Is Iboga bugged or intended?

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> > > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > **I'd argue that it's overpowered when compared to the other pets.** With Lynx/Jacaranda as DPS pets it was always a trade off to bring extra utility, and not a huge loss if you did want to switch to a second pet to cc.

> > >

> > > Ah, there in lies the solution. @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048", double the damage of all the other pets in PvE so the Iboga's DPS looks normal when compared to the other pets. Git on it! :smirk:

> >

> > It might not actually be a bad idea if they could skill-split it to be PvE only, the important thing is just standardising the damage across all pet archetypes and not having one outlier that's taken mostly everywhere. Heck, as you said before, it could even open up some interesting unmerge rotations for both power and condi-soulbeast; both of which are somewhat underwhelming in PvE right now.

> >

> > Druid to me remains a problem though, there's something wrong about a fully defensively geared player dealing almost 10k DPS while being basically unkillable. It's a shame that pets don't currently scale based on the player's own stats. Here's hoping for the ranger pet rework up next! ;)

> >

>

> So you're saying "its ok to nerf it in pvp but not in pve".

>

> I never thought IBOGA was an outlier. All the pets are sKitten and iboga was a little less sKittier

> I did my testing with it. But yanno, I'm not playing at plat 2 the only mode that matters /eyeroll-- @"Trevor Boyer.6524" Are you?

>

> Anert catches a whiff of something maybe strong for rangers and BAM they are on it!

> Why'd it take them this long to heavy hand the mesmers?

>

>

 

I'm pretty ignorant to PvP so I'm really only talking from a PvE perspective. For PvE the nerf was justified, my comment above was just if they wanted to keep the Iboga pet strong then I'd like to see more pets brought up to that level. I'll take your word that it wasn't very overpowered in PvP.

[Kolisch.4691]

The Iboga is no longer something dangerous. ANET turned it into a houseplant.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

>For PvE the nerf was justified...

 

I'd argue that this particular nerf wasn't justified. I'd rather have the damn thing reverted to the state before Consuming Bite was fixed and tooltip reworded. At least it rode that fine line of being a solid pet; not weak, too strong, or situational.

 

It's patches like these that make being a Ranger that enjoys pets suck. @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" revert the Iboga to before the May 8th patch, **PLEASE.** Reword the tooltip so the additional damage is just vs a foe with conditions instead of per condition. Don't add another pet into the stable of obscurity.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> So you're saying "its ok to nerf it in pvp but not in pve".

Better that than nerfing it in PVE because it's "OP" in PVP, like they keep doing. Happened to the gazelle, too, and they somehow made its charge a buggy mess on top of the intended damage nerf.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

Sorry, forum bugged out when I was trying to post and I didn't think it went through the first time.

[Zephyr.5382]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> For PvE the nerf was justified

 

But...why? How does it affect other players? The "build diversity" argument doesn't work because people will just go back to the previous, best-in-slot DPS pets like lynx.

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Zephyr.5382" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > For PvE the nerf was justified

>

> But...why? How does it affect other players? The "build diversity" argument doesn't work because people will just go back to the previous, best-in-slot DPS pets like lynx.

 

It affected pet diversity. Before the Iboga was buffed I used the following pets on Druid in raids: Jacaranda, Tiger, Lynx, Electric wyvern, Rock Gazelle, Black Moa, Brown bear, Smokescale and probably more that I'm forgetting. They were all used for certain encounters and in different ways.

 

Following the buff to the Iboga I used a single pet at every encounter (Iboga) and rarely/if ever switched. It did so much damage (and cc as extra) that any utility provided by other pets was just shifted to other classes.

 

My understanding is that the Iboga is still competitive and will probably still be the highest DPS pet at encounters like Desmina which proc confusion very often. Keep in mind that arcdps currently doesn't measure confusion accurately, it's doing far more than what's being reported by meters currently.

 

>@"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

>I'd argue that this particular nerf wasn't justified. I'd rather have the kitten thing reverted to the state before Consuming Bite was fixed and tooltip reworded. At least it rode that fine line of being a solid pet; not weak, too strong, or situational.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at your (and others) numbers the pet is still very competitive. Especially as I mention above with confusion being very underrated right now in PvE. I'll have to test it out a bit once I'm back but I could definitely see it edging out Jacaranda at certain fights. It's even supposedly very good for condi-soulbeast at certain encounters.

