The Sand Savantless Thread!

[Coffietire.2783]

I'm seeing a lot of posts about issues playing with shadesss without sand savant in both pvp and pve. While I can totally understand the issues in pvp, I find that it's quite managable in PvE with a little quick thinking. Now given, I have only played the first two new maps, but here is some things I've picked up on while playing with 3 shadesss.

* Don't use them the same way you'd use marks. These things take time to get deploying, so don't try to chase the enemies' placements by trying to place a shade right on top of them. Instead, try to anticipate the enemies' movements and try to construct a path with 1 or 2 shades.

* Try to create paths and/or surround the enemies with shadesss. Despite the duration nerf, 20 seconds per shade is still enough time to formulate a web of torment that large groups of enemies will have trouble escaping from.

* Don't be afraid to use multiple shadesss on a single strong enemy. Even though only one will be doing effective damage, placing multiple shadesss around the enemy significantly increases the chance of every strike from Sand Shroud landing.

* One particularly nasty combo I like to do is to have one shade on the enemy and one behind it. Then I use garish pillar followed by sand shroud so they are feared while trapped in a damage spike. It takes a lot of life force to use, so make sure you have a utility skill that grants life force, but it is worth it.

* Outside of the combo I just mentioned, you should try to reserve garish pillar for interrupting nasty attacks and breaking break bars. Even with the damage on fear trait, sand shroud should still be your go to for damage.

* Shadesss are as much about constructing a wide and dangerous field as it is about condi bombing. Don't spam them, but also don't be stingy with them.

* This all might seem a bit too much thinking in such a fast paced game, but remember that you yourself are a mobile controllable shade at all times. This makes planning your shade placements much easier and flexible. When your shade placements don't work as planned, you step in.

 

That's just a few things I picked up on while juggling 3 shades on the battle field. Please share any tips, strategies, or cool battle moments you've experienced while playing the scourge without sand savant.

[KrHome.1920]

in PvE (!) I even played without any s.h.a.d.es. at all, because the are way to fiddly to my taste. I just traited sand savant for the extended radius (300) and target increase (5) for the F-skill effects around my character and ran around as a walking aoe bomb. Worked like a charm and was quite enjoyable.

 

If you like ridiculous (but rewarding in terms of DPS) micromanagement, then the sand savant 'less mechanic gives you an option.

[Tobias.8632]

What kind of universe do you live in where you ever need to do more then roll your face across the keyboard in pve?

 

>walk up to enemy

>mash manifest

>mash desert shroud / torch 4 / epi

>mash /dance

 

Don't ever pick sand savant you're sacrificing one of the best damage traits in the game for no reason dummy

 

> @Coffietire.2783 said:

>but remember that you yourself are a mobile controllable shade at all times

 

No you aren't. The abilities that come from your character do not inflict damage or dhuumfire the way that your sand cats do

[Maunzi.3764]

I want a sand kitten skin now. I'd pay 1k gems for it immediately. Bonus if they get mew sound effects.

 

My user name is my language's version of mewing.

[Esquilax.3491]

The trait that applies burning on torment and increases torment damage has to be flat out better in any dps scenario...? I'm getting like 30+ stacks of torment sometimes in PvE and the burning is icing on the cake. Yeah Savant provides larger area control but I can't see that mattering outside of wvw pvp or niche pve scenarios.

[Uberkafros.5431]

My main problem is that manifesting a Shade takes too long. The cast time feels atrocious for something that doesn't do any damage alone.

[Zoltreez.6435]

> @Uberkafros.5431 said:

> My main problem is that manifesting a Shade takes too long. The cast time feels atrocious for something that doesn't do any damage alone.

 

that half a second CD on summon shade is god damn annoying.......................

 

your 1st shade will be 100% avoided thats for sure so you put down a 2nd one and use like 2 abilities by that time your allready sitting at like 20% hp againts a half decent player......

[KrHome.1920]

> @Tobias.8632 said:

> Don't ever pick sand savant you're sacrificing one of the best damage traits in the game for no reason dummy

No one needs Demonic Lore on a power build and I am power necro for life!

