Mesmer update discussion - May 22 patch notes

[otto.5684]

The changes are a bandaid. The phantasm farm with chrono was surely a bad design. Though the resloution was to change the design not nerf the rebirth trait by 50% then the phantasms by another 50%. Same thing with stability. They should have substituted it with something else. At 1 sec, it is the equivalent of being removed.

 

This is the third patch with only bandaids. We cannot have (and we do not have) a functional class balance like this.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"Urejt.5648" said:

> very good changes. Warlock should deal slightly less dmg than other comparable skills because player gains tons of beneftits from spawning extra phatasms.

 

It already did. Now it deals vastly less damage.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > @"Urejt.5648" said:

> > very good changes. Warlock should deal slightly less dmg than other comparable skills because player gains tons of beneftits from spawning extra phatasms.

>

> It already did. Now it deals vastly less damage.

 

And staff remains the best mesmer PvP weapon despite this.

[Scud.5067]

Keep them coming. My main at launch was Mesmer. Over the years the class has gotten a little too good.

 

We could do with a trim!

[Lalainnia.3598]

Warlocks whole purpose should never have honestly been damage in pvp it applies 12 stacks of vul and 20 if you take chronophantasm even if the duration on the vul stacks aren't long it's not difficult by any means to take advantage of with a shatter. On top of all that warlocks are great clone generation fodder summoning 2 clones after they finish. The fact that they were doing such high damage on top of everything else they already did in a pvp setting was just silly.

[apharma.3741]

Bountiful Disillusionment: 1s stab is a bad joke, they might as well have BD make fart noises instead of have stab. If they want it to have stab it needs to be longer than 1s, if stab is a problem on every shatter put it on 1 shatter. If the trait already does plenty then remove the stab.

 

Illusionary defence: Who would have thought stacking damage reduction would do this? I’d rather see the trait changed and not more damage reduction, protection is fine for mes as it is more about active defence than tanking damage.

 

Defender: Yeah sure I don’t care about defender and the damage component was weird anyway.

 

Disenchanter: I would have rather this does increased damage per boon removed and seen the damage go down a bit not as much as 50% though.

 

Phantasmal warlock: ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (breathes) ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (wipes away tears). Where on earth did that come from? That’s just silly, it didn’t do a lot of damage anyway.

 

Illusionary avenger: Can we have a cool down reduction please or at least have the cool down start at the end of the first block again? Right now it’s probably the highest cool down shield skill in the game or very close to it.

 

Also these 50% nerfs, 50% is a lot, why not reduce by 20% every month till it’s in a good place?

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > @"Urejt.5648" said:

> > > very good changes. Warlock should deal slightly less dmg than other comparable skills because player gains tons of beneftits from spawning extra phatasms.

> >

> > It already did. Now it deals vastly less damage.

>

> And staff remains the best mesmer PvP weapon despite this.

 

Yeah, because since launch PvP users of staff have basically pretended that the 3 and 4 skills don't exist. That hasn't changed, but it's not a good thing.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

Who are these 'Illusionary Warlock also did such high damage' people? Is there some sort of forgotten circle of thought that ignores actual numbers?

[apharma.3741]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > @"Urejt.5648" said:

> > > very good changes. Warlock should deal slightly less dmg than other comparable skills because player gains tons of beneftits from spawning extra phatasms.

> >

> > It already did. Now it deals vastly less damage.

>

> And staff remains the best mesmer PvP weapon despite this.

 

What else will you run if you have sword shield? Sceptre mainhand? Greatsword? Nope not defensive.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> The fact that they were doing such high damage on top of everything else they already did in a pvp setting was just silly.

 

Hmmm.

 

>such high damage

 

The warlock had a skill coefficient of .45. A 600 range spatial surge has a skill coefficient of .9. This means that together the 2 warlocks did as much damage as a single gs autoattack.

 

Now granted, "such high damage" is somewhat subjective, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to justify that assertion.

[Lalainnia.3598]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > The fact that they were doing such high damage on top of everything else they already did in a pvp setting was just silly.

>

> Hmmm.

>

> >such high damage

>

> The warlock had a skill coefficient of .45. A 600 range spatial surge has a skill coefficient of .9. This means that together the 2 warlocks did as much damage as a single gs autoattack.

>

> Now granted, "such high damage" is somewhat subjective, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to justify that assertion.

