My opinion about raids

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> The problem there is that games on a demo disc weren't interlinked. If you didn't want to play one of those games, you just didn't play it. It wasn't like you needed to complete the demo to Warhawk to unlock a cool skin for Jumping Flash. The problem here is that whether raiders like it or not, the raids *do* lock out story content that matters to people who play the rest of GW2, and they DO lock out skins that matter to those players as well, and as long as that remains true, players have good reason to want to break down that wall. I'm 100% behind you getting the raiding mode you want and leaving it well alone, *so long as* the remaining players can also get what they want in their own copy of the experience.

 

 

Why do you always miss the point ?

 

At no point in time is any single player locked out from doing raids. **YOU"VE MADE THAT CHOICE FOR YOURSELF**. You need to learn to come to terms with this. Your choices in life have prohibited you not the game, not some systemic evil or the playerbase. **You**.

 

There is no story in raids that you are locked out of. Anet has bent over backwards to provide you with ways to experience it. So stop trying to use this lame false equivocation when it's plainly clear all you want is the rewards. It's never been about story for you. Heck it's never been about raiding for you either.

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > The problem there is that games on a demo disc weren't interlinked. If you didn't want to play one of those games, you just didn't play it. It wasn't like you needed to complete the demo to Warhawk to unlock a cool skin for Jumping Flash. The problem here is that whether raiders like it or not, the raids *do* lock out story content that matters to people who play the rest of GW2, and they DO lock out skins that matter to those players as well, and as long as that remains true, players have good reason to want to break down that wall. I'm 100% behind you getting the raiding mode you want and leaving it well alone, *so long as* the remaining players can also get what they want in their own copy of the experience.

>

> There is no story in raids that you are locked out of. Anet has bent over backwards to provide you with ways to experience it.

 

How have they bent over backwards? I don’t see any story mode for W4 and W5. They are using story plots from gw1 that were left dangling.

 

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> How have they bent over backwards? I don’t see any story mode for W4 and W5. They are using story plots from gw1 that were left dangling.

 

Adding Glenna's recap feature for w1-3/Bennet's explanation of his events for LS2. Wing 4 is completely stand alone and arguably the easiest wing they've produced. It also has the unique design of having all of the story being available after the fights by just walking through it and exploring.

 

I cant say much on Wing 5 but that's because i haven't gone into wing 5 since my static is bored of GW2. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not designed in a very similar way which allows you to talk to the NPC/explore to get the majority of the story.

 

But sure lets continue down this almost comical path of ANet excluding you from the story when the reality is much simpler than that, you've made your beds not to raid for whatever reason and want to complain.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

>At no point in time is any single player locked out from doing raids. YOU"VE MADE THAT CHOICE FOR YOURSELF. You need to learn to come to terms with this. Your choices in life have prohibited you not the game, not some systemic evil or the playerbase. You.

 

No, it's not my choice. I can't choose to enjoy the raids in their current form. I **NEVER** will enjoy them as they are today, and nothing you or I could ever do could possibly change that. So I don't have a good choice here, a choice where one of the outcomes could potentially make me happy. I can only choose to engage in content I could never enjoy, OR I could never get the rewards and story experience that I would like to have. Two bad options.

 

Present me a GOOD option and I will shut up, *instantly.*

 

Until then, just accept that what you're selling, I will never buy.

 

>Adding Glenna's recap feature for w1-3/Bennet's explanation of his events for LS2.

 

A recap is not a gaming experience. Period.

 

>I cant say much on Wing 5 but that's because i haven't gone into wing 5 since my static is bored of GW2.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if you could just log in and join a random pug, and stand a solid chance of completing it anyway? No statics required? Everyone would benefit from that.

 

 

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > How have they bent over backwards? I don’t see any story mode for W4 and W5. They are using story plots from gw1 that were left dangling.

>

> Adding Glenna's recap feature for w1-3/Bennet's explanation of his events for LS2. Wing 4 is completely stand alone and arguably the easiest wing they've produced. It also has the unique design of having all of the story being available after the fights by just walking through it and exploring.

