MM Rank should be per profession not account wide

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > You forgot to add that it makes no sense... I wonder if there's any single competitive game out there that does anything remotely similar to this.

> >

> > A previous MMO I played ranked each character separately. Granted there were many differences with the system in general, but each toon had it's own placement in rankings so you could potentially have several in the top 100/250 on the same account (if you were good enough). There was no character/class swapping permitted so the system made sense (also gear was a major factor in pvp arena and around the time I left the game they introduced a new "gear rating system" which contributed to how you were matched).

> >

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > > As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

> > >

> > > I'm curious as to why this can't be done without removing class swapping?

> > > If I were to try to manipulate the system under these rules, I would queue as a mesmer to tank my MMR to get on a better team, then switch to thief .

> >

> > There's your answer. Once you are matched with the other 9 players, their MMR is locked in. If you change to a "higher MMR" character, you're throwing the teams out of balance since the system cannot adjust your opponents MMR or provide you with a tougher enemy. This would consistently be exploited since people can use a low MMR character to queue and switch to their main in the 60 seconds pre-match. Their "queuing alt" would never complete any matches so therefore would not increase it's MMR and they can continue to fight against lower tier people.

> >

>

> And again, your MMR gain for winning would be proportionately lower. This is a mental problem and not a real one.

>

> Furthermore, you can already do this with alt accounts. You want to know why the match making system is trash right now? It's because people can tank their alt accounts and then use their alts to help boost their buddies' MMR. This whole win trading thing is a not quite a lie, but it's not quite true to say that win trading is the cause of all the trash match making either.

 

But the WINNING will be proportionately HIGHER!! I know you don't know what's like playing a competitive pvp match. Current GW2 isn't like that, i know. But seriously, the point of the MMR system is to provide competitive decently balanced matches, not just allow you to farm people with your best class after gaming the system.

 

In fact, the only people that really ask for this are the one-trick-ponies. That can only really play a single class, or exploit the latest op class, instead of learning how to play the damn game. Actually good PvP players will have fairly similar results with whatever class they play. Sure some are fairly mechanically heavy and there will always be a curve. But nothing that would warrant this. Besides, if you want to learn a class, play Hot-Join or Unranked, that's exactly the point of those game modes.

 

If PvP was properly handled, this wouldn't even be an issue, but with the shoddy balance and the Mayfly-ish lifespan of the Seasons, it's no wonder that people just want to farm the most, and not "waste time" learning the classes.

 

The Match making system is not trash. The GW2 pvp community is simply not enough for it to work properly, and of course there's the people that abuse it. It's not their fault, not really, they were "taught" to use PvP as a farm for PvE goodies, and that's how they use it. And everything is set-up for that, teams were removed to facilitate the exploitation of the shoddy balance, Rewards are given for number of games, not game result. Rank means little, except for a few titles. And that's the state of PvP. A wasteland mostly people just interested in farming as many games as they want, that don't give a damn about the game mode, just the fastest route to their rewards.

 

PvP is a broken, poorly managed thing, and despite @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" efforts, if the PvP team doesn't man up and risk pissing off a few players they'll never stop the downward spiral.

 

[Math.5123]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

>

> I mean honestly class swapping being eliminated would improve pvp a decent amount. If you could expand on if you agree with the community or not would be great. Or if anyone who voted to keep it could detail out why. It seems silly to allow a team to completely swing favor based on being able to stack classes.

 

Many games are decided on comp alone. This means that ArenaNet wouldn't just have to mirror comps. They would also have to mirror builds in order to create fair matches.

Imaging being core guard + reaper vs Firebrand + scourge for example.

 

People didn't feel like putting their fate in ArenaNets hands in terms of being able to reliably climb.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

> >

> > I mean honestly class swapping being eliminated would improve pvp a decent amount. If you could expand on if you agree with the community or not would be great. Or if anyone who voted to keep it could detail out why. It seems silly to allow a team to completely swing favor based on being able to stack classes.

