Mirage's Axe

[OriOri.8724]

Disclaimer - I have barely been able to play PoF since it dropped last friday, a little over an hour total, only enough time to complete the first 2 story instances (not counting the strange prologue with Ellen) and then just wander around a tiny bit. So this might just be a lack of experience on my part.

 

Mirage's Axe is a weapon that I want to enjoy. Its insanely pretty with its attacks, and I really love the concept behind it, not to mention using Axe3. I really do want to love this weapon, and the playstyle it brings. However, even though I do like using it, I am having trouble enjoying it as much as I want to, and certainly an order of magnitude less than I enjoyed shield on chrono. And I think I'm narrowing down on the issue. Axe is a melee weapon on a class designed with all active defenses in mind, on a spec that has turned its dodge into an offensive move, that doesn't offer any sort of defense, not even vigor to refresh endurance faster.

In general, I didn't have any trouble staying alive while using Axe/Sword + Staff (I know, its a shit combination, but I didn't want to waste the little time I had coming up with a better weapon set for mirage, OH sword and staff were already equipped on my mesmer so I went with it), but I definitely found my health dropping far faster than I wanted it to, and I found myself having to leave combat pretty often in order to wait those last few seconds for false oasis to be off CD. Later this week, after I get some more playtime in, and on a better build for mirage, I'll re-evaluate. But right now I think that Axe is fundamentally inferior to MH sword because we lose the defense of BF in order to use axe.

 

Instead of adding a generic evade to axe2 like some have suggested however, I'd rather see axe skills grant endurance. I think that 5 endurance per hit on Axe2/3, and the third hit in the auto chain is pretty fair. This could either be baseline, or move the CD reduction of mirrored axes baseline and add the endurance recharge to mirrored axes. Alternatively, a mirror could be added to Axe3, just to give us that little bit of extra mirage cloak on Axe. Or, if not endurance, just granting us vigor could help as well.

 

So, overall (And I'm sure my opinion will change as I get more time in on mirage, get a better build, and get more used to using dodges offensively), I absolutely love the design of axe and its skills, I just think that since it doesn't offer any defensive capabilities at all that it will never be a serious contender for our MH weapon considering how important active defenses are for mesmers. What do you guys think? Also, have you found a build that incorporates Axe that doesn't feel like a fish out of water in terms of avoiding attacks?

[Durzlla.6295]

Mirage has defensive options, the entire middle line is a defensive option, and it does have a source of vigor, every time you shatter, as well as the heal skill.

 

I haven't had too many issues with not dying with Mirage, the amount of evade uptime i have is insane, and being able to break stuns on dodge is a gift from god.

[OriOri.8724]

The utility skills have defenses yes, but Axe itself doesn't. To me, the weapon feels weak because of that.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

I mean...axe 3 is an evade.

 

My issue with axe is primarily how skill 2 feels. It's incredibly sluggish to activate, and it feels really bad sometimes.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

> @Durzlla.6295 said:

> Mirage has defensive options, the entire middle line is a defensive option, and it does have a source of vigor, every time you shatter, as well as the heal skill.

>

> I haven't had too many issues with not dying with Mirage, the amount of evade uptime i have is insane, and being able to break stuns on dodge is a gift from god.

 

This 1000%

[bart.3687]

Axe 2 could use some love, I agree that it's kinda uncomfortable to use sometimes. I'd also like to see autoattack sped up, just a little bit tho.

 

My main issue with axe is however its ambush. It has close to no impact. Maybe it should fire more phantasmal axes? Dunno.

 

But I must admit that I'm totally in love with axe's aesthetics: the idea of phantom axes flying around is superb imo. I also adore its attacks' animations on asura characters. Good job on visuals.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

Lets not forget that mirage has some of the best condition cleanses in the game... With the mantra rework, mantra of the resolve now cleanses 3 conditions (x2) and gives resistance on recast, torch 4 ( if you use torch ) removes 1. So, base mesmer has the ability to remove 7 conditions instantly. Throw in Elusive mind and now your dodges remove 1 condition and breaks stuns, which brings us to 9 condition cleanses + 2 stun breaks. If you run Jaunt that's another 3 conditions paired with decoy and blink + 2 stun breaks. That's 12 condition cleanses and 4 stun breaks and Axe 3 breaks enemy targeting.... If you can't survive with 12 condition cleanses, 4 stun breaks, 2 invis, and detargeting then you're doing something wrong. Axe is part of completely new mechanics, traits, and utilities. When you use a combination of the above you'll begin to see just how brilliant Mirage Axe is! I will say that the damage is a bit low for a melee weapon and the ambush skills are a bit lack luster, but other than that I'm loving it!!

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

> @bart.3687 said:

> Axe 2 could use some love, I agree that it's kinda uncomfortable to use sometimes. I'd also like to see autoattack sped up, just a little bit tho.

>

> My main issue with axe is however its ambush. It has close to no impact. Maybe it should fire more phantasmal axes? Dunno.

