How would an easy mode raid work - VG

[Sephylon.4938]

The purpose of this is to give a simplified version of vg to serve as a means to practice mechanics, to get your feet wet so to speak, as others have asked before. Any ideas are welcomed, just please separate yourselves from your ideas, and criticize the idea not the person. We will not discuss rewards here at this time. Once the final draft of how an easy mode vg plays, then we can discuss rewards.

 

Some previously discussed suggestions can be found at:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465220#Comment_465220

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465503#Comment_465503

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465538#Comment_465538

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465611#Comment_465611

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465742#Comment_465742

 

Tl:DR

 

Add more options to the training golem to either spawn mechanics of bosses, or to spawn a raid boss by warping the group into a training instance where they can freely practice a predetermined set of mechanic(s).

Raid version of Mist Potions.

Ensure that mechanics can not overlap (blues can not spawn on a location that green has spawned)

Scaling mechanics based on present numbers

 

Greens take longer to detonate in easy mode

Greens are now less frequent

Greens have a wider radius in easy mode

Greens have a fixed spawn location in easy mode

Greens have reduced number of people required in easy mode

Greens have reduced damage, damage has been moved to boss' auto to make that the threat over the mechanic

Greens give people that do them a buff (offensive or defensive, either/or, both, or 1 of the two at random)

 

Blues do not teleport, damage has been increased to compensate

Blues now take longer to detonate

Blues are now less frequent

Reduce the distance that blues teleport people

Blues are now louder and drown out all other noises

 

Red orbs have reduced radius

Red orbs have reduced damage, boss' damage increased to make it a threat instead of this mechanic

 

Marker to visually signal who is the tank

Marker to visually signal who is being hunted by seekers

Bullet hell removed from encounter

number of bullets in the encounter is reduced, damage per bullet increased, or boss damage increased to make it the main threat of the encounter instead of mechanics

 

Bullet storm (vg's break bar) damage reduced, either by reducing the damage of the bullets, or reducing the break bar

 

Raids as a whole: Introduce a version of mistlock singularity in raids by adding it to masteries that gives players shield that can prevent death 1 or more times depending on masteries learned.

 

Updates:

Improve pre event of vg to be more reflective of the fight (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/495656#Comment_495656)

Create npc shout outs for mechanics (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/495109#Comment_495109, https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/profile/comments/41345/Shikaru.7618)

Create check points on certain hp % that the group will restart on should they wipe (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/profile/comments/41345/Shikaru.7618)

An in game npc that provides information on how and/or where to start raiding.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> The purpose of this is to give a simplified version of vg to serve as a means to practice mechanics, to get your feet wet so to speak, as others have asked before. Any ideas are welcomed, just please separate yourselves from your ideas, and criticize the idea not the person. We will not discuss rewards here at this time. Once the final draft of how an easy mode vg plays, then we can discuss rewards.

>

> Some previously discussed suggestions can be found at:

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465220#Comment_465220

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465503#Comment_465503

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465538#Comment_465538

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465611#Comment_465611

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465742#Comment_465742

>

> Tl:DR

> Greens take longer to detonate in easy mode

> Greens are now less frequent

> Greens have a wider radius in easy mode

> Greens have a fixed spawn location in easy mode

> Greens have reduced number of people required in easy mode

> Greens have reduced damage, damage has been moved to boss' auto to make that the threat over the mechanic

>

> Blues do not teleport, damage has been increased to compensate

> Blues now take longer to detonate

> Blues are now less frequent

> Blues have reduced radius for teleporting people

> Blues are now louder and drown out all other noises

>

> Red orbs have reduced radius

> Red orbs have reduced damage, boss' damage increased to make it a threat instead of this mechanic

>

> Bullet hell removed from encounter

> number of bullets in the encounter is reduced, damage per bullet increased, or boss damage increased to make it the main threat of the encounter instead of mechanics

>

> Bullet storm (vg's break bar) damage reduced, either by reducing the damage of the bullets, or reducing the break bar

>

> Raids as a whole: Introduce a version of mistlock singularity in raids by adding it to masteries that gives players shield that can prevent death 1 or more times depending on masteries learned.

 

I was also thinking that maybe those who did greens could some sort damage buff or maybe a damage reduced buff. Teach by positive re-enforcement.

 

Maybe have the reds be easier to kill.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > The purpose of this is to give a simplified version of vg to serve as a means to practice mechanics, to get your feet wet so to speak, as others have asked before. Any ideas are welcomed, just please separate yourselves from your ideas, and criticize the idea not the person. We will not discuss rewards here at this time. Once the final draft of how an easy mode vg plays, then we can discuss rewards.

