Anet : The Meteor Shower Nerf is a shame (60% DPS Nerf in PvE vs single target)

[VanWilder.6923]

How wonderful Elementalist's Weaver is!

- Hard rotation

- Suck CC

- Bad at remove condition

- Lack of mobility, running like carrying 200kg bag. Slowest profession of all

- Stand still to cast spell or Meteror Show and it takes long enough to be killed by mobs or it will be cancelled.

- Surprisingly low health

- Now reduced dmg of that slow skill casting.

 

Even the Harpie in Fractal Tier 4 can kill elementalist with 2 shots. Not even Veteran one, just normal Harpie

Great! That is how I LIKE MY ELEMENTALIST is. Thanks

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Cregath.7628" said:

> tldr: Large Hitbox Single Target DPS is nerfed (and with good reason), Smaller Hitbox Single Target should stay the same. We also learned that Staff Weaver has more than 2 attunements!

 

If you were playing it in 2 attunements, you were playing it wrong. The rotation isn't changed much, and the used attunements aren't changed *at all*.

[ThiBash.5634]

The main thing that concerns met about the change is the 'incentive to cancel cast'. I feel that it should somehow be worth it to stick out the entire cast. One way of achieving this would be to let Meteor Show start with low dps, then get higher as the effect continues. However, given how GW2 works, with people/npcs moving out of fields, that would really make it worthless. another solution could be to make the damage drop-off less steep, while also decreasing the initial damage. But that would just soften the effect, unless the remaining damage was high enough (which would then mean: more dps to large targets).

 

Large targets and multi-hit damage was something that I agree felt a little off. It caused a huge gap in effectiveness between the various fights. What I don't understand however, is why this wasn't applied to all the other large target skills (like Lightning Storm and Citadel Bombardment). I do not understand why 'hits large target too often' is only an issue for Meteor Shower, and nothing else.

[steki.1478]

> @"Cregath.7628" said:

 

> Also if you think that you "only bring damage" to a team, then that just shows a low level of understanding as to what your class does. You should just maybe... maybe... you know... dip into attunements other than Fire and Earth or something. But maybe that's a too innovative idea. :disappointed:

 

 

Show me a video of you swapping your attunements and contribution to CCing the breakbar before it's is gone. Or even better, a video of you reliably CCing a boss with static field/unsteady ground.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Cregath.7628" said:

>

> > Also if you think that you "only bring damage" to a team, then that just shows a low level of understanding as to what your class does. You should just maybe... maybe... you know... dip into attunements other than Fire and Earth or something. But maybe that's a too innovative idea. :disappointed:

>

>

> Show me a video of you swapping your attunements and contribution to CCing the breakbar before it's is gone. Or even better, a video of you reliably CCing a boss with static field/unsteady ground.

 

Sometimes you have enough time to dual attune air for Gust and/or access Pile Driver which are both decent breakbar damage abilities. However, these cases are rare because not only the boss has to be invulnerable during the breakbar phase to be worth doing it, the phase itself should either be long enough or be followed by another invuln phase. So you could do that on KC, but you shouldn't do it on Xera for instance. You'd lose way too much damage.

[steki.1478]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"Cregath.7628" said:

> >

> > > Also if you think that you "only bring damage" to a team, then that just shows a low level of understanding as to what your class does. You should just maybe... maybe... you know... dip into attunements other than Fire and Earth or something. But maybe that's a too innovative idea. :disappointed:

> >

> >

> > Show me a video of you swapping your attunements and contribution to CCing the breakbar before it's is gone. Or even better, a video of you reliably CCing a boss with static field/unsteady ground.

>

> Sometimes you have enough time to dual attune air for Gust and/or access Pile Driver which are both decent breakbar damage abilities. However, these cases are rare because not only the boss has to be invulnerable during the breakbar phase to be worth doing it, the phase itself should either be long enough or be followed by another invuln phase. So you could do that on KC, but you shouldn't do it on Xera for instance. You'd lose way too much damage.

 

Ye, I know, but all of those cases are irrelevant since nobody is doing damage. It's not a dps loss if you cant do damage so ofc you will swap to cc, but thats limited to kc and sometimes samarog and sloth. CC output is also nowhere close to what holo, dh, slb or warrior can do with their weapon/pet/F5 swap. It's same like saying renegade can use staff to cc and still be among highest dps on big hitbox.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > @"Cregath.7628" said:

> > >

> > > > Also if you think that you "only bring damage" to a team, then that just shows a low level of understanding as to what your class does. You should just maybe... maybe... you know... dip into attunements other than Fire and Earth or something. But maybe that's a too innovative idea. :disappointed:

> > >

> > >

> > > Show me a video of you swapping your attunements and contribution to CCing the breakbar before it's is gone. Or even better, a video of you reliably CCing a boss with static field/unsteady ground.