>

> But I must admit that I'm totally in love with axe's aesthetics: the idea of phantom axes flying around is superb imo. I also adore its attacks' animations on asura characters. Good job on visuals.

 

agree with you 100% the axe ambush is one of the worse, it's hard to justify using a dodge which equates to 1 condi removal, 1 break stun, and an evade for such a low return.

[Ryouzanpaku.1273]

@"Syprus Soulslayer.1640"

Yeah other then fact it isn't doing damage it really looks great... It should actually become Mesmer official motto :)

 

(Sorry I am bit bitter these days)

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

lol, I'm sure ANET will make adjustments as needed in the future

[novas.1845]

> @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

> I mean...axe 3 is an evade.

>

> My issue with axe is primarily how skill 2 feels. It's incredibly sluggish to activate, and it feels really bad sometimes.

 

I definitely agree with this. It kind of feels like I'm lagging when I use it sometimes. It's weird because it's only with the axe skills that I notice this. Maybe it has to do with all the server issues idk lol.

[Esplen.3940]

Ah yes, 4 seconds of regen when you dodge, 1.5s of prot when you dodge, and a stunbreak when you dodge. These are all active defenses gained by going the middle li- oh wait no, the only active defense you get is the stunbreak, the rest are passive. Clearly options of strong defensive tools. The stunbreak is really nice, but other than that the middle line are really, really passive. They (nonGM) also give the vibe of being minor traits as opposed to majors, and don't compare well to their alternatives.

 

Axe3 is an evade, and if you hold it and time it it's pretty nice. Honestly, it feels weird having Axe2 be a whirl finisher and then none of Mirage giving you fields. Not even False Oasis (just look at that name).

 

The ambush is definitely underwhelming. It almost requires being traited and even then offers a minimal increase in damage (and a decrease compared to the final auto). Additionally, the Axe ambush resets the auto attack chain while the Scepter ambush does not (this might be a fluke on the Scepter's part, I haven't thoroughly tested Sword's because I don't like clones unless they're the Riverlands meta clones).

[Abelisk.4527]

Whenever I'm out of illusions I use Axe 2, but in doing so I dodge while casting it (another example of how Mirage Cloak benefits!)

[glenndevis.8327]

I think the good old evasion frame on Axe #2 is still the better idea.

Make it less risky to use.

[UrMom.4205]

> @novas.1845 said:

> > @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

> > I mean...axe 3 is an evade.

> >

> > My issue with axe is primarily how skill 2 feels. It's incredibly sluggish to activate, and it feels really bad sometimes.

>

> I definitely agree with this. It kind of feels like I'm lagging when I use it sometimes. It's weird because it's only with the axe skills that I notice this. Maybe it has to do with all the server issues idk lol.

 

Same, the little bit of sluggish/lag ALWAYS causes me to hit the button again and then my character does the skill twice lol. Pretty annoying.

[OriOri.8724]

Axe 2 is definitely sluggish, but I found Axe3 to be even more so? I find that sometimes I'll be waiting for a solid 1/2 second before it even starts, and yes, I have been interrupted while casting it before, even though its supposed to have an evade frame. Because of that I honestly forgot it had one.

[Curunen.8729]

> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> Whenever I'm out of illusions I use Axe 2, but in doing so I dodge while casting it (another example of how Mirage Cloak benefits!)

 

My problem with this is it's an expensive evade and makes a very small window to benefit from the ambush after axe 2 ends. It would be fine if we had a way to regain more endurance (beyond vigour) - say if axe 2 returned 10 endurance per hit (potential 30 endurance regain untraited).

 

I don't mind if axe attacks return endurance, axe 2 gets a built in evade or axe attacks can drop mirage mirrors... any of those would work for me, it just needs a little more evade uptime in whatever form.

[Esplen.3940]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> Axe 2 is definitely sluggish, but I found Axe3 to be even more so? I find that sometimes I'll be waiting for a solid 1/2 second before it even starts, and yes, I have been interrupted while casting it before, even though its supposed to have an evade frame. Because of that I honestly forgot it had one.

 

The evade is during the "leap".

[Mikkel.8427]

I've stopped trying to use Axe. If you're not wearing full trailblazer, its just a liability.

 

Auto-Attck is fine.

 

Axe 2-

In PvE it produces a clone, making it useless when it matters most.

 

In PvP and WvW it screams "STUN ME NOOOOOOOOOOOW" as you go through that slow motion whirl, usually forcing you to burn dodges to cover its cast rather than ambush. Then it also has the opposite problem of often not producing a clone (mainly WvW) because fights with real people are mobile.

 

I'd love the clone removed, and an evade added to this.

 

Axe 3-

Has an evade, so i instinctively want to use it defensively, but the random teleport is often more dangerous for you than it is for your opponent. I also often want to use it to engage as a gap closer, but I usually don't have clones on engage...

 

I'd love a clone added to axe 3 instead. So now you always have at least one clone up, so the target drop actually does its job. Then remove the evade... the target drop is the defensive aspect of this skill.

