Soulbeast Sucks

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Aomine.5012 said:

> Rifle of Deadeye need a buff though, especially for the AA and kneeling skills.

 

There is NO way thats going to happen, if anything they will be getting a nerf. The damage Rifle does is out of control, being able to deal 17k+ damage from stealth, in an instant with zero build up IS broken. The auto attack can hit for 5k+ as well. Deaths Judgement will be getting a nerf, it very much needs it in PvP/WvW settings.

 

[Aomine.5012]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Aomine.5012 said:

> > Rifle of Deadeye need a buff though, especially for the AA and kneeling skills.

>

> There is NO way thats going to happen, if anything they will be getting a nerf. The damage Rifle does is out of control, being able to deal 17k+ damage from stealth, in an instant with zero build up IS broken. The auto attack can hit for 5k+ as well. Deaths Judgement will be getting a nerf, it very much needs it in PvP/WvW settings.

>

 

If you ever tried a Rifle in PVE, you'd know how bad it is lolz..

 

Maybe they need a split version of PVE and PVP Rifle, but currently in PVE rifle is just bad, with one of the lowest damage among theif's weapons, and took too long for any meaningful stuffs to be done while glue yourself on spot.

[Cyno.4897]

Look Skuzz. Everyone here loves ranger for what it is. Soulbeast just happens to be the elite that has the most potential for tons of interesting options in terms of buildcraft and gameplay variety. I imagine the devs wanted the class to have cool skill animations for every skill and a unique feel for every pet. Why wouldn't they? It sounds awesome. If people are already having fun with the elite that's good! It is. No mmo will ever satisfy every player.

 

However, Anet obviously did not have the time to finish Soulbeast. The Animations were all in the game before and few even have a visible skill effect or distinctive sound. It shows on on so many skills, the most obvious one being feline [bite]. They ended up not even getting the numbers right, most of F1 and F2 skills are not even stronger than autoattacks atm. The 10 Sec window for petswap feels very restrictive, even if you love the mechanic. List could go on.

Everyone playing Soulbeast for more than 10 minutes can agree to this, which shows how little time the devs had to change things pre-release. I am sure the devs wanted it to be more.

 

And so do we. All we want is the elite to feel finished. All we want is to show Anet that we care.

So what benefit do you get by trying to prevent this from happening?

[Zaltys.7649]

I'm playing as condi soulbeast in WvW, with Fanged Iboga as the pet. Long-range confusion and torment with fast recharge when merged, long-range pull + immobilize when unmerged (perfect for chasing down fleeing enemies or pulling them off walls). I'm finding it pretty neat.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Zaltys.7649 said:

> I'm playing as condi soulbeast in WvW, with Fanged Iboga as the pet. Long-range confusion and torment with fast recharge when merged, long-range pull + immobilize when unmerged (perfect for chasing down fleeing enemies or pulling them off walls). I'm finding it pretty neat.

 

What weapons? I tried Dagger/Dagger and it just was pitiful. Swapped to Power build and havent looked back, 5k+ auto attack hits are very welcome and done 8k+ hits as well. Some great combos to be had with Power but not much with condi builds from what i played.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Aomine.5012 said:

> > Rifle of Deadeye need a buff though, especially for the AA and kneeling skills.

>

> There is NO way thats going to happen, if anything they will be getting a nerf. The damage Rifle does is out of control, being able to deal 17k+ damage from stealth, in an instant with zero build up IS broken. The auto attack can hit for 5k+ as well. Deaths Judgement will be getting a nerf, it very much needs it in PvP/WvW settings.

>

 

It does less damage than p/p, and you give up mobility for it, and it uses more initiative.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> It does less damage than p/p, and you give up mobility for it, and it uses more initiative.

 

Can P/P do 30k+ damage inside like a second. Deaths Judgement will be hit with nerfs, no doubt about it. They also have the bug that allows them to mark nearby NPCs and critters to get their stacks up and instantly hit people with Deaths Judgement for huge damage.

 

 

[Barret.4095]

it's not that soulbeast sucks, it's that most pets suck.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @Barret.4095 said:

> it's not that soulbeast sucks, it's that most pets suck.

 

Well this.

 

And remember how druid was on HoT launch?

