MechVampyre.2903 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"mango of justice.8961" said: > Just got back from an extended brake and have been looking up some guides online to help me get caught up most of which have suggested that the Thief is a good class to start with however I'v read nothing but negativity surrounding this class on the form, low DPS/Survivability/Etc. Any thoughts on which one is right and if it is a poor choice for restarting what class should i consider instead? heya i always and almost only ever played thief (wvw) and also returned to gw2 after i left shortly after HoT release. back then i got really upset with the amount of passive defenses that were introduced into the game which made all my effort in fights less rewarding or even punishing me in some cases. i totally love how thief works though. its played actively and needs you to make permantly decisions on what to do next to achieve your goals. and thru the initiative system you get also some kind of freedom to put some creativity into your playstyle. on thief a single little mistake you make can be fatal. no passive will pop up to save you (except for the one in acro line which they could delete in my opinion). at least you will always know when you played bad and where you did something wrong. thanks to that you have the chance to improve much faster than on a more forgiving class. Since im back after my long absence from gw2 i learned to play thief a lot more defensive. jump on an enemy try to get some hits in and see if its worth the effort or if its better to just leave the situation. definitively not longer worth to try to climb a mountain and then getting upset because some build on steroids beats you up while at the same time some passives on it makes it untouchable for you. (since im sure those absurdly powerful passive things won't get out of the game again i wished thief could get at least some ability to get damage through invulns. no high damage of course. just enough to keep some pressure up.) anyway thief is still playable and for me the most satisfying class to win a fight with. and (i absolutely dont know why) thief is also the class you will get surely the most rage whispers on when defeating someone else. so there will always be that one domain where thief will stay forever the uncontested #1 at :) thief is mechanically really not a hard to learn/play the basics class. things get difficult only when you face an enemy and then it becomes a long long way of dying until you can handle all the situations you possibly will get into. i wouldnt say that thief is that great as a class for beginners but the lack of space for unpunished mistakes helps a lot to get better as player. if you want to choose thief then bring a lot of patience with you or otherwise you wont be happy with your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatvin.6510 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"babazhook.6805" said: > I solo roam rifle DE every night. My solo time is likely ~60 percentish with the rest spent mixed between small groups or in a zerg. DE Rifle does fine. Excellent escape, can flip camps quickly. I do not use Thieves guild or ambush to flip camps. I never have issues flipping them and tend to stick to rifle through the entirety. (I Have a bloodlust sigil in the alternate d/p set and will often use that in a camp just to get the stacks up. ) > I'll admit, I'm not the best thief, but I'm BAFFLED by the notion that rifle can flip camps quickly. This MIGHT mean I'm doing something really wrong with my build, but I'm running full zerk gear(Exotic), Deadly Arts, Shadow Arts, and DE as traitlines. Secondary weapon is Shortbow. DA = Mug, Panic Strike, Executioner SA = Shadow's Embrace, Hidden Thief, Rending Shade DE = Malicious Intent, Silent Scope, Fire For Effect Runes are superior "of the Thief" and I've maxed Guard Killer on WvW rank points. Skills are : Hide in the Shadows or Widthdraw, Roll for Initiative, Devourer Venom, Mercy, Shadow Meld When I take a camp, I need to kill one npc at a time, and its slow as molasses. The only way I've found to speed it up is to run thieves guild and ambush trap, which gives a nice damage boost, and frees up initiative to use on other stuff since I don't need spam smokescreen anymore, and even then I'll still occasionally fail when there's a merc squad at the camp or if the camp is t3. On basically every other class, I can engage the whole camp at once and kill the npcs in half the time. If its a t3 camp or if there's mercs it will take longer, but Its still certain that I'll get it. > @"MUDse.7623" said: > maybe you should try deadeye a little more in roaming, only because you run into bad deadeyes doesnt make the class weak. most deadeyes i see just try a deadeye build for a change, but really active deadeye players you wont encounter many of em. there were maybe 5-10 at most in EU WvW before the patch, the rest was just part time deadeyes. > I'm certainly not as good as you mr. "Camps the enemy in their own Garrison". :p To SOME extant, the fact that I regularly see and fight multiple builds of other classes that pose real threats DOES mean the spec is at least a little weak. The fact that so few players are dedicated deadeyes speaks to that. Teams need to run what will beat their opponent, and deadeye doesn't pull its weight. Roaming with the build I posted above, I kill some people, and I can certainly run away from anyone, but (and this might be because I'm bad at it) I feel like I need to run from MOST fights as deadeye. Its a far cry from condi-evade builds, which I find to be effective with few tweaks in engagements of all sizes. I'm not asking for deadeye to be as mindlessly good as Dragonhunter was back when it released, but it'd be nice if it at least hit Weaver or Holosmith levels of usefulness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"Gatvin.6510" said: > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > I solo roam rifle DE every night. My solo time is likely ~60 percentish with the rest spent mixed between small groups or in a zerg. DE Rifle does fine. Excellent escape, can flip camps quickly. I do not use Thieves guild or ambush to flip camps. I never have issues flipping them and tend to stick to rifle through the entirety. (I Have a bloodlust sigil in the alternate d/p set and will often use that in a camp just to get the stacks up. ) > > > I'll admit, I'm not the best thief, but I'm BAFFLED by the notion that rifle can flip camps quickly. This MIGHT mean I'm doing something really wrong with my build, but I'm running full zerk gear(Exotic), Deadly Arts, Shadow Arts, and DE as traitlines. Secondary weapon is Shortbow. > DA = Mug, Panic Strike, Executioner > SA = Shadow's Embrace, Hidden Thief, Rending Shade > DE = Malicious Intent, Silent Scope, Fire For Effect > Runes are superior "of the Thief" and I've maxed Guard Killer on WvW rank points. > Skills are : Hide in the Shadows or Widthdraw, Roll for Initiative, Devourer Venom, Mercy, Shadow Meld > When I take a camp, I need to kill one npc at a time, and its slow as molasses. The only way I've found to speed it up is to run thieves guild and ambush trap, which gives a nice damage boost, and frees up initiative to use on other stuff since I don't need spam smokescreen anymore, and even then I'll still occasionally fail when there's a merc squad at the camp or if the camp is t3. > On basically every other class, I can engage the whole camp at once and kill the npcs in half the time. If its a t3 camp or if there's mercs it will take longer, but Its still certain that I'll get it. > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > maybe you should try deadeye a little more in roaming, only because you run into bad deadeyes doesnt make the class weak. most deadeyes i see just try a deadeye build for a change, but really active deadeye players you wont encounter many of em. there were maybe 5-10 at most in EU WvW before the patch, the rest was just part time deadeyes. > > > I'm certainly not as good as you mr. "Camps the enemy in their own Garrison". :p > To SOME extant, the fact that I regularly