Request: Make the game more challenging

[Stoneheart.6547]

Hi. This is something I've been wanting for a long time:

I'd love it if GW2 were a little bit more difficult. I mean, make all PvE monsters a bit more difficult and increase their respective exp to reflect that change , to make every 1vs1 battle against monsters more fun and challenging and encourage parties to be formed since level 1 or maybe upper levels. There would be some people who'd rather playing alone, because it's also fun, but that'd be a personal challenge.

 

Another change I'd suggest is for players to feel more ecouraged not to let themselves to get killed. I mean, make death a little bit punishable. That can be achieved by reducing stats per broken armor part or charging a bit of gold on armor repair or a mix of both.

 

And finally, I'd love it if increasing a crafting skill were more rewarding. Maybe if you could sell ascended gear you make, or being able to sell more of your work. I love it when I can make myself some profit only from crafting (*Feels like a businessman*).

 

How can I make these ideas reach ANet's dev's? Would you like these changes to be made?

[LucianDK.8615]

Look at Heart of Thorns at release, the devs listened far too much to the vocal minority that demanded harder content. It proving to be super difficult for the casuals to deal with. Only now after significant nerfs to HoT, the difficulty increase is much better.

 

Though Path of Fire is paced much better, having more room to maneuver in. As well getting rid of the multilayered mess of the hot maps that added to the confusion and turned off many players.

 

So no, GW2 do not need higher difficulty. Thats what challenge motes is for in fractals.

[Stoneheart.6547]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Look at Heart of Thorns at release, the devs listened far too much to the vocal minority that demanded harder content. It proving to be super difficult for the casuals to deal with. Only now after significant nerfs to HoT, the difficulty increase is much better.

>

> Though Path of Fire is paced much better, having more room to maneuver in. As well getting rid of the multilayered mess of the hot maps that added to the confusion and turned off many players.

>

> So no, GW2 do not need higher difficulty. Thats what challenge motes is for in fractals.

 

I was talking about the base game, not expansions. I think the base game could be modified a little to increase the challenging content for everyone, not only for players who have bought the expansions, and also, I was talking about the difficulty from the start, not at the endgame. It doesn't need to be impossible to solo, all basic content could be soloable but more challenging, like old school MMORPG's.

[Endless Soul.5178]

> @"Stoneheart.6547" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > Look at Heart of Thorns at release, the devs listened far too much to the vocal minority that demanded harder content. It proving to be super difficult for the casuals to deal with. Only now after significant nerfs to HoT, the difficulty increase is much better.

> >

> > Though Path of Fire is paced much better, having more room to maneuver in. As well getting rid of the multilayered mess of the hot maps that added to the confusion and turned off many players.

> >

> > So no, GW2 do not need higher difficulty. Thats what challenge motes is for in fractals.

>

> I was talking about the base game, not expansions. **I think the base game could be modified a little to increase the challenging content for everyone**, not only for players who have bought the expansions, and also, I was talking about the difficulty from the start, not at the endgame. It doesn't need to be impossible to solo, all basic content could be soloable but more challenging, like old school MMORPG's.

 

Not everyone wants that though.

[Dante.1763]

I wouldnt call the reaction to HoT the vocal minority....very few people in the threads at the time where double posters. It was people posting and leaving the forums and never coming back from what i saw. (DONT QOUTE THIS...)

 

 

@"Stoneheart.6547"

 

Gotta disagree here. After the initial release of HoT and Anet listening to the smaller playerbase of hard core players they had a massive outcry of people asking for nerfs and or leaving the game because of how hard Hot was, forcing anet to nerf it(twice if i recall), and people still have problems with it and we still get posts about the HoT and even PoF being to hard.

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> I wouldnt call the reaction to HoT the vocal minority....very few people in the threads at the time where double posters. It was people posting and leaving the forums and never coming back from what i saw.

 

you misunderstood what I said. It was people -pre- hot whom was clamoring for higher difficulty.

[Dante.1763]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > I wouldnt call the reaction to HoT the vocal minority....very few people in the threads at the time where double posters. It was people posting and leaving the forums and never coming back from what i saw.

>

> you misunderstood what I said. It was people -pre- hot whom was clamoring for higher difficulty.

 

Yup that was my bad, misread the "pre" bit as "post" apologies!!!