 

 

 

[bart.3687]

After running around with axe for a little more time, I feel it could use some range on its auto. It is 130 currently. I'd boost it to 200-250 so that it would effectively cleave through the opponents standing in a cone in front of you (I'm talking about part 1 and 2 of the auto only, as part 3 is aoe around you so it should stay the way it is right now i think).

[OriOri.8724]

@"bart.3687" I like the idea of adding some more range to axe auto instead of just straight up buffing its damage. It lets you use the cleave better, along with letting you be just a bit farther out, which also helps some with not facetanking hits.

 

@"Mikkel.8427" I say leave the clone on Axe 2, but just tie the summoning of the clone to the skill landing. As it is, in competitive environments it has a big tell, enough to dodge/block/interrupt, so this would still be balanced since they could just avoid being hit to avoid the clone summon. Though I think Axe 3 could be adjusted to summon an axe clone iff you don't have 3 clones up. This way, you are almost guaranteed at least 1 clone for the attack, since it only affects axe clones with the teleport thing

[OriOri.8724]

Also, as I got some more playtime in, I am starting to get better with Axe. I still don't have very much playtime in on the expansion period, but I can definitely see now that most of these issues were, as I somewhat suspected, just my unfamiliarity with the weapon and the utility skills.

 

There are definitely a few quirks on axe that I still don't like a whole lot. But I'll give it more time to see if its on my end or if Axe does need some small adjustments to it. And when I say small, I mean it. This would be stuff like increasing the range on the auto to 180 or 200 units, finding a way to improve the sluggish feel of Axe 2 and/or 3, and maybe adding some endurance regen to axe skills via a trait.

[Esplen.3940]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> Also, as I got some more playtime in, I am starting to get better with Axe. I still don't have very much playtime in on the expansion period, but I can definitely see now that most of these issues were, as I somewhat suspected, just my unfamiliarity with the weapon and the utility skills.

>

> There are definitely a few quirks on axe that I still don't like a whole lot. But I'll give it more time to see if its on my end or if Axe does need some small adjustments to it. And when I say small, I mean it. This would be stuff like increasing the range on the auto to 180 or 200 units, finding a way to improve the sluggish feel of Axe 2 and/or 3, and maybe adding some endurance regen to axe skills via a trait.

 

I mean, I sort of echo your opinion, but it still has a few flaws.

 

Axe2 is a really powerful skill because of the cleave potential it brings, paired with traited auto attacks and you're capable of applying pressure to 3-4 enemies instead of the standard 1 enemy focus.

 

Axe3 evade can be really useful because yes it puts you in danger, but also evades it. Occasionally you (or a clone) get awkward porting, such as vertically, and your clones will port from a larger distance than you can. Being able to cast this from out of range makes it invaluable for saving Phantasms.

 

However, the clone on Axe2 really makes it weak, and the whirl is extremely powerful (except we don't get any fields with Mirage, so you have to run Null Field or Feedback).

 

Honestly, what I think would make this weapon great for PvE would be:

Move evade from Axe3 to Axe2.

Move clone generation from Axe2 to Axe3 (additionally, remove the "mirage" portion of clone gen and give it scepter auto treatment).

Optional: Move charges from Axe2 to Axe3.

 

Not having an evade on Axe3 is actually decent because it breaks targeting and covering it with a dodge isn't as hefty as covering your 2 axe2's. Additionally, since you can cast Axe3 out of range, you can not end up next to your opponent (it places you 600 around yourself, not towards your target, if you're out of range) so you don't always have to cover it with a dodge. Moving the clone spawn onto Axe3 makes it always have 2 Mirages leaping (unless you have 3 Illusions and are using it as a retarget).

 

This doesn't address the whirl issue, but it would help.

 

There are also a few issues with Axe that are bugs (afaik):

Clone Axe Ambushes do not gain the bonus Axe from Mirrored Axes. This makes you easy to spot (if you run IH you shouldn't run MA or you reveal sooner).

Axe Ambush will not always come out and may interrupt itself. Honestly, this one I'm not able to reproduce 100% but it happens very, very often. It usually happens if I'm out of range and dodge then press 1 (usually 2-3 axes will still hit if I'm out of range) or if I use Illusionary Ambush (most ambushes won't come out instantly if you use IA due to facing/range issues, but Axe can also interrupt itself).

[OriOri.8724]

Axe 3 only retargets axe clones, not all illusions. How in the world is it supposed to save your phantasms?

 

I think axe 3 should have the conditional clone generation, but axe 2 should still have a guaranteed clone come out of it.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> Axe 3 only retargets axe clones, not all illusions. How in the world is it supposed to save your phantasms?

>

> I think axe 3 should have the conditional clone generation, but axe 2 should still have a guaranteed clone come out of it.

 

I'm like 90% sure we went over this before, but axe 3 and illusionary ambush both retarget illusions. Read the skills carefully.