[Aomine.5012]

Well, Iboga used to be bugged because his damage modifier does not work.

Now they patched it and find that the damage value is so op, they nerfed it by 60%...

 

Duhhh, Smoke Assault all over again amirite?

[Wondrouswall.7169]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at your (and others) numbers the pet is still very competitive. Especially as I mention above with confusion being very underrated right now in PvE. I'll have to test it out a bit once I'm back but I could definitely see it edging out Jacaranda at certain fights. It's even supposedly very good for condi-soulbeast at certain encounters.

 

I mentioned this in the other post when I went through updating my spreadsheet. It has the *potential* to deal good damage, the difference between what we have now and its version before the May 8th patch is reliable damage in all scenarios.

 

The previous iteration of Iboga's Consuming Bite (the bugged one) had great power and the additional damage added against targets with any condition as a flat damage increase meant its damage was consistent while the confusion it was able to maintain bolstered it further.

 

Now, it *requires* to be buffed and have nearly every condition that can be stacked against a target to make it rival the Jacaranda. Between the version that gave a solid, consistent performance on every encounter to being good in only certain ones, I'd take the former every time.

 

Edit: Not to mention, the version I'm advocating for Iboga to be reverted back to wasn't too far off from Jacaranda. My tests during that time had its DPS at 3426 fully buffed and the Jacaranda at 3697 fully buffed.

 

With confusion, it easily surpassed the Jacaranda and only required targets to be afflicted with a single condition to get the most out of it. And even then, power setups (with NM) had better results. That bugged version was a gem compared to what it has become now.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@"AnariiUK.7409" There is no way on God's green Earth this nerf is justified in PvE. Are the mobs now complaining the pet is hitting them too hard? Are players complaining that the added damage is killing mobs too quick? Are rangers suddenly taking over with certain events?

 

Come on. We all know why this happened, and it wasn't because of complaints in PvE. Yes, please revert this change in PvE or at least bring other pets to the same standard in PvE.

 

Again, ANet can do whatever it wants in PvP.

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> The previous iteration of Iboga's Consuming Bite (the bugged one) had great power and the additional damage added against targets with any condition as a flat damage increase meant its damage was consistent while the confusion it was able to maintain bolstered it further.

>

> Now, it *requires* to be buffed and have nearly every condition that can be stacked against a target to make it rival the Jacaranda. Between the version that gave a solid, consistent performance on every encounter to being good in only certain ones, I'd take the former every time.

 

It does make a lot of sense, I can definitely see the merits of having consistent baseline damage as opposed to having it depend entirely on the comp/condis on the target. That said, I really want to see where the dust settles on this. It's not unrealistic for certain targets to have huge amounts of condis on them and the current Iboga does bring CC and confusion over the Jacaranda (With the latter providing vuln). It still sounds like a decent pick on paper.

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> @"AnariiUK.7409" There is no way on God's green Earth this nerf is justified in PvE. Are the mobs now complaining the pet is hitting them too hard? Are players complaining that the added damage is killing mobs too quick? Are rangers suddenly taking over with certain events?

>

> Come on. We all know why this happened, and it wasn't because of complaints in PvE. Yes, please revert this change in PvE or at least bring other pets to the same standard in PvE.

>

> Again, ANet can do whatever it wants in PvP.

 

There are many complaints from PvE players about Druid being overpowered (rightfully so) and basically always having 1-2 fixed spots in a group.

 

The Iboga made it so that Druid was once again, *the* healer, since it could suddenly heal, do 10k DPS _and_ buff the team, all in Minstrel's gear. Or how about a condi druid suddenly doing 30k DPS. Nothing else can compete with that.

 

It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

[Aomine.5012]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" There is no way on God's green Earth this nerf is justified in PvE. Are the mobs now complaining the pet is hitting them too hard? Are players complaining that the added damage is killing mobs too quick? Are rangers suddenly taking over with certain events?

> >

> > Come on. We all know why this happened, and it wasn't because of complaints in PvE. Yes, please revert this change in PvE or at least bring other pets to the same standard in PvE.

> >

> > Again, ANet can do whatever it wants in PvP.

