no happier than before. i would even argue that there in a much worse place because low pop, is causing big matchmaking issues which are real, whereas the premades farming solos was a fiction used to excuse lost games & prop up their fragile egos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the move to solo queue was a loss for everyone involved, both devs & players- & arenanet should have known this would be the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i just cant fathom why they did the vote- why, as a dev you would let your community vote to change a huge element of your game, when you know the vast majority are voting based on false beliefs (that premades were farming, & solo queue would improve match quality). it just doesn’t make any sense. why would you let people vote on something when you know they are wrong? especially when you know it’s going to result in population decline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because premade must fight other premade! Nobody cares about the winning ratio of the premades.....it's simply unfair to reach victory when playing with friends on voice chat while facing a bunch of randoms put together by a squabbling matchmaker based on the highest MMR player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want premades to avoid the discomfort of playing with random player...but you're happy for others feeling that discomfort....real sportmanship ladies and gentlemen > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think he is saying that it is "fair" i think he is saying the reason the population is dwindling is because players returned to spvp on a daily basis to play with friends that no longer exists and so therefore the population is in decline i think the argument is when given the choice between 2 evils gw2 chose the wrong one bc the negative effects were worse.....at the end of the day the solo player who felt jaded that he couldn't win vs a premade could make a premade of his own and guess what that brought more players to spvp...which would bring more and more......that's his argument not that it was competitive gw2 failed as a competitive outlet. my .02 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It worked that way in GW1 , it worked quite well...but anet aggressively removed the system to avoid alienate the super casual....funny enough they then introduced raid lol > > > > > > > > in gw1 all anyone ever did in pvp was sync RA so they could play there 10 games together rinse repeat...... gvg was a team only mode so was HA i played gw1 since release for 10 years almost lol..... if you wanted a system like gw1 then in gw2 if you win a match you would stay with that winning team and thus we would then again be in the age of sync....lol and i def dont qualify that as "worked" in gw2 it was just random pairings regardless of skill...yea lets put that in gw2 lol > > > > > > > > > > The same people who asked for team queue were against team ranked mode separated from soloq with the reasoning : " not enough players to have both, not enough teams"...then they come saying :" team queue is needed to increase population". > > > > > > Nobody is against team queue...people are against this hypocrisy , teams should play only vs other teams...it's called common sense > > > > I for one personally do not fit into the category you have set forth.... i was very much against solo que but i was still fine with a premade only que.....before i quit and still had a guild i pushed very hard for hourly tourneys so we could que non stop....(which was the same as having a team only que) > > > > i just wanted to play with my friends but yet not lose my reward incentive for playing (thus is why unranked didn't feel the void and felt unrewarding to play) > > Yes and people can still play with friends during AT and UGO, the rewards are worth the effort..Anet was spot on in removing team queue from soloq That does not appeal to players like myself due to the times of the tournaments. I'm at work at 1pm, coming home from work at 6pm and sleeping at 1am. There's also a bad taste in the mouth from the thought of facing against win traders and people who exploit the system, I'd rather stay out of that corner and let those players play within themselves. I remember being in a PvP guild and quite often we would end up facing each other for several games in a row, it was almost as if the system was putting premades against premades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova.3817 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 This Thread is getting about where it always gets......one side petitions for fun with friends.... the other guy wants to be in a house full of loners bc he cant be bothered to make friends or join a guild in "guild" wars 2..... this is exactly why i left and i dont think there is any hope for change best of luck to you all still holding out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I've been mostly away playing GW1 because it's more fun than GW2 pvp.. it's really as simple as that. **My beloved Mesmer is a constant scapegoat and nerf target.** *The balance swings so wildly that I can't trust the game to be fair.* At the moment, Scourge is the major factor making things unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Nova.3817" said: > This Thread is getting about where it always gets......one side petitions for fun with friends.... the other guy wants to be in a house full of loners bc he cant be bothered to make friends or join a guild in "guild" wars 2..... this is exactly why i left and i dont think there is any hope for change best of luck to you all still holding out! Unfortunately for you people can read quite clearly....nobody here stopping you from having fun with your friend and Anet gave you plenty of tools to do so with big juicy rewards....now people will have a problem if your idea fun imply shitting on their pvp experience. You can turn around the argument all you want but...you cannot change the logic process here, you contradict yourself at every turn: -You don't have time to wait 6 hrs for tournies.....but you're the one playing the most compared to the "loners" who have 40-50 hrs job and play only weekend and represent the target audience because you know..we have the money to support the game.....not like college students who can play 10 hrs per day -The structures to enjoy the game with your friends are there...but you insist that the game should be modified to suit your need...even if that come at the expenses of others....you won't find sympathy here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 21, 2018 Author Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > > > @"Nova.3817" im sorry for your loss, but see- case in point. removing team queue caused a mass exodus. we have hit 300+ people in this thread alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here’s something fun to think about: > > > > > > > > > > > > **the solo queue poll was absolutely inane.