In the beta it was meh, on the second meta it was kindo OP because regenaration gave you AF.

After that it needed 2-3 month to get really good.

I have my hipes up that they improve on soulbeast.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @Barret.4095 said:

> it's not that soulbeast sucks, it's that most pets suck.

 

I think this is a significant part of the issue. A lot of pet families, especially in the original release... their AI-activated skills were just not intended to be some flashy, impressive thing that has a big impact on its own, but just something that contributes to a high (for an animal companion) sustained rate of damage and maybe a bit of survivability. Which works fine as a pet loadout, but is a bit lacking when that then becomes your elite specialisation mechanic.

 

I recall a mention of some of the skills being toned down, since being able to activate them on demand made them stronger than being activated under AI control and thus often not being activated at the right time. There's probably a call for some to also be buffed, on the basis that at the very least using a soulbeast skill should be more interesting than autoattacking.

[Lazze.9870]

> @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > @Barret.4095 said:

> > it's not that soulbeast sucks, it's that most pets suck.

>

> I think this is a significant part of the issue. A lot of pet families, especially in the original release... their AI-activated skills were just not intended to be some flashy, impressive thing that has a big impact on its own, but just something that contributes to a high (for an animal companion) sustained rate of damage and maybe a bit of survivability. Which works fine as a pet loadout, but is a bit lacking when that then becomes your elite specialisation mechanic.

>

> I recall a mention of some of the skills being toned down, since being able to activate them on demand made them stronger than being activated under AI control and thus often not being activated at the right time. There's probably a call for some to also be buffed, on the basis that at the very least using a soulbeast skill should be more interesting than autoattacking.

 

Kind of. Not really. There are several pets you can make good use of, at least when they iron out their bugs. Having a dozen of pets with no use whatsoever has been the case since 2012.

 

_The_ significant part of the issue is the lack of petswap in beastmode, the effects from skills and traits that does nothing in beastmode (either because of the lack of pet swap, oversights, or some dumb bug that we currently have plenty of) alongside undertuned new skills/traits, the latter which I'm okay with when it comes to a new spec as they will buff or change those eventually (maybe..).

[draxynnic.3719]

> @Lazze.9870 said:

> > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > @Barret.4095 said:

> > > it's not that soulbeast sucks, it's that most pets suck.

> >

> > I think this is a significant part of the issue. A lot of pet families, especially in the original release... their AI-activated skills were just not intended to be some flashy, impressive thing that has a big impact on its own, but just something that contributes to a high (for an animal companion) sustained rate of damage and maybe a bit of survivability. Which works fine as a pet loadout, but is a bit lacking when that then becomes your elite specialisation mechanic.

> >

> > I recall a mention of some of the skills being toned down, since being able to activate them on demand made them stronger than being activated under AI control and thus often not being activated at the right time. There's probably a call for some to also be buffed, on the basis that at the very least using a soulbeast skill should be more interesting than autoattacking.

>

> Kind of. Not really. There are several pets you can make good use of, at least when they iron out their bugs. Having a dozen of pets with no use whatsoever has been the case since 2012.

 

Saying that there are several pets you can make good use of doesn't really contradict my statement that a lot of the 'family' skills weren't designed to be exciting for a player to use.

 

I can come up with quite a few pets that work with soulbeast (or at least have the potential to work when I haven't tested them yet). I can also see a few where there just doesn't seem to be much point.

 

Not being able to swap pets while in beastmode is certainly holding soulbeast back. That seems to be a deliberate limitation, though.

[Lazze.9870]

> @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > @Lazze.9870 said:

> > > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > > @Barret.4095 said:

> > > > it's not that soulbeast sucks, it's that most pets suck.

> > >

> > > I think this is a significant part of the issue. A lot of pet families, especially in the original release... their AI-activated skills were just not intended to be some flashy, impressive thing that has a big impact on its own, but just something that contributes to a high (for an animal companion) sustained rate of damage and maybe a bit of survivability. Which works fine as a pet loadout, but is a bit lacking when that then becomes your elite specialisation mechanic.

> > >

> > > I recall a mention of some of the skills being toned down, since being able to activate them on demand made them stronger than being activated under AI control and thus often not being activated at the right time. There's probably a call for some to also be buffed, on the basis that at the very least using a soulbeast skill should be more interesting than autoattacking.