>

> I cant say much on Wing 5 but that's because i haven't gone into wing 5 since my static is bored of GW2. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not designed in a very similar way which allows you to talk to the NPC/explore to get the majority of the story.

>

> But sure lets continue down this almost comical path of ANet excluding you from the story when the reality is much simpler than that, you've made your beds not to raid for whatever reason and want to complain.

 

You are mistaken, Tex, I don’t think anything about this is funny. I don’t think the plight of your fellow gamer should be something that you should find amusing in the first place. Perhaps a bit of empathy is in order.

 

When you enter a cleared wing 4 you get a bit of dialogue on Saul, which really isn’t saying you get all the story. It’s like watching the very end of a movie, where people are explaining what had occurred as being sufficient enough to not watch the entirety of the film. The same goes for Wing 5.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > I think the point is "you can't design an entire mode of the game for a small, specific subgroup of community, while at the same time providing incentives that are supposed to pull into that mode players from outside of said subgroup". Well, obviously you can, but that's simply a bad design. Because there's no way that's not going to cause a lot of problems.

> > > >

> > > > Only that's how game modes work. Every piece of content and game mode has its own unique rewards, and those that did not for a time, are getting some because even Arenanet figured that giving rewards from multiple pieces of content wasn't working. It's not bad design, it's basic game design.

> > > > Is it causing a lot of problems though? When things -actually- cause problems there is a response. But this specific subject there has been none, unless you call a problem some loud posters on the official forums. If it WAS a problem then you'd either get a response, or at the very least see reactions from the entire community, outside this forum, that would in turn cause a response. I think this entire "it's bad design and it causes problems" thing is being blown way out of proportions here.

> > >

> > > Giving a niche group of players raids is fine. Giving unique rewards is like Oblivion, Matthias Staff, Saul staff etc. Is fine too. My beef is slapping something like Legendary Armor behind Raids is where my gears begin to grind.

> >

> > How is it any different than "slapping" something like Ad Infinitum behind fractals? It requires quite a bit of dedication to get as well. In either case you have alternatives in PvP and WvW.

>

> Then they should have made a raid Legendary back pack and left it at that.

 

this would have been a great idea.. too bad Anet didn't think of it.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> I cant say much on Wing 5 but that's because i haven't gone into wing 5 since my static is bored of GW2. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not designed in a very similar way which allows you to talk to the NPC/explore to get the majority of the story.

>

 

What? a veteran raider like yourself can't just make a squad and go do a raid with 10 random people like raiders suggest casual do to learn raids?

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > I cant say much on Wing 5 but that's because i haven't gone into wing 5 since my static is bored of GW2. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not designed in a very similar way which allows you to talk to the NPC/explore to get the majority of the story.

> >

>

> What? a veteran raider like yourself can't just make a squad and go do a raid with 10 random people like raiders suggest casual do to learn raids?

 

He definitely could. He just chose not to do it.

[Wildfang.3271]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > I cant say much on Wing 5 but that's because i haven't gone into wing 5 since my static is bored of GW2. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not designed in a very similar way which allows you to talk to the NPC/explore to get the majority of the story.

> >

>

> What? a veteran raider like yourself can't just make a squad and go do a raid with 10 random people like raiders suggest casual do to learn raids?

 

Well, he just chose not to do it nor did he make any complaints about not being able to do that raid. He only said that he didn't know much about wing 5 to be able to comment about how the story is structured. I would suggest refraining from twisting his words into something he never said in a vain attempt to score a point.

[maddoctor.2738]

Interesting how another thread that is about Raids turned into a rewards argument. Didn't we all agree on that other thread that we disagree on the subject?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > I think the point is "you can't design an entire mode of the game for a small, specific subgroup of community, while at the same time providing incentives that are supposed to pull into that mode players from outside of said subgroup". Well, obviously you can, but that's simply a bad design. Because there's no way that's not going to cause a lot of problems.

> > > >

> > > > Only that's how game modes work. Every piece of content and game mode has its own unique rewards, and those that did not for a time, are getting some because even Arenanet figured that giving rewards from multiple pieces of content wasn't working. It's not bad design, it's basic game design.

