Abelisk.4527 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > > That's nothing new. Anything with 1,200+ range is pro at fighting any and all necromancer build. This nerf to shades doesn't really change that. > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > Well... before, Scourge could deal with ranged by activating F2-F5 while casting F1. Now, the F1 is out of the question. Scourges are no longer able to do significant damage on larger points/roads. > > They really couldn't. Those shades are super easy to kite out, even before the nerf. Reapers posed more of a threat, and even then really only so much so. > I don't know why Anet wants necromancers to feel so sluggish compared to every single other profession. > > ~ Kovu Scourges could activate the F2-5 skills ***before*** placing the F1 (Manifest Sand Shade). With good timing you can instantly bomb an enemy from afar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. Opposed to always? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.4527 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > Opposed to always? They used to be soft-countered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > > That's nothing new. Anything with 1,200+ range is pro at fighting any and all necromancer build. This nerf to shades doesn't really change that. > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > Well... before, Scourge could deal with ranged by activating F2-F5 while casting F1. Now, the F1 is out of the question. Scourges are no longer able to do significant damage on larger points/roads. > > They really couldn't. Those shades are super easy to kite out, even before the nerf. Reapers posed more of a threat, and even then really only so much so. > I don't know why Anet wants necromancers to feel so sluggish compared to every single other profession. > > ~ Kovu Necro has Portal, Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm teleports.... "sluggish" lol Probs just different opinions but I think that award goes to Guardian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > > > That's nothing new. Anything with 1,200+ range is pro at fighting any and all necromancer build. This nerf to shades doesn't really change that. > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > Well... before, Scourge could deal with ranged by activating F2-F5 while casting F1. Now, the F1 is out of the question. Scourges are no longer able to do significant damage on larger points/roads. > > > > They really couldn't. Those shades are super easy to kite out, even before the nerf. Reapers posed more of a threat, and even then really only so much so. > > I don't know why Anet wants necromancers to feel so sluggish compared to every single other profession. > > > > ~ Kovu > > Necro has Portal, Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm teleports.... "sluggish" lol > Probs just different opinions but I think that award goes to Guardian Right. Fill your bar with those utilities, especially Flesh Wurm and let me know how that goes for you. I'll hop on my ranger. Or thief. ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > > > > That's nothing new. Anything with 1,200+ range is pro at fighting any and all necromancer build. This nerf to shades doesn't really change that. > > > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > > > Well... before, Scourge could deal with ranged by activating F2-F5 while casting F1. Now, the F1 is out of the question. Scourges are no longer able to do significant damage on larger points/roads. > > > > > > They really couldn't. Those shades are super easy to kite out, even before the nerf. Reapers posed more of a threat, and even then really only so much so. > > > I don't know why Anet wants necromancers to feel so sluggish compared to every single other profession. > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > Necro has Portal, Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm teleports.... "sluggish" lol > > Probs just different opinions but I think that award goes to Guardian > > Right. Fill your bar with those utilities, especially Flesh Wurm and let me know how that goes for you. > I'll hop on my ranger. Or thief. > > ~ Kovu To be fair, the option is there. It's up to the player wether to take it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > > > > That's nothing new. Anything with 1,200+ range is pro at fighting any and all necromancer build. This nerf to shades doesn't really change that. > > > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > > > Well... before, Scourge could deal with ranged by activating F2-F5 while casting F1. Now, the F1 is out of the question. Scourges are no longer able to do significant damage on larger points/roads. > > > > > > They really couldn't. Those shades are super easy to kite out, even before the nerf. Reapers posed more of a threat, and even then really only so much so. > > > I don't know why Anet wants necromancers to feel so sluggish compared to every single other profession. > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > Necro has Portal, Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm teleports.... "sluggish" lol > > Probs just different opinions but I think that award goes to Guardian > > Right. Fill your bar with those utilities, especially Flesh Wurm and let me know how that goes for you. > I'll hop on my ranger. Or thief. > > ~ Kovu Would it really matter what utilities I brought if you were just gunna play Thief or Ranger? As someone else pointed out, the options are there and personally I use all 3 on a variety of