> >

> > Sometimes you have enough time to dual attune air for Gust and/or access Pile Driver which are both decent breakbar damage abilities. However, these cases are rare because not only the boss has to be invulnerable during the breakbar phase to be worth doing it, the phase itself should either be long enough or be followed by another invuln phase. So you could do that on KC, but you shouldn't do it on Xera for instance. You'd lose way too much damage.

>

> Ye, I know, but all of those cases are irrelevant since nobody is doing damage. It's not a dps loss if you cant do damage so ofc you will swap to cc, but thats limited to kc and sometimes samarog and sloth. CC output is also nowhere close to what holo, dh, slb or warrior can do with their weapon/pet/F5 swap. It's same like saying renegade can use staff to cc and still be among highest dps on big hitbox.

 

Yeah, I agree. I even wouldn't do that on Sam or Sloth. Just putting it there so the people don't think we're not aware of the cc skills. It doesn't matter if you can, in theory, do cc, when it would ruin your damage output. Which is the reason you're in the group in the first place.

[Cregath.7628]

"I only have damage" -> "I know I have CC, but that's DPS loss"

Love you folks! =)

[steki.1478]

> @"Cregath.7628" said:

> "I only have damage" -> "I know I have CC, but that's DPS loss"

> Love you folks! =)

 

8 seconds of not doing damage compared to no downtime on other classes. It's just not worth it during combat since staff cc is pretty low anyways.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

Double AIR 3 and AIR-EARTH 3 ... which is not part of the rotation .... so you need to double attune (which has 3.5 to 4 sec cd before attuning again) ... it's a huge dps loss (unless you're on KC maybe .... MAYBE) and then ppl that doesn't understand shit will say "LOW DPS WEAVER ! SO BAD " => kicked (extreme reaction I conceed)

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Cregath.7628" said:

> "I only have damage" -> "I know I have CC, but that's DPS loss"

> Love you folks! =)

 

It's not the theoretical options you have that matter. It only matters what you do in practice. And in practice you don't cc. Your cc options are limited and it's not worth taking the damage loss to use them. Like it or not, that's the reality - weaver is the purest dps spec in the game.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"ThiBash.5634" said:

> The main thing that concerns met about the change is the 'incentive to cancel cast'. I feel that it should somehow be worth it to stick out the entire cast. One way of achieving this would be to let Meteor Show start with low dps, then get higher as the effect continues. However, given how GW2 works, with people/npcs moving out of fields, that would really make it worthless. another solution could be to make the damage drop-off less steep, while also decreasing the initial damage. But that would just soften the effect, unless the remaining damage was high enough (which would then mean: more dps to large targets).

>

> Large targets and multi-hit damage was something that I agree felt a little off. It caused a huge gap in effectiveness between the various fights. What I don't understand however, is why this wasn't applied to all the other large target skills (like Lightning Storm and Citadel Bombardment). I do not understand why 'hits large target too often' is only an issue for Meteor Shower, and nothing else.

 

That is something I see anet doing however this type of change would gut ele in WvW anyway

[Xillllix.3485]

Well there is no way now that I'm ever reinstalling this game. GG Anet.

 

 

[steki.1478]

> @"Xillllix.3485" said:

> Well there is no way now that I'm ever reinstalling this game. GG Anet.

>

>

 

Can I has your stuffs?

[Jski.6180]

> @"Cregath.7628" said:

> "I only have damage" -> "I know I have CC, but that's DPS loss"

> Love you folks! =)

 

Death use to be and may still be part of the ele dmg rotation in pve. Ele is a pure dmg class in pve and well in wvw. That just what happens when your a class who lacks a lot of effects in the game the all other classes have.

[TSOdinson.2518]

So... Weaver sword/dagger now for more cc? What's the damage difference? Or back to tempest?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"TSOdinson.2518" said:

> So... Weaver sword/dagger now for more cc? What's the damage difference? Or back to tempest?

 

Nah, still staff weaver. Sword/dagger might be higher dps on small target, but it lacks cleave, so I don't see myself switching over in either pve or wvw.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> Doers it not say something that it dealt THAT much damage to begin with? A press and forget skill shouldnt be doing anywhere near that kind of damage. Ever. Also by the sounds of it, the effect ONLY works for PvE by how it mentions PvE but not WvW?