** > > > > > > > > > > > > why? because those who voted for solo queue were doing so based on a belief that arena net knew to be false. that premades farmed PUGs in ranked, when in reality (as anet revealed to us) premades actually lost more than they won when facing non-premades. > > > > > > > > > > > > so people were voting with the intention of fixing an issue that only existed in their minds. which is not something arenanet should have entertained, because as one could plainly see, removing team play in a team game is going to have a negative effect on the population. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that people who like to play multiplayer games together, like to play multiplayer games together. so making your game into something they no longer want to play, is going to result in them no longer playing your game. so a population decline was to be expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > the result of the poll was a lose lose for everyone. it resulted in a huge playerbase decline (something that continues to this day), & a vast decrease in match quality (due to lower pop, & the fact that many people who play on teams are more adept at teamplay tactics than the average solo player), plus it killed all the pvp guilds which were very important for community quality. sure, the deluded solo queuer will claim that match quality went up because they were no longer being farmed by premades, but since this wasn’t happening there was actually no improvement in actual game quality (in fact, i would argue it’s become much worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, now the solo queue player will argue it’s better now because they don’t lose to premades, but they are still just as salty. it’s just that now they complain about bad matchmaking & a small, declining population (symptoms of removing team queue). so they are no happier than before. i would even argue that there in a much worse place because low pop, is causing big matchmaking issues which are real, whereas the premades farming solos was a fiction used to excuse lost games & prop up their fragile egos. > > > > > > > > > > > > the move to solo queue was a loss for everyone involved, both devs & players- & arenanet should have known this would be the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i just cant fathom why they did the vote- why, as a dev you would let your community vote to change a huge element of your game, when you know the vast majority are voting based on false beliefs (that premades were farming, & solo queue would improve match quality). it just doesn’t make any sense. why would you let people vote on something when you know they are wrong? especially when you know it’s going to result in population decline. > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because premade must fight other premade! Nobody cares about the winning ratio of the premades.....it's simply unfair to reach victory when playing with friends on voice chat while facing a bunch of randoms put together by a squabbling matchmaker based on the highest MMR player. > > > > > > > > > > You want premades to avoid the discomfort of playing with random player...but you're happy for others feeling that discomfort....real sportmanship ladies and gentlemen > > > > > > > > I don't think he is saying that it is "fair" i think he is saying the reason the population is dwindling is because players returned to spvp on a daily basis to play with friends that no longer exists and so therefore the population is in decline i think the argument is when given the choice between 2 evils gw2 chose the wrong one bc the negative effects were worse.....at the end of the day the solo player who felt jaded that he couldn't win vs a premade could make a premade of his own and guess what that brought more players to spvp...which would bring more and more......that's his argument not that it was competitive gw2 failed as a competitive outlet. my .02 > > > > > > > > > > It worked that way in GW1 , it worked quite well...but anet aggressively removed the system to avoid alienate the super casual....funny enough they then introduced raid lol > > > > in gw1 all anyone ever did in pvp was sync RA so they could play there 10 games together rinse repeat...... gvg was a team only mode so was HA i played gw1 since release for 10 years almost lol..... if you wanted a system like gw1 then in gw2 if you win a match you would stay with that winning team and thus we would then again be in the age of sync....lol and i def dont qualify that as "worked" in gw2 it was just random pairings regardless of skill...yea lets put that in gw2 lol > > > > The same people who asked for team queue were against team ranked mode separated from soloq with the reasoning : " not enough players to have both, not enough teams"...then they come saying :" team queue is needed to increase population". > > Nobody is against team queue...people are against this hypocrisy , teams should play only vs other teams...it's called common sense Teams against PUGS seems really bad. I mean a dedicated team on voice comms with some skill **should** shred up a pug even if they are of decent skill. Of course that may not have always been the case. At lower levels, and perhaps even for the bottom 100 or so of the leaderboard a pug could still prevail. The real problem would come from the best of the best being on the absolute top spots. An elite pug without voice comms **probably** could not prevail against top 50 players in a premade. When I was growing up I always heard you can't out run the radio. So yes teams against non-teams would matter. However, there does appear to be some correlation with teams going away and pvp population decline. **Now there are tournaments, but from my own observation, they seem to be dominated by the same few teams.