see and fight multiple builds of other classes that pose real threats DOES mean the spec is at least a little weak. The fact that so few players are dedicated deadeyes speaks to that. Teams need to run what will beat their opponent, and deadeye doesn't pull its weight. Roaming with the build I posted above, I kill some people, and I can certainly run away from anyone, but (and this might be because I'm bad at it) I feel like I need to run from MOST fights as deadeye. Its a far cry from condi-evade builds, which I find to be effective with few tweaks in engagements of all sizes. I'm not asking for deadeye to be as mindlessly good as Dragonhunter was back when it released, but it'd be nice if it at least hit Weaver or Holosmith levels of usefulness. Perhaps it not so much the build as the tactics, it hard to say. I myself use CS/DE/SA (I used to use DA in place of CS and it worked as well). Mark target at range and use the tworound burst/skirmishers. Generally you can take down a guard even before it closes its range on you simply with TRB. If you pop in and out of stealth the guards rarely lock on you. In any case I use HIS , Assassins signet, Smeld , Shadowstep and Binding Shadows. I build up the VULN quickly ensuring I mix in some AA prior to a stealth usage of it to add on top of binding. They go down fast even without a DJ. (Base power is just a little over 2900 after stacks up) Traits are SA Shadows embrace , hidden thief , Rending shade. DE Malicious Intent , Silent Scope , Malificient 7 CS is Assassins Fury, Practiced tolerance and No Quarter. Using Assassins Fury along with TRB in either form (kneel or not) will build to 25 might quickly especially with No quarter kicking in. Generally you can get 25 might with 3 uses of TRB and th MALI 7 kicks in almost right away to refill INI. Binding shadow used with the aa and you easily got 20 vuln on which 20 percent more damage in a hurry. Guards rarely have boons and I use spellbreaker runes which afford a 7 percent damage bonus. I have two rifle sets one with force/accuracy one with force/sigil of night. The second used at night meaning +15 percent damage. Gear all marauders with a little bit of assassins mixed in so base Crit in the right set around 55 percent and in the day set 62 percent. Yes you can only kill one guard at a time but it NOT slow as molasses :) Against guards your double taps can easily pull off 10k hits. Alternate weapon is a d/p set as stated. If solo roaming I would not take FFE. You ramp up the might just as quickly with Mali 7 and get that nice fat INI refund of 7 along with the added boons. Your DJ then has two extra malice stacks when you do use it. Devourers is not helping you a lot. If you really need an IMMOB rilfe has it built in but generally it just not needed as stealth and hidden allows you to stay at range rather easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"Gatvin.6510" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > maybe you should try deadeye a little more in roaming, only because you run into bad deadeyes doesnt make the class weak. most deadeyes i see just try a deadeye build for a change, but really active deadeye players you wont encounter many of em. there were maybe 5-10 at most in EU WvW before the patch, the rest was just part time deadeyes. > > > I'm certainly not as good as you mr. "Camps the enemy in their own Garrison". :p > To SOME extant, the fact that I regularly see and fight multiple builds of other classes that pose real threats DOES mean the spec is at least a little weak. The fact that so few players are dedicated deadeyes speaks to that. Teams need to run what will beat their opponent, and deadeye doesn't pull its weight. Roaming with the build I posted above, I kill some people, and I can certainly run away from anyone, but (and this might be because I'm bad at it) I feel like I need to run from MOST fights as deadeye. Its a far cry from condi-evade builds, which I find to be effective with few tweaks in engagements of all sizes. I'm not asking for deadeye to be as mindlessly good as Dragonhunter was back when it released, but it'd be nice if it at least hit Weaver or Holosmith levels of usefulness. a deadeye the way i play it, is during the attack one of the most fragile builds running around there, the defense i have is purely in selecting the right moment to attack and outranging my opponent. this requires a certain level of skill and if not used right you will kiss the floor faster then you can leave the spawn, if i am in the wrong mood or let my self get provoced i aswell die more then i need to. but as long as i keep calm, there is very little chance for any build to kill a deadeye without envoiremental advantages like allies or limited terrain. if you dont kill a deadeye and dont run away, you will die. there is no build in this game that can outsustain DE damage, the build that is closest to it is trailblaizer mirage with alot of reflect uptime , i can under perfect circumstances onehit them with a backstab but it is hard to build up malice on em so they mostly run away, but they also deal pretty much no damage cause of SE. the amount of damage especially the one from MBackstab that is hard to avoid, coupled with the rifle range and the ability to pick every fight makes deadeye really strong in the right hands. if they give me now tools to apply my damage even easier or give me easy access to more good defense traits/skills on top so DE can be played with mindless spamming like any other class, then you do not want to run into a competent deadeye. as a deadeye you are too fragile to react to your opponent, you cannot just attack them as you see em. you have to know before the fight what the opponent will throw back at you and already be prepared to avoid it. for example you fight a power mesmer and expect a mantra of distraction so attack em on more then 1200 range, if you attack a warrior do not cc cause of last stand but keep enough distant so you can dodge into stealth when they bulls charge at you (remember you cant dodge into stealth the first 2.25 seconds of reveal) etc now for every class and build there is a way to engage them with little to no risk as a deadeye, when fighting groups you need to engage one opponent without risking the others to attack you so target choice is important here mostly range or mobile classes first. but if you engage the right opponent at the right time in the right way, then there is pretty much no risk and with the amount of damage we have almost every build has to fear us. the reason why there are not many deadeyes IMO is that deadeye is really easy and strong for an experienced thief, but for a new one it is alot less forgiving then lets say any acro build that runs Instant Reflexes. but most of the more experienced thieves i know do not like to play with SA, thats just a playstyle they dont want to do and you approach enemies different with it then with usual d/p or s/d builds, it feels more cheesy as your opponent cant do a thing if your setup is right, the personal reward is just higher if you think you have done something difficult, you wont feel that on DE in normal roaming. i this week am recording alot and at the moment cutting my recording from yesterday, tho this event somehow triggers me to play waaay to aggressive as i just have to down the opponent so i die alot XD. so if you have any specific builds that you have issues with just let me know then i could explain you how i approach these and maybe give you a video example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSlayer.1087 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 They pretty much nerfed this class into oblivion. It's fun to play in the open world where you can still pretend to be a ninja and kill mosquitoes. If you wanna play with daggers and have "mobility" and "survivability" play a Spell Breaker. If you wanna play as the REAL master of Stealth and Ambush play a Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > that conversation of which half got deleted, started with blood red arachnid claiming ' thief has to be one of the weakest classe' because of the way it