Necro power builds for fractal / raids

[Fargas.6251]

I wish Anet would balance their game better. This lack of builds is discouraging.

[Saint Sated.2698]

> @"Fargas.6251" said:

> I wish Anet would balance their game better. This lack of builds is discouraging.

 

Imho, not Anets fault. The community follows the 1% who are speed clearers. These players are to blame. Guilds like SC are to blame. They either intentionally spread the rumor that their builds are the only way to play, or let the community assume it without proper pushback.

Not everyone cares about speed clearing. Their builds are designed (and very well) for speed clearing, but it is NOT the only way to play.

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Draco.9480" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Warcry.1596" said:

> > > I love power necro in raiding and Fractals. Its quite fun. I personally haven't experienced being kicked but I do hear it happens a lot.

> > > Play what you enjoy, provided you are helping team composition enough.

> >

> > Even though I'm necro main. I would kick such people as well, if they are bad at what they do.

> >

> > And power reaper is bad right now. He offers nothing to the group that other classes/ elites can't do better.

> >

> > You need a pull? Take mesmer

> > You need heavy cc? Take mesmer

> > You want blocks? Take guard

> > You want are dmg + barriers? Take scourge

> > You want healing? Take a healer

> > You want dmg? Take spellbreaker or ele or holo

>

> mesmer provides more aegis. vg,sab,xera,matt(at least 2 mirages is must in matt),sh are scourges, everything else are 4-5 weavers with 1 holo at least for vul except for kc. that's all the dps. heal you need only 1 druid, you take 1 warr for banners, 2 chrono to support both parties and that's it. 0 diversity

 

We'll yesterday we did KC with 4 scourges, guess who was top DPS ;)

[yann.1946]

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > @"Fargas.6251" said:

> > I wish Anet would balance their game better. This lack of builds is discouraging.

>

> Imho, not Anets fault. The community follows the 1% who are speed clearers. These players are to blame. Guilds like SC are to blame. They either intentionally spread the rumor that their builds are the only way to play, or let the community assume it without proper pushback.

> Not everyone cares about speed clearing. Their builds are designed (and very well) for speed clearing, but it is NOT the only way to play.

>

 

To be fair in the benchmark posts on Reddit that you van clear with almost anything andere you schouldn't be a classnazi.

 

It mostly is the reading comprihension that's to blame.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > @"Fargas.6251" said:

> > I wish Anet would balance their game better. This lack of builds is discouraging.

>

> Imho, not Anets fault. The community follows the 1% who are speed clearers. These players are to blame. Guilds like SC are to blame. They either intentionally spread the rumor that their builds are the only way to play, or let the community assume it without proper pushback.

> Not everyone cares about speed clearing. Their builds are designed (and very well) for speed clearing, but it is NOT the only way to play.

>

 

This is wrong on so many levels. It's almost comparable to that Kanye West remark some time ago, about slavery.

ANet makes the rules (balances the skills, classes, mechanics, etc.) and chooses to discriminate a LOT. In some occasions it's hardly a choice anymore, if the ruleset is sooooo much in your (dis)advantage. There are statistically and benchmarked proven scenarios where differences between say a Weaver and Power Reaper go up to 30% even! It's like: you want a $100 check or $70 check? Please choose! Even if there are some small insignificant conditions: e.g. you have to stand on one leg for 1 minute. You, and most of the community will go for that $100 check! You can hardly blame the community for that! ANet on the other hand, could change it to differences like $100 and $98 checks (or even $95 for that matter), and there is a choice again! EASY!

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > @"Fargas.6251" said:

> > I wish Anet would balance their game better. This lack of builds is discouraging.

>

> Imho, not Anets fault. The community follows the 1% who are speed clearers. These players are to blame. Guilds like SC are to blame. They either intentionally spread the rumor that their builds are the only way to play, or let the community assume it without proper pushback.

> Not everyone cares about speed clearing. Their builds are designed (and very well) for speed clearing, but it is NOT the only way to play.

>

 

You really should stop spreading lies like this. Every guild that made builds and released them for the public(be it qT, SC or other) have been clear under what circumstances the builds are optimal and that you shouldnt be a class-nazi(simply due to the fact that a very small part actually can play e.g. weaver to the point where it outclasses other builds). The class nazis in pugs are people that don't understand better and you can't put the blame on the people supplying the builds.

[Henry.5713]

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > @"Fargas.6251" said:

> > I wish Anet would balance their game better. This lack of builds is discouraging.

