Conjured weapons - Ammunitions instead of ground target

[Feanor.2358]

> @"lLobo.7960" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Here is how it works. Or rather, how it doesn't:

> > Players will only stay on the weapon for its full duration if it is better to do so rather than use and drop like now. For that to happen, the overall power of the attacks you can do in these 30 seconds needs to be greater than the power of the weapon attacks you can do in this same period. Meaning you should outperform 5 Lava Fonts, 1 Meteor Shower and some other "filler" skills which still pack a punch (Plasma Blast, Pyro Blast, even Fireball). Obviously, If you *can* outperform the best you can do on a normal weapon, you want to stay on a conjure 24/7. So you conjure, you use it until it almost times out at which moment you pick up the second or cast the second charge assuming ammo system. By the time the second one runs out you're ready to cast it again. And you've replaced your 20 weapon skills (5 skills x 4 attunements) with the 5 skills from the conjure, which simply are too strong to pass.

> >

>

> Conjures can also work when you need an option for you weapon set.

> If you have staff equipped and something is reflecting projectiles, you can summon your hammer and mash it until the projectile reflection is out.

> If you are using scepter/focus and need a ton of mobility suddenly, you can conjure your FGS and zoom around.

>

> The ammo system would improve this type of gameplay (even if niche to pvp/wvw or some rare ocasions in pve) without creating an issue for the current pick-burst-drop gameplay.

>

> And for sure, other conjures like axe, frost-bow, and earth-shield could be slightly improved to become options on their own...

> Lava-axe burst could be a big stack of burns, to make it viable for a condi might/stack setup.

>

>

 

If something reflects projectiles I can drown it in AOEs. Ele's damage output have always revolved around these anyway, projectiles are just an addition. FGS is a nice mobility tool in pvp modes, but that's irrelevant in PvE. But I agree if they become ammo-based that will be a huge QoL improvement. I'm sick of people stealing my conjures, warriors placing banners on top of them and missing my pick-up by a split-second. I don't want to share them, I just want them to be handy.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

I stand by my solution of making them work like kits.

[steki.1478]

I agree on making conjureds work like kits, but with few changes to functionality so the skills dont have to get nerfed.

 

- Remove additional stats while wielding.

- No ammo, but on 9/18 second cooldown after dropping. Instant cast like kits. Fgs could have 18/27 cd.

- Add duration (10 seconds maybe) to avoid constant skill spamming - mostly because of FGS mobility. This could be an fgs only because it's the only abusable weapon in this context, but considering that ele is squishy class that has to rely on mobility (which is kinda lacking) to survive, this addition might not be necessary.

[Feanor.2358]

Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

> Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

 

The engi only has 5 weapon skills, cuz no attunements and no weaponswap.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

> > Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

>

> The engi only has 5 weapon skills, cuz no attunements and no weaponswap.

My bad I thought he had it. Anyway that's still 34 skills. Perhaps put a limit on the number of weapons we can equip at the same time?

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

> > > Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

> >

> > The engi only has 5 weapon skills, cuz no attunements and no weaponswap.

> My bad I thought he had it. Anyway that's still 34 skills. Perhaps put a limit on the number of weapons we can equip at the same time? Or ammunitions shared across all weapons, like if you use one it puts the others on cooldown as well?

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

> > > Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

> >

> > The engi only has 5 weapon skills, cuz no attunements and no weaponswap.

> My bad I thought he had it. Anyway that's still 34 skills. Perhaps put a limit on the number of weapons we can equip at the same time?

 

Or, you know, keep the mechanic different so both have their own thing.

[steki.1478]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

> > > > Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

> > >

> > > The engi only has 5 weapon skills, cuz no attunements and no weaponswap.

> > My bad I thought he had it. Anyway that's still 34 skills. Perhaps put a limit on the number of weapons we can equip at the same time?

>

> Or, you know, keep the mechanic different so both have their own thing.

 

Yes, add global cooldowns and durations to kit functionality so you cant access conjureds all the time.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

> > > > Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

> > >

> > > The engi only has 5 weapon skills, cuz no attunements and no weaponswap.

> > My bad I thought he had it. Anyway that's still 34 skills. Perhaps put a limit on the number of weapons we can equip at the same time?

>

> Or, you know, keep the mechanic different so both have their own thing.

 

Why? There's not only one class with shouts. Or Physical. Or stances. Why should we not give kits to someone else than engi too? And anyway when did I say we should make them work the same?

[lLobo.7960]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

> > > > > Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

> > > >

> > > > The engi only has 5 weapon skills, cuz no attunements and no weaponswap.

> > > My bad I thought he had it. Anyway that's still 34 skills. Perhaps put a limit on the number of weapons we can equip at the same time?

> >

> > Or, you know, keep the mechanic different so both have their own thing.

>

> Why? There's not only one class with shouts. Or Physical. Or stances. Why should we not give kits to someone else than engi too? And anyway when did I say we should make them work the same?

 

We should totally give kits to someone as part of some e-spec. But then they should have the kit functionality.

Changing conjures to a gimped version of kits is not the solution.

 

Conjures are/should be different from kits in the ways that they are not spammable and have limited duration, therefore they can have certain powerful skills that spammable kits wouldn't have. Also, being able to give the weapon to someone else is a great flavor/utility unique to the conjures. It might not be useful (in high end-game) now, but it was meta for a long time, and it could be useful again in the future.

 

So, I think conjures should get the ammo system for their utility (to conjure the weapon) to allow more flexibility and QoL on their use, but should not miss those key aspects of the set, mentioned above.

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > Kits would be far too powerful. On-demand access to 5 skills per utility slot in addition to 20 weapon skills? Come on.

> > > > > Well the engineer already has it. 10 weapon skills plus 4 with the F skills plus 25 if you equip a kit in every slot. That's a total of 39 skills. The elementalist, if we rework conjured weapons into kits, would have a potential of 40 skills. I don't think it's that big of a difference if you ask me.

> > > >

> > > > The engi only has 5 weapon skills, cuz no attunements and no weaponswap.

> > > My bad I thought he had it. Anyway that's still 34 skills. Perhaps put a limit on the number of weapons we can equip at the same time?

> >

> > Or, you know, keep the mechanic different so both have their own thing.

>

> Why? There's not only one class with shouts. Or Physical. Or stances. Why should we not give kits to someone else than engi too? And anyway when did I say we should make them work the same?

 

"Kits" kinda sound like an engi thing. And even if they decided to give kits to another class, it wouldn't make sense to pick the ele. I can see them fitting thematically for thieves, but not really for the caster classes. The rest is pretty much covered by @Ilobo.

 

> @"lLobo.7960" said:

> So, I think conjures should get the ammo system for their utility (to conjure the weapon) to allow more flexibility and QoL on their use, but should not miss those key aspects of the set, mentioned above.

>

 

Probably the best I can think of is an ammo skill that replaces the weapon skills like normally, but also changes itself to a secondary cast, which is ground-targeted and drops the second conjure, usable for as long as you hold the original. This way you can share it if you like, but you retain the full control over that. No more stealing, no more picking up banners instead.