> >

> > Kind of. Not really. There are several pets you can make good use of, at least when they iron out their bugs. Having a dozen of pets with no use whatsoever has been the case since 2012.

>

> Saying that there are several pets you can make good use of doesn't really contradict my statement that a lot of the 'family' skills weren't designed to be exciting for a player to use.

>

> I can come up with quite a few pets that work with soulbeast (or at least have the potential to work when I haven't tested them yet). I can also see a few where there just doesn't seem to be much point.

>

> Not being able to swap pets while in beastmode is certainly holding soulbeast back. That seems to be a deliberate limitation, though.

 

I wasn't trying to contradict your statement. I'm saying that it is a problem you can walk around, like rangers always have been doing. And what they are already doing with the soulbeast. No one is using a bad pet and complaining about soulbeast because of that pet (except when they are critizing that pet/pet family directly), they are using a perfectly fine pet like the smokescale, which even has great beastmode skills. And THEN they complain.

 

If anything is a significant part of the issue, it's the fact that they may have made the lack of pet swap in beast mode a deliberate limitation. It just really shows how out of touch they are with the ranger.

[Crapgame.6519]

Personal opinion is that Soulbeast is just going to make us all play better. Unless you are in the upper percentile of skilled players Soulbeast in the current state does not provide any room for error or comfort. Also while I tend to agree about not being able to swap pets while in Beastmode I can see why they did it. I don't think the intent was to camp Soulbeast but to use it much like the Druid would use Celestial Avatar. Which brings me back to my point about making us play better.

 

Most of my problems are not from the wonky class mechanics but rather finding a reasonable trait, armor, and weapon set to compliment my playstyle. I'm so used to Druid and the safety net it brings that I'm starting to see it was a crutch. Don't get me wrong, pets need some attention, but for me I'm starting to realize that playing Druid for so long, with LB and Staff, really hurt me in the bigger picture.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @Lazze.9870 said:

> > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > @Lazze.9870 said:

> > > > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > > > @Barret.4095 said:

> > > > > it's not that soulbeast sucks, it's that most pets suck.

> > > >

> > > > I think this is a significant part of the issue. A lot of pet families, especially in the original release... their AI-activated skills were just not intended to be some flashy, impressive thing that has a big impact on its own, but just something that contributes to a high (for an animal companion) sustained rate of damage and maybe a bit of survivability. Which works fine as a pet loadout, but is a bit lacking when that then becomes your elite specialisation mechanic.

> > > >

> > > > I recall a mention of some of the skills being toned down, since being able to activate them on demand made them stronger than being activated under AI control and thus often not being activated at the right time. There's probably a call for some to also be buffed, on the basis that at the very least using a soulbeast skill should be more interesting than autoattacking.

> > >

> > > Kind of. Not really. There are several pets you can make good use of, at least when they iron out their bugs. Having a dozen of pets with no use whatsoever has been the case since 2012.

> >

> > Saying that there are several pets you can make good use of doesn't really contradict my statement that a lot of the 'family' skills weren't designed to be exciting for a player to use.

> >

> > I can come up with quite a few pets that work with soulbeast (or at least have the potential to work when I haven't tested them yet). I can also see a few where there just doesn't seem to be much point.

> >

> > Not being able to swap pets while in beastmode is certainly holding soulbeast back. That seems to be a deliberate limitation, though.

>

> I wasn't trying to contradict your statement. I'm saying that it is a problem you can walk around, like rangers always have been doing. And what they are already doing with the soulbeast. No one is using a bad pet and complaining about soulbeast because of that pet (except when they are critizing that pet/pet family directly), they are using a perfectly fine pet like the smokescale, which even has great beastmode skills. And THEN they complain.

>

> If anything is a significant part of the issue, it's the fact that they may have made the lack of pet swap in beast mode a deliberate limitation. It just really shows how out of touch they are with the ranger.

 

Sure, you can work around it. That said, when you've ruled out the pets that have bad beastmode skills, the pets whose archetype doesn't fit your build, and the pets that don't have useful F2 skills, you do end up with a pretty short list, which probably doesn't help the profession's image.