>

> There are many complaints from PvE players about Druid being overpowered (rightfully so) and basically always having 1-2 fixed spots in a group.

>

> The Iboga made it so that Druid was once again, *the* healer, since it could suddenly heal, do 10k DPS _and_ buff the team, all in Minstrel's gear. Or how about a condi druid suddenly doing 30k DPS. Nothing else can compete with that.

>

> It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

 

The problem being once again, Anet overnerfed it cuz their balance team testers are totally clueless at what they're doing.

The new Iboga dps is even worse than pre-bug fix when the bonus doesn't applied .

Now using Iboga against target with every conditions resulting in even less dps than back when the bonus doesn't even applied...

Wth Anet? What's the point of fixing that bug to begin with? To find a reason to gut ranger once again with petty excuses, and lied to us it's just bug fix?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

 

Again, in PvE? What does that matter? And have you not been paying attention to everything that has been happening to this class? Any _more nerfs_, and ANet might as well delete the class. At this point, my only hope is that the next expansion brings us a better elite and better pets that makes this normalization have some kind of sense.

 

Otherwise, arguing that somehow ranger will damage 'balance' as a whole is so ridiculous it's almost comical. Any ranger who has played this game for any length of time knows ranger has never gotten a fair shake at this game. That isn't going to suddenly change in PvE because of one pet.

 

And, again, as far as PvP? ANet can gut the class to the bone. Already has. So this huge nerf won't make a hill of beans of difference again in PvP. In PvE? It's grossly unfair to fix a 'bug' and then make the pet even worse a week after the bug fix.

 

Completely ridiculous.

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

>

> Again, in PvE? What does that matter? And have you not been paying attention to everything that has been happening to this class? Any _more nerfs_, and ANet might as well delete the class. At this point, my only hope is that the next expansion brings us a better elite and better pets that makes this normalization have some kind of sense.

>

> Otherwise, arguing that somehow ranger will damage 'balance' as a whole is so ridiculous it's almost comical. Any ranger who has played this game for any length of time knows ranger has never gotten a fair shake at this game. That isn't going to suddenly change in PvE because of one pet.

>

> And, again, as far as PvP? ANet can gut the class to the bone. Already has. So this huge nerf won't make a hill of beans of difference again in PvP. In PvE? It's grossly unfair to fix a 'bug' and then make the pet even worse a week after the bug fix.

>

> Completely ridiculous.

 

Are you sure we're playing the same game? From my perspective Ranger has consistently been one of the strongest PvE classes since Heart of Thorns launched. Even with all of the recent nerfs it's _still_ far ahead of everything else as a healer, and has a very solid DPS spec on the side (Not that the Iboga nerf even affected any of our DPS builds).

[Wondrouswall.7169]

This seems to be steering away from the Iboga. The through-line being pets in general. Pets are always getting the short-end of the stick and have had too many nerfs, unresolved issues such as quickness not affecting most pets, and conditions/regen dropping to base values when stowed or swapped out.

 

This was one of the few times where the bug could have been passed as a feature and things would have been smooth sailing. I even thought they were going to go for the lowest-hanging fruit eventually by rewording the tooltip, and the one time they didn't, the outcome ends up being worse then before.

 

I just want it reverted to the point where it was simply a pet that consistently performed well. Not too powerful like the last version, and not too situational like the current version. Just a solid plant-with-teeth that can kick names and take a--.

 

Once that's done, just change *Twice as Vicious* on Soulbeast to temporarily retain Beastmode archetype bonus stats when unmerging, and then PvE can have a weaving style that fights *with* the pet like how it's already being done by good Soulbeasts over in PvP and WvW.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

> >

> > Again, in PvE? What does that matter? And have you not been paying attention to everything that has been happening to this class? Any _more nerfs_, and ANet might as well delete the class. At this point, my only hope is that the next expansion brings us a better elite and better pets that makes this normalization have some kind of sense.

> >

> > Otherwise, arguing that somehow ranger will damage 'balance' as a whole is so ridiculous it's almost comical. Any ranger who has played this game for any length of time knows ranger has never gotten a fair shake at this game. That isn't going to suddenly change in PvE because of one pet.