is designed. and that is just stupid. because that would mean ideally a thief would lose any fight on same skill level wich is not really a desireable balance goal. > > > > That is the ideal. Welcome to the world of class balance in an environment where speed matters. If you give a class the triad of bursty, highly mobile, and completely invisible, then in order to make everything fair you're going to be hit with some pretty severe trades. Other classes have to be able to fight back and be capable of winning _when ambushed from stealth._ That's the thief's greatest asset: it controls when the fight starts, always lands the first blow, and can disengage to reset whenever it feels like it. If you want thieves to be better, you're going to have to sacrifice one of those, or else you'll destroy the game's balance. The thief, by default, has to be on the losing side of a straight up brawl, because _they're never in a straight up brawl._ > > i think you misunderstood tho. > in a straight up brawl weak is oke and understandable. but thief being one of weakest classes is a general statement wich also includes his ambush capabilities. > > just for a 1 vs 1 fight over nothing, a thief especially deadeye is atm at a really strong position. but you will only find that used efficiently in WvW (solo)roaming. and that is mostly because of his ambush and disengage tools. but that is just a really tiny fraction of the game. extended periods of stealth wich are needed for a good ambush are inefficient in any other part of the game. > i personally dont need the thief to be much stronger because i use mine mainly for solo roaming in WvW. but there are people who would like to use the thief in other parts of the game as well and the thief could use some improvements there. i just log onto my mesmer for fractals and raid, because i really dont care what i play, i mainly play thief tho because i mostly solo roam in WvW and thief was allways best for this, imo choosing the most efficient class for the task ahead is an important skill because it is required to achieve the best results. Thief is good for solo roaming now? :D it takes like 2 minutes to cap a camp, because you gonna get weakness which totally nullifies your damage and defense, you gonna get stunned blinded and all, it can sure kill zerker elementalists fast that play staff but common, anet made thief so weak i dont even know why i play it. The steath attack nerf, seriously who asked for it? The sword 2 nerf: none none ever complained about it yet fucked up a whole set The no valid path thingy that eats your ini but does nothing atleast dont let me use my ini pool if its a no valid path common, or the shadow trap fix which community is asking for like 2 years The continous damage nerfs, now backstab is not even a great damage dealer 2 long range shoot does the same damage as a backstab, every class now have a first hit buff shit, mesmer goes stealth or mirror stun, guard gets block, ranger gives weakness and stone signet, warrior endure pain, elementalist arcane block, that cantrip evade(elementalists before nerfs QQ thieves has so much evade lel look at you now), and engineer holly crap doing backstab to an engineer is not even needed it wont be more then 4k anyway no matter how glassy it is The reveals the amount of reveal in the game DH is the biggest thief counter ever existed yet it has a reveal, revenant is also 50 - 50% against a thief yet it has a reveal, holo eats thief yet it has a reveal, anet ruined thieves flawless and continous gameplay we had back then, if i would start the game now i would prolly drop thief cos how annoying it is to play with all the little "bugs"(fighting a scourge randomly reveals you sometimes etc.), also its base speed common, you need daredevil to catch up with enemies or need to slow them i love how every other melee class outruns you im like doing my AA but oh w8 he moved out of range, cos 75% of the melee classes has 25% movement boost. You know what would be cool if all the QQ-ers here who see theives as free kill, would just play it a little bit, cos all i see now in wvw is dead thieves everywhere, basically none sees them as threat now.All the people oh my full zerker raid wvw elementalist got ganked by a thief plíz nerf it, oh my hammer revenant got killed by a thief while trying to catch up with my zerg, plíz nerf backstab.... Oh and about roaming the last time when i could cap a tier 3 camp under 4 minutes was a year ago.While i do it under 30 seconds with a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > that conversation of which half got deleted, started with blood red arachnid claiming ' thief has to be one of the weakest classe' because of the way it is designed. and that is just stupid. because that would mean ideally a thief would lose any fight on same skill level wich is not really a desireable balance goal. > > > > > > That is the ideal. Welcome to the world of class balance in an environment where speed matters. If you give a class the triad of bursty, highly mobile, and completely invisible, then in order to make everything fair you're going to be hit with some pretty severe trades. Other classes have to be able to fight back and be capable of winning _when ambushed from stealth._ That's the thief's greatest asset: it controls when the fight starts, always lands the first blow, and can disengage to reset whenever it feels like it. If you want thieves to be better, you're going to have to sacrifice one of those, or else you'll destroy the game's balance. The thief, by default, has to be on the losing side of a straight up brawl, because _they're never in a straight up brawl._ > > > > i think you misunderstood tho. > > in a straight up brawl weak is oke and understandable. but thief being one of weakest classes is a general statement wich also includes his ambush capabilities. > > > > just for a 1 vs 1 fight over nothing, a thief especially deadeye is atm at a really strong position. but you will only find that used efficiently in WvW (solo)roaming. and that is mostly because of his ambush and disengage tools. but that is just a really tiny fraction of the game. extended periods of stealth wich are needed for a good ambush are inefficient in any other part of the game. > > i personally dont need the thief to be much stronger because i use mine mainly for solo roaming in WvW. but there are people who would like to use the thief in other parts of the game as well and the thief could use some improvements there. i just log onto my mesmer for fractals and raid, because i really dont care what i play, i mainly play thief tho because i mostly solo roam in WvW and thief was allways best for this, imo choosing the most efficient class for the task ahead is an important skill because it is required to achieve the best results. > > Thief is good for solo roaming now? :D it takes like 2 minutes to cap a camp, because you gonna get weakness which totally nullifies your damage and defense, you gonna get stunned blinded and all, it can sure kill zerker elementalists fast that play staff but common, anet made thief so weak i dont even know why i play it. > > The steath attack nerf, seriously who asked for it? > > The sword 2 nerf: none none ever complained about it yet kitten up a whole set > > The no valid path thingy that eats your ini but does nothing atleast dont let me use my ini pool if its a no valid path common, or the shadow trap fix which community is asking for like 2 years > > The continous damage nerfs, now backstab is not even a great damage dealer 2 long range shoot does the same damage as a backstab, every class now have a first hit buff kitten, mesmer goes stealth or mirror stun, guard gets block, ranger gives weakness and stone signet, warrior endure pain, elementalist arcane block, that cantrip evade(elementalists before nerfs QQ thieves has so much evade lel look at you now), and engineer holly crap doing backstab to an engineer is not even needed it wont be more then 4k anyway no matter how glassy it is > > The reveals the amount of reveal in the game DH is the biggest thief counter ever existed yet it has a reveal, revenant is also 50 - 50% against a thief yet it has a reveal, holo eats thief yet it has a reveal, anet ruined thieves flawless and continous gameplay we had back then, if i would start the game now i would prolly drop thief cos how annoying it is to play with all the little "bugs"(fighting a scourge randomly reveals you sometimes etc.), also its base speed common, you need daredevil to catch up with enemies or need to slow them i love how every other melee class outruns you im like doing my AA but oh w8 he moved out of range, cos 75% of the melee classes has 25% movement boost. > > You know what would be cool if all the QQ-ers here who see theives as free kill, would just play it a little bit, cos all i see now in wvw is dead thieves everywhere, basically none sees them as threat now.All the people oh my full zerker raid wvw elementalist got ganked by a thief plíz nerf it, oh my hammer revenant got killed by a thief while trying to catch up with my zerg, plíz nerf backstab.... > > Oh and about roaming the last time when i could cap a tier 3 camp under 4 minutes was a year ago.While i do it under 30 seconds with a war. soo i can flip aire/fire keep faster with my thief then you flip a t3 camp, cool. 