** # Why is that? Here are a few possibilities: 1. They are simply the best. 2. Everyone else is playing with their feet. 3. The timing of tournaments does not cater to everyone's schedule. 4. Tournaments are not rewarding enough for the players who don't take the cup. # Okay, and some pseudo responses to those possibilities: 1. Well, see that is why we can not have teams in ranked, those same few teams will hold all the top spots on the leaderboard. There is your proof. 2. I play with my knees and ankles. Noobs. But seriously some people play with their feet, so don't joke about that. 3. Make time. Quit your job or school and log on, otherwise stop complaining. 4. I thought it was for glory, and fun. Don't be a hypocrite now. Is it glory or gold? # The intermingling of pugs and teams, may ruin ranked. **Possible solutions** : * Increase the amount of tournaments/interval * Introduce a tournament league, perhaps even allowing teams to register for a schedule of games, and even have playoffs. * Introduce real guild battles, and/or leagues. This is Guild Wars 2, not WoW 2. * Introduce team leagues next season. A third option in the pane. Teams will wait for other teams no matter what. It won't take away from the population because supposedly 90% of players solo q. No need to force the other 10%, let them have their fun. But is team play lacking the only reason. Not season to season class favoritism, over-nerving, over-buffing, and the **GLACIAL PACE** @Vagrant.7206 of balance? SPAM fiesta, DOWN fiesta, INSTACAST fiesta, dun dun dun dun can't touch this fiesta. First the fiesta, now the siesta...fiesta /bow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 as far as I'm concerned this situation is about damage control for anet. concepts of fairness and sportsmanship are hardly relevant, as one would have to make the claim that removing teams has resulted in a more fair matchmaking system and better sportsmanship. however, you can't make this claim without being laughed out of the room. the rampant win trading, even more frequent afking and exploiting surely shows that if anything, the quality of sportsmanship has dropped. as for match quality, just as many other players in this thread and in game can attest, the current low population causes huge matchmaking issues. the question is, do they have any interest in trying to get back the thousands of players they drove away by removing team queue? do they want to try and grow community and population? or do they just want to cater to people who play alone, behave antisocially, don't bring any new players into pvp, and do nothing to increase player retention. because as we can plainly see, that causes the population to decline both in numbers and quality. **so I would wonder, I would ask is that the goal? is that your desire, oh solo queuer, oh anet dev is that want you want? a small salty community that shrinks by the day? is this what you're after baby?** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Nova.3817" said: > > This Thread is getting about where it always gets......one side petitions for fun with friends.... the other guy wants to be in a house full of loners bc he cant be bothered to make friends or join a guild in "guild" wars 2..... this is exactly why i left and i dont think there is any hope for change best of luck to you all still holding out! > > Unfortunately for you people can read quite clearly....nobody here stopping you from having fun with your friend and Anet gave you plenty of tools to do so with big juicy rewards....now people will have a problem if your idea fun imply kitten on their pvp experience. You can turn around the argument all you want but...you cannot change the logic process here, you contradict yourself at every turn: > > -You don't have time to wait 6 hrs for tournies.....but you're the one playing the most compared to the "loners" who have 40-50 hrs job and play only weekend and represent the target audience because you know..we have the money to support the game.....not like college students who can play 10 hrs per day > -The structures to enjoy the game with your friends are there...but you insist that the game should be modified to suit your need...even if that come at the expenses of others....you won't find sympathy here He's got my sympathy because like many others, we're in the same boat here. When you made your point, did you stop to remember that was us before the change? No one was stopping **you** from playing with your friends, but **you** stopped us from playing with ours. **You** kitten'ed our PvP experience. The structures to enjoy the game with your friends were there, but the "loners" as you say insisted that the game should be modified to suit their needs, even if it came at the expense of others. See how that applies to everyone who liked team queue before it was changed? I have to ask about the loner thing because I may be misreading it, are you implying the ones with jobs who support the game are loners who don't play with anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applesauce.5271 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Game's called Guild Wars but won't let us pvp with our guilds. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Applesauce.5271" said: > Game's called Guild Wars but won't let us pvp with our guilds. GG GG Wars 2 uninstall.exe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 i feel like i have another point to add, as community contribution has been brought up earlier. i feel it would do good for me to compare the impact of both the solo queue loner, & the pvp guild team player. as by doing so, it’s rather obvious which group anet should cater to. **so, the solo queue loner- what do they do for gw2 pvp?