> >

> > And, again, as far as PvP? ANet can gut the class to the bone. Already has. So this huge nerf won't make a hill of beans of difference again in PvP. In PvE? It's grossly unfair to fix a 'bug' and then make the pet even worse a week after the bug fix.

> >

> > Completely ridiculous.

>

> Are you sure we're playing the same game? From my perspective Ranger has consistently been one of the strongest PvE classes since Heart of Thorns launched. Even with all of the recent nerfs it's _still_ far ahead of everything else as a healer, and has a very solid DPS spec on the side (Not that the Iboga nerf even affected any of our DPS builds).

 

Yes, we are all playing the same game. PvE stuff you can bring anything, except for those raid and fractal groups looking for specific comps. Druids are mostly in raids comps for might stacking and part time heals. My heal specced Ele can pump out far more healing than any druid in any mode, and can be specced for damage as well.

 

Do you wvw and/or spvp? I ask because your comments clearly lean toward pve.

 

I don't care if the devs nerfed whatever pet, doesn't matter to me, but you complaining about the iboga makes me chuckle when I think about all the crazy damage I see floating around in wvw. Ya know, the place where pets are closer to useless unless the lucky wind blows, or a player is cced long enough for the pet to make an impact. Those same pets that get aoed and cleaved in seconds when facing larger groups... And those pets are very helpful when you get 20k+ stealth 1 shot or multiburst smashed lol... but pet doing damage is somehow an issue...

[shadowpass.4236]

How much does the iboga do now?

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

> > >

> > > Again, in PvE? What does that matter? And have you not been paying attention to everything that has been happening to this class? Any _more nerfs_, and ANet might as well delete the class. At this point, my only hope is that the next expansion brings us a better elite and better pets that makes this normalization have some kind of sense.

> > >

> > > Otherwise, arguing that somehow ranger will damage 'balance' as a whole is so ridiculous it's almost comical. Any ranger who has played this game for any length of time knows ranger has never gotten a fair shake at this game. That isn't going to suddenly change in PvE because of one pet.

> > >

> > > And, again, as far as PvP? ANet can gut the class to the bone. Already has. So this huge nerf won't make a hill of beans of difference again in PvP. In PvE? It's grossly unfair to fix a 'bug' and then make the pet even worse a week after the bug fix.

> > >

> > > Completely ridiculous.

> >

> > Are you sure we're playing the same game? From my perspective Ranger has consistently been one of the strongest PvE classes since Heart of Thorns launched. Even with all of the recent nerfs it's _still_ far ahead of everything else as a healer, and has a very solid DPS spec on the side (Not that the Iboga nerf even affected any of our DPS builds).

>

> Yes, we are all playing the same game. PvE stuff you can bring anything, except for those raid and fractal groups looking for specific comps. Druids are mostly in raids comps for might stacking and part time heals. My heal specced Ele can pump out far more healing than any druid in any mode, and can be specced for damage as well.

>

> Do you wvw and/or spvp? I ask because your comments clearly lean toward pve.

 

I try to make it clear, but I only ever talk about PvE, specifically raiding. I don't play enough ranger in spvp/wvw to comment on that.

 

Also just to be clear, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I main ranger, so of course having a strong pet is desirable, but sometimes being objective and realising that something was clearly broken and likely a mistake/lack of testing on Arenanets part is beneficial. I love @"Wondrouswall.7169"'s suggestion to revert the pet back to it's prebugged state and change twice-as-vicious.

 

Regarding healing ele, it's completely overshadowed by Druid in PvE. We just bring so much offensive support, more than enough healing and reasonably high personal damage that absolutely no serious raid group would ever consider a ele healer over a Druid. The bugged Iboga made that imbalance even worse. I'm laughing everytime I read how "dead" Druid is on these forums.

 

If nothing changes, then the current Iboga is still fine in PvE. It's still going to be the primary pet at nearly every raid boss (especially those that need CC).

[Aomine.5012]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > > It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

> > > >

> > > > Again, in PvE? What does that matter? And have you not been paying attention to everything that has been happening to this class? Any _more nerfs_, and ANet might as well delete the class. At this point, my only hope is that the next expansion brings us a better elite and better pets that makes this normalization have some kind of sense.

