Dodging is no longer has any significant impact.

[Zelulose.8695]

Dodging has lost its value due to the constant stream of attacks. Look at games like super smash bro's. Dodging in this game can be done to perfectly avoid damage in SSBM because the attacks are not a continuous stream. When Gw2 first began, dodging had more of an impact because there were skills or combos that did allot but went on cool-down. These skills could not be replaced by a rotatable set of alternate combos that resemble spam. Now Gw2 suffers from rotation based gameplay where skills are used so consistently that dodging one 10k just means you take another 10k unless you are a mesmer with their block rotation. Instead dodges are used to fill holes in defense rotation to make a character's defense as spam-able as the enemies offense.

[Alatar.7364]

Most of the times in this meta, yes.

Yet if you play a Thief than you might know that it takes only one or two random dodges or one well timed dodge and your Thief burst goes to hell.

So Thief can still be perfectly avoided by dodging while not having option to effectively dodge dmg itself. And no, Flanking Strike ain't going to do s**** in all those AoEs.

[Ithilwen.1529]

The OP makes a good point. Though I don't agree with the implied attack on Mesmer.

[Zelulose.8695]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> Most of the times in this meta, yes.

> Yet if you play a Thief than you might know that it takes only one or two random dodges or one well timed dodge and your Thief burst goes to hell.

> So Thief can still be perfectly avoided by dodging while not having option to effectively dodge dmg itself. And no, Flanking Strike ain't going to do s**** in all those AoEs.

 

This applies for some thief builds but there are others that can continue spamming damage pretty consistently like condition builds. I agree that dodging punishes power thief such as staff thief. However, the class itself follows what I said about a spam-able dodge. Staff thief can dodge uncontrollably. There is spam-able thief dodges to deal with spam-able incoming damage. I do think many players in pvp are sick of having to deal with spam-able defense and offense. Games that balance this like ssbm or LOL with longer cool-downs tend to do better in pvp. This also applies to pve ironically as the bosses in game require less skilled timing due to constant defense and more spam-able damage due to large hp pools.

[The Night Fox.6018]

The language is confusing here. When we talk about game mechanics it's best to leave the sensationalism aside. Dodging does have a "significant impact". I would describe something such as ranger's spirits receiving a hp buff as not having "significant impact" because no one uses them for good reason. EVERYONE uses dodges. You have not described a situation where it does not have a "significant impact", only describing it as a "defense rotation."

 

GW2 from the start has always been about rotation. Hell, even GW1. The trick is when you have 5 players, all different rotations turning at the same time, against 5 others with the same idea, but now you have the ability to learn, adapt, interrupt, avoid, and attack at the right moments to come on top. Dodging is simple in its existence, but plays a critical role in how we fight each class.

 

The decision to use a dodge can be fatal, but it could also be life saving. No good player dodges without thought, and they easily wind up dead or driven away by a more confident player.

 

If I count a class dodging twice in quick succession, they are prepared to receive righteous fire and judgment from my dps, but if they save one dodge, I play cautiously.

 

The impact of a dodge is still there and vital for threats oncoming or yet to be cast. I do not believe slowing combat would be a good idea to increase the potential damage avoided from dodges.

[pah.4931]

Good point. I don't really notice when things get dodged because I got plenty of tools ready to go. As a self-aware player, one of the things I'd like to get better at is dodging at the right times... but, to the OP's point, it doesn't really matter as much as it used to so it's hard to get better at it lol

 

Dodge is one of the reasons why Holo is such a well designed class (even if numbers were/are off). Well telegraphed, but powerful abilities.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

I think you have a valid point, but I also disagree. I have had so many battles turn in my favor because of good dodging on my part, and I have also lost battles because of poorly timed dodges. It is still a supremely important mechanic to combat.

[Dralor.3701]

Too much offensive spam and also too many classes with tons of evades/invulns.

[Blimm.5028]

This so much. The main thing I loved about PvP back in the day was how you could count dodges, take vigour into account etc to time your spike. Dodge the Warriors shield bash into eviscerate combo and you got yourself some breathing room. The way it works right now makes playing spike builds very RNGish, since you are basically gambling.

 

The fact that they added the evade stance to weaver really pissed me off. It used to be S/D's thing to have loads of iframes, forcing you to play differently. Now everyone and their mother is an S/D thief.