 

Exactly my thinking. If anything this shows how bad the design of the whole class was and in large parts still is that a skill clearly meant to mass-bombard (but without the ability to target) an area provided such an important part of vs-large-target single target DPS.

 

I mean, if that doesn't show you how glacial GW2's redesigns/rebalancings are, then I don't know what else would. The game is lagging nearly 5 years behind. Yeah they're picking up the pace now, but it's going to be difficult to make up 5 years of mostly-skipped rebalancing/reimplementation efforts other games had.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Cregath.7628" said:

> > "I only have damage" -> "I know I have CC, but that's DPS loss"

> > Love you folks! =)

>

> Death use to be and may still be part of the ele dmg rotation in pve. Ele is a pure dmg class in pve and well in wvw. That just what happens when your a class who lacks a lot of effects in the game the all other classes have.

 

Ele still provides water fields and CC in WvW, they’re not purely for damage just you need to be very smart about it with weaver. Core ele has mostly damage (less max than weaver) but also provides some support and tempest is full support or should be if you’re playing it to it’s strengths.

 

PvE definitely full dps and everything Feanor said about not worth switching to CC is true.

[Martimus.6027]

Personally, I think they used a nerf sledgehammer instead of a nerf ballpeen on the skill. I get that it needed a bit of a nerf, but holy crap man, really? They hit it with an Orichalcum Nerfbat, not a Darksteel Nerfbat like they should have done. It is not a fire and forget. That cast time which you have to do all the way to completion for any real damage, is pretty restrictive in a game where dodge rolling and constant movement is a major combat theme. The timing has to be right, and I think we should get a decent reward for completing the cast successfully (while also still avoiding damage and maintaining our DPS). But now, I think it's better to just not even bother casting it. ANet seems to be a company who approaches balance with jackhammers instead of chisels. They let something go on for ages untouched despite suggestion after suggestion and then BababaBOOM!

 

Hopefully it gets improved after they have realized their error. I just don't really enjoy hassling with the spell on my Staff Weaver anymore.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> Personally, I think they used a nerf sledgehammer instead of a nerf ballpeen on the skill.

 

Good. And in fact, I'd go far beyond what they're doing and say that even their most heavy-handed nerfs (which this isn't) are way too tiny. Too rarely a full rip-out-and-implement-something-else-instead. Proper reworks and remodellings are way too rare, Mesmer Phantasm change, Deadeye Malice change, those things.

 

Sure, Meteor shouldn't have gotten this nerf maybe, it feels super arbitrary. But personally, I would have done that by changing the underlying design to not be compatible with single target use:

 

**Meteor Shower**

Channel for up to 15 seconds, calling down up to 10 meteors in a wide radius. Each meteor takes some time to fall but the impact location is marked in advance.

_Cooldown_: 45 seconds

_Channel Time_: Up to 15 seconds, the longer you hold it, the more meteors you get since they come one at a time.

_Total impact field radius_: 600 units

_Range_: 900 units - meaning at maximum it is a circle 1200 wide, starting 300 units in front of you

 

**Meteor Strike**

A meteor comes down after a 1 second delay, causing widespread damage and releasing a rolling wave of flame.

_Radius (Impact)_: 180

_Damage_: Really high, there's plenty time for players to walk out of these.

_Radius (Rolling Wave)_: 450

_Damage (Rolling Wave)_: About a third as much as the impact

_Burning (Rolling Wave)_: 3 stacks, 5 seconds

 

So basically, this would be the *proper* shell a wide area skill. Because the game needs more skills which actually feel epic to use, not just throw some puny glowing stones at a target.

[Martimus.6027]

> @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > Personally, I think they used a nerf sledgehammer instead of a nerf ballpeen on the skill.

>

> Good. And in fact, I'd go far beyond what they're doing and say that even their most heavy-handed nerfs (which this isn't) are way too tiny. Too rarely a full rip-out-and-implement-something-else-instead. Proper reworks and remodellings are way too rare, Mesmer Phantasm change, Deadeye Malice change, those things.

>

> Sure, Meteor shouldn't have gotten this nerf maybe, it feels super arbitrary. But personally, I would have done that by changing the underlying design to not be compatible with single target use:

>

> **Meteor Shower**

> Channel for up to 15 seconds, calling down up to 10 meteors in a wide radius. Each meteor takes some time to fall but the impact location is marked in advance.