 

[Stoneheart.6547]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> I wouldnt call the reaction to HoT the vocal minority....very few people in the threads at the time where double posters. It was people posting and leaving the forums and never coming back from what i saw. (DONT QOUTE THIS...)

>

>

> @"Stoneheart.6547"

>

> Gotta disagree here. After the initial release of HoT and Anet listening to the smaller playerbase of hard core players they had a massive outcry of people asking for nerfs and or leaving the game because of how hard Hot was, forcing anet to nerf it(twice if i recall), and people still have problems with it and we still get posts about the HoT and even PoF being to hard.

 

But, what I mean is to make it just a little bit more difficult, not impossible to solo. HoT has a decent difficulty for solo as an endgame content and it's fine. PoF has an appropriate difficulty. But the base game (that's my focus) needs to be a little bit more difficult in open world. Killing one monster in 1-2 seconds is not fun, and not having the risk of dying against them nor consequences makes the game so easy it bores new players. I've met several people and invited several more who want to play this game and the reality is they quit before reaching level 20. They don't feel any challenge, and it's also boring for me when I want to make a new character. I feel no challenge, no excitement. That's why I am suggesting this.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

And, there are threads/posts from new players stating they find the game too difficult, for a myriad of reasons. ArenaNet has the metrics, and the data from testing; they probably know best where the difficulty-scale should lie. (They did institute the NPE, due to feedback/data from new player testing.)

I think it's difficult for seasoned players to gauge the difficulty of the Core game, as understanding how the game mechanics work, and experience color the experience.

 

I know I died a lot in the beginning chapters of the Personal Story when first starting; now, a new character never even comes close.

 

Good luck.

[Stoneheart.6547]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> And, there are threads/posts from new players stating they find the game too difficult, for a myriad of reasons. ArenaNet has the metrics, and the data from testing; they probably know best where the difficulty-scale should lie. (They did institute the NPE, due to feedback/data from new player testing.)

> I think it's difficult for seasoned players to gauge the difficulty of the Core game, as understanding how the game mechanics work, and experience color the experience.

>

> I know I died a lot in the beginning chapters of the Personal Story when first starting; now, a new character never even comes close.

>

> Good luck.

 

The difficulty levels on higher level maps could be harder, first levels could stay the same. it could be a difficulty curve. Or at least adjusting how hard enemies can hit and implementing more penalties for dying, making a player think twice before facing some monsters without caring about personal safety. I don't mean making the monsters more difficult to kill, but making them worthy opponents.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Stoneheart.6547" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > And, there are threads/posts from new players stating they find the game too difficult, for a myriad of reasons. ArenaNet has the metrics, and the data from testing; they probably know best where the difficulty-scale should lie. (They did institute the NPE, due to feedback/data from new player testing.)

> > I think it's difficult for seasoned players to gauge the difficulty of the Core game, as understanding how the game mechanics work, and experience color the experience.

> >

> > I know I died a lot in the beginning chapters of the Personal Story when first starting; now, a new character never even comes close.

> >

> > Good luck.

>

> The difficulty levels on higher level maps could be harder, first levels could stay the same. it could be a difficulty curve. Or at least adjusting how hard enemies can hit and implementing more penalties for dying, making a player think twice before facing some monsters without caring about personal safety. I don't mean making the monsters more difficult to kill, but making them worthy opponents.

 

Considering they removed the cost of armor repairs, reduced the cost WP travel among other things to reduce the penalty on death i doubt they want to make it worse. On top of that, as stated, higher level maps /where/ harder at one point in time, they nerfed them all, including orr because of lots and lots of player feedback.

[joneirikb.7506]

Regarding the Core difficulty:

 

* I'd like to see the maps scale better, low level to be easy, higher level to be harder.

* Make people actually learn to use their entire character/build to overcome things.

* Keep some easy areas in the game, a lot of people likes those (and the game allows you to stay in them and level if you want).

* Encourage people to actually group up, this is the least social MMO I've seen.

 

Look at maps like: Southsun Cove, Dry Top, Silver Wastes, as a good middle-ground.

 

---

 

The main problem is that ANet does not want to go back and change/modify old content, I believe they stated that it was just too much work and generally not worth the effort.

 

I do find it sad that I tend to get better PVE experience in the PVP/WVW modes, than I do in PVE-Core. The test dummies in pvp lobby are the most fun AI's to fight in the game, and the general WvW guards are typically harder and better set up than most pve mobs under Elite/Champion level.

