One thing about Raid being better than Fractal

[Ryudnard.2587]

It doesn't require +9 Agony.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

Fractals also naturally provide you with the items used to build your AR as you play them. Think of it as an in-game technical solution to gating access to the hardest content until players demonstrate the skill to play it. (With all the good, and bad, that comes from that.)

 

Do you prefer the player implemented gating instead? "link your 250 LI", "show your title", "meta or kick"...

[Blocki.4931]

Both require the player to know what they are doing, it's not that different at all

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> It doesn't require +9 Agony.

 

You only need +9 for Tier 4. If you don't have AR for T4, then you probably didn't play enough to handle T4.

 

Raids actually lack this mechanic, which leads to arbitrary player enforced gates, which usually are not as fair or well enforced. And lead to "elitism" claims.

If anything, Arena Net kinda failed by making Infusions tradable. If on one hand it's nice to help out returning players get into it faster, on the other hand it allows players to buy into the high end content without having a clue of what they're doing and then getting kicked for being useless, which then brings them here crying about elitism.

[MasterMoose.6034]

Idk. The buildup of required agony needed to get into T4s is pretty much what people ask for when they say things like "beginner raids" or "story mode raids". It's an all around win for the playerbase, imo.

[thrag.9740]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> Fractals also naturally provide you with the items used to build your AR as you play them. Think of it as an in-game technical solution to gating access to the hardest content until players demonstrate the skill to play it. (With all the good, and bad, that comes from that.)

>

> Do you prefer the player implemented gating instead? "link your 250 LI", "show your title", "meta or kick"...

 

I absolutely prefer those gates, are you joking? All you have to do is make your own group, or you know, actually socialize inside an mmo so that you play with friends you actually know, and those gates don't apply to you.

 

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

>

> You only need +9 for Tier 4. If you don't have AR for T4, then you probably didn't play enough to handle T4.

Many players, myself included, have dozens of sets of ascended armor, for dozens of builds. Getting them all AR'd out is a pointless chore. But something tells me you already knew that, you just choose to play ignorant so you can talk trash....

[thrag.9740]

> @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> It doesn't require +9 Agony.

 

Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

>

> Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

 

The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> Do you prefer the player implemented gating instead? "link your 250 LI", "show your title", "meta or kick"...

 

I'd rather have those player implemented gates, than blocking me from playing the character I want, when I want, with the people that I want to play with.

In other words, the Fractal system might (not sure about that) be better for pugs, but the Raid system is superior for organized static groups.

 

Static groups should always be more important than pugs

[Feanor.2358]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > Do you prefer the player implemented gating instead? "link your 250 LI", "show your title", "meta or kick"...

>

> I'd rather have those player implemented gates, than blocking me from playing the character I want, when I want, with the people that I want to play with.

> In other words, the Fractal system might (not sure about that) be better for pugs, but the Raid system is superior for organized static groups.

>

> Static groups should always be more important than pugs

 

Naah, the fractal system has the same gate. I always look for - or start myself - group with kp requirement. Link your cosmic essences so I know I'm not wasting my time.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > Fractals also naturally provide you with the items used to build your AR as you play them. Think of it as an in-game technical solution to gating access to the hardest content until players demonstrate the skill to play it. (With all the good, and bad, that comes from that.)

> >

> > Do you prefer the player implemented gating instead? "link your 250 LI", "show your title", "meta or kick"...

>

> I absolutely prefer those gates, are you joking? All you have to do is make your own group, or you know, actually socialize inside an mmo so that you play with friends you actually know, and those gates don't apply to you.

>

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> >

> > You only need +9 for Tier 4. If you don't have AR for T4, then you probably didn't play enough to handle T4.

> Many players, myself included, have dozens of sets of ascended armor, for dozens of builds. Getting them all AR'd out is a pointless chore. But something tells me you already knew that, you just choose to play ignorant so you can talk trash....

 

If only there was a way to easily extract the infusions and switch them around... Dang...

I guess pot calling the kettle black applies here?