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Menyus.4610 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > that conversation of which half got deleted, started with blood red arachnid claiming ' thief has to be one of the weakest classe' because of the way it is designed. and that is just stupid. because that would mean ideally a thief would lose any fight on same skill level wich is not really a desireable balance goal. > > > > > > > > That is the ideal. Welcome to the world of class balance in an environment where speed matters. If you give a class the triad of bursty, highly mobile, and completely invisible, then in order to make everything fair you're going to be hit with some pretty severe trades. Other classes have to be able to fight back and be capable of winning _when ambushed from stealth._ That's the thief's greatest asset: it controls when the fight starts, always lands the first blow, and can disengage to reset whenever it feels like it. If you want thieves to be better, you're going to have to sacrifice one of those, or else you'll destroy the game's balance. The thief, by default, has to be on the losing side of a straight up brawl, because _they're never in a straight up brawl._ > > > > > > i think you misunderstood tho. > > > in a straight up brawl weak is oke and understandable. but thief being one of weakest classes is a general statement wich also includes his ambush capabilities. > > > > > > just for a 1 vs 1 fight over nothing, a thief especially deadeye is atm at a really strong position. but you will only find that used efficiently in WvW (solo)roaming. and that is mostly because of his ambush and disengage tools. but that is just a really tiny fraction of the game. extended periods of stealth wich are needed for a good ambush are inefficient in any other part of the game. > > > i personally dont need the thief to be much stronger because i use mine mainly for solo roaming in WvW. but there are people who would like to use the thief in other parts of the game as well and the thief could use some improvements there. i just log onto my mesmer for fractals and raid, because i really dont care what i play, i mainly play thief tho because i mostly solo roam in WvW and thief was allways best for this, imo choosing the most efficient class for the task ahead is an important skill because it is required to achieve the best results. > > > > Thief is good for solo roaming now? :D it takes like 2 minutes to cap a camp, because you gonna get weakness which totally nullifies your damage and defense, you gonna get stunned blinded and all, it can sure kill zerker elementalists fast that play staff but common, anet made thief so weak i dont even know why i play it. > > > > The steath attack nerf, seriously who asked for it? > > > > The sword 2 nerf: none none ever complained about it yet kitten up a whole set > > > > The no valid path thingy that eats your ini but does nothing atleast dont let me use my ini pool if its a no valid path common, or the shadow trap fix which community is asking for like 2 years > > > > The continous damage nerfs, now backstab is not even a great damage dealer 2 long range shoot does the same damage as a backstab, every class now have a first hit buff kitten, mesmer goes stealth or mirror stun, guard gets block, ranger gives weakness and stone signet, warrior endure pain, elementalist arcane block, that cantrip evade(elementalists before nerfs QQ thieves has so much evade lel look at you now), and engineer holly crap doing backstab to an engineer is not even needed it wont be more then 4k anyway no matter how glassy it is > > > > The reveals the amount of reveal in the game DH is the biggest thief counter ever existed yet it has a reveal, revenant is also 50 - 50% against a thief yet it has a reveal, holo eats thief yet it has a reveal, anet ruined thieves flawless and continous gameplay we had back then, if i would start the game now i would prolly drop thief cos how annoying it is to play with all the little "bugs"(fighting a scourge randomly reveals you sometimes etc.), also its base speed common, you need daredevil to catch up with enemies or need to slow them i love how every other melee class outruns you im like doing my AA but oh w8 he moved out of range, cos 75% of the melee classes has 25% movement boost. > > > > You know what would be cool if all the QQ-ers here who see theives as free kill, would just play it a little bit, cos all i see now in wvw is dead thieves everywhere, basically none sees them as threat now.All the people oh my full zerker raid wvw elementalist got ganked by a thief plíz nerf it, oh my hammer revenant got killed by a thief while trying to catch up with my zerg, plíz nerf backstab.... > > > > Oh and about roaming the last time when i could cap a tier 3 camp under 4 minutes was a year ago.While i do it under 30 seconds with a war. > > soo i can flip aire/fire keep faster with my thief then you flip a t3 camp, cool. You must be good at manning a catapult damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > that conversation of which half got deleted, started with blood red arachnid claiming ' thief has to be one of the weakest classe' because of the way it is designed. and that is just stupid. because that would mean ideally a thief would lose any fight on same skill level wich is not really a desireable balance goal. > > > > > > > > > > That is the ideal. Welcome to the world of class balance in an environment where speed matters. If you give a class the triad of bursty, highly mobile, and completely invisible, then in order to make everything fair you're going to be hit with some pretty severe trades. Other classes have to be able to fight back and be capable of winning _when ambushed from stealth._ That's the thief's greatest asset: it controls when the fight starts, always lands the first blow, and can disengage to reset whenever it feels like it. If you want thieves to be better, you're going to have to sacrifice one of those, or else you'll destroy the game's balance. The thief, by default, has to be on the losing side of a straight up brawl, because _they're never in a straight up brawl._ > > > > > > > > i think you misunderstood tho. > > > > in a straight up brawl weak is oke and understandable. but thief being one of weakest classes is a general statement wich also includes his ambush capabilities. > > > > > > > > just for a 1 vs 1 fight over nothing, a thief especially deadeye is atm at a really strong position. but you will only find that used efficiently in WvW (solo)roaming. and that is mostly because of his ambush and disengage tools. but that is just a really tiny fraction of the game. extended periods of stealth wich are needed for a good ambush are inefficient in any other part of the game. > > > > i personally dont need the thief to be much stronger because i use mine mainly for solo roaming in WvW. but there are people who would like to