 

> @Crapgame.6519 said:

> Personal opinion is that Soulbeast is just going to make us all play better. Unless you are in the upper percentile of skilled players Soulbeast in the current state does not provide any room for error or comfort. Also while I tend to agree about not being able to swap pets while in Beastmode I can see why they did it. I don't think the intent was to camp Soulbeast but to use it much like the Druid would use Celestial Avatar. Which brings me back to my point about making us play better.

>

> Most of my problems are not from the wonky class mechanics but rather finding a reasonable trait, armor, and weapon set to compliment my playstyle. I'm so used to Druid and the safety net it brings that I'm starting to see it was a crutch. Don't get me wrong, pets need some attention, but for me I'm starting to realize that playing Druid for so long, with LB and Staff, really hurt me in the bigger picture.

 

To be honest, depending on your pet choices, soulbeast can have more room for error than base ranger has. Taking a Jacaranda as a pet is practically a second self-heal through the beastmode skills, for instance.

[Lazze.9870]

> @Crapgame.6519 said:

> Personal opinion is that Soulbeast is just going to make us all play better. Unless you are in the upper percentile of skilled players Soulbeast in the current state does not provide any room for error or comfort. Also while I tend to agree about not being able to swap pets while in Beastmode I can see why they did it. I don't think the intent was to camp Soulbeast but to use it much like the Druid would use Celestial Avatar. Which brings me back to my point about making us play better.

 

Except a good player would switch out of beastmode anyway. The camping argument is a non-argument. It already happens in pve (and we all knew it would), it wouldn't happen anyway in pvp. In wvw trains you probably want it camped, for roaming you wanna go in and out.

[Lazze.9870]

> @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > @Lazze.9870 said:

> > > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > > @Lazze.9870 said:

> > > > > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > > > > @Barret.4095 said:

> > > > > > it's not that soulbeast sucks, it's that most pets suck.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think this is a significant part of the issue. A lot of pet families, especially in the original release... their AI-activated skills were just not intended to be some flashy, impressive thing that has a big impact on its own, but just something that contributes to a high (for an animal companion) sustained rate of damage and maybe a bit of survivability. Which works fine as a pet loadout, but is a bit lacking when that then becomes your elite specialisation mechanic.

> > > > >

> > > > > I recall a mention of some of the skills being toned down, since being able to activate them on demand made them stronger than being activated under AI control and thus often not being activated at the right time. There's probably a call for some to also be buffed, on the basis that at the very least using a soulbeast skill should be more interesting than autoattacking.

> > > >

> > > > Kind of. Not really. There are several pets you can make good use of, at least when they iron out their bugs. Having a dozen of pets with no use whatsoever has been the case since 2012.

> > >

> > > Saying that there are several pets you can make good use of doesn't really contradict my statement that a lot of the 'family' skills weren't designed to be exciting for a player to use.

> > >

> > > I can come up with quite a few pets that work with soulbeast (or at least have the potential to work when I haven't tested them yet). I can also see a few where there just doesn't seem to be much point.

> > >

> > > Not being able to swap pets while in beastmode is certainly holding soulbeast back. That seems to be a deliberate limitation, though.

> >

> > I wasn't trying to contradict your statement. I'm saying that it is a problem you can walk around, like rangers always have been doing. And what they are already doing with the soulbeast. No one is using a bad pet and complaining about soulbeast because of that pet (except when they are critizing that pet/pet family directly), they are using a perfectly fine pet like the smokescale, which even has great beastmode skills. And THEN they complain.

> >

> > If anything is a significant part of the issue, it's the fact that they may have made the lack of pet swap in beast mode a deliberate limitation. It just really shows how out of touch they are with the ranger.

>

> Sure, you can work around it. That said, when you've ruled out the pets that have bad beastmode skills, the pets whose archetype doesn't fit your build, and the pets that don't have useful F2 skills, you do end up with a pretty short list, which probably doesn't help the profession's image.

 

Perfectly aware of that. But the list was always short. You saw little else than canines, spiders and maybe the occasional drake, bird or feline prior to HoT in pvp. Pets with "weaker" beastmode skills still become much more useable if you can swap between them in beastmode. Snow owl as an example, which have a decent F2 and would give you an immediate heal+resistance and a leap for a proper disengagement if you're already merged with your other pet. I would rather have that than a buff to snow owl beastmode skills. Same with devourers - a knockback and a disengage skill with an evade. Those are skills I wanna have to my disposal as a way to react in a fight, I don't want supercharged versions of them.