 

---

 

Another option, that I've stated before: Instead of changing entire maps, add some more challenging content to each map. I've suggested something similar to the "Charr Warbands" from GW1, which actually used classes and builds to work together, and stick together.

 

Example Gendarran Fields/Harathi Hinterlands: Have a couple of "Centaur Patrols" move around in semi-set patterns across parts of the map. Let these be 4-5 random types using the combat AI's from the PvP test dummies. Mark them as group content.

 

People can try to solo them if they want, and if they're good they can manage it. Most others wants to group up at least 4-5 people to take them out, which is great as it encourages people to group. Others that doesn't want to or just want map completion can just wait until they walk past, and grab the vista behind them.

 

---

 

Considering the current state of the game, it is important that any changes doesn't alienate people that like it easy (too much at least), Core tyria been this easy for 5+ years, changing that now would just make a lot of people very angry.

 

So any change to difficulty will need to take that into consideration, and find a middle ground, or a way to circumvent it. Open World can still be just zerged down, but that shouldn't be the only way to do open world for people.

 

---

 

Regarding your other suggestions:

 

I don't see any reason to punish harder on death, most people already get a negative feeling when they die, and adding more salt to the injury for no real benefit doesn't strike me as a useful thing to do. I'd argue that reducing the time of downed state might be a more efficient way to solve this, creates a bit more urgency, and downtime already has so much hitpoints it feels like you're harder to kill than when up and about (if you run a damage build at least).

 

Crafting in this game is pretty different, and I don't see those kind of changes. There are things you can create that earns a profit, but you're going to have to research them (gw2 wiki and gw2efficiency sites are good for that). One of the largest problems to your idea is that the mats are generally more worth than the finished item, because of how much you can make with the mats. And Ascended has always been account bound, and that won't change, since it was made to be a long term personal goal to get, and not something you could just buy of the TP.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Stoneheart.6547" said:

> The difficulty levels on higher level maps could be harder, first levels could stay the same. it could be a difficulty curve. Or at least adjusting how hard enemies can hit and implementing more penalties for dying, making a player think twice before facing some monsters without caring about personal safety. I don't mean making the monsters more difficult to kill, but making them worthy opponents.

 

Core maps used to be harder. They have since made the L80 areas easier.

HoT maps used to be harder. They have since made them easier.

PoF maps are easier... and there are people calling for nerfs nonetheless.

 

Monsters are only worthy opponents for a short while. Once you learn the techniques (and proper gear+builds), they become easier _for you_ (but not for those who haven't adapted yet). Those that do adapt look for new challenges. The result is that it's really, really hard to find a balance that appeals to everyone. The general strategy for MMO studios is to aim near the middle of the bell curve, and provide challenging instanced content for those who like that sort of thing.

 

It's ultimately not realistic for ANet to spend too much time on making some corners of Tyria more challenging for the 10-30% who want worthier opponents, when they won't remain challenged for long and the other 70%+ get frustrated.

[LucianDK.8615]

and harder content is available, fractals and raids.

[JDub.1530]

> @"Stoneheart.6547" said:

> not impossible to solo.

 

Based on what standard? There are plenty of things in game NOW that people find laughably easy that others find impossible. So by whose standard do we measure what is "more difficult, but not impossible"?

[ShaunIOW.1672]

Good god no and no again, there are already far too many encounters that aren't challenging they're downright tedious and a boring grind just slowly wearing the bosses down. Maybe make a battle a bit more tactical, but don't increase the tedium and grind in the guise of making it more challenging.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> * Encourage people to actually group up, this is the least social MMO I've seen.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you said, but this point... it doesn't actively encourage grouping, but it does actively encourage large numbers of players to actively help other players. It does this by offering zero penalties and only benefits to helping someone else out. Just because you don't have to do it in a party doesn't mean it's not social. You can constantly find people just sitting in low level starter areas in this MMO just WAITING to help other newer players, offering advice in map and say, and just generally being welcoming. You rarely see this to the same extent in other MMOs, how is it **not** social?

[Mythiuz.4320]

> @"Stoneheart.6547" said:

> Another change I'd suggest is for players to feel more ecouraged not to let themselves to get killed. I mean, make death a little bit punishable. That can be achieved by reducing stats per broken armor part or charging a bit of gold on armor repair or a mix of both.