 

I'm pretty convinced that reducing iframe uptime and increasing cooldowns on non spike based specs would make the game much, much more skill based and competitively interesting.

[witcher.3197]

Definitely this. Back then we used dodges to avoid dangerous skills, now we just dodge to avoid spam damage in a sense that if you're facetanking for 1 second you're dead. It doesn't matter that you dodged a 15k burst, the next is already on the way especially in teamfights.

[coro.3176]

I'm only annoyed by skills I have to dodge twice in a row - eg. Rapid Fire, Unrelenting Assault, etc.

 

Those are annoying cause they do so much damage per hit that you can't afford to tank half the skill, but they last so long one dodge isn't enough.

[Dralor.3701]

> @"coro.3176" said:

> I'm only annoyed by skills I have to dodge twice in a row - eg. Rapid Fire, Unrelenting Assault, etc.

>

> Those are annoying cause they do so much damage per hit that you can't afford to tank half the skill, but they last so long one dodge isn't enough.

 

They don’t really do anymore damage than the constant spikes people have mentioned above.

 

[coro.3176]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > @"coro.3176" said:

> > I'm only annoyed by skills I have to dodge twice in a row - eg. Rapid Fire, Unrelenting Assault, etc.

> >

> > Those are annoying cause they do so much damage per hit that you can't afford to tank half the skill, but they last so long one dodge isn't enough.

>

> They don’t really do anymore damage than the constant spikes people have mentioned above.

>

 

But they do enough damage that you can't afford to tank half of them. That's the point. If I dodge a 15k DJ or a 10k Vault or whatever, it's dodged. If I dodge half a Rapid Fire or UA, I'm still taking 7-10k damage.

[Dralor.3701]

I think the arguement here would be even if you dodge the 10k vault it’s going to be followed by four more. Channeled skills have always been worse as they are subject to being interrupted.

 

Everything does too much damage. :/

[Alatar.7364]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> I think the arguement here would be even if you dodge the 10k vault it’s going to be followed by four more. Channeled skills have always been worse as they are subject to being interrupted.

>

> Everything does too much damage. :/

 

Not sure if sarcasm or not so I am just going to react as if it was not.

1) Thief doesn't have 30 Initiative pool, it has 12 Ini, 15 with Trickery. That's Two Vaults and Thief is done.

2) Vault is a Channeled skill.

[choovanski.5462]

> @"Blimm.5028" said:

> This so much. The main thing I loved about PvP back in the day was how you could count dodges, take vigour into account etc to time your spike. Dodge the Warriors shield bash into eviscerate combo and you got yourself some breathing room. The way it works right now makes playing spike builds very RNGish, since you are basically gambling.

>

oh man... this really used to be such a good game. remember when big slow telegraphed things like warrior hammer were in meta? good times. good times :'(

[Dralor.3701]

Sorry I should have been more general instead of naming a skill...

 

There are so many attacks that can deal that much damage I don’t see how the damage of a rapid fire (or similar) is out of control.

[Ario.8964]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> The OP makes a good point. Though I don't agree with the implied attack on Mesmer.

 

You don't agree with anything that reflects negatively on mesmer. The fact of the matter is the example OP used mesmer for was correct. They have insane chains of available defenses making them near unbeatable in a direct 1v1 if the player knows even remotely how to chain their skills.

 

That being said,

This post is 100% correct. And the counter effect to that if we don't fight against the spam will be permanently chainable defenses to respond to the permanently chainable offense. Only way to fix this kind of situation is to increase cds, reduce damage, reduce defenses, and reduce base effects of all skills (especially aoes) for all classes. Every class has gotten a ton of powercreeped stuff over the years and man does it show now if you go back and look at old tournies on youtube.

[Highlie.7641]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > The OP makes a good point. Though I don't agree with the implied attack on Mesmer.

>

> You don't agree with anything that reflects negatively on mesmer. The fact of the matter is the example OP used mesmer for was correct. They have insane chains of available defenses making them near unbeatable in a direct 1v1 if the player knows even remotely how to chain their skills.

>

> That being said,

> This post is 100% correct. And the counter effect to that if we don't fight against the spam will be permanently chainable defenses to respond to the permanently chainable offense. Only way to fix this kind of situation is to increase cds, reduce damage, reduce defenses, and reduce base effects of all skills (especially aoes) for all classes. Every class has gotten a ton of powercreeped stuff over the years and man does it show now if you go back and look at old tournies on youtube.