use the thief in other parts of the game as well and the thief could use some improvements there. i just log onto my mesmer for fractals and raid, because i really dont care what i play, i mainly play thief tho because i mostly solo roam in WvW and thief was allways best for this, imo choosing the most efficient class for the task ahead is an important skill because it is required to achieve the best results. > > > > > > Thief is good for solo roaming now? :D it takes like 2 minutes to cap a camp, because you gonna get weakness which totally nullifies your damage and defense, you gonna get stunned blinded and all, it can sure kill zerker elementalists fast that play staff but common, anet made thief so weak i dont even know why i play it. > > > > > > The steath attack nerf, seriously who asked for it? > > > > > > The sword 2 nerf: none none ever complained about it yet kitten up a whole set > > > > > > The no valid path thingy that eats your ini but does nothing atleast dont let me use my ini pool if its a no valid path common, or the shadow trap fix which community is asking for like 2 years > > > > > > The continous damage nerfs, now backstab is not even a great damage dealer 2 long range shoot does the same damage as a backstab, every class now have a first hit buff kitten, mesmer goes stealth or mirror stun, guard gets block, ranger gives weakness and stone signet, warrior endure pain, elementalist arcane block, that cantrip evade(elementalists before nerfs QQ thieves has so much evade lel look at you now), and engineer holly crap doing backstab to an engineer is not even needed it wont be more then 4k anyway no matter how glassy it is > > > > > > The reveals the amount of reveal in the game DH is the biggest thief counter ever existed yet it has a reveal, revenant is also 50 - 50% against a thief yet it has a reveal, holo eats thief yet it has a reveal, anet ruined thieves flawless and continous gameplay we had back then, if i would start the game now i would prolly drop thief cos how annoying it is to play with all the little "bugs"(fighting a scourge randomly reveals you sometimes etc.), also its base speed common, you need daredevil to catch up with enemies or need to slow them i love how every other melee class outruns you im like doing my AA but oh w8 he moved out of range, cos 75% of the melee classes has 25% movement boost. > > > > > > You know what would be cool if all the QQ-ers here who see theives as free kill, would just play it a little bit, cos all i see now in wvw is dead thieves everywhere, basically none sees them as threat now.All the people oh my full zerker raid wvw elementalist got ganked by a thief plíz nerf it, oh my hammer revenant got killed by a thief while trying to catch up with my zerg, plíz nerf backstab.... > > > > > > Oh and about roaming the last time when i could cap a tier 3 camp under 4 minutes was a year ago.While i do it under 30 seconds with a war. > > > > soo i can flip aire/fire keep faster with my thief then you flip a t3 camp, cool. > > You must be good at manning a catapult kitten why would i need to open a wall or gate to capture a keep? 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Menyus.4610 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > that conversation of which half got deleted, started with blood red arachnid claiming ' thief has to be one of the weakest classe' because of the way it is designed. and that is just stupid. because that would mean ideally a thief would lose any fight on same skill level wich is not really a desireable balance goal. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the ideal. Welcome to the world of class balance in an environment where speed matters. If you give a class the triad of bursty, highly mobile, and completely invisible, then in order to make everything fair you're going to be hit with some pretty severe trades. Other classes have to be able to fight back and be capable of winning _when ambushed from stealth._ That's the thief's greatest asset: it controls when the fight starts, always lands the first blow, and can disengage to reset whenever it feels like it. If you want thieves to be better, you're going to have to sacrifice one of those, or else you'll destroy the game's balance. The thief, by default, has to be on the losing side of a straight up brawl, because _they're never in a straight up brawl._ > > > > > > > > > > i think you misunderstood tho. > > > > > in a straight up brawl weak is oke and understandable. but thief being one of weakest classes is a general statement wich also includes his ambush capabilities. > > > > > > > > > > just for a 1 vs 1 fight over nothing, a thief especially deadeye is atm at a really strong position. but you will only find that used efficiently in WvW (solo)roaming. and that is mostly because of his ambush and disengage tools. but that is just a really tiny fraction of the game. extended periods of stealth wich are needed for a good ambush are inefficient in any other part of the game. > > > > > i personally dont need the thief to be much stronger because i use mine mainly for solo roaming in WvW. but there are people who would like to use the thief in other parts of the game as well and the thief could use some improvements there. i just log onto my mesmer for fractals and raid, because i really dont care what i play, i mainly play thief tho because i mostly solo roam in WvW and thief was allways best for this, imo choosing the most efficient class for the task ahead is an important skill because it is required to achieve the best results. > > > > > > > > Thief is good for solo roaming now? :D it takes like 2 minutes to cap a camp, because you gonna get weakness which totally nullifies your damage and defense, you gonna get stunned blinded and all, it can sure kill zerker elementalists fast that play staff but common, anet made thief so weak i dont even know why i play it. > > > > > > > > The steath attack nerf, seriously who asked for it? > > > > > > > > The sword 2 nerf: none none ever complained about it yet kitten up a whole set > > > > > > > > The no valid path thingy that eats your ini but does nothing atleast dont let me use my ini pool if its a no valid path common, or the shadow trap fix which community is asking for like 2 years > > > > > > > > The continous damage nerfs, now backstab is not even a great damage dealer 2 long range shoot does the same damage as a backstab, every class now have a first hit buff kitten, mesmer goes stealth or mirror stun, guard gets block, ranger gives weakness and stone signet, warrior endure pain, elementalist arcane block, that cantrip evade(elementalists before nerfs QQ thieves has so much evade lel look at you now), and engineer holly crap doing backstab to an engineer is not even needed it wont be more then 4k anyway no matter how glassy it is > > > > > > > > The reveals the amount of reveal in the game DH is the biggest thief counter ever existed yet it has a reveal, revenant is also 50 - 50% against a thief yet it has a reveal, holo eats thief yet it has a reveal, anet ruined thieves flawless and continous gameplay we had back then, if i would start the game now i would prolly drop thief cos how annoying it is to play with all the little "bugs"(fighting a scourge randomly reveals you sometimes etc.), also its base speed common, you need daredevil to catch up with enemies or need to slow them i love how every other melee class outruns you im like doing my AA but oh w8 he moved out of range, cos 75% of the melee classes has 25% movement boost. > > > > > > > > You know what would be cool if all the QQ-ers here who see theives as free kill, would just play it a little bit, cos all i see now in wvw is dead thieves everywhere, basically none sees them as threat now.All the people oh my full zerker raid wvw elementalist got ganked by a thief plíz nerf it, oh my hammer revenant got killed by a thief while trying to catch up with my zerg, plíz nerf backstab.... > > > > > > > > Oh and about roaming the last time when i could cap a tier 3 camp under 4 minutes was a year ago.While i do it under 30 seconds with a war. > > > > > > soo i can