> >

> > Some previously discussed suggestions can be found at:

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465220#Comment_465220

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465503#Comment_465503

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465538#Comment_465538

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465611#Comment_465611

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/465742#Comment_465742

> >

> > Tl:DR

> > Greens take longer to detonate in easy mode

> > Greens are now less frequent

> > Greens have a wider radius in easy mode

> > Greens have a fixed spawn location in easy mode

> > Greens have reduced number of people required in easy mode

> > Greens have reduced damage, damage has been moved to boss' auto to make that the threat over the mechanic

> >

> > Blues do not teleport, damage has been increased to compensate

> > Blues now take longer to detonate

> > Blues are now less frequent

> > Blues have reduced radius for teleporting people

> > Blues are now louder and drown out all other noises

> >

> > Red orbs have reduced radius

> > Red orbs have reduced damage, boss' damage increased to make it a threat instead of this mechanic

> >

> > Bullet hell removed from encounter

> > number of bullets in the encounter is reduced, damage per bullet increased, or boss damage increased to make it the main threat of the encounter instead of mechanics

> >

> > Bullet storm (vg's break bar) damage reduced, either by reducing the damage of the bullets, or reducing the break bar

> >

> > Raids as a whole: Introduce a version of mistlock singularity in raids by adding it to masteries that gives players shield that can prevent death 1 or more times depending on masteries learned.

>

> I was also thinking that maybe those who did greens could some sort damage buff or maybe a damage reduced buff. Teach by positive re-enforcement.

>

> Maybe have the reds be easier to kill.

 

added to top. Just to clarify, these are all the suggestions I've collected when I asked this question in the past. I'm not saying do them all, instead I'm asking which of these suggestions, or combinations of them, do you believe would be productive to introduce to an easy mode given the goal of familiarizing people with the mechanics?

[Tyson.5160]

I think with Raids you need a layering effect. As in ok I have to do greens, they have both a postivive and negative side. Really if you didn’t ’t want the greens to damage you could make it do a group stun instead, which makes it highly annoying, but teaches the importance of doing greens. Kinda like the break bar during the Mordrem Wyvern. If you break the break bar it makes the fight easier, if not it draws the battle out.

[Talindra.4958]

I join few groups with lower li and also no li request group this week for w1

The one with no li req.. up to 5 ppl gets teleported by blue all the time, very bad CC at last phase. Those with around 100 li are very good clear whole wing in one shot or two.

There's no need for easy vg. All you need is practice

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Well what about if green only spawned in the center? This would still mean that you need to go for them but you need to check only one place. Also if tank failed to move the green would be close from safe zone.

Teleports might teleport you only if you are further away from the boss then some distance - this would encourage players to stack.

And for seekers i would made them spawn less often/less of them.

And i would reduce break bar hitpoints.

I would also either removed enrage timer or made the boss normal mode after enrage.

 

I will not propose changes to rewards since we dont want to drown here and i would suggest for others do the same

 

What do you think?

[Sephylon.4938]

I'm fine with greens downing, just as long as it's more noticeable, easier to get to, and slower to detonate, to get people in the habit of watching out for it so if and when they choose to move into easy mode, they've built that habit and do it by instinct, instead of having to be told to. If a positive reinforcement is introduced in easy mode though, would it not also need to be present in harder variants?

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> I join few groups with lower like and also no li request group this week for w1

> The one with no longer req.. up to 5 ppl gets teleported by blue all the time. Those with around 100 low li are very good clear whole wing in one shot or two.

> There's no need for easy vg. All you need is practice

 

Talindra this thread is about easy mode by vg.

[Talindra.4958]

I'm saying there is no need easy mode by vg. It's already easy mode and the BEST boss in all raid to learn how to raid in group environment

[Tyson.5160]

That’s the purpose of this topic. If you have some ideas or insight then you are welcome to share, however if you just here to derail things, then post in different thread please.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> I'm fine with greens downing, just as long as it's more noticeable, easier to get to, and slower to detonate, to get people in the habit of watching out for it so if and when they choose to move into easy mode, they've built that habit and do it by instinct, instead of having to be told to. If a positive reinforcement is introduced in easy mode though, would it not also need to be present in harder variants?

 

I don’t see an issue with not getting the buff in normal mode. It kinda gives easy mode a unique flavour.

 

[Sephylon.4938]

For some, but would you not agree that there are other people put there who will benefit from this, either by having their confidence built up, or by being able to take things in a slower pace than normal mode?

[Malediktus.9250]

Sounds pointless to me. With your suggestion you might as well delete all mechanics from vg

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Better remove greens and blue and make it like good old core days

[Tyson.5160]

And here we go again.

 

Everyone itching for a fight or something?