 

Not to mention that you're not likely to be using all classes and all stat sets in Fractals at any given time, you can be intelligent, like all of us not complaining, and setup 2-3 characters with a "Fractal" set with full AR, and be done with that... Even if you have more than 3 different stat sets per character, i doubt that all 3 would be applicable to fractals.

 

Not to mention that if you're any good at it you can actually do T4 without AR, it only applies to some fractals, and some instabilities also prevent this, but for most of the classic fractals, only some Boss hits will apply Agony, and those can be dodged or blocked, so, the barrier to entry is just about the same as Raids. If you have a willing group, you can bypass the gates.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> >

> > Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

>

> The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

 

Everything is boring if you repeat it everyday for few years. For example raiders already express boredom with their content of choice and demand more.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Static groups should always be more important than pugs

 

The only thing that matters is where you find more players (aka money) - pugs or statics.

 

 

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > Fractals also naturally provide you with the items used to build your AR as you play them. Think of it as an in-game technical solution to gating access to the hardest content until players demonstrate the skill to play it. (With all the good, and bad, that comes from that.)

> >

> > Do you prefer the player implemented gating instead? "link your 250 LI", "show your title", "meta or kick"...

>

> I absolutely prefer those gates, are you joking?

 

No, not at all. My comment is quite serious. I gather you do prefer the player-implemented gating?

 

> All you have to do is make your own group, or you know, actually socialize inside an mmo so that you play with friends you actually know, and those gates don't apply to you.

 

Well, the same is true of player-implemented gating as mechanical gating here. I'm not honestly seeing the significant difference?

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> > >

> > > Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

> >

> > The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

>

> Everything is boring if you repeat it everyday for few years. For example raiders already express boredom with their content of choice and demand more.

 

It's not the same. Newer instances (not just raids) feature a lot more mechanics and are generally much more interesting and fun to play. Dungeons are just... old. Outdated.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> > > >

> > > > Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

> > >

> > > The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

> >

> > Everything is boring if you repeat it everyday for few years. For example raiders already express boredom with their content of choice and demand more.

>

> It's not the same. Newer instances (not just raids) feature a lot more mechanics and are generally much more interesting and fun to play. Dungeons are just... old. Outdated.

 

That's a statement I can agree with.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > Static groups should always be more important than pugs

> The only thing that matters is where you find more players (aka money) - pugs or statics.

 

If the game has a healthy population then statics should always be more than pugs.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > Static groups should always be more important than pugs

> > The only thing that matters is where you find more players (aka money) - pugs or statics.

>

> If the game has a healthy population then statics should always be more than pugs.

 

But we don't know the numbers ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > Static groups should always be more important than pugs

> > > The only thing that matters is where you find more players (aka money) - pugs or statics.

> >

> > If the game has a healthy population then statics should always be more than pugs.

>

> But we don't know the numbers ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Which is why I said *should*. We don't even have the numbers to know if the game population is healthy or not.

[thrag.9740]

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > > > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > > > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

> > > >

> > > > The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

> > >

> > > Everything is boring if you repeat it everyday for few years. For example raiders already express boredom with their content of choice and demand more.

> >

> > It's not the same. Newer instances (not just raids) feature a lot more mechanics and are generally much more interesting and fun to play. Dungeons are just... old. Outdated.

I didn't find dungeons boring, and neither did many of the players I ran them with. But as stated, we went years with only a single dungeon ever being added. That single dungeon had bad rewards relative to the difficulty of the content, and if I recall Anet only tried to fix that problem post hot by giving guaranteed aether skins (which of course then plummeted in price).

 

If we are just going to spew subjective opinion as fact, let me jump in. Dungeons had interesting tactics that were better suited for a casual game like gw2 in the form of daily content. If all you did was brute force your way through dungeons (killing every mob), then I am sure you did find them boring. But between utilizing well timed blast mechanics for stealth skips, portal skips, and reflects often being critical, I thought dungeons were cool. In fact, I think if we objectively measure how much people care about world record speed runs of dungeons vs raids, we will find that dungeons had a lot more innovation in their tactics and interest from the population.