> > > >

> > > > Otherwise, arguing that somehow ranger will damage 'balance' as a whole is so ridiculous it's almost comical. Any ranger who has played this game for any length of time knows ranger has never gotten a fair shake at this game. That isn't going to suddenly change in PvE because of one pet.

> > > >

> > > > And, again, as far as PvP? ANet can gut the class to the bone. Already has. So this huge nerf won't make a hill of beans of difference again in PvP. In PvE? It's grossly unfair to fix a 'bug' and then make the pet even worse a week after the bug fix.

> > > >

> > > > Completely ridiculous.

> > >

> > > Are you sure we're playing the same game? From my perspective Ranger has consistently been one of the strongest PvE classes since Heart of Thorns launched. Even with all of the recent nerfs it's _still_ far ahead of everything else as a healer, and has a very solid DPS spec on the side (Not that the Iboga nerf even affected any of our DPS builds).

> >

> > Yes, we are all playing the same game. PvE stuff you can bring anything, except for those raid and fractal groups looking for specific comps. Druids are mostly in raids comps for might stacking and part time heals. My heal specced Ele can pump out far more healing than any druid in any mode, and can be specced for damage as well.

> >

> > Do you wvw and/or spvp? I ask because your comments clearly lean toward pve.

>

> I try to make it clear, but I only ever talk about PvE, specifically raiding. I don't play enough ranger in spvp/wvw to comment on that.

>

> Also just to be clear, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I main ranger, so of course having a strong pet is desirable, but sometimes being objective and realising that something was clearly broken and likely a mistake/lack of testing on Arenanets part is beneficial. I love @"Wondrouswall.7169"'s suggestion to revert the pet back to it's prebugged state and change twice-as-vicious.

>

> Regarding healing ele, it's completely overshadowed by Druid in PvE. We just bring so much offensive support, more than enough healing and reasonably high personal damage that absolutely no serious raid group would ever consider a ele healer over a Druid. The bugged Iboga made that imbalance even worse. I'm laughing everytime I read how "dead" Druid is on these forums.

>

> If nothing changes, then the current Iboga is still fine in PvE. It's still going to be the primary pet at nearly every raid boss (especially those that need CC).

 

You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

 

The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

 

There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Aomine.5012" said:

> You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

>

> The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

> This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

>

> There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

 

This is not true from my quick testing (For PvE raiding):

 

Before 05/08/18 the Iboga was weaker than the Jacaranda at every raid encounter. It was (to my knowledge) not used anywhere. Primarily due to confusion being extremely weak.

 

After 05/22/18 (Current build) I recorded the following pet DPS using the most common Druid raid build (NM/Skirmishing/Druid).

10 conditions on the target (Realistic) and the normal boons on the pet (Solid assumption given Fortifying Bond).

 

Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

Iboga = 2348 DPS + About 10 confusion.

 

10 confusion at the 1750 condition damage of the Iboga results in a confusion proc of: 10x1.25x((0.195x1750)+95.5) = **5459 damage**

This occurs every time the boss uses an ability, it also procs very often at fights like Mursaat Overseer despite him not physically doing anything.

 

From my own observations most bosses proc confusion at a rate of once every ~3 seconds (MO) to once every second or more (Desmina). As a result, depending on the boss the confusion stacks are adding an extra **1820-5459 DPS** to the Iboga.

 

So overall:

Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

Iboga = 4168 - 7807 DPS

Making Iboga the best DPS pet to use at practically every situation (It even has CC).

 

As always, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here. But it genuinely looks like the Iboga is still perfectly fine, and people are massively overreacting to the nerf.

[Aomine.5012]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

> >

> > The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

> > This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

> >

> > There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

>

> This is not true from my quick testing (For PvE raiding):

>

> Before 05/08/18 the Iboga was weaker than the Jacaranda at every raid encounter. It was (to my knowledge) not used anywhere. Primarily due to confusion being extremely weak.

>

> After 05/22/18 (Current build) I recorded the following pet DPS using the most common Druid raid build (NM/Skirmishing/Druid).

> 10 conditions on the target (Realistic) and the normal boons on the pet (Solid assumption given Fortifying Bond).

>

> Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> Iboga = 2348 DPS + About 10 confusion.