flip aire/fire keep faster with my thief then you flip a t3 camp, cool. > > > > You must be good at manning a catapult kitten > > why would i need to open a wall or gate to capture a keep? Well if you are hiding inside the keep and dont even get revealed by the Marked debuff you are either playing at 4:00 AM or just in America and on the lowest tier servers i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > that conversation of which half got deleted, started with blood red arachnid claiming ' thief has to be one of the weakest classe' because of the way it is designed. and that is just stupid. because that would mean ideally a thief would lose any fight on same skill level wich is not really a desireable balance goal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the ideal. Welcome to the world of class balance in an environment where speed matters. If you give a class the triad of bursty, highly mobile, and completely invisible, then in order to make everything fair you're going to be hit with some pretty severe trades. Other classes have to be able to fight back and be capable of winning _when ambushed from stealth._ That's the thief's greatest asset: it controls when the fight starts, always lands the first blow, and can disengage to reset whenever it feels like it. If you want thieves to be better, you're going to have to sacrifice one of those, or else you'll destroy the game's balance. The thief, by default, has to be on the losing side of a straight up brawl, because _they're never in a straight up brawl._ > > > > > > > > > > > > i think you misunderstood tho. > > > > > > in a straight up brawl weak is oke and understandable. but thief being one of weakest classes is a general statement wich also includes his ambush capabilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > just for a 1 vs 1 fight over nothing, a thief especially deadeye is atm at a really strong position. but you will only find that used efficiently in WvW (solo)roaming. and that is mostly because of his ambush and disengage tools. but that is just a really tiny fraction of the game. extended periods of stealth wich are needed for a good ambush are inefficient in any other part of the game. > > > > > > i personally dont need the thief to be much stronger because i use mine mainly for solo roaming in WvW. but there are people who would like to use the thief in other parts of the game as well and the thief could use some improvements there. i just log onto my mesmer for fractals and raid, because i really dont care what i play, i mainly play thief tho because i mostly solo roam in WvW and thief was allways best for this, imo choosing the most efficient class for the task ahead is an important skill because it is required to achieve the best results. > > > > > > > > > > Thief is good for solo roaming now? :D it takes like 2 minutes to cap a camp, because you gonna get weakness which totally nullifies your damage and defense, you gonna get stunned blinded and all, it can sure kill zerker elementalists fast that play staff but common, anet made thief so weak i dont even know why i play it. > > > > > > > > > > The steath attack nerf, seriously who asked for it? > > > > > > > > > > The sword 2 nerf: none none ever complained about it yet kitten up a whole set > > > > > > > > > > The no valid path thingy that eats your ini but does nothing atleast dont let me use my ini pool if its a no valid path common, or the shadow trap fix which community is asking for like 2 years > > > > > > > > > > The continous damage nerfs, now backstab is not even a great damage dealer 2 long range shoot does the same damage as a backstab, every class now have a first hit buff kitten, mesmer goes stealth or mirror stun, guard gets block, ranger gives weakness and stone signet, warrior endure pain, elementalist arcane block, that cantrip evade(elementalists before nerfs QQ thieves has so much evade lel look at you now), and engineer holly crap doing backstab to an engineer is not even needed it wont be more then 4k anyway no matter how glassy it is > > > > > > > > > > The reveals the amount of reveal in the game DH is the biggest thief counter ever existed yet it has a reveal, revenant is also 50 - 50% against a thief yet it has a reveal, holo eats thief yet it has a reveal, anet ruined thieves flawless and continous gameplay we had back then, if i would start the game now i would prolly drop thief cos how annoying it is to play with all the little "bugs"(fighting a scourge randomly reveals you sometimes etc.), also its base speed common, you need daredevil to catch up with enemies or need to slow them i love how every other melee class outruns you im like doing my AA but oh w8 he moved out of range, cos 75% of the melee classes has 25% movement boost. > > > > > > > > > > You know what would be cool if all the QQ-ers here who see theives as free kill, would just play it a little bit, cos all i see now in wvw is dead thieves everywhere, basically none sees them as threat now.All the people oh my full zerker raid wvw elementalist got ganked by a thief plíz nerf it, oh my hammer revenant got killed by a thief while trying to catch up with my zerg, plíz nerf backstab.... > > > > > > > > > > Oh and about roaming the last time when i could cap a tier 3 camp under 4 minutes was a year ago.While i do it under 30 seconds with a war. > > > > > > > > soo i can flip aire/fire keep faster with my thief then you flip a t3 camp, cool. > > > > > > You must be good at manning a catapult kitten > > > > why would i need to open a wall or gate to capture a keep? > > Well if you are hiding inside the keep and dont even get revealed by the Marked debuff you are either playing at 4:00 AM or just in America and on the lowest tier servers i guess i play EU t1 atm. how exactly is the marked debuff revealing? i mean i do not get revealed by it.. 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DeceiverX.8361 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 When a keep flips, the Marked debuff effect applies persistently to enemies and continues to track them when they enter stealth. This was done to stop mesmer portal-re-flipping as soon as RI ends. At least, it's supposed to. It's weirdly inconsistent and seemingly just doesn't happen most of the time so who really knows lol. Camps should die quickly when playing a DE even without the AoE. TRB kills most of the guards instantly and with M7 it's super spammable. Right now the DE is only really bad in PvE due to lack of spammable DJ. In WvW it's kinda busted playing D/P + SA + Rifle if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > When a keep flips, the Marked debuff effect applies persistently to enemies and continues to track them when they enter stealth. This was done to stop mesmer portal-re-flipping as soon as RI ends. > > At least, it's supposed to. It's weirdly inconsistent and seemingly just doesn't happen most of the time so who really knows lol. i am not sure anet ever said it will track people in stealth persistently. and exactly that is what many people dont understand. when marked the dot on the map doesnt change position with you while in stealth, it jumps to you sometimes on long intervalls but it doesnt move with you. so if you keep moving with the mark and minimize your animations then they wont track you. as silent scope now has a little visual animation the best stealth stacking visually is a snipers cover in a wall, tho you will generate sound by kneeling and standing up, a rotation mainly based on silent scope while it has minimal visual animation, has no audio tells. depending on what your opponents pay attention to you may adapt. mostly its better to hide visualy while many are looking for you and hiding sound when its only few as you can hide visuals then with LoS. staying in a keep with mark is not hard, flipping them can be more difficult on alpine maps as they take way longer then desert keeps and scouts more likely will check the lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > Thief is good for solo roaming now? :D it takes like 2 minutes to cap a camp, because you gonna get weakness which totally