builds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > > > > > That's nothing new. Anything with 1,200+ range is pro at fighting any and all necromancer build. This nerf to shades doesn't really change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > > > > > Well... before, Scourge could deal with ranged by activating F2-F5 while casting F1. Now, the F1 is out of the question. Scourges are no longer able to do significant damage on larger points/roads. > > > > > > > > They really couldn't. Those shades are super easy to kite out, even before the nerf. Reapers posed more of a threat, and even then really only so much so. > > > > I don't know why Anet wants necromancers to feel so sluggish compared to every single other profession. > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > Necro has Portal, Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm teleports.... "sluggish" lol > > > Probs just different opinions but I think that award goes to Guardian > > > > Right. Fill your bar with those utilities, especially Flesh Wurm and let me know how that goes for you. > > I'll hop on my ranger. Or thief. > > > > ~ Kovu > > Would it really matter what utilities I brought if you were just gunna play Thief or Ranger? > > As someone else pointed out, the options are there and personally I use all 3 on a variety of builds... And I suppose the point I made earlier was that they're super easy to kite on many other professions with high range/mobility build options. The clunkiness of Spectral Walk and Sand Swell won't change that. If I can catch a necro in a 1v1 scenario I generally count my blessings. Its not technically a hard counter, but, well, its _basically_ a hard counter. ~ Kovu edit- Don't get me wrong, I'd still rather have a necro on my side during a team fight than a thief or ranger -- I do speak to the very specific scenario of a necro being kited at range with no allies around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > > > > > That's nothing new. Anything with 1,200+ range is pro at fighting any and all necromancer build. This nerf to shades doesn't really change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > > > > > Well... before, Scourge could deal with ranged by activating F2-F5 while casting F1. Now, the F1 is out of the question. Scourges are no longer able to do significant damage on larger points/roads. > > > > > > > > They really couldn't. Those shades are super easy to kite out, even before the nerf. Reapers posed more of a threat, and even then really only so much so. > > > > I don't know why Anet wants necromancers to feel so sluggish compared to every single other profession. > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > Necro has Portal, Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm teleports.... "sluggish" lol > > > Probs just different opinions but I think that award goes to Guardian > > > > Right. Fill your bar with those utilities, especially Flesh Wurm and let me know how that goes for you. > > I'll hop on my ranger. Or thief. > > > > ~ Kovu > > To be fair, the option is there. It's up to the player wether to take it or not. The option is also bad because taking those skills are ineffective because they are dramatically worse than the mobility skills that other classes use, which means they are of little value when it comes to trying to escape. The skills themselves also have stupidly long cooldowns with stupidly long cast times. There is a reason that not one of those mobility skills have ever been used on a meta build, and that's because the skills are all bad. I mean seriously, necro portal is a 900 range teleport that has a 1 second cast. You can literally walk 900 distance in the same amount of time if you have swiftness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthanLightheart.9168 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 > @"Rufo.3716" said: > For people who actually know how to play scourge properly, this nerf does absolutely nothing. Dito. It's very meaningless. Scourge is still way too op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said: > > > > > > > > This means scourges are hard-countered by anything ranged now. > > > > > > > That's nothing new. Anything with 1,200+ range is pro at fighting any and all necromancer build. This nerf to shades doesn't really change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > > > > > > > Well... before, Scourge could deal with ranged by activating F2-F5 while casting F1. Now, the F1 is out of the question. Scourges are no longer able to do significant damage on larger points/roads. > > > > > > > > > > They really couldn't. Those shades are super easy to kite out, even before the nerf. Reapers posed more of a threat, and even then really only so much so. > > > > > I don't know why Anet wants necromancers to feel so sluggish compared to every single other profession. > > > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > > > Necro has Portal, Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm teleports.... "sluggish" lol > > > > Probs just different opinions but I think that award goes to Guardian > > > > > > Right. Fill your bar with those utilities, especially Flesh Wurm and let me know how that goes for you. > > > I'll hop on my ranger. Or thief. > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > To be fair, the option is there. It's up to the player wether to take it or not. > > The option is also bad because taking those skills are ineffective because they are dramatically worse than the mobility skills that other classes use, which means they are of little value when it comes to trying to escape. The skills themselves also have stupidly long cooldowns with stupidly long cast times. There is a reason that not one of those mobility skills have ever been used on a meta build, and that's because the skills are all bad. > > I mean seriously, necro portal is a 900 range teleport that has a 1 second cast. You can literally walk 900 distance in the same amount of time if you have swiftness. well I just had a few Reaper games using flesh wurm and spectral walk and was able to out maneuver the enemy thieves and mesmers, was pretty much uncatchable and playing zerker ammy too... Even got matched against my "counter" being Longbow Ranger....  