** 1. they buy the game, & perhaps the expansions too. this is a potential three box sales. 2. they play the game. 3. they may buy gems. **now, lets look at the team queuer who is in a pvp guild** 1. they buy the game, & perhaps the expansions too. this is a potential three box sales. 2. they play the game. 3. they may buy gems. 4. they may recommend the game to non-players resulting in further box sales & community growth. 5. they recruit players for pvp, & for their guild. 6. they encourage guild members, creating a positive environment. 7. they teach guild members, resulting in a more skilled community. 8. they create a community. so one can see plainly that the solo player does very little for the community. they don’t sell more copies of the game, nor do they bring in players from other gamemodes. they don’t encourage & teach, things that result in players who would have otherwise left staying. they don’t create a community that makes people come back to pvp, & keep playing. the only impact they can have is by afking or being toxic in chat, both of which drive away players & are bad for the community. the solo queue player does nothing to increase player retention, & nothing to bring in new players. they do nothing for the community, because they are **antisocial**. they are anti community. as we all have seen, there has been a large drop in both population & community quality since the removal of team queue. one could attribute this solely to balance, & of course abominations like scourge have not helped- but to ignore the impact of removing teams is ridiculous. not only as it flys in the face of logic, but also ignores evidence. in this thread alone, we have people on record saying that the removal of team queue resulted in guilds leaving the game, we are looking at a minimum of 300 people in this thread alone. one could easily & sensibly extrapolate, that the real number is in the thousands. now, the solo player may reply that this is a good thing. that those thousands of players who quit were bad for the community, that they were ruining it. ah, but this is a foolish & harmful notion. for they ignore two important things. the first is that the population decline has does not seem to be ceasing, and that the quality of matchmaking has suffered tremendously because of the drop in population. the second being that now the playerbase is made up of players who neither help with player retention, nor do they recruit more players into the gamemode. so i would ask, how is the downward spiral of population & community quality going to be stopped? how is the community to grow? i would think that seeing how poor balance & catering to antisocial players who do nothing for the community created our current problem, the answer would lie in the inverse. but, oh mayhap i am wrong & this solo queue era is truly the most competitive & healthy the community has ever been- ah but somehow, just somehow i can’t quite see this being the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch.4810 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I will chime in as well, being a mature (read: old) gamer with regular job, that plays around 1-2 hours most days...so yea, filthy casual :pensive: I have a great and big guild, we have a lot of active PvP-ers, i got dragged into one tournament with them. Tournament was great experience, playing with my crew. We got stomped, but no one was salty - since it's a guild group, there was no attacking "weak link" in team comp and such, we also coordinated builds.. I'ts been 3 weeks since that, and we cant "click" with our schedules to repeat the experience. I would love to see more frequent tournaments! Also, i would love to see 5man premade option for regular ranked, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 A shrinking population just means there aren't any new players being brought in. I have a lot of friends that enjoy pvp in mmos, but will not play gw2. Many have tried it but then decided to play something else. When I ask them why its generally the same response: * Downed in about a second and they have no idea what happened * Toxicity * Tons of visual clutter * Too much pressure in conquest mode I can't say that I blame them. GW2 is not a fair pvp game. If I was a new player and never invested much time into this game, I'd choose to play something else that is more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos.7460 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 simple most good skilled ppl are gone and the pvp is filled with low skill ppl that explains the low tier rating of each of us, we cant carry our hole team to win so we stuck into gold and platin ... I miss team up with 5 ppl and ts... they should bring this back .... you have to make friends to win macthes but this scene has grown into a solo game because ppl just dont get over their big ego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogba.6204 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 It's probably one of the most toxic pvp environments I have encountered over tons of games so far. I put up with almost a decade of League of Legends and the "fire and block" amount of insults thrown around combined with the terrible balance and general state of pvp just make the mode unenjoyable in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Aza.2105" said: > A shrinking population just means there aren't any new players being brought in. I have a lot of friends that enjoy pvp in mmos, but will not play gw2. Many have tried it but then decided to play something else. When I ask them why its generally the same response: > > * Downed in about a second and they have no idea what happened > > * Toxicity > > * Tons of visual clutter > > * Too much pressure in conquest mode > > I can't say that I blame them. GW2 is not a fair pvp game. If I was a new player and never invested much time into this game, I'd choose to play something else that is more competitive. > It was a fair pvp game before the 15th June patch, then what was left got destroyed when the only 2 experienced devs left and the game fallen in total ruin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now