Please nerf Twilight Oasis!

[Catchyfx.5768]

Its challanging but not impossible. Oasis is good As IT Is.

[Jahroots.6791]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > @"Fishae.2503" said:

> > and i see people giving advice on how to do better, but in T4 you really should know your stuff by then.

> And that's the problem, there are too many people in normal T4s that have no clue what to do. Probably got carried that high, or whatever else. In the last months, the average quality of pugs in normal T4s has taken a deep dive. It almost feels as if all competent people have gone into the CM groups.

>

Yep, those have definitely split the player base. Just as the dungeon reward nerf and proliferation of fractals have basically killed dungeon PUGs. Fratcal CMs and raids have done a number on regular T4s.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Jahroots.6791" said:

> > @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > > @"Fishae.2503" said:

> > > and i see people giving advice on how to do better, but in T4 you really should know your stuff by then.

> > And that's the problem, there are too many people in normal T4s that have no clue what to do. Probably got carried that high, or whatever else. In the last months, the average quality of pugs in normal T4s has taken a deep dive. It almost feels as if all competent people have gone into the CM groups.

> >

> Yep, those have definitely split the player base. Just as the dungeon reward nerf and proliferation of fractals have basically killed dungeon PUGs. Fratcal CMs and raids have done a number on regular T4s.

So did the difficulty shift up. Some people that were okay at old t4 difficulty levels just weren't good enough for Observatory or Oasis. Others were good enough themselves, but still decided that it wasn't fun anymore. And others moved to CMs, and/or decided to run in statics only. Or migrated to raids.

 

If the trend with the new fractal difficulty is going to continue, i'd expect the amount of players in t4 to shrink even more.

[Jahroots.6791]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> So did the difficulty shift up. Some people that were okay at old t4 difficulty levels just weren't good enough for Observatory or Oasis. Others were good enough themselves, but still decided that it wasn't fun anymore. And others moved to CMs, and/or decided to run in statics only. Or migrated to raids.

>

> If the trend with the new fractal difficulty is going to continue, i'd expect the amount of players in t4 to shrink even more.

 

Yeah, I'm not too optimistic about the Deepstone fractal, tbh. I feel like they got the level of difficulty in Nightmare just right and should probably have just stopped there for a while. Between the instability updates and re-works I think it'd be nice to have another 'chill' fractal. I don't need to be on the edge of my seat to be fully engaged and entertained. /shrugs.

 

 

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Jahroots.6791" said:

> > @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > > @"Fishae.2503" said:

> > > and i see people giving advice on how to do better, but in T4 you really should know your stuff by then.

> > And that's the problem, there are too many people in normal T4s that have no clue what to do. Probably got carried that high, or whatever else. In the last months, the average quality of pugs in normal T4s has taken a deep dive. It almost feels as if all competent people have gone into the CM groups.

> >

> Yep, those have definitely split the player base. Just as the dungeon reward nerf and proliferation of fractals have basically killed dungeon PUGs. Fratcal CMs and raids have done a number on regular T4s.

Personally I only join fractal groups that also do both CMs and require at least 100 KP. Anything else is a waste of time because the chance to have garbage people is too big

People complaining about T4 only groups getting worse are just mad that they dont get carried anymore

[Jahroots.6791]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> People complaining about T4 only groups getting worse are just mad that they dont get carried anymore

 

I suppose that depends on your definition of 'being carried'. I won't pretend that I don't prefer with my team's got a couple people of at _least_ equal or higher skill than mine, but this doesn't mean that I'm downed on the floor half the time or not pulling my weight re: DPS, support/healing and mechanics where applicable.

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"Jahroots.6791" said:

> I suppose that depends on your definition of 'being carried'. I won't pretend that I don't prefer with my team's got a couple people of at _least_ equal or higher skill than mine, but this doesn't mean that I'm downed on the floor half the time or not pulling my weight re: DPS, support/healing and mechanics where applicable.

Don't take him too seriously. A godlike being like Malediktus doesn't know any state other than carrying the rest of the group, since they're mere mortals.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > @"Jahroots.6791" said:

> > I suppose that depends on your definition of 'being carried'. I won't pretend that I don't prefer with my team's got a couple people of at _least_ equal or higher skill than mine, but this doesn't mean that I'm downed on the floor half the time or not pulling my weight re: DPS, support/healing and mechanics where applicable.

> Don't take him too seriously. A godlike being like Malediktus doesn't know any state other than carrying the rest of the group, since they're mere mortals.

Unless it's pvp. Then getting carried is okay.

 

[Shikaru.7618]

Just anecdotally, now that CMs have been around for a while, it's caused a pseudo tier5 to form in fractals where s lot of the experienced players are joining LNHB 50 essence groups, while those who struggled in t4s are stuck with others who also struggle. Back when dungeons were popular, there was more opportunity for a newbie to learn tactics from someone exped because the price of failure was low and tactics were relatively simple to communicate. Now, the opportunities for worse players to learn from better ones in an organic way is diminishing which makes learning a much more deliberate effort and one that requires players to seek resources outside of game to obtain if they hope to break I to the tier 5 groups. Ie. Guild recruitment forums or video guides. It is unfortunate because the if skilled population stays relatively small, it means anet has less incentive to cater to them.