 

Honestly, there have only been 2 interesting things I have ever seen unveiled in raid world record runs. The first was that you could skip a break bar on sloth by having high enough dps, the second was that you could use spellbreaker bubble to stop dhuum from getting boons. Dungeons on the other hand? Seemed like they had some interesting innovative tactic every path. Be it a mesmer splitting from the group to portal a group from 1 boss to another, or stealthing an npc for a long escort to stop mobs from agroing. Dungeons were littered with interesting quirks.

 

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > > Fractals also naturally provide you with the items used to build your AR as you play them. Think of it as an in-game technical solution to gating access to the hardest content until players demonstrate the skill to play it. (With all the good, and bad, that comes from that.)

> > >

> > > Do you prefer the player implemented gating instead? "link your 250 LI", "show your title", "meta or kick"...

> >

> > I absolutely prefer those gates, are you joking?

>

> No, not at all. My comment is quite serious. I gather you do prefer the player-implemented gating?

>

> > All you have to do is make your own group, or you know, actually socialize inside an mmo so that you play with friends you actually know, and those gates don't apply to you.

>

> Well, the same is true of player-implemented gating as mechanical gating here. I'm not honestly seeing the significant difference?

>

lol if your really that blind, then there is no way I can make you see.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > > > > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

> > > >

> > > > Everything is boring if you repeat it everyday for few years. For example raiders already express boredom with their content of choice and demand more.

> > >

> > > It's not the same. Newer instances (not just raids) feature a lot more mechanics and are generally much more interesting and fun to play. Dungeons are just... old. Outdated.

> >

> > That's a statement I can agree with.

> I didn't find dungeons boring, and neither did many of the players I ran them with. But as stated, we went years with only a single dungeon ever being added. That single dungeon had bad rewards relative to the difficulty of the content, and if I recall Anet only tried to fix that problem post hot by giving guaranteed aether skins (which of course then plummeted in price).

 

I'm agreeing with the statement that dungeons are outdated, not boring. But there's nothing we can do about it.

[thrag.9740]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > > > > > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

> > > > >

> > > > > Everything is boring if you repeat it everyday for few years. For example raiders already express boredom with their content of choice and demand more.

> > > >

> > > > It's not the same. Newer instances (not just raids) feature a lot more mechanics and are generally much more interesting and fun to play. Dungeons are just... old. Outdated.

> > >

> > > That's a statement I can agree with.

> > I didn't find dungeons boring, and neither did many of the players I ran them with. But as stated, we went years with only a single dungeon ever being added. That single dungeon had bad rewards relative to the difficulty of the content, and if I recall Anet only tried to fix that problem post hot by giving guaranteed aether skins (which of course then plummeted in price).

>

> I'm agreeing with the statement that dungeons are outdated, not boring. But there's nothing we can do about it.

 

opps sorry, I was trying to respond to @"Feanor.2358" Ill try to edit my post to fix it

[Trinnitty.8256]

ya the agony resist by itself isn't hard but the combo of the +5 stat is the chore. Then factor in swapping them out can cost you gold unless wearing legendary armor. Then it just becomes easier to clutter inventory with multiple gear sets.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> >

> > Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

>

> The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

That's because there was only one dungeon done since launch, and even that one was a long ago. The main problem with dungeons for the players lies not with anything with the dungeons themselves, but with the fact that they got abandoned by devs long ago.

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > > @"Ryudnard.2587" said:

> > > > It doesn't require +9 Agony.

> > >

> > > Don't forget, its true for dungeons too. You use to be able to gear up a character for about 20 gold, and it would actually be efficient at running content.

> >

> > The problem with dungeons is their encounters are boring.

> That's because there was only one dungeon done since launch, and even that one was a long ago. The main problem with dungeons for the players lies not with anything with the dungeons themselves, but with the fact that they got abandoned by devs long ago.

>

 

Nah, it's not just the lack of development, although there is that for sure. The encounters themselves aren't interesting. Group of generic mobs after group of generic mobs, followed by a generic "boss" that's basically just a champ mob. No wonder most of the encounters get skipped. Their current work is leaps and bounds ahead of that.