 

Yes the warlocks damage was to high considering everything else it already provided " its why I said "on top of everything else it did". With the way the new phantasms work and the fact that they no longer have a limit made it even stronger having 20 stacks of tracking vul applied to a enemy while you can set up a burst combo is extremely potent. Can't just look at things as a solo entity the entire kit is what makes a great deal of things so crazy in spvp. Like comparing it to Spacial surge is just strange are you implying spacial surge does bad damage? Its one of the strongest long ranged #1 attacks in the game since it got buffed in like feb.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > The fact that they were doing such high damage on top of everything else they already did in a pvp setting was just silly.

> >

> > Hmmm.

> >

> > >such high damage

> >

> > The warlock had a skill coefficient of .45. A 600 range spatial surge has a skill coefficient of .9. This means that together the 2 warlocks did as much damage as a single gs autoattack.

> >

> > Now granted, "such high damage" is somewhat subjective, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to justify that assertion.

>

> Yes the warlocks damage was to high considering everything else it already provided " its why I said "on top of everything else it did". With the way the new phantasms work and the fact that they no longer have a limit made it even stronger having 20 stacks of tracking vul applied to a enemy while you can set up a burst combo is extremely potent. Can't just look at things as a solo entity the entire kit is what makes a great deal of things so crazy in spvp. Like comparing it to Spacial surge is just strange are you implying spacial surge does bad damage? Its one of the strongest long ranged #1 attacks in the game since it got buffed in like feb.

 

Just to make this clear for everybody, you're arguing that the phantasm did too much damage when the combined damage was equal to a single close range autoattack from greatsword?

[Lalainnia.3598]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > > The fact that they were doing such high damage on top of everything else they already did in a pvp setting was just silly.

> > >

> > > Hmmm.

> > >

> > > >such high damage

> > >

> > > The warlock had a skill coefficient of .45. A 600 range spatial surge has a skill coefficient of .9. This means that together the 2 warlocks did as much damage as a single gs autoattack.

> > >

> > > Now granted, "such high damage" is somewhat subjective, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to justify that assertion.

> >

> > Yes the warlocks damage was to high considering everything else it already provided " its why I said "on top of everything else it did". With the way the new phantasms work and the fact that they no longer have a limit made it even stronger having 20 stacks of tracking vul applied to a enemy while you can set up a burst combo is extremely potent. Can't just look at things as a solo entity the entire kit is what makes a great deal of things so crazy in spvp. Like comparing it to Spacial surge is just strange are you implying spacial surge does bad damage? Its one of the strongest long ranged #1 attacks in the game since it got buffed in like feb.

>

> Just to make this clear for everybody, you're arguing that the phantasm did too much damage when the combined damage was equal to a single close range autoattack from greatsword?

 

Yes when taking into account what it does which is apply vul and 2 clones when it was complete since you want to keep leaving that part out. If the warlocks only dealt damage then the damage nerf would have been unjustified.

[Eypheha.5831]

Yep, Mesmer nerfed again while Necro and thief aren't touched. Sad...Why does Anet hate mesmers and love their pet thief? Six changes to Mesmer...all reductions in damage. Thief gets a little touch up to make em more reliably stealthy. Gods...why bother playing my Mesmer anymore. Everyone should just run guards, thieves and necromaniacs. If I play a necro, I can close my eyes and run forward spamming 1,2,3...mark!

[Huskyboy.1053]

> @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > Yes the warlocks damage was to high considering everything else it already provided " its why I said "on top of everything else it did". With the way the new phantasms work and the fact that they no longer have a limit made it even stronger having 20 stacks of tracking vul applied to a enemy while you can set up a burst combo is extremely potent. Can't just look at things as a solo entity the entire kit is what makes a great deal of things so crazy in spvp. Like comparing it to Spacial surge is just strange are you implying spacial surge does bad damage? Its one of the strongest long ranged #1 attacks in the game since it got buffed in like feb.

> >

> > Just to make this clear for everybody, you're arguing that the phantasm did too much damage when the combined damage was equal to a single close range autoattack from greatsword?

>

> Yes when taking into account what it does which is apply vul and 2 clones when it was complete since you want to keep leaving that part out. If the warlocks only dealt damage then the damage nerf would have been unjustified.