nullifies your damage and defense, you gonna get stunned blinded and all, it can sure kill zerker elementalists fast that play staff but common, anet made thief so weak i dont even know why i play it. >[...] >Oh and about roaming the last time when i could cap a tier 3 camp under 4 minutes was a year ago.While i do it under 30 seconds with a war. This! I share the same experience. Flip a camp on power reaper and then do the same on power teef. You think you are playing a different game - even when you bring a PvE thief build to the table. I used my L80 boost for a holosmith yesterday and roamed on it for 3 hours. Jump Shot+Rocket Boots+Gadgeteer ... just LOL! The mobility is insane. No one can catch you. Even thieves have to burn all their initiative to follow. Don't care about SB5 anymore! It's ridiculous how gimmicky thief is these days. No fight presence at all. Destroy squishies and +1, but get laughed at by everyone else. I mean as a necro main I can state that teef is pretty balanced now, beacuse I can kill thieves at my skill level. But as a player that also plays teef and wants to enjoy it in a wide array of matchups, the class has too much redundancy in terms of mobility/evasion/stealth (which leads to becoming unkillable even when messing up hard) at the cost of sustained pressure. **TL;DR:** Thief: bad class design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > Thief is good for solo roaming now? :D it takes like 2 minutes to cap a camp, because you gonna get weakness which totally nullifies your damage and defense, you gonna get stunned blinded and all, it can sure kill zerker elementalists fast that play staff but common, anet made thief so weak i dont even know why i play it. > This! I share the same experience. Flip a camp on power reaper and then do the same on power teef. You think you are playing a different game - even when you bring a PvE thief build to the table. > > I used my L80 boost for a holosmith yesterday and roamed on it for 3 hours. Jump Shot+Rocket Boots+Gadgeteer ... just LOL! The mobility is insane. No one can catch you. Even thieves have to burn all their initiative to follow. Don't care about SB5 anymore! > > It's ridiculous how gimmicky thief is these days. No fight presence at all. Destroy squishies and +1, but get laughed at by everyone else. > > I mean as a necro main I can state that teef is pretty balanced now, beacuse I can kill thieves at my skill level. But as a player that also plays teef and wants to enjoy it in a wide array of matchups, the class has too much redundancy in terms of mobility/evasion/stealth (which leads to becoming unkillable even when messing up hard) at the cost of sustained pressure. > > **TL;DR:** > Thief: bad class design > > that really you ? or did you get hacked? you did complain about oneshot deadeye quite a bit before the rework, that got buffed and now thief is weak..ok but i wont say no to a damage buff for me :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > When a keep flips, the Marked debuff effect applies persistently to enemies and continues to track them when they enter stealth. This was done to stop mesmer portal-re-flipping as soon as RI ends. > > > > At least, it's supposed to. It's weirdly inconsistent and seemingly just doesn't happen most of the time so who really knows lol. > > i am not sure anet ever said it will track people in stealth persistently. and exactly that is what many people dont understand. when marked the dot on the map doesnt change position with you while in stealth, it jumps to you sometimes on long intervalls but it doesnt move with you. so if you keep moving with the mark and minimize your animations then they wont track you. as silent scope now has a little visual animation the best stealth stacking visually is a snipers cover in a wall, tho you will generate sound by kneeling and standing up, a rotation mainly based on silent scope while it has minimal visual animation, has no audio tells. depending on what your opponents pay attention to you may adapt. mostly its better to hide visualy while many are looking for you and hiding sound when its only few as you can hide visuals then with LoS. > staying in a keep with mark is not hard, flipping them can be more difficult on alpine maps as they take way longer then desert keeps and scouts more likely will check the lord. > For normal sentries and towers the dot changes locations whenever you leave stealth. I recall an announcement made a long time ago how they supposedly changed this to be persistent for keeps as towers being flipped by mesmers is much less a problem. Idk, I've personally hunted down stealthed dots in keeps a number of times and it feels like 50/50 the dots update and otherwise don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > When a keep flips, the Marked debuff effect applies persistently to enemies and continues to track them when they enter stealth. This was done to stop mesmer portal-re-flipping as soon as RI ends. > > > > > > At least, it's supposed to. It's weirdly inconsistent and seemingly just doesn't happen most of the time so who really knows lol. > > > > i am not sure anet ever said it will track people in stealth persistently. and exactly that is what many people dont understand. when marked the dot on the map doesnt change position with you while in stealth, it jumps to you sometimes on long intervalls but it doesnt move with you. so if you keep moving with the mark and minimize your animations then they wont track you. as silent scope now has a little visual animation the best stealth stacking visually is a snipers cover in a wall, tho you will generate sound by kneeling and standing up, a rotation mainly based on silent scope while it has minimal visual animation, has no audio tells. depending on what your opponents pay attention to you may adapt. mostly its better to hide visualy while many are looking for you and hiding sound when its only few as you can hide visuals then with LoS. > > staying in a keep with mark is not hard, flipping them can be more difficult on alpine maps as they take way longer then desert keeps and scouts more likely will check the lord. > > > > For normal sentries and towers the dot changes locations whenever you leave stealth. > > I recall an announcement made a long time ago how they supposedly changed this to be persistent for keeps as towers being flipped by mesmers is much less a problem. > > Idk, I've personally hunted down stealthed dots in keeps a number of times and it feels like 50/50 the dots update and otherwise don't. well i do hide alot in keeps on flip and without visual tells like a smokefield they are allways wrong about my position when i keep moving. the dot does update sometimes faster sometimes slower, i do have my suspicion what is causing it but unless i am visible it wont be constantly on my position. during this event i focus more on killing people then flipping stuff also keeps are mainly flipped during night this matchup so they are t3 all day, but i could try record a few times people trying to get me on reset when everything is paper ofc this depends on the opponent. we will have vabbi as opponent next they dont care unless i stand visibly in their way out they wont bother with me inside. so it depends on which other server we get if i can record some hide and seek on reset/during next matchup. will be super boring to watch but you will see people spamming skills all on the wrong place. if they would see my dot moving all the time they could easily kill me in stealth. edit: because of the karmatrain going on today i was able to already record a little hide and seek in bay, its over 1,5 hours long tho on first mark they didnt try to find me then i got interrupted at lord as he was at 31% (was on alt acc so exotics, no guard killer 20% and no infusions 18% , so a bit slower then usual) , i only ever try lords once seriously, so then i farmed guards and blue opponents till red took the bay, they did try to find me so you can see its not updating in stealth. shortly after flip i killed a deadeye on south inner wall so my dot was there and i moved stealth to lords room