 

 

The reduced stats per broken armor part is already a thing I'm pretty sure.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"JDub.1530" said:

> > @"Stoneheart.6547" said:

> > not impossible to solo.

>

> Based on what standard? There are plenty of things in game NOW that people find laughably easy that others find impossible. So by whose standard do we measure what is "more difficult, but not impossible"?

 

Exactly... I find Arah to be a relatively easy solo experience (except p4...) and regularly solo other dungeon paths as well, just for fun/nostalgia/tokens. I don't expect my idea of easy to be the same as someone else's, though.

[Julischka Bean.7491]

> @"Stoneheart.6547" said:

> Hi. This is something I've been wanting for a long time:

> I'd love it if GW2 were a little bit more difficult. I mean, make all PvE monsters a bit more difficult and increase their respective exp to reflect that change , to make every 1vs1 battle against monsters more fun and challenging and encourage parties to be formed since level 1 or maybe upper levels. There would be some people who'd rather playing alone, because it's also fun, but that'd be a personal challenge.

>

> Another change I'd suggest is for players to feel more ecouraged not to let themselves to get killed. I mean, make death a little bit punishable. That can be achieved by reducing stats per broken armor part or charging a bit of gold on armor repair or a mix of both.

>

> And finally, I'd love it if increasing a crafting skill were more rewarding. Maybe if you could sell ascended gear you make, or being able to sell more of your work. I love it when I can make myself some profit only from crafting (*Feels like a businessman*).

>

> How can I make these ideas reach ANet's dev's? Would you like these changes to be made?

 

NOOOOOOO......are you one of those young whippersnappers with perfect reflexes and have been playing a half a jillion years?

My answer is no. I do not want these changes made. JDub said everything I want to say.

[derd.6413]

anet needs to better teach how to play the game. after that anet might be able to make the game harder

[wraith.7243]

No, its not a good idea. Making all mobs more difficult in the open world was already tried with Orr and HoT. It doesen't add to the challenge of the game, it just makes getting around a tedious pain in the A**.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

>

> HoT maps used to be harder. They have since made them easier.

> PoF maps are easier... and there are people calling for nerfs nonetheless.

 

To be fair, these statements (as is) paint an inaccurate picture, not because they lack truth, but because they lack a complete explanation. The differences in difficulty are slight.

 

+ HOT: The "nerfs" consisted of a few changes to Champion attacks that were producing one-hit kills with little to no warning, and a reduction of mob density on several routes that ANet saw were most utilized. No changes were announced to mob capabilities other than those to Champions.

+ PoF: PoF mobs are on average no less likely to kill the unwary or unskilled than HoT mobs. It's as possible to over-aggro in PoF as it is in HoT, maybe even more so as PoF mobs seem to aggro from further away, perhaps because of mounts. PoF maps are easier _primarily_ because they are much easier to _navigate_. Another difference is that there are a couple of mobs in HoT that can kill the unwary with power damage (Snipers and Shadowleapers) and these mobs have only one counterpart in PoF (Forged Forerunner). Those two mob types from HoT also have "glass cannon" health and armor, and are easily disposed of once you know their tricks. PoF mobs in general rely more on condition damage than power damage. The dangerous ones, like Awakened Canids and Abominations, also come only as Veterans (or up?).

 

As to the OP's issue, I think GW2 would have been a better game overall if core mob difficulty was as it was very early in the game. Also, the rest of Ill's post is spot on.

 

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

>

> Monsters are only worthy opponents for a short while. Once you learn the techniques (and proper gear+builds), they become easier _for you_ (but not for those who haven't adapted yet). Those that do adapt look for new challenges. The result is that it's really, really hard to find a balance that appeals to everyone. The general strategy for MMO studios is to aim near the middle of the bell curve, and provide challenging instanced content for those who like that sort of thing.

>

> It's ultimately not realistic for ANet to spend too much time on making some corners of Tyria more challenging for the 10-30% who want worthier opponents, when they won't remain challenged for long and the other 70%+ get frustrated.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

I think things are in a pretty good place. If you want additional challenges, they are available even in open world. Go solo some bounties. Even very skilled players will find many of those challenging. The way events/bosses scale make them friendly for less skilled players, but there's no reason you can't do your own thing here. Forcing everyone else to play it your way by turning open world into a pseudo-dungeon just ain't gonna happen, sorry to say.

[Haishao.6851]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> and harder content is available, fractals and raids.

Too bad it's instanced.