>

> Imho, not Anets fault. The community follows the 1% who are speed clearers. These players are to blame. Guilds like SC are to blame. They either intentionally spread the rumor that their builds are the only way to play, or let the community assume it without proper pushback.

> **Not everyone cares about speed clearing. Their builds are designed (and very well) for speed clearing, but it is NOT the only way to play. **

>

 

The supposed 1%, eh?

Where does that nonsense even come from? You either completely ignore their disclaimers and off-speedclear-META builds or choose to do so to intentionally spread false information and dislike. qT always gave the disclaimer I quoted below. The SC build site includes many builds which are far from optimal in a speedclear setting yet pefectly viable and thus worth mentioning on their site. People never understand the difference between something being optimal and something being perfectly viable. Why would that have changed, I guess.

 

DISCLAIMER:

These numbers are the numbers **done in a vacuum, under almost optimal conditions. Some builds, which are weak on the golem, will be the strongest on certain encounters**. Such as condi thief, which gains a significant amount of DPS from whirl finishers in a real raid.

All benchmarks are done under the assumption of a 5-5 comp **but other comps are also viable**.

**You don't have to be a class nazi. Every class can do the job if played correctly. Having the highest possible damage is not necessary to kill any boss.**

 

[Draco.9480]

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > @"Fargas.6251" said:

> > I wish Anet would balance their game better. This lack of builds is discouraging.

>

> Imho, not Anets fault. The community follows the 1% who are speed clearers. These players are to blame. Guilds like SC are to blame. They either intentionally spread the rumor that their builds are the only way to play, or let the community assume it without proper pushback.

> Not everyone cares about speed clearing. Their builds are designed (and very well) for speed clearing, but it is NOT the only way to play.

>

 

first of all you lie. second, you encourage people to not give a damn about gameplay and performance in raids and expecting 'em to accept such people to raids. people want fast kills in efficient way. do you enjoy spending double the time on each boss and wipe cuz lack of dps and it pressures the people? are we suppose to drag down the team cuz we want to play what we want on purpose? i can understand playing the class you want but it should be useful and efficient. SC represents the possibilities and the "best" route which some compositions in there in some bosses don't make much sense to me but they show overall how is "best" to deal with raids to help people to do 'em better and not drag people down. people like you i'd never take to a raid cuz you won't improve or adapt to anything cuz you'll do whatever you want on purpose.

[Saint Sated.2698]

I'm saying speed clearing is unhealthy for the game because of how the community takes it as the only way to play. They exclude the kids in the back of the bus who don't play meta classes and builds for whatever reason. You don't need fastest kills to enjoy a raid. You don't need fastest kills to get loot. Enrage timers are hardly a problem. One way of thinking would be if the raid is a speed clear, it ought to be stated, but not every clear HAS to be a speed clear. That's where my personal issue is. The guilds you named do a fantastic job with their builds, and do indeed have disclaimers such as you posted, but these disclaimers are like the fine print in the terms and conditions - hardly anyone pays attention to them, and most definitely most of those on lfg right now are looking for strictly speed clearing comps.

SC and the other speed clearing guilds are great at what they do, but it isn't the only way to play this content. You can take off meta builds and compositions and still clear, if it's what the player enjoys.

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> I'm saying speed clearing is unhealthy for the game because of how the community takes it as the only way to play. They exclude the kids in the back of the bus who don't play meta classes and builds for whatever reason. You don't need fastest kills to enjoy a raid. You don't need fastest kills to get loot. Enrage timers are hardly a problem. One way of thinking would be if the raid is a speed clear, it ought to be stated, but not every clear HAS to be a speed clear. That's where my personal issue is. The guilds you named do a fantastic job with their builds, and do indeed have disclaimers such as you posted, but these disclaimers are like the fine print in the terms and conditions - hardly anyone pays attention to them, and most definitely most of those on lfg right now are looking for strictly speed clearing comps.

> SC and the other speed clearing guilds are great at what they do, but it isn't the only way to play this content. You can take off meta builds and compositions and still clear, if it's what the player enjoys.

 

I suspect this is another way of saying "I will play only power reaper and youre a toxic elitist if you don't let me join". I do multiple clears a week and join pugs in the entire spectrum of LI requirements, and it is extremely rare to see speedrun comps. Generally you always have double druids(which, apart from maybe dhuum, isn't used in high tier groups), DPS is spread among the classes and exclude very few unless a boss strictly favors condi or power. Every build is of course not welcome everywhere, but the claim that " the community takes it as the only way to play" is easily proven wrong by anyone that actually raids.