>

> 10 confusion at the 1750 condition damage of the Iboga results in a confusion proc of: 10x1.25x((0.195x1750)+95.5) = **5459 damage**

> This occurs every time the boss uses an ability, it also procs very often at fights like Mursaat Overseer despite him not physically doing anything.

>

> From my own observations most bosses proc confusion at a rate of once every ~3 seconds (MO) to once every second or more (Desmina). As a result, depending on the boss the confusion stacks are adding an extra **1820-5459 DPS** to the Iboga.

>

> So overall:

> Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> Iboga = 4168 - 7807 DPS

> Making Iboga the best DPS pet to use at practically every situation (It even has CC).

>

> As always, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here. But it genuinely looks like the Iboga is still perfectly fine, and people are massively overreacting to the nerf.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7755/pet-dps-updated#latest

 

Check this post.

 

Also your confusion dps count is dubious at best.....

There're so many things to consider when you test confusion proc...

That 5459 definitely is not damage PER SECOND.

 

Also I like how you conveniently ignore the confusion proc damage BEFORE 5/08/18 patch.

I'm saying comparatively the new Iboga dm is lower than even before the bug fix of bonus damage on AA not applied.

 

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > > You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

> > >

> > > The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

> > > This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

> > >

> > > There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

> >

> > This is not true from my quick testing (For PvE raiding):

> >

> > Before 05/08/18 the Iboga was weaker than the Jacaranda at every raid encounter. It was (to my knowledge) not used anywhere. Primarily due to confusion being extremely weak.

> >

> > After 05/22/18 (Current build) I recorded the following pet DPS using the most common Druid raid build (NM/Skirmishing/Druid).

> > 10 conditions on the target (Realistic) and the normal boons on the pet (Solid assumption given Fortifying Bond).

> >

> > Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> > Iboga = 2348 DPS + About 10 confusion.

> >

> > 10 confusion at the 1750 condition damage of the Iboga results in a confusion proc of: 10x1.25x((0.195x1750)+95.5) = **5459 damage**

> > This occurs every time the boss uses an ability, it also procs very often at fights like Mursaat Overseer despite him not physically doing anything.

> >

> > From my own observations most bosses proc confusion at a rate of once every ~3 seconds (MO) to once every second or more (Desmina). As a result, depending on the boss the confusion stacks are adding an extra **1820-5459 DPS** to the Iboga.

> >

> > So overall:

> > Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> > Iboga = 4168 - 7807 DPS

> > Making Iboga the best DPS pet to use at practically every situation (It even has CC).

> >

> > As always, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here. But it genuinely looks like the Iboga is still perfectly fine, and people are massively overreacting to the nerf.

>

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7755/pet-dps-updated#latest

>

> Check this post.

>

> Also your confusion dps count is dubious at best.....

> There're so many things to consider when you test confusion proc...

 

I've read @"Wondrouswall.7169"'s post (Good stuff!) but I retested in this case since raid builds don't normally use marksmanship or wilderness survival. Generally only Soulbeast builds use those traitlines, which are always perma merged with the pet.

 

What exactly is wrong with my confusion DPS calculation? I've recorded Mirage gameplay across most bosses to get an idea for confusions current power and it is proccing (and hitting hard!). Just note that arcDPS isn't measuring it very accurately if you want to test (Use GW2Helper).

[Aomine.5012]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > > > You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

> > > >

> > > > The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

> > > > This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

> > > >

> > > > There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

> > >

> > > This is not true from my quick testing (For PvE raiding):

> > >

> > > Before 05/08/18 the Iboga was weaker than the Jacaranda at every raid encounter. It was (to my knowledge) not used anywhere. Primarily due to confusion being extremely weak.

> > >

> > > After 05/22/18 (Current build) I recorded the following pet DPS using the most common Druid raid build (NM/Skirmishing/Druid).

> > > 10 conditions on the target (Realistic) and the normal boons on the pet (Solid assumption given Fortifying Bond).

> > >

> > > Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> > > Iboga = 2348 DPS + About 10 confusion.

> > >

> > > 10 confusion at the 1750 condition damage of the Iboga results in a confusion proc of: 10x1.25x((0.195x1750)+95.5) = **5459 damage**

> > > This occurs every time the boss uses an ability, it also procs very often at fights like Mursaat Overseer despite him not physically doing anything.