> > > > Is it causing a lot of problems though? When things -actually- cause problems there is a response. But this specific subject there has been none, unless you call a problem some loud posters on the official forums. If it WAS a problem then you'd either get a response, or at the very least see reactions from the entire community, outside this forum, that would in turn cause a response. I think this entire "it's bad design and it causes problems" thing is being blown way out of proportions here.

> > >

> > > Giving a niche group of players raids is fine. Giving unique rewards is like Oblivion, Matthias Staff, Saul staff etc. Is fine too. My beef is slapping something like Legendary Armor behind Raids is where my gears begin to grind.

> >

> > How is it any different than "slapping" something like Ad Infinitum behind fractals? It requires quite a bit of dedication to get as well. In either case you have alternatives in PvP and WvW.

>

> And if the roles were reversed and Envoy Armor was locked behind ranked pvp, who would honestly be happy with that situation. Honestly.

 

No, like I'm not happy with the best-looking legendary backpack being PvP. But I live with it.

 

And no, PvE already has a legendary backpack. Making a second one makes no sense. Especially since the groups of dedicated fractal players and raiders overlap heavily.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Interesting how another thread that is about Raids turned into a rewards argument. Didn't we all agree on that other thread that we disagree on the subject?

 

If you can point out a different way to unlock Envoy armor, then I'm all ears, but until then, they are intrinsically linked to raids, and an active part of any discussion about raids, always.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> >At no point in time is any single player locked out from doing raids. YOU"VE MADE THAT CHOICE FOR YOURSELF. You need to learn to come to terms with this. Your choices in life have prohibited you not the game, not some systemic evil or the playerbase. You.

>

> No, it's not my choice. I can't choose to enjoy the raids in their current form. I **NEVER** will enjoy them as they are today, and nothing you or I could ever do could possibly change that. So I don't have a good choice here, a choice where one of the outcomes could potentially make me happy. I can only choose to engage in content I could never enjoy, OR I could never get the rewards and story experience that I would like to have. Two bad options.

>

> Present me a GOOD option and I will shut up, *instantly.*

>

> Until then, just accept that what you're selling, I will never buy.

>

> >Adding Glenna's recap feature for w1-3/Bennet's explanation of his events for LS2.

>

> A recap is not a gaming experience. Period.

>

> >I cant say much on Wing 5 but that's because i haven't gone into wing 5 since my static is bored of GW2.

>

> Wouldn't it be nice if you could just log in and join a random pug, and stand a solid chance of completing it anyway? No statics required? Everyone would benefit from that.

>

>

>

 

If this lock raids from you then I am locked from pvp, wvw and most open world. I guess I have to make a post about the fact that pvp dont have bots, wvw has low amount of action and openworld is too easy and since I dont enjoy it it has to be changed.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Interesting how another thread that is about Raids turned into a rewards argument. Didn't we all agree on that other thread that we disagree on the subject?

 

Just ignore him. He's always going to whine about getting the Envoy for free. It's obvious he's not getting that, so I don't even bother correcting his absurd claims.

[Tyson.5160]

I’ve heard you claim this before Butcher, but I’m curious on a couple things:

 

A ) did you get an insta 80 boost, as you would have had to play open world to obviously get to 80?

 

B ) is this really the game for you, if you hate like 90% of the content?

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

>If this lock raids from you then I am locked from pvp, wvw and most open world. I guess I have to make a post about the fact that pvp dont have bots, wvw has low amount of action and openworld is too easy and since I dont enjoy it it has to be changed.

 

Ok. I would like to help you, and agree with many of those points. Open world can be tricky to mess with, since you have to share it with everyone else, but maybe there's some way they could have optional "challenge maps" for open world maps.

[nia.4725]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> I’ve heard you claim this before Butcher, but I’m curious on a couple things:

>

> A ) did you get an insta 80 boost, as you would have had to play open world to obviously get to 80?

>

> B ) is this really the game for you, if you hate like 90% of the content?

 

He's saying locked out as not enjoying the content only on response to people like Ohoni claiming the same about raids.