 

Anyway, in the event you're not happy with what other groups would like you to provide the simple solution is as always: make your own "all welcome" group. If that's not a solution to you, please answer the question why?

[Saint Sated.2698]

> @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > I'm saying speed clearing is unhealthy for the game because of how the community takes it as the only way to play. They exclude the kids in the back of the bus who don't play meta classes and builds for whatever reason. You don't need fastest kills to enjoy a raid. You don't need fastest kills to get loot. Enrage timers are hardly a problem. One way of thinking would be if the raid is a speed clear, it ought to be stated, but not every clear HAS to be a speed clear. That's where my personal issue is. The guilds you named do a fantastic job with their builds, and do indeed have disclaimers such as you posted, but these disclaimers are like the fine print in the terms and conditions - hardly anyone pays attention to them, and most definitely most of those on lfg right now are looking for strictly speed clearing comps.

> > SC and the other speed clearing guilds are great at what they do, but it isn't the only way to play this content. You can take off meta builds and compositions and still clear, if it's what the player enjoys.

>

> I suspect this is another way of saying "I will play only power reaper and youre a toxic elitist if you don't let me join". I do multiple clears a week and join pugs in the entire spectrum of LI requirements, and it is extremely rare to see speedrun comps. Generally you always have double druids(which, apart from maybe dhuum, isn't used in high tier groups), DPS is spread among the classes and exclude very few unless a boss strictly favors condi or power. Every build is of course not welcome everywhere, but the claim that " the community takes it as the only way to play" is easily proven wrong by anyone that actually raids.

>

> Anyway, in the event you're not happy with what other groups would like you to provide the simple solution is as always: make your own "all welcome" group. If that's not a solution to you, please answer the question why?

 

That was very well put, and in a sense, I agree with you. People can make an "all welcome" group. Absolutely. My argument is not specifically about power reaper, and since I did not mention that build, your suspicions are unwarranted. It's more that I really feel like there is a stigma over raiding to many many players who are too scared to try because a large part of the vocal community has displayed elitism and toxicity. Maybe these players have not experienced it directly and only heard of the legendary elitism and toxicity second hand.

The community as a whole is not taking the speed clear builds are the only way to play, it's probably a (ultimately) very small but verrrrry vocal part that is the target of my frustration.

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > > @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > > I'm saying speed clearing is unhealthy for the game because of how the community takes it as the only way to play. They exclude the kids in the back of the bus who don't play meta classes and builds for whatever reason. You don't need fastest kills to enjoy a raid. You don't need fastest kills to get loot. Enrage timers are hardly a problem. One way of thinking would be if the raid is a speed clear, it ought to be stated, but not every clear HAS to be a speed clear. That's where my personal issue is. The guilds you named do a fantastic job with their builds, and do indeed have disclaimers such as you posted, but these disclaimers are like the fine print in the terms and conditions - hardly anyone pays attention to them, and most definitely most of those on lfg right now are looking for strictly speed clearing comps.

> > > SC and the other speed clearing guilds are great at what they do, but it isn't the only way to play this content. You can take off meta builds and compositions and still clear, if it's what the player enjoys.

> >

> > I suspect this is another way of saying "I will play only power reaper and youre a toxic elitist if you don't let me join". I do multiple clears a week and join pugs in the entire spectrum of LI requirements, and it is extremely rare to see speedrun comps. Generally you always have double druids(which, apart from maybe dhuum, isn't used in high tier groups), DPS is spread among the classes and exclude very few unless a boss strictly favors condi or power. Every build is of course not welcome everywhere, but the claim that " the community takes it as the only way to play" is easily proven wrong by anyone that actually raids.

> >

> > Anyway, in the event you're not happy with what other groups would like you to provide the simple solution is as always: make your own "all welcome" group. If that's not a solution to you, please answer the question why?

>

> That was very well put, and in a sense, I agree with you. People can make an "all welcome" group. Absolutely. My argument is not specifically about power reaper, and since I did not mention that build, your suspicions are unwarranted. It's more that I really feel like there is a stigma over raiding to many many players who are too scared to try because a large part of the vocal community has displayed elitism and toxicity. Maybe these players have not experienced it directly and only heard of the legendary elitism and toxicity second hand.

> The community as a whole is not taking the speed clear builds are the only way to play, it's probably a (ultimately) very small but verrrrry vocal part that is the target of my frustration.