> > >

> > > From my own observations most bosses proc confusion at a rate of once every ~3 seconds (MO) to once every second or more (Desmina). As a result, depending on the boss the confusion stacks are adding an extra **1820-5459 DPS** to the Iboga.

> > >

> > > So overall:

> > > Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> > > Iboga = 4168 - 7807 DPS

> > > Making Iboga the best DPS pet to use at practically every situation (It even has CC).

> > >

> > > As always, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here. But it genuinely looks like the Iboga is still perfectly fine, and people are massively overreacting to the nerf.

> >

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7755/pet-dps-updated#latest

> >

> > Check this post.

> >

> > Also your confusion dps count is dubious at best.....

> > There're so many things to consider when you test confusion proc...

>

> I've read @"Wondrouswall.7169"'s post (Good stuff!) but I retested in this case since raid builds don't normally use marksmanship or wilderness survival. Generally only Soulbeast builds use those traitlines, which are always perma merged with the pet.

>

> What exactly is wrong with my confusion DPS calculation? I've recorded Mirage gameplay across most bosses to get an idea for confusions current power and it is proccing (and hitting hard!). Just note that arcDPS isn't measuring it very accurately if you want to test (Use GW2Helper).

 

I'm literally testing on raid golem right now..

 

The confusion proc damage is so much lower than you claimed.

There's no-way it could be 5489 damage PER SECOND.

 

This is pet, not your mirage.

 

Most of the damage comes from AA.

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > > > > You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

> > > > >

> > > > > The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

> > > > > This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

> > > > >

> > > > > There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

> > > >

> > > > This is not true from my quick testing (For PvE raiding):

> > > >

> > > > Before 05/08/18 the Iboga was weaker than the Jacaranda at every raid encounter. It was (to my knowledge) not used anywhere. Primarily due to confusion being extremely weak.

> > > >

> > > > After 05/22/18 (Current build) I recorded the following pet DPS using the most common Druid raid build (NM/Skirmishing/Druid).

> > > > 10 conditions on the target (Realistic) and the normal boons on the pet (Solid assumption given Fortifying Bond).

> > > >

> > > > Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> > > > Iboga = 2348 DPS + About 10 confusion.

> > > >

> > > > 10 confusion at the 1750 condition damage of the Iboga results in a confusion proc of: 10x1.25x((0.195x1750)+95.5) = **5459 damage**

> > > > This occurs every time the boss uses an ability, it also procs very often at fights like Mursaat Overseer despite him not physically doing anything.

> > > >

> > > > From my own observations most bosses proc confusion at a rate of once every ~3 seconds (MO) to once every second or more (Desmina). As a result, depending on the boss the confusion stacks are adding an extra **1820-5459 DPS** to the Iboga.

> > > >

> > > > So overall:

> > > > Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> > > > Iboga = 4168 - 7807 DPS

> > > > Making Iboga the best DPS pet to use at practically every situation (It even has CC).

> > > >

> > > > As always, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here. But it genuinely looks like the Iboga is still perfectly fine, and people are massively overreacting to the nerf.

> > >

> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7755/pet-dps-updated#latest

> > >

> > > Check this post.

> > >

> > > Also your confusion dps count is dubious at best.....

> > > There're so many things to consider when you test confusion proc...

> >

> > I've read @"Wondrouswall.7169"'s post (Good stuff!) but I retested in this case since raid builds don't normally use marksmanship or wilderness survival. Generally only Soulbeast builds use those traitlines, which are always perma merged with the pet.

> >

> > What exactly is wrong with my confusion DPS calculation? I've recorded Mirage gameplay across most bosses to get an idea for confusions current power and it is proccing (and hitting hard!). Just note that arcDPS isn't measuring it very accurately if you want to test (Use GW2Helper).

>

> I'm literally testing on raid golem right now..

>

> The confusion proc damage is so much lower than you claimed.

> There's no-way it could be 5489 damage PER SECOND.

>

> This is pet, not your mirage.

>

> Most of the damage comes from AA.

 

Are you on the DPS golem? That doesn't proc confusion. You might be seeing just the passive ticks.

 

I didn't calculate confusion for the old Iboga since the old confusion damage was much weaker. Most rangers agreed that the Jacaranda was previously stronger than the Iboga, hence I used that as a comparison here.