 

It's obvious that no one is locked out of any content. He's not locked out of OW but neither is Ohoni from raids. But since some people keep insisting on this false argument, he makes an (obviously ironic) analogy.

 

So, A doesn't really make sense. Ofc he can access OW, but everyone can access raids too.

 

B... Really, if you don't enjoy OW or PvP or WvW that means that GW2 is not your game? This game has different things, let's just acknowledge that and let's also acknowledge that enjoying a lesser % of the game does not mean that you have less right to complain or that the game is not for you. Big news, now if the only content you really enjoy is raids, GW2 is not for you.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> B ) is this really the game for you, if you hate like 90% of the content?

 

I'm gonna ask the reverse, is this really NOT a game for someone that likes 90% of the content? Because we read non-sense like players stopping supporting the company or quitting the game because of Raids.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> I’ve heard you claim this before Butcher, but I’m curious on a couple things:

>

> A ) did you get an insta 80 boost, as you would have had to play open world to obviously get to 80?

>

> B ) is this really the game for you, if you hate like 90% of the content?

 

A ) no i didnt. I used tomes of knowlage to skip last 18 lvls. Still i would quit if i didnt rush to next story chapeter.

 

B ) it is for me since lvling takes less time, combat has more action. My friends wanted me to try gw for long time but before hot there was no part of the game that would interest me (group pve) and i didnt want to pay just to try. With raids introduced abd base game FTP i finaly could try and enjoy the game

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"nia.4725" said:

>So, A doesn't really make sense. Ofc he can access OW, but everyone can access raids too.

 

Not really the same thing. Raids have a much steeper barrier of entry.

 

>Really, if you don't enjoy OW or PvP or WvW that means that GW2 is not your game?

 

Kinda?

 

>Big news, now if the only content you really enjoy is raids, GW2 is not for you.

 

At the very least, this should disqualify you from deciding what GW2 should or should not do moving forward. I have no problem with people who *only* raids and do not engage with the entire rest of the game, so long as they don't make proclamations that people who *do* enjoy all those things "aren't deserving" of things that are in raids. If it would make *more* players happy to have access to those elements, then people who *only* raid should not have some right to gatekeep those features from them.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"nia.4725" said:

> >So, A doesn't really make sense. Ofc he can access OW, but everyone can access raids too.

>

> Not really the same thing. Raids have a much steeper barrier of entry.

>

> >Really, if you don't enjoy OW or PvP or WvW that means that GW2 is not your game?

>

> Kinda?

>

> >Big news, now if the only content you really enjoy is raids, GW2 is not for you.

>

> At the very least, this should disqualify you from deciding what GW2 should or should not do moving forward. I have no problem with people who *only* raids and do not engage with the entire rest of the game, so long as they don't make proclamations that people who *do* enjoy all those things "aren't deserving" of things that are in raids. If it would make *more* players happy to have access to those elements, then people who *only* raid should not have some right to gatekeep those features from them

 

Hope you relise that raiding basicaly lose you gold. And i do not play only raid. I play dungeons, fractals, raids and story. I sometimes do other stuff for short time. More importantly i am paying customer so i have same right to state my to decide gw2 future as you do.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > >So, A doesn't really make sense. Ofc he can access OW, but everyone can access raids too.

> >

> > Not really the same thing. Raids have a much steeper barrier of entry.

> >

> > >Really, if you don't enjoy OW or PvP or WvW that means that GW2 is not your game?

> >

> > Kinda?

> >

> > >Big news, now if the only content you really enjoy is raids, GW2 is not for you.

> >

> > At the very least, this should disqualify you from deciding what GW2 should or should not do moving forward. I have no problem with people who *only* raids and do not engage with the entire rest of the game, so long as they don't make proclamations that people who *do* enjoy all those things "aren't deserving" of things that are in raids. If it would make *more* players happy to have access to those elements, then people who *only* raid should not have some right to gatekeep those features from them

>

> Hope you relise that raiding basicaly lose you gold.