 

Quite honestly, posts like your own create more scared players than the few rotten eggs in game ever will since you portray an image of a super toxic community when that isn't the case. If you can carry your own weight in a raid, there chance to be target of toxicity is abysmal. If you however fake experience and fail mechanics, don't provide the utility you reasonably should, have significantly lower dps than others or try to force something on the squad - then yes there is a chance you will be targeted.

 

 

[narcx.3570]

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > > @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > > I'm saying speed clearing is unhealthy for the game because of how the community takes it as the only way to play. They exclude the kids in the back of the bus who don't play meta classes and builds for whatever reason. You don't need fastest kills to enjoy a raid. You don't need fastest kills to get loot. Enrage timers are hardly a problem. One way of thinking would be if the raid is a speed clear, it ought to be stated, but not every clear HAS to be a speed clear. That's where my personal issue is. The guilds you named do a fantastic job with their builds, and do indeed have disclaimers such as you posted, but these disclaimers are like the fine print in the terms and conditions - hardly anyone pays attention to them, and most definitely most of those on lfg right now are looking for strictly speed clearing comps.

> > > SC and the other speed clearing guilds are great at what they do, but it isn't the only way to play this content. You can take off meta builds and compositions and still clear, if it's what the player enjoys.

> >

> > I suspect this is another way of saying "I will play only power reaper and youre a toxic elitist if you don't let me join". I do multiple clears a week and join pugs in the entire spectrum of LI requirements, and it is extremely rare to see speedrun comps. Generally you always have double druids(which, apart from maybe dhuum, isn't used in high tier groups), DPS is spread among the classes and exclude very few unless a boss strictly favors condi or power. Every build is of course not welcome everywhere, but the claim that " the community takes it as the only way to play" is easily proven wrong by anyone that actually raids.

> >

> > Anyway, in the event you're not happy with what other groups would like you to provide the simple solution is as always: make your own "all welcome" group. If that's not a solution to you, please answer the question why?

>

> That was very well put, and in a sense, I agree with you. People can make an "all welcome" group. Absolutely. My argument is not specifically about power reaper, and since I did not mention that build, your suspicions are unwarranted. It's more that I really feel like there is a stigma over raiding to many many players who are too scared to try because a large part of the vocal community has displayed elitism and toxicity. Maybe these players have not experienced it directly and only heard of the legendary elitism and toxicity second hand.

> The community as a whole is not taking the speed clear builds are the only way to play, it's probably a (ultimately) very small but verrrrry vocal part that is the target of my frustration.

 

It's not about speed run elitism IMO, it's about success rate.... If all people cared about was speed run elitism, you wouldn't see so many pugs using two druids or even a 3rd healer on Matthias or SH, and you wouldn't see so many groups doing ranged Deimos or using a kiter on Cairn, and you wouldn't see so many people fine with their chronos being full minstrel... These strategies are all about safe one-shots and leaving rando's less chance to cause a wipe, which yes, also includes taking people using meta dps builds. More damage = less mechanics for unknowns to potentially fail.

 

But it's not just that, somebody using a meta build is also more likely to be experienced since they've taken the effort to keep their roles up to date with the trends... When you start taking off-meta builds into your group, USUALLY (yes I know not always), but usually they are also super-inexperienced players. I'm all for letting people play whatever they want, because ya, you don't need meta builds to do ANY of the content in the game--the boss timers have a comically large amount of extra time on them these days... But if I'm pugging, I'm not really emotionally invested in these people... I'm most likely looking to get my clears done fast and headache free, and a celestial scourge who's gonna drop poison in the middle of the group three pulls in a row and then kill me with epidemic doesn't really fit with that mentality.

 

[Turkeyspit.3965]

If LFG groups spent more time kicking players who don't know about / have / use CC and/or stand in the ouch, instead of kicking players based on their choice of profession, LFG groups would on the whole be a lot more successful.

 

If the boss' bar is broken instantly and you aren't standing in any circles you shouldn't be, I could care less what spec you picked - the boss will die regardless.

But you take 5 players with Meta builds and full ascendend but have no idea what to do with CC or how to stay alive, and they will wipe repeatedly.

 

[Alehin.3746]

Some weeks ago the streamee Mightyteapot did all raids as power necro using a fresh account with no killproof, LI or help from others. Yes, power reaper is far from becoming meta, but it's very doable as long as you know what to do. Good luck, have fun and don't let your memes be dreams.