[Tyson.5160]

I don’t mind the teleporting portion myself, as long as it doesn’t do damage. I think the splitting of the party should still remain though. Maybe reduce the projectiles and damage if the bullet hell.

 

It would be interesting if only one portion of the floor change rather then two or you could have one that does damage one area that isn’t lit up and the third could damage the boss.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

A few Key points that need to be stated since this is Anet’s Stance on the Matter:

 

Crystal Reid:

 

“In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

 

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.”

 

“Tier systems for Raids come up a lot as a result of what Fractals did. I worked on the original Fractals team and a tiered system with increased difficulty scaling was always part of the original plan for that team. It was never a plan for Raids. They are, and should remain, the most difficult content in the game.

 

Accessibility in terms of difficulty is something we talk a lot about internally. We’ve made efforts to help players get in by delivering entry level encounters that ease you into the content (STK)”

 

So from these posts we can see their clear intent on Raid Difficulty.

[Sephylon.4938]

Might I ask to remain civil please. As stated, what's being attacked is the idea, not you as a person and I would appreciate it if it remained as such. While it may be easy to get into raiding for some, there are others who voice their discontent as what they feel to be a barrier. Allowing for an easier version of raids is one solution that I think would be most beneficial to those people, though I am open to other ideas on such, but for now the topic is as such: how should an easy mode vg, with the goal of teaching those who feel that normal mode will not support them, play like?

[ReaverKane.7598]

Some of those, like blues being louder are not really easy mode things, but actual QoL stuff that they should have fixed already.

Their inability to make enemy attacks visible in the middle of the visual and auditory clutter is a problem of their own making, not a matter of difficulty, just poor implementation.

 

All said, i think that anyone wanting to get their feet wet in raids, can already start with Escort.

If people want to practice a particular boss (and honestly VG is without the doubt the encounter that spends the most time teaching you its mechanics), i'd rather they added the ability for people to make the golem in the training area behave like a particular boss, or even just spawn the boss itself (maybe add some transparency and tint it purple to make it seem like an hologram), or just transport players to a practice version of the raid arena with the console somewhere in the area, and allow stuff like players never get below 0 health, so they can feel the hits when they mess up, but don't die; infinite buffs as the current option already allows; immortal boss, so you can do mechanics on repeat; etc. This not only allows people to practice the mechanics, but allows veterans and speed-runners to set theoretical best times, where everyone has max buffs and no one is dying.

 

You get no rewards, you just do it for the practice.

Problem solved.

[derd.6413]

the reason ppl are having trouble getting into raids is mostly that alot of ppl that pug them aren't interested in learning the encounter they only want loot for no effort so the only way to learn a raid is to do it with friends/guildies which isn't easy to organize for everybody.

and most ppl complaining are the "loot for no effort"-crowed.

 

i think the way to lessen this issue without dumbing down raids is to allow golem to emulate more mechanics in such a way that you can "learn" an encounter on your own. but what really needs to happen is a mentality shift in the community.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Some of those, like blues being louder are not really easy mode things, but actual QoL stuff that they should have fixed already.

> Their inability to make enemy attacks visible in the middle of the visual and auditory clutter is a problem of their own making, not a matter of difficulty, just poor implementation.

>

> All said, i think that anyone wanting to get their feet wet in raids, can already start with Escort.

> If people want to practice a particular boss (and honestly VG is without the doubt the encounter that spends the most time teaching you its mechanics), i'd rather they added the ability for people to make the golem in the training area behave like a particular boss, or even just spawn the boss itself (maybe add some transparency and tint it purple to make it seem like an hologram), or just transport players to a practice version of the raid arena with the console somewhere in the area, and allow stuff like players never get below 0 health, so they can feel the hits when they mess up, but don't die, etc.

>

> You get no rewards, you just do it for the practice.

> Problem solved.

 

That is an interesting way to tackle it, I'll add it to the 1st post.

[Tyson.5160]

What could also happen to really break the fight up is to have the red orbs on phase 1 and then split phase, the blues on phase 2 and then have the greens on phase 3 of the fight.

 

Another thought could start with the red for phase 1. Add red and blue for phase 2 and then all 3 for phase 3.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> What could also happen to really break the fight up is to have the red orbs on phase 1 and then split phase, the blues on phase 2 and then have the greens on phase 3 of the fight.

>

> Another thought could start with the red for phase 1. Add red and blue for phase 2 and then all 3 for phase 3.

 

Technically this already happens during the prefight (albeit at random instead of a set rotation), but it often ends too quickly to be of any real significance. Perhaps if they upped the time spent on the pre boss fights to serve a better training for the real thing?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Raids are Hard?

[Sephylon.4938]

For some they are.

 

updated original post with more things.