 

I've heard this. I don't necessarily support it. If this aspect bothers you, then argue that ANet should make some changes, maybe making the "right" foods easier to get ahold of or something. I don't know, I'm on your side on this one, but it's not really my fight to wage.

 

>I sometimes do other stuff for short time. More importantly i am paying customer so i have same right to state my to decide gw2 future as you do.

 

Sure, so long as it doesn't come into conflict with the greater good. A small amount of the community who only play a small amount of the content should not be able to determine what the rest of the players "deserve" to have, right?

[nia.4725]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > >So, A doesn't really make sense. Ofc he can access OW, but everyone can access raids too.

> > >

> > > Not really the same thing. Raids have a much steeper barrier of entry.

> > >

> > > >Really, if you don't enjoy OW or PvP or WvW that means that GW2 is not your game?

> > >

> > > Kinda?

> > >

> > > >Big news, now if the only content you really enjoy is raids, GW2 is not for you.

> > >

> > > At the very least, this should disqualify you from deciding what GW2 should or should not do moving forward. I have no problem with people who *only* raids and do not engage with the entire rest of the game, so long as they don't make proclamations that people who *do* enjoy all those things "aren't deserving" of things that are in raids. If it would make *more* players happy to have access to those elements, then people who *only* raid should not have some right to gatekeep those features from them

> >

> > Hope you relise that raiding basicaly lose you gold.

>

> I've heard this. I don't necessarily support it. If this aspect bothers you, then argue that ANet should make some changes, maybe making the "right" foods easier to get ahold of or something. I don't know, I'm on your side on this one, but it's not really my fight to wage.

>

> >I sometimes do other stuff for short time. More importantly i am paying customer so i have same right to state my to decide gw2 future as you do.

>

> Sure, so long as it doesn't come into conflict with the greater good. A small amount of the community who only play a small amount of the content should not be able to determine what the rest of the players "deserve" to have, right?

 

It's funny because you sound so entitled, Ohoni. Do you really think you have any right to decide anything? The only ones who have that right are Anet's employees, or more specifically, those Anet employees who have those rights or responsibilities, which I'm sure it's not all Anet's employees. Not you, not me. You're just a customer who decides to buy their product. And yeah Anet has to listen, but they do not owe anything to any of us, nor they must do anything specific nor they have to bend to our will and desires.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> Not really the same thing. Raids have a much steeper barrier of entry.

 

You don't even need a commander to open a raid and make your own squad via lfg.

If that's a steep barrier, then idk.

If you want to get into "serious" raiding, you have to do a little on your own. Like join training raids or join one of the various discord servers to train you.

I just fail to see how any of this is a steep barrier of entry.

 

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > >So, A doesn't really make sense. Ofc he can access OW, but everyone can access raids too.

> > >

> > > Not really the same thing. Raids have a much steeper barrier of entry.

> > >

> > > >Really, if you don't enjoy OW or PvP or WvW that means that GW2 is not your game?

> > >

> > > Kinda?

> > >

> > > >Big news, now if the only content you really enjoy is raids, GW2 is not for you.

> > >

> > > At the very least, this should disqualify you from deciding what GW2 should or should not do moving forward. I have no problem with people who *only* raids and do not engage with the entire rest of the game, so long as they don't make proclamations that people who *do* enjoy all those things "aren't deserving" of things that are in raids. If it would make *more* players happy to have access to those elements, then people who *only* raid should not have some right to gatekeep those features from them

> >

> > Hope you relise that raiding basicaly lose you gold.

>

> I've heard this. I don't necessarily support it. If this aspect bothers you, then argue that ANet should make some changes, maybe making the "right" foods easier to get ahold of or something. I don't know, I'm on your side on this one, but it's not really my fight to wage.

>

> >I sometimes do other stuff for short time. More importantly i am paying customer so i have same right to state my to decide gw2 future as you do.

>

> Sure, so long as it doesn't come into conflict with the greater good. A small amount of the community who only play a small amount of the content should not be able to determine what the rest of the players "deserve" to have, right?

 

It does. My vote has same power as yours. And i dont want more gold from raids. If I wanted gold i would do istan.