 

Exactly. Mesmer's highest damage comes from shatters, and shatters get their damage from clone generation. Did Mind Wrack get nerfed? **No**. Did they revert phantasms such that they don't convert into a clone? **No**. Did they revert Warlock such that it only spawns one phantasm? **No**.

 

They nerfed a skill that didn't do much damage such that it does much less damage... who cares? How does this significantly affect your gameplay as a staff mesmer? It's a weird nerf but it's also a weird issue for people to dispute. If you're failing to kill somebody because Warlock got nerfed, that should be a sign you're messing up your actual burst.

[DragonSlayer.1087]

lol. I knew something was up when I played earlier. Now NERF the Scourge devs!

[Imperadordf.2687]

I agree with most of the changes and I think some people are over-dramatizing things here. **BUT BUT BUT**

 

iWarlock nerf? O M E G A L U L

 

And instead of 1 second stab they could've made it so only F2 and F3 were giving stab. I don't get that change either.

[Vieux P.1238]

WOW..Mesmer got STOMPED all across the board. I can damage peeps at all on none of my builds.. Sup Anet hya doing?

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> I agree with most of the changes and I think some people are over-dramatizing things here. **BUT BUT BUT**

>

> iWarlock nerf? O M E G A L U L

>

> And instead of 1 second stab they could've made it so only F2 and F3 were giving stab. I don't get that change either.

 

Yeah, F4 doesn't even need stab, so they could have instead just limited it to one or two shatters.

[mortrialus.3062]

I'm pretty sure the Echo of Memory 50% nerf was PvP WvW only. I'm still getting 8k Illusory Avenger crits in PvE casual scenarios.

[Remilia Scarlet.3205]

Warlock, Disenchanter and Echo are the MAIN source of damage for chorono in PVP. I understand Anet thought the build of disenchanter with Signet of Ether maybe have high damage. But for build without Signet of Ether, the damage of chrono would become a joke. It is Signet of Ether u should nerf but not the phantasms.

Anyway, 50% is a huge modification for a skill. Chronophantasma on the previous balance, phantasms on this balance. Keep making changes like this makes Anet balance team not trustable. The balance of this game is more and more like WOW. You would be forced to play classes that stronge in each balance. You couldn't stay in the class that u like, since it would be nerfed to ground just in one patch.

R.I.P the PVP of this game.

[ZeteCommander.4937]

Have Anet recruited a designer from WOW？ What puzzles me most is staff ，what is the reason for the change of the Warlock？tell me why?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> Have Anet recruited a designer from WOW？ What puzzles me most is staff ，what is the reason for the change of the Warlock？tell me why?

 

I dunno. I remember thinking it was really weird when it was actually hitting for some solid power damage back when I was trying out Demo Mirage when that was a thing immediately after the phantasm rework. I'm guessing that they just thought the same thing after while since even mediocre damage has never been what staff is about.

[apharma.3741]

The biggest concern that I don’t see many talking about is where this pushes the class in general. These are some very large nerfs and 50% damage reductions really shouldn’t be handed out in anything but absolute extreme “we need to fix this absolutely now before it ruins the game” moments so really emergencies.

 

Sustained damage has been gutted, there isn’t a decent sustained power damage build anymore so mesmers will now have to go mirage. So then we will see condition builds but not many enjoyed this, they didn’t enjoy fighting it, some didn’t enjoy playing it and some are tired of it as it was the best sustained damage build mesmers had towards the back year of HoT.

 

When that gets gutted, because it will, what’s next? Power shatter being the only really viable build I think, even now people are still complaining over it and it’s not healthy to have 100-0 builds running around.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> The biggest concern that I don’t see many talking about is where this pushes the class in general. These are some very large nerfs and 50% damage reductions really shouldn’t be handed out in anything but absolute extreme “we need to fix this absolutely now before it ruins the game” moments so really emergencies.

>

> Sustained damage has been gutted, there isn’t a decent sustained power damage build anymore so mesmers will now have to go mirage. So then we will see condition builds but not many enjoyed this, they didn’t enjoy fighting it, some didn’t enjoy playing it and some are tired of it as it was the best sustained damage build mesmers had towards the back year of HoT.

>

> When that gets gutted, because it will, what’s next? Power shatter being the only really viable build I think, even now people are still complaining over it and it’s not healthy to have 100-0 builds running around.

 

The complaining won't end. Because people don't like fighting Mesmers. Mesmer will be one of the bandwagon classes every single time so... We better get used to it. :v