while my opponents remained at the dot. when i then let stealth run out in north part of inner you can see them all comming towards me in a hurry as the dot jumped. then i triggerd a trap etc did panic a little so i placed a smokefield badly but no one saw it. as soon as i stealthed tho i was safe again noone following me or throwing aoes at my correct position. as my main acc is on the server there looking for me i did chat afterwards with the deadeye i killed as i know him and he said as i left there from south wall they were certain i somehow bugged into the wall as they were not getting in combat hitting where my dot was same later on north wall were i got struck by that static. the only thing that i dont understand fully is that most people stack on my last visible position unless they see a smokefield, even if they didnt see me there. so i am certain my dot is there for them. but some players seem to have a later updated dot that is still stationary but not at a position i was visible like that nekro towards the end at north gate when everyone else did stack on the wall where i was visible he was looking for me with his marks in that corner i was for a moment. so here just the 2nd mark time, the full video 1,5 hours would take too long to upload and edit chatcover and nobody would watch all of it anyway : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUvKW_0rZfM this just an example, it is allways more or less like that so its not 'they just stupid' i never had one really following me while i was walking around marked in stealth in a keep. i aswell have hunted stealthed dots in keeps but most stack in a corner for a while, maybe change position once in a while but keep stacking, they are not constantly on the move and dont even move away if you clearly walk at them. little side note: if you ask yourselfves why i was remaining visible at the beginning till it was flipped.. if you are already in stealth on flip in a keep, tower or sm all the guards can see you in stealth apart from the ones in lordsroom and no thats not just one attack they can see you till you leave stealth and enter it again. so to avoid being shot from every side i stealth after the flip. 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DeceiverX.8361 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Ah. Probably just tracks pre-stealthed targets which would explain the phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > Ah. Probably just tracks pre-stealthed targets which would explain the phenomenon. this could be, but as the guards hurt me alot and give my position away with their shots it is unwise to prestealth anyway :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Deadeye doesn't have an issue capping T3 camps at all if you're smart about your positioning. Attack from max range on rifle, and the guards shouldn't be able to reach you before your target is dead and you restealth, and M7 keeps your ini topped up. If that's not working, go full trailblazer with draining and venom sigils (get max poison duration) on shortbow, torment on interrupt and trap on heal (DA trickery DE) and spam choking gas (stack on the scouts, everything else runs to you), easiest way to cap a camp on thief currently and not affected by weakness. Thief is in a alright spot in general tbh, the issue is that most of the other classes are overturned in some way and our role is covered by other classes due to this (same thing that happened with rev in PvP season 1). If we got PvE damage increased by 5k or other classes had damage reduced by a similar amount we'd be sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straegen.9534 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 For camps and towers, take Invigorating Precision. It absolutely wrecks camps and towers with little fear of death. It isn't a great skill in the open since about half of what a thief fights is bursty but for sustained fights it is amazing. Otherwise choking gas with Lotus Training and Acro for the win. As for the thief design, stealth really holds the class back from a design perspective. Because a thief can effectively start and stop a fight at will, ANet will always have to reconcile that ability with all the other skills/traits a thief has. Most games greatly limit when a player can stealth and the speed a player can go while in stealth which opens up counter play but because of the stealth design in GW2 the only counter balance to it is essentially nerfing everything around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud.5067 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Running with a small gang? It can bring enough options to the table to make the difference. Set up for Might generation, you and you compardres can enjoy max Might stacks more often then not. Even when solo, a few seconds for max Might really makes the difference, Bring your rifle. On a side note, as someone who has a fair few lvl 80 characters, I find my Deadeye is great at farming those essential materials which naturally contributes to my virtual wealth. A nice plus that often gets overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Redline.5379 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > The short version is, the nature of thief requires it to be one of the weakest classes. Since it is the most mobile class and can ambush from stealth, it has to be weak enough for every single other class to be capable of fighting back. Otherwise, the class that is slower and can't win will never be played, for it will always be just easy prey for the Thief. > > The Thief is not incapable in any sense. It just happens that a lot of the Thief's PVE utilities aren't that useful in raids, which is the microscope of a view that everyone uses to evaluate the class. Everywhere else, they're fine. In DPS, Survivability, etc. > > Personally, I wouldn't "restart" a class. Just make another character. I disagree. That is all you get from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Redline.5379 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @"Specialka.7290" said: > > > > > > Thief needs to be weaker because it can ambush from stealth and is mobile? So can we talk about Mesmer? > > > > > > You do know that in any other mmos or evem games, rogues are always the kings of 1v1? > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > Dumbest thing I have read in awhile. Mesmers can literally do all the things can do without punishment. Condi Mirage can literally apply conditions in between stealthing. While also being super mobile as well. > THANK YOU. > > I've been trying to get people to understand this for years. > > There should be a feeling of fairness any time you lose. It's why powercreep and instant-cast damage are killing this game. > > Rather than asking for less of it, people just want more of it, but specifically more of it for themselves and only themselves. Okay this is where i start talking. Lets have a small explanation here. A thief. It is a person who is STEALING, Bulglaring houses, Burning down farm, killing any witnesses, works at night, is sneaky, not very honest, with lack of good will, always wanting more for himself. WHY IN THE HELL are you complaining about the fact that such person would constantly hide (in stealth) and than rekt you with backstab from behind? IT IS A THIEF!!! It is supposed to be naughty it is supposed to be vile and evil and relentless. That is why they are mobile and should be able to stealth forever. Do you know how much life does thief have if playing propper build? 11k and less. We cant afford walking staright to a warior with 24k health and poke him in the eye! We need stealth we need poisons we need traps and if you dont like it then go cry to corner. Thief is supposed to be invisible slaughtering machine because it is in his nature. Other classes already have enough protections to survive such attack so please do not whine. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 My good man, I think you are confusing balancing with roleplaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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