 

Weak pet skills is a core profession problem, and yes, the soulbeast suffers from it. But the soulbeast itself suffers more from a clunky mechanic that should have given us a lot more utilities, but instead removes a core mechanic unless you unmerge. You end up predicting fights instead of reacting to them.

[kiwituatara.6053]

The dagger, traits and utility skills are pretty awful :(

 

The only thing thats got soulbeast working is the pet merge mechanic.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

Soulbeast with Suv/Nature/Soulbeast , Longbow+S/W and Marauder is very powerful. I roaming with this build in group of 3-7 players and I can say I die last and also I do main damage and I give last shots for kills. Even when you are targeted by enemies , you can escape. Soulbeast doesn't sucks if you play with old utilities. I know is not what suppose to play, and all utilities and elite from Soulbeast are bad, but this doesn't mean the class is bad.

[Zenith.7301]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > It does less damage than p/p, and you give up mobility for it, and it uses more initiative.

>

> Can P/P do 30k+ damage inside like a second. Deaths Judgement will be hit with nerfs, no doubt about it. They also have the bug that allows them to mark nearby NPCs and critters to get their stacks up and instantly hit people with Deaths Judgement for huge damage.

>

>

 

It's not instant when it has a 3/4 sec cast time and an obvious laser tether animation to the target...

 

I'd rather fight a deadeye since they actually have cast times unlike daredevil with the stupid instant cast, no tell steal.

[Prophet.1584]

The point bonus in beastmode should be doubled at least AND the additional bonus based on pet type should be increased slightly as well.

 

The stances need tweaking badly, most of them seem useful but quickly get replaced by old utilities. The lack of a major cleanse ties you to survival skills or shouts in pvp or wvw still. The only stance i've found useful is bear stance, the rest can either be easily replaced or passed over for other options.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @Prophet.1584 said:

> The point bonus in beastmode should be doubled at least AND the additional bonus based on pet type should be increased slightly as well.

 

I am not agree with you, if bonus in beastmode will be doubled then Soulbeast will be OP. Atm we have a good dps. We lack in survability things ...

 

> The only stance i've found useful is bear stance, the rest can either be easily replaced or passed over for other options.

 

Here I am agree with you, Bear Stance is the only one useful and depends of concentration.

 

Even there are a lot of bugs and lacks of synergy between traits and new utilities, Soulbeast is a strong class.

One stupid bug is that if one of your pet died and you instead going in Beastmode (this make your pet to be alive after you take out Beastmode, this mean in 10 sec he will be with full life ... a bug also :) ) you change to the other pet, then first pet will have 1 min cd till you can swap to him again. So everytime a pet died (don't swap to the other pet) you just go into Beastmode and when you go out from Beastmode your pet will be alive. I know sometimes exactly when your pet died you need to go in beastmode with the other pet , for healing or cleansing for example ... and in that moment you can't afford to lose another 10+10 sec ...

 

 

[ugrakarma.9416]

Soulbeast have good numbers, but design not attractive. i run a full sinister its a overkill! but the daggers u feel slow.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @ugrakarma.9416 said:

> Soulbeast have good numbers, but design not attractive. i run a full sinister its a overkill! but the daggers u feel slow.

 

You play in W3 with full sinister? If yes, you don't die in a second ? :) .

[thefantasticg.3984]

Yeah, I PVE only. Been playing lots of Soulbeast. I had to completely, 100%, commit to poison and condi. Moved my zerker gear to my Holosmith and my condi gear from my Engie to my Soulbeast. Once I did that, it has been barely bareable on how slow it kills things.

 

My main complaint is just that the dagger is too slow. Especially that last hit. For the weak output, it's just too damn slow. For reference, I do miss the original sword. It felt fast. I was really really hoping the dagger would be like that, but I was sorely disappointed. Secondary complaints are that the power just isn't there, (Honestly, power ranger hasn't been decent since sword animation nerf.) , I can't swap pets while in Beastmode, and the F1-F3 aren't strong enough.