>

> Many games are decided on comp alone. This means that ArenaNet wouldn't just have to mirror comps. They would also have to mirror builds in order to create fair matches.

> Imaging being core guard + reaper vs Firebrand + scourge for example.

>

> People didn't feel like putting their fate in ArenaNets hands in terms of being able to reliably climb.

 

Mirroring classes is hard enough, build would be close to impossible, plus nothing stops people from changing pre-match. Personally I don't see a problem with character-swapping. If I come in on a scourge and see an anti-scourge comp of rangers and thieves on the other side, I'll change. Some people would want to berate me for this but why should I force myself to play at a disadvantage when I have the option to freely pick another class?

The thing is, class swapping is only considered bad because some people try to unbalance the comps, but consider this - both teams have access to the option.

I've been in matches where out of the 10 players present - **SIX** _changed_ to scourge (3 from each team) . That's a community problem and in my opinion, we should not ask ANet to police this.

 

What perhaps **would** make a difference is **not** being able to see the opposing team until the match begins. This would mean that pre-match, you cannot see other classes, players, characters, names - anything to indicate who you are up against. Teams would probably be less likely to risk stacking a class in case that puts them at a disadvantage.

I'd say, test this out for a week if possible, then, if there is enough positive feedback, introduce it to ranked **only**.

[Miyu.8137]

I like the idea. The first poll I voted for allowing players to switch while in the prematch window. But if proffession MMR would be implemented then i would vote opossite.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

 

Is the profession MMR used to adjust the rating you win/lose depending on the match outcome at least? Say you are best at thief, and queue up as thief, into roughly equally matched teams according to the matchmaker, but switch to a different class because you already have a thief on your team, is the rating gain/loss of everyone in the match then adjusted based on the new team MMRs? Or, going the other way, what if you are playing a class you aren't that good at, see the other team's composition and then switch to thief to have a better chance, is the rating gain/loss of everyone in the match adjusted based on the fact that your team's MMR just effectively went up since you are significantly better on thief?

[Legatus.3608]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > > As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

> > >

> > > I mean honestly class swapping being eliminated would improve pvp a decent amount. If you could expand on if you agree with the community or not would be great. Or if anyone who voted to keep it could detail out why. It seems silly to allow a team to completely swing favor based on being able to stack classes.

> >

> > Many games are decided on comp alone. This means that ArenaNet wouldn't just have to mirror comps. They would also have to mirror builds in order to create fair matches.

> > Imaging being core guard + reaper vs Firebrand + scourge for example.

> >

> > People didn't feel like putting their fate in ArenaNets hands in terms of being able to reliably climb.

>

> Mirroring classes is hard enough, build would be close to impossible, plus nothing stops people from changing pre-match. Personally I don't see a problem with character-swapping. If I come in on a scourge and see an anti-scourge comp of rangers and thieves on the other side, I'll change. Some people would want to berate me for this but why should I force myself to play at a disadvantage when I have the option to freely pick another class?

> The thing is, class swapping is only considered bad because some people try to unbalance the comps, but consider this - both teams have access to the option.

> I've been in matches where out of the 10 players present - **SIX** _changed_ to scourge (3 from each team) . That's a community problem and in my opinion, we should not ask ANet to police this.

>

> What perhaps **would** make a difference is **not** being able to see the opposing team until the match begins. This would mean that pre-match, you cannot see other classes, players, characters, names - anything to indicate who you are up against. Teams would probably be less likely to risk stacking a class in case that puts them at a disadvantage.

> I'd say, test this out for a week if possible, then, if there is enough positive feedback, introduce it to ranked **only**.

 

How is 6 people changing to scourge a community problem? If you see an anti-scourge comp, you change out of scourge. Other players see anti-whatever comps and they change back into scourge. It's no different. People will play whatever they think they need to play in order to increase their odds of success. The problem would be that scourge is giving them a higher chance of success in too many scenarios.