 

TO is just another example where this divide becomes evident since to cm groups, it's just another repetitive daily with no exclusive reward and to pugs, it's the one you skip because it's too hard with no obvious path to easier completion other than "hit your special action key". How to avoid damage efficiently is unfortunately not taught by the game.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

I was in a rather good group when we were doing her on T3 and we killed here on 1st try. Just get used to the mechanics (I tried T4 with others, less skilled players first, so I knew the mechanics quite well - be cause we failed like 5-6 times and gave up).

 

It was really easy this time around, but I agree with many bosses the amount of visual effects and rings on the floor and copious amounts of AoE damage fields is getting a bit out of hand lately.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> I was in a rather good group when we were doing her on T3 and we killed here on 1st try. Just get used to the mechanics (I tried T4 with others, less skilled players first, so I knew the mechanics quite well - be cause we failed like 5-6 times and gave up).

>

> It was really easy this time around, but I agree with many bosses the amount of visual effects and rings on the floor and copious amounts of AoE damage fields is getting a bit out of hand lately.

 

Yeah, but without this amount of AOEs there would be no excuse for handing you a ridiculously powerful defensive ability to play with. ANet is doing pretty good job with their SAK designs lately. They feel pretty fun to use, and of course the downside of this is the content they're used in has to be tweaked a bit higher so that the SAK doesn't trivialize it immediately.

[Spicy.2481]

> @"Shikaru.7618" said:

> Just anecdotally, now that CMs have been around for a while, it's caused a pseudo tier5 to form in fractals where s lot of the experienced players are joining LNHB 50 essence groups, while those who struggled in t4s are stuck with others who also struggle. Back when dungeons were popular, there was more opportunity for a newbie to learn tactics from someone exped because the price of failure was low and tactics were relatively simple to communicate. Now, the opportunities for worse players to learn from better ones in an organic way is diminishing which makes learning a much more deliberate effort and one that requires players to seek resources outside of game to obtain if they hope to break I to the tier 5 groups. Ie. Guild recruitment forums or video guides. It is unfortunate because the if skilled population stays relatively small, it means anet has less incentive to cater to them.

>

> TO is just another example where this divide becomes evident since to cm groups, it's just another repetitive daily with no exclusive reward and to pugs, it's the one you skip because it's too hard with no obvious path to easier completion other than "hit your special action key". How to avoid damage efficiently is unfortunately not taught by the game.

 

50kp? Try 500.. Even a casual player like me who only has fractal savant and doesn't run fractals daily has over 340kps. Also, you literally have a tutorial on how to dodge at the start game and to which it really boils down on classes like weaver(metabuild mind you), that's your only way to avoid damage/getting hit apart from your chrono sharing some aegis here and there.

 

Biggest issue with the community is that ppl are too lazy to bother to learn stuff themselves, they want everything catered easily to them and after that they end up on forums calling for nerfs that are not needed.

[lawrenceCG.3896]

I think the devs noticed my post or something because this is what I saw in the newly released note "**Checkpoints **in the Captain Mai Trin Boss, **Twilight Oasis**, and Underground Facility fractals have been updated". I am glad they made this change, hope this helps all the players.

[Glider.5792]

> @"lawrenceCG.3896" said:

> I think the devs noticed my post or something because this is what I saw in the newly released note "**Checkpoints **in the Captain Mai Trin Boss, **Twilight Oasis**, and Underground Facility fractals have been updated". I am glad they made this change, hope this helps all the players.

 

Adjusted checkpoint wont make the last boss easier ;)

[lawrenceCG.3896]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"lawrenceCG.3896" said:

> > I think the devs noticed my post or something because this is what I saw in the newly released note "**Checkpoints **in the Captain Mai Trin Boss, **Twilight Oasis**, and Underground Facility fractals have been updated". I am glad they made this change, hope this helps all the players.

>

> Adjusted checkpoint wont make the last boss easier ;)

 

We will see that once we do it, right, until then its just a speculation.

[Deepcuts.9740]

It is not nice of me to say this, but this is just a learn to play problem.

The more you practice, the more you start developing the precog in you and avoid lethal blows.

 

Some people don't want to train for anything anymore. A good example is the latest fractal Deepstone.

When it became available, I joined a level 11 run of Deepstone to see what is what. Learned a bit the mechanics and what to expect.

One hour later, I joined a level 84 Deepstone and to my surprise, the other 4 in the party had no idea what to do and were going splat all over the place, while in the same time accusing everyone else but themselves for it, proving that they did not have the decency of trying the fractal on a lower difficulty scale to learn its mechanics.

 

Another good example is almost any training group for old raids.

The squad is formed and ready to go, but 1st timers without any knowledge of the raid are dead quiet. If anyone asks "anyone needs any pointers?", dead silence again. So as soon as the party starts, 1st timers will wipe, taking the rest of the squad with them.