 

This post is good. I know it will never happen but they really need to go back and add 2 traitlines per elite spec, and then remove the ability to use Core traits, i don't think they will every be able to balance properly if they don't. When you have one profession that starts off with a ton of sustain*, and then increase damage it starts to invalidate other specs, who in turn have to be power creeped to catch up. it's been a vicious circle since HOT

 

*you can swap sustain for burst.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > The OP makes a good point. Though I don't agree with the implied attack on Mesmer.

>

> You don't agree with anything that reflects negatively on mesmer. The fact of the matter is the example OP used mesmer for was correct. They have insane chains of available defenses making them near unbeatable in a direct 1v1 if the player knows even remotely how to chain their skills.

>

> That being said,

> This post is 100% correct. And the counter effect to that if we don't fight against the spam will be permanently chainable defenses to respond to the permanently chainable offense. Only way to fix this kind of situation is to increase cds, reduce damage, reduce defenses, and reduce base effects of all skills (especially aoes) for all classes. Every class has gotten a ton of powercreeped stuff over the years and man does it show now if you go back and look at old tournies on youtube.

 

If that is so... it is a reaction to going , literally, years being under powered after the massive glamour nerf. Then I saw Chronomancer cut down severely and alacrity given to another class.. I fully expect similar to happen to Mirage.. which is why I won't play it. I don't want to go through that stress and disappointment again.

 

So I play a spec already underpowered, hoping ANET won't cut it back too hard..

[allias.1420]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"Ario.8964" said:

> > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > The OP makes a good point. Though I don't agree with the implied attack on Mesmer.

> >

> > You don't agree with anything that reflects negatively on mesmer. The fact of the matter is the example OP used mesmer for was correct. They have insane chains of available defenses making them near unbeatable in a direct 1v1 if the player knows even remotely how to chain their skills.

> >

> > That being said,

> > This post is 100% correct. And the counter effect to that if we don't fight against the spam will be permanently chainable defenses to respond to the permanently chainable offense. Only way to fix this kind of situation is to increase cds, reduce damage, reduce defenses, and reduce base effects of all skills (especially aoes) for all classes. Every class has gotten a ton of powercreeped stuff over the years and man does it show now if you go back and look at old tournies on youtube.

>

> If that is so... it is a reaction to going , literally, years being under powered after the massive glamour nerf. Then I saw Chronomancer cut down severely and alacrity given to another class.. I fully expect similar to happen to Mirage.. which is why I won't play it. I don't want to go through that stress and disappointment again.

>

> So I play a spec already underpowered, hoping ANET won't cut it back too hard..

 

"already underpowered"

 

 

lol

[Eme.2018]

> @"Zelulose.8695" said:

> Dodging has lost its value due to the constant stream of attacks.

And partly due to the condi bursts. Can't dodge the condi bursts

 

 

[bLind.6278]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> already underpowered,

 

lol

 

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yeah dodging is so last year

facetqank mta all da wei

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"allias.1420" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > @"Ario.8964" said:

> > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > > The OP makes a good point. Though I don't agree with the implied attack on Mesmer.

> > >

> > > You don't agree with anything that reflects negatively on mesmer. The fact of the matter is the example OP used mesmer for was correct. They have insane chains of available defenses making them near unbeatable in a direct 1v1 if the player knows even remotely how to chain their skills.

> > >

> > > That being said,

> > > This post is 100% correct. And the counter effect to that if we don't fight against the spam will be permanently chainable defenses to respond to the permanently chainable offense. Only way to fix this kind of situation is to increase cds, reduce damage, reduce defenses, and reduce base effects of all skills (especially aoes) for all classes. Every class has gotten a ton of powercreeped stuff over the years and man does it show now if you go back and look at old tournies on youtube.

> >

> > If that is so... it is a reaction to going , literally, years being under powered after the massive glamour nerf. Then I saw Chronomancer cut down severely and alacrity given to another class.. I fully expect similar to happen to Mirage.. which is why I won't play it. I don't want to go through that stress and disappointment again.

> >

> > So I play a spec already underpowered, hoping ANET won't cut it back too hard..

>

> "already underpowered"

>

>

> lol

 

Yes, the spec I play is underpowered. PU Mesmer.