> _Cooldown_: 45 seconds

> _Channel Time_: Up to 15 seconds, the longer you hold it, the more meteors you get since they come one at a time.

> _Total impact field radius_: 600 units

> _Range_: 900 units - meaning at maximum it is a circle 1200 wide, starting 300 units in front of you

>

> **Meteor Strike**

> A meteor comes down after a 1 second delay, causing widespread damage and releasing a rolling wave of flame.

> _Radius (Impact)_: 180

> _Damage_: Really high, there's plenty time for players to walk out of these.

> _Radius (Rolling Wave)_: 450

> _Damage (Rolling Wave)_: About a third as much as the impact

> _Burning (Rolling Wave)_: 3 stacks, 5 seconds

>

> So basically, this would be the *proper* shell a wide area skill. Because the game needs more skills which actually feel epic to use, not just throw some puny glowing stones at a target.

 

I agree for the majority of what you're saying.

 

But that's not what happened. What we basically got was "Oh that skill does really good damage, let's poop all over it." Either you want your light armor classes to be the hardest hitters or you don't. It's confusing right now. My Firebrand is just absolutely destroying everything it comes up again...my Staff Weaver? Not so much anymore.

[steki.1478]

> @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > Personally, I think they used a nerf sledgehammer instead of a nerf ballpeen on the skill.

>

> Good. And in fact, I'd go far beyond what they're doing and say that even their most heavy-handed nerfs (which this isn't) are way too tiny. Too rarely a full rip-out-and-implement-something-else-instead. Proper reworks and remodellings are way too rare, Mesmer Phantasm change, Deadeye Malice change, those things.

>

> Sure, Meteor shouldn't have gotten this nerf maybe, it feels super arbitrary. But personally, I would have done that by changing the underlying design to not be compatible with single target use:

>

> **Meteor Shower**

> Channel for up to 15 seconds, calling down up to 10 meteors in a wide radius. Each meteor takes some time to fall but the impact location is marked in advance.

> _Cooldown_: 45 seconds

> _Channel Time_: Up to 15 seconds, the longer you hold it, the more meteors you get since they come one at a time.

> _Total impact field radius_: 600 units

> _Range_: 900 units - meaning at maximum it is a circle 1200 wide, starting 300 units in front of you

>

> **Meteor Strike**

> A meteor comes down after a 1 second delay, causing widespread damage and releasing a rolling wave of flame.

> _Radius (Impact)_: 180

> _Damage_: Really high, there's plenty time for players to walk out of these.

> _Radius (Rolling Wave)_: 450

> _Damage (Rolling Wave)_: About a third as much as the impact

> _Burning (Rolling Wave)_: 3 stacks, 5 seconds

>

> So basically, this would be the *proper* shell a wide area skill. Because the game needs more skills which actually feel epic to use, not just throw some puny glowing stones at a target.

 

That would be pretty bad change in wvw considering that meteor is one of the better balanced skills there. 15 sec channel is just stupid for such skill, in any mode.

[Jski.6180]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Cregath.7628" said:

> > > "I only have damage" -> "I know I have CC, but that's DPS loss"

> > > Love you folks! =)

> >

> > Death use to be and may still be part of the ele dmg rotation in pve. Ele is a pure dmg class in pve and well in wvw. That just what happens when your a class who lacks a lot of effects in the game the all other classes have.

>

> Ele still provides water fields and CC in WvW, they’re not purely for damage just you need to be very smart about it with weaver. Core ele has mostly damage (less max than weaver) but also provides some support and tempest is full support or should be if you’re playing it to it’s strengths.

>

> PvE definitely full dps and everything Feanor said about not worth switching to CC is true.

 

All classes give out cc and give out heals in one way or another. Things like water fields are worthless other then self blasting these days please do not think them part of balancing any more.

 

All they got to do to fix MS is to drop the number of rocks speed up the fall up the aoe size and numbers of targets. Say 15 rocks 240 size aoe 5 targets.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> I think it’s time ANet learnt how to create a proper meteor show skill from a real developer: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower

>

> Edit: I’ll probably have to explain this. Basically they should make meteor shower a pulsing damage AoE with a visual of a single meteor falling at each damage interval, that way they can control the damage it does on large and small targets much more consistently and players don’t have to deal with RNG and inconsistent damage numbers. Make it hit 10 targets to retain its large scale use and it’s done.

 

Yes please. I've always been annoyed at how RNG based meteor shower is. It should have always just been a larger, higher damage version of lava font with higher target cap.