NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > The wiki sort of answers the question: > > Notes > The chests from raid bosses can only be looted once a week, therefore an account can currently get at most 17 Legendary Insights per week. > > ANET obviously wants to time gate the acquisition of LIs, so making them tradeable would circumvent that. The thread isn't about what Anet intended to do with LIs. It's about how people would feel if they were made tradeable and what kind of impact it'd have for the game. The threads tend to derail quite a bit on these forums so I'm not blaming you for the misunderstanding though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. You would personally feel your armor would be less valuable if LIs could be traded? My opinion is that raids being sellable devalues to the same point as I argued above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > You would personally feel your armor would be less valuable if LIs could be traded? My opinion is that raids being sellable devalues to the same point as I argued above. The effort, not the armor. Imagine if you put in the effort to earn everything in the game but then next week all players could purchase it all for a single copper. How would you feel? I don’t see raids being sellable and buying LI’s as the same thing. It won’t devalue the same as LI’s would ultimately be cheaper. If them being cheaper also caused raid selling prices to drop, the lower LI’s would still be the cause of devaluing the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > The wiki sort of answers the question: > > Notes > The chests from raid bosses can only be looted once a week, therefore an account can currently get at most 17 Legendary Insights per week. > > ANET obviously wants to time gate the acquisition of LIs, so making them tradeable would circumvent that. Initial intention was working when raids were initially implemented. Currently, people are sitting on multiple stacks of useless LIs. If you give them the option to sell them, they gonna profit on their weekly adventures and maybe play more because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > Can any type of content survive without gated rewards? Would anyone play in Draconis Mons (the least popular according to polls) LS3 episode map if they could get the rewards of the episode by farming Winterberries? > > I'm really happy you bring up this example because map currencies can be easily gained by WvW and PvP tracks. Both these modes are basically afk fiestas so no gameplay is involved either way. > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > Can any type of content survive without gated rewards? Would anyone play in Draconis Mons (the least popular according to polls) LS3 episode map if they could get the rewards of the episode by farming Winterberries? > > > > I'm really happy you bring up this example because map currencies can be easily gained by WvW and PvP tracks. Both these modes are basically afk fiestas so no gameplay is involved either way. > > > > I wonder which one is more efficient, afk in WVW/PVP or roaming around the episode maps gathering resources on multiple characters. Haven't tried it, so I don't know. > > You are saying that the player versus player content (WVW/PVP) in this game has no gameplay involved, which is interesting because some claim that when other players are involved it's more challenging content, and requires better rewards than easy, predictable, scripted PVE encounters. I will keep this in mind for future threads. Well, if you afk consistently in PvP, you could end up getting banned by Anet, so you are more then welcome to try that approach. As for WvW, in order to get the tickets you have to at the very least hit the 3rd tier participation, so you will have to do something and eventually the participation will lapse so you will have to do more again. You could enter WvW and go afk and get no rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > Imagine if you put in the effort to earn everything in the game but then next week all players could purchase it all for a single copper. How would you feel? Are LI going to cost 1c on TP? How did you count that? > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > I don’t see raids being sellable and buying LI’s as the same thing. It won’t devalue the same as LI’s would ultimately be cheaper. If them being cheaper also caused raid selling prices to drop, the lower LI’s would still be the cause of devaluing the effort. With every new raid the effort is devalued because it increases weekly LI cap. Legendary wasn't prestigous even on release and it will never be. It's a time gate, not the effort. It's very common in this game that you can skip time gates with gold / money so there's nothing wrong with giving an option to transfer wealth from rich players, to those interested in raiding. The only thing I'm wondering about is if it would cripple or boost anet profit, considering people who now buy gold with gems to pay raid sellers to skip the "effort". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > Can any type of content survive without gated rewards? Would anyone play in Draconis Mons (the least popular according to polls) LS3 episode map if they could get the rewards of the episode by farming Winterberries? > > > > I'm really happy you bring up this example because map currencies can be easily gained by WvW and PvP tracks. Both these modes are basically afk fiestas so no gameplay is involved either way. > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > Can any type of content survive without gated rewards? Would anyone play in Draconis Mons (the least popular according to polls) LS3 episode map if they could get the rewards of the episode by farming Winterberries? > > > > > > I'm really happy you bring up this example because map currencies can be easily gained by WvW and PvP tracks. Both these modes are basically afk fiestas so no gameplay is involved either way. > > > > > > > I wonder which one is more efficient, afk in WVW/PVP or roaming around the episode maps gathering resources on multiple characters. Haven't tried it, so I don't know. > > > > You are saying that the player versus player content (WVW/PVP) in this game has no gameplay involved, which is interesting because some claim that when other players are involved it's more challenging content, and requires better rewards than easy, predictable, scripted PVE encounters. I will keep this in mind for future threads. > > Well, if you afk consistently in PvP, you could end up getting banned by Anet, so you are more then welcome to try that approach. As for WvW, in order to get the tickets you have to at the very least hit the 3rd tier participation, so you will have to do something and eventually the participation will lapse so you will have to do more again. You could enter WvW and go afk and get no rewards. Clearly you didn't read my other post about WvW afk farming in this thread so there's no reason to reply to this part. About PvP, yes, afk is not allowed but you don't really need to do anything substantial. Just watch the movie and move between points and it's all done. It's obviously not literally afk gameplay, but the result is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. - how many players raid every week? - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 I would hate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > Can any type of content survive without gated rewards? Would anyone play in Draconis Mons (the least popular according to polls) LS3 episode map if they could get the rewards of the episode by farming Winterberries? > > > > > > I'm really happy you bring up this example because map currencies can be easily gained by WvW and PvP tracks. Both these modes are basically afk fiestas so no gameplay is involved either way. > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > Can any type of content survive without gated rewards? Would anyone play in Draconis Mons (the least popular according to polls) LS3 episode map if they could get the rewards of the episode by farming Winterberries? > > > > > > > > I'm really happy you bring up this example because map currencies can be easily gained by WvW and PvP tracks. Both these modes are basically afk fiestas so no gameplay is involved either way. > > > > > > > > > > I wonder which one is more efficient, afk in WVW/PVP or roaming around the episode maps gathering resources on multiple characters. Haven't tried it, so I don't know. > > > > > > You are saying that the player versus player content (WVW/PVP) in this game has no gameplay involved, which is interesting because some claim that when other players are involved it's more challenging content, and requires better rewards than easy, predictable, scripted PVE encounters. I will keep this in mind for future threads. > > > > Well, if you afk consistently in PvP, you could end up getting banned by Anet, so you are more then welcome to try that approach. As for WvW, in order to get the tickets you have to at the very least hit the 3rd tier participation, so you will have to do something and eventually the participation will lapse so you will have to do more again. You could enter WvW and go afk and get no rewards. > > Clearly you didn't read my other post about WvW afk farming in this thread so there's no reason to reply to this part. > > About PvP, yes, afk is not allowed but you don't really need to do anything substantial. Just watch the movie and move between points and it's all done. It's obviously not literally afk gameplay, but the result is the same. Just like farming currencies in LS and farm metas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > You would personally feel your armor would be less valuable if LIs could be traded? My opinion is that raids being sellable devalues to the same point as I argued above. > > The effort, not the armor. > > Imagine if you put in the effort to earn everything in the game but then next week all players could purchase it all for a single copper. How would you feel? > > I don’t see raids being sellable and buying LI’s as the same thing. It won’t devalue the same as LI’s would ultimately be cheaper. If them being cheaper also caused raid selling prices to drop, the lower LI’s would still be the cause of devaluing the effort. I hate the effort called time-gating and wouldn’t mind if other didn’t have to go through that. Also my effort of doing the other parts of legendary collection is still there. You know, the fun part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > You would personally feel your armor would be less valuable if LIs could be traded? My opinion is that raids being sellable devalues to the same point as I argued above. > > > > The effort, not the armor. > > > > Imagine if you put in the effort to earn everything in the game but then next week all players could purchase it all for a single copper. How would you feel? > > > > I don’t see raids being sellable and buying LI’s as the same thing. It won’t devalue the same as LI’s would ultimately be cheaper. If them being cheaper also caused raid selling prices to drop, the lower LI’s would still be the cause of devaluing the effort. > > I hate the effort called time-gating and wouldn’t mind if other didn’t have to go through that. Also my effort of doing the other parts of legendary collection is still there. You know, the fun part. > > The effort of doing the raids yourself with a team. Time gates are not effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > - how many players raid every week? > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. I can't consider your argument then, because you asked me to, quote: "consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them". You, yourself, just said your argument is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. Why do you use word "effort" when all it is is "timegate"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. > > I can't consider your argument then, because you asked me to, quote: "consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them". You, yourself, just said your argument is irrelevant. I never said it was irrelevant. Knowing the exact numbers was not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. > > Why do you use word "effort" when all it is is "timegate"? I was not talking about timegates when bringing up effort. This is something that someone else injected