fun and effective options are there if you can play builds that aren't meta.... Now back to my OP: I still think the sluggish award goes to Guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Nothing? Probs need a few more nerfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > fun and effective options are there if you can play builds that aren't meta.... Now back to my OP: I still think the sluggish award goes to Guardian. The whole difference between a necromancer and a guardian, in regard of mobility, is that the necromancer is somehow liited to it's utility skills while the guardian have them both on weapon skills and utility skills. After all, with 2 _meditations_ skills being teleport and movement skills on weapon, nobody can say either that the option isn't there. Thus , like some necromancers may wonder why they would waste an utility skill with a movement skill, guardians also wonder if it's worth it wasting their own utility skill spot with a skill like _mercifull intervention_. Still the option is there. At the moment, at most, a necromancer (whatever it's build) will always have the option to run up to 3 movement skills max. On another hand, the guardian, which you feel sluggish, still have the option to run up to 5 movement skills max (_merciful intervention_, _Judge intervention_, GS2, Sw2 and _wing of resolve_ for DH.). Such waste of skill spot might not be realist but it's a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > fun and effective options are there if you can play builds that aren't meta.... Now back to my OP: I still think the sluggish award goes to Guardian. > > The whole difference between a necromancer and a guardian, in regard of mobility, is that the necromancer is somehow liited to it's utility skills while the guardian have them both on weapon skills and utility skills. After all, with 2 _meditations_ skills being teleport and movement skills on weapon, nobody can say either that the option isn't there. > > Thus , like some necromancers may wonder why they would waste an utility skill with a movement skill, guardians also wonder if it's worth it wasting their own utility skill spot with a skill like _mercifull intervention_. Still the option is there. > > At the moment, at most, a necromancer (whatever it's build) will always have the option to run up to 3 movement skills max. On another hand, the guardian, which you feel sluggish, still have the option to run up to 5 movement skills max (_merciful intervention_, _Judge intervention_, GS2, Sw2 and _wing of resolve_ for DH.). Such waste of skill spot might not be realist but it's a possibility. The difference is that (outside of gs3) they all require a target. This means you can't use them to disengage, unless you're willing to jump onto someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > fun and effective options are there if you can play builds that aren't meta.... Now back to my OP: I still think the sluggish award goes to Guardian. > > > > The whole difference between a necromancer and a guardian, in regard of mobility, is that the necromancer is somehow liited to it's utility skills while the guardian have them both on weapon skills and utility skills. After all, with 2 _meditations_ skills being teleport and movement skills on weapon, nobody can say either that the option isn't there. > > > > Thus , like some necromancers may wonder why they would waste an utility skill with a movement skill, guardians also wonder if it's worth it wasting their own utility skill spot with a skill like _mercifull intervention_. Still the option is there. > > > > At the moment, at most, a necromancer (whatever it's build) will always have the option to run up to 3 movement skills max. On another hand, the guardian, which you feel sluggish, still have the option to run up to 5 movement skills max (_merciful intervention_, _Judge intervention_, GS2, Sw2 and _wing of resolve_ for DH.). Such waste of skill spot might not be realist but it's a possibility. > > The difference is that (outside of gs3) they all require a target. This means you can't use them to disengage, unless you're willing to jump onto someone else. Well you got a point but, unlike the guardian, the necromancer don't have any way to **block** incoming attack, so maybe that make them even in this peculiar aspect that you point out. Edit: You can also consider _merciful intervention_ as a way to disengage. Yes, it need a target, but you also need to summon wurm, for example, if you want to use it to disengage. and summoning wurm have a relatively long cast time unlike _merficul intervention_ which is instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > fun and effective options are there if you can play builds that aren't meta.... Now back to my OP: I still think the sluggish award goes to Guardian. > > > > > > The whole difference between a necromancer and a guardian, in regard of mobility, is that the necromancer is somehow liited to it's utility skills while