If any tactic is not fully understood, nobody will ask for pointers, cause you know, asking is a stigma these days. Anyone can do anything!

 

And lastly, veterans without any patience, but with a lot of self importance can cause problems with difficult fractals.

If one or more people in party looks to be "a noob", those veterans will be mighty fast at pointing that out, causing unnecessary drama, instead of giving some tips. Many times these so called veterans will just leave at the very first sign of trouble, or vote to kick, because of course they never make mistakes, creating some of those @lastboss lfgs.

 

What I would really like is for the rewards to go up a bit for the more challenging/time consuming fractals/content and not the difficulty to be scaled down.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Deepcuts.9740" said:

> Another good example is almost any training group for old raids.

> The squad is formed and ready to go, but 1st timers without any knowledge of the raid are dead quiet. If anyone asks "anyone needs any pointers?", dead silence again. So as soon as the party starts, 1st timers will wipe, taking the rest of the squad with them.

> If any tactic is not fully understood, nobody will ask for pointers, cause you know, asking is a stigma these days. Anyone can do anything!

It's not that asking is a stigma. It's that the question is bad. A person that doesn't understand the mechanics yet, has no knowledge about what they should ask. Instead, the question should be "does anyone needs a fast refresher/full explanation of the mechanics". If you ask it that way, you will see that people needing those explanations generally _will_ speak up.

In clearly labelled training runs at least (because, obviously, someone joining a kill run while not knowing mechanics is not going to admit that and get kicked)

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Doesn't need a nerf necessarily, just a rework on the spammy spam attacks.

[andyhens.4172]

imo the issue is that TA and SO are disproportionately difficult compared to the rest of the fractals. They both feel more like raids.

[ZhouX.8742]

This OP is why the new fractal is so brain dead easy with no CM

 

Sigh

[Zenith.7301]

I can guarantee most wipes are probably due to people disrespecting Amala's Balthazar phase and facetanking her meteor crash leap attack that pretty much 1 shots most people. Or not moving during lightning storm phase.

 

As far as trash, if you bother to bring some blinds or CC and funnel them in they're pretty trivial.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

The only really hard phase is the last - Balthazar. I always die there (last 5%), be cause too much going on. But luckily we had some good players who could dodge all the shit out of this. I really dislike the fact that some hits just down you instantly. I was never a fan of that. There should be some really obvious good telegraphed attacks who can insta down you, but not one of the random shitton attacks. Then again, it is T4 and not T3 or 2, which are easy enough.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Twilight Oasis is excelent example of sometimes it is better to do less. In Boss room most of the pugs just running around as crazy orr undead chickens. I stand in 1 place and shift left right left right if aoe is under my feet. Dodge only if Big AOE wave or some instabilities hits you. Yeah sometimes you get to bad place where you just die but its rly not that hard.

 

Dont focus on having a best dps. Focus on not beign hit and She dies...Only tricky seems to be Dwayna and Balthazar. Dwayne have that condi thing with huge aoe..just run i small circle.... all

Balthazar have bigger delay on his Aoes. Last Phase is sometimes hardcore(with bad instabilities) but still i think this is good. No ez Fractals

[Edgy McEdgelord.4790]

Just witnessed a case of this thread on T3 yesterday: Our group was totally fine except for the Chronomancer that just kept on going down over and over and over and OVER again. Every single time he was ressed back up he took a hit not even 3 seconds later, panicked and rolled into the next hit - dowing him again. Almost looked comical. We still completed the fight as a team of 4 (since he didnt have a chance to do jack shit) but it was a true hassle and I've never had to give so much support as a Firebrand ever before, lol.

 

And after Amala finally died he burst out into rage, telling us how bad of a team we were (mind you: there was no real support since I have zero healing on any of my gear because I play glass canon for the most part) for not taking care of him and yadda yadda then left the group. And all I can say about this is: Get a grip of sidestepping. Seriously, dodging in this specific encounter often means more harm than just walking five steps to the left or right because dodge roll range is almost guaranteed to get you into the next circle of her spammy spams and you'll need another dodge for this one as well.

[ATMAvatar.5749]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Personally I only join fractal groups that also do both CMs and require at least 100 KP. Anything else is a waste of time because the chance to have garbage people is too big

 

Sadly, I often find myself caught in the middle of two extremes.

 

I run into a lot of PUG T4 players that have trouble, and I'm mostly OK carrying one or two, but I get more groups of late that die to stupid things like standing in fire or stacking with social awkwardness or dropping flux bombs on the group where it's actually 3 or more players doing it.

 

On the other hand, I actively avoid CM groups because my experience when they first came out was extremely toxic (lot of blame-shifting for failures and inappropriate kicks). The LNHB and essence requirements for present-day CM groups doesn't give me much confidence that the toxicity has changed.

 

The saving grace is that finding a new T4 group is relatively quick, so I can jettison out of disaster groups and generally find a passible if not pretty good replacement.