into the discussion. When I talk about effort, I’m referring to what it takes to do the raid yourself in a group. It takes effort to learn a raid and to actually do it every week. You’d be putting in the same effort whether or not there was a timegate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > > > > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > > > > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. > > > > I can't consider your argument then, because you asked me to, quote: "consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them". You, yourself, just said your argument is irrelevant. > > I never said it was irrelevant. Knowing the exact numbers was not necessary. Then it's impossible to consider what you want me to consider, making your argument non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > > > > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > > > > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. > > > > Why do you use word "effort" when all it is is "timegate"? > > I was not talking about timegates when bringing up effort. This is something that someone else injected into the discussion. When I talk about effort, I’m referring to what it takes to do the raid yourself in a group. > > It takes effort to learn a raid and to actually do it every week. You’d be putting in the same effort whether or not there was a timegate. It's irrelevant because Anet allows for raid selling. Almost everything can be bought in this game with gold or money, there's no reason to keep niche examples as special snowflakes. Raids are already unpopular enough and all the work devs put into legendary armor (still waiting for the update promised year ago) is mostly wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > > > > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > > > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > > > > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > > > > > > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > > > > > > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. > > > > > > I can't consider your argument then, because you asked me to, quote: "consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them". You, yourself, just said your argument is irrelevant. > > > > I never said it was irrelevant. Knowing the exact numbers was not necessary. > > Then it's impossible to consider what you want me to consider, making your argument non-existent. No. You can take into consider things without knowing their exact numbers. Insurance companies do it all the time as well as businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > > > > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > > > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > > > > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > > > > > > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > > > > > > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. > > > > > > Why do you use word "effort" when all it is is "timegate"? > > > > I was not talking about timegates when bringing up effort. This is something that someone else injected into the discussion. When I talk about effort, I’m referring to what it takes to do the raid yourself in a group. > > > > It takes effort to learn a raid and to actually do it every week. You’d be putting in the same effort whether or not there was a timegate. > > It's irrelevant because Anet allows for raid selling. Almost everything can be bought in this game with gold or money, there's no reason to keep niche examples as special snowflakes. Raids are already unpopular enough and all the work devs put into legendary armor (still waiting for the update promised year ago) is mostly wasted. No. Raid selling and being able to buy LI’s are not the same as they’ll have different impacts on the effort it takes to do the raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > It would devalue the effort needed to earn the legendary armor. Yes, players can purchase runs to be carried but being able to buy them would put the cost at a fraction of that and enabling even more players to obtain it without actually doing raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know how much would LI cost set on the TP? What simulations did you use to count this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them. By simply offering another way for players to obtain them will reduce their cost. They’d initially start out at whatever the average cost is to purchase them through raid clears. But as more players list them, the price will drop. > > > > > > > > > > > > - how many players raid every week? > > > > > > - how many players is ready to sell their LI at this point? > > > > > > > > > > > > After initial burst on the market, whales would quickly buy them and TP barons flip cheap LIs to profit on them even more. Raiders are assumed to be very small portion of the playerbase, meanwhile people from whole game would buy LIs just to make full legendary characters. I'm pretty confident it would be much better profit for raiders than everyone expects. > > > > > > > > > > Unknown for both questions and not necessary. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll see for more than buying raids. Unless there’s enough players willing to buy them up each week, the supply will continue to build and the price will gradually fall. That rate is difficult to determine. > > > > > > > > > > It’ll be profit for all raiders, and not just sellers, yes. But it’ll still devalue the effort put into actually earning the armor. > > > > > > > > I can't consider your argument then, because you asked me to, quote: "consider the number of players that do raids and have no use for them". You, yourself, just said your argument is irrelevant. > > > > > > I never said it was irrelevant. Knowing the exact numbers was not necessary. > > > > Then it's impossible to consider what you want me to consider, making your argument non-existent. > > No. You can take into consider things without knowing their exact numbers. Insurance companies do it all the time as well as businesses. Wow :) I accept you have nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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