the guardian have them both on weapon skills and utility skills. After all, with 2 _meditations_ skills being teleport and movement skills on weapon, nobody can say either that the option isn't there. > > > > > > Thus , like some necromancers may wonder why they would waste an utility skill with a movement skill, guardians also wonder if it's worth it wasting their own utility skill spot with a skill like _mercifull intervention_. Still the option is there. > > > > > > At the moment, at most, a necromancer (whatever it's build) will always have the option to run up to 3 movement skills max. On another hand, the guardian, which you feel sluggish, still have the option to run up to 5 movement skills max (_merciful intervention_, _Judge intervention_, GS2, Sw2 and _wing of resolve_ for DH.). Such waste of skill spot might not be realist but it's a possibility. > > > > The difference is that (outside of gs3) they all require a target. This means you can't use them to disengage, unless you're willing to jump onto someone else. > > Well you got a point but, unlike the guardian, the necromancer don't have any way to **block** incoming attack, so maybe that make them even in this peculiar aspect that you point out. What does blocking have to do with anything? It's just a fun movement build and you play it similar to a thief role, also with 2 skills you can travel between 2 points instantly... (you don't have to use it for that though, I was more using it to port out with wurm and refresh then port back in on the spectral walk and to stomp guardians for the lolz) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > fun and effective options are there if you can play builds that aren't meta.... Now back to my OP: I still think the sluggish award goes to Guardian. > > > > > > > > The whole difference between a necromancer and a guardian, in regard of mobility, is that the necromancer is somehow liited to it's utility skills while the guardian have them both on weapon skills and utility skills. After all, with 2 _meditations_ skills being teleport and movement skills on weapon, nobody can say either that the option isn't there. > > > > > > > > Thus , like some necromancers may wonder why they would waste an utility skill with a movement skill, guardians also wonder if it's worth it wasting their own utility skill spot with a skill like _mercifull intervention_. Still the option is there. > > > > > > > > At the moment, at most, a necromancer (whatever it's build) will always have the option to run up to 3 movement skills max. On another hand, the guardian, which you feel sluggish, still have the option to run up to 5 movement skills max (_merciful intervention_, _Judge intervention_, GS2, Sw2 and _wing of resolve_ for DH.). Such waste of skill spot might not be realist but it's a possibility. > > > > > > The difference is that (outside of gs3) they all require a target. This means you can't use them to disengage, unless you're willing to jump onto someone else. > > > > Well you got a point but, unlike the guardian, the necromancer don't have any way to **block** incoming attack, so maybe that make them even in this peculiar aspect that you point out. > > What does blocking have to do with anything? > > It's just a fun movement build and you play it similar to a thief role, also with 2 skills you can travel between 2 points instantly... Blocking is like a free stability which allow you to move out of something nasty without taking damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > fun and effective options are there if you can play builds that aren't meta.... Now back to my OP: I still think the sluggish award goes to Guardian. > > > > > > > > > > The whole difference between a necromancer and a guardian, in regard of mobility, is that the necromancer is somehow liited to it's utility skills while the guardian have them both on weapon skills and utility skills. After all, with 2 _meditations_ skills being teleport and movement skills on weapon, nobody can say either that the option isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > Thus , like some necromancers may wonder why they would waste an utility skill with a movement skill, guardians also wonder if it's worth it wasting their own utility skill spot with a skill like _mercifull intervention_. Still the option is there. > > > > > > > > > > At the moment, at most, a necromancer (whatever it's build) will always have the option to run up to 3 movement skills max. On another hand, the guardian, which you feel sluggish, still have the option to run up to 5 movement skills max (_merciful intervention_, _Judge intervention_, GS2, Sw2 and _wing of resolve_ for DH.). Such waste of skill spot might not be realist but it's a possibility. > > > > > > > > The difference is that (outside of gs3) they all require a target. This means you can't use them to disengage, unless you're willing to jump onto someone else. > > > > > > Well you got a point but, unlike the guardian, the necromancer don't have any way to **block** incoming attack, so maybe that make them even in this peculiar aspect that you point out. > > > > What does blocking have to do with anything? > > > > It's just a fun movement build and you play it similar to a thief role, also with 2 skills you can travel between 2 points instantly... > > Blocking is like a free stability which allow you to move out of something nasty without taking damage. we're talking about movement though, sorry for my edit you gave a pretty quick response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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