 

When you finished casting your three shades I already bursted these trashmobs into the ground with a decent F2345 faceroll.

 

It all depends on what you want to achieve...

 

[Svarty.8019]

> @KrHome.1920 said:

> in PvE (!) I even played without any s.h.a.d.es. at all, because the are way to fiddly to my taste.

 

Congratulations in avoiding the [C word](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/clunky "C word") ;)

 

One **Thumbs Up** for you.

 

 

[Bash.7291]

> @Tobias.8632 said:

 

> No you aren't. The abilities that come from your character do not inflict damage or dhuumfire the way that your sand cats do

 

Um no. It works just as if you are a shade yourself, and everything procs as normal including dhuumfire.... this is something that is EASILY testable, so please verify before putting out false info.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @Bash.7291 said:

> > @Tobias.8632 said:

>

> > No you aren't. The abilities that come from your character do not inflict damage or dhuumfire the way that your sand cats do

>

> Um no. It works just as if you are a shade yourself, and everything procs as normal including dhuumfire.... this is something that is EASILY testable, so please verify before putting out false info.

 

F5 from yourself doesnt rpoc dhuumfire but it does for your shades,

[Bash.7291]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > @Bash.7291 said:

> > > @Tobias.8632 said:

> >

> > > No you aren't. The abilities that come from your character do not inflict damage or dhuumfire the way that your sand cats do

> >

> > Um no. It works just as if you are a shade yourself, and everything procs as normal including dhuumfire.... this is something that is EASILY testable, so please verify before putting out false info.

>

> F5 from yourself doesnt rpoc dhuumfire but it does for your shades,

 

It actually does, but only on activation, I stand partially corrected. Either way, the other shade skills behave correctly, so if anything this is a bug.

[Coffietire.2783]

> @Bash.7291 said:

> > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > @Bash.7291 said:

> > > > @Tobias.8632 said:

> > >

> > > > No you aren't. The abilities that come from your character do not inflict damage or dhuumfire the way that your sand cats do

> > >

> > > Um no. It works just as if you are a shade yourself, and everything procs as normal including dhuumfire.... this is something that is EASILY testable, so please verify before putting out false info.

> >

> > F5 from yourself doesnt rpoc dhuumfire but it does for your shades,

>

> It actually does, but only on activation, I stand partially corrected. Either way, the other shade skills behave correctly, so if anything this is a bug.

 

I haven't looked too much into it, but unless they're not hitting as much as I think, I think that is also how your shadesss behave too.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @Bash.7291 said:

> > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > @Bash.7291 said:

> > > > @Tobias.8632 said:

> > >

> > > > No you aren't. The abilities that come from your character do not inflict damage or dhuumfire the way that your sand cats do

> > >

> > > Um no. It works just as if you are a shade yourself, and everything procs as normal including dhuumfire.... this is something that is EASILY testable, so please verify before putting out false info.

> >

> > F5 from yourself doesnt rpoc dhuumfire but it does for your shades,

>

> It actually does, but only on activation, I stand partially corrected. Either way, the other shade skills behave correctly, so if anything this is a bug.

 

It does on activation because you are using a shade skill and you cast manifest sand shades attack around yourself before the pulses.

The first pulse of DS and MSS hit at the same time then 1 pulse a second.

[Bash.7291]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > @Bash.7291 said:

> > > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > > @Bash.7291 said:

> > > > > @Tobias.8632 said:

> > > >

> > > > > No you aren't. The abilities that come from your character do not inflict damage or dhuumfire the way that your sand cats do

> > > >

> > > > Um no. It works just as if you are a shade yourself, and everything procs as normal including dhuumfire.... this is something that is EASILY testable, so please verify before putting out false info.

> > >

> > > F5 from yourself doesnt rpoc dhuumfire but it does for your shades,

> >

> > It actually does, but only on activation, I stand partially corrected. Either way, the other shade skills behave correctly, so if anything this is a bug.

>

> It does on activation because you are using a shade skill and you cast manifest sand shades attack around yourself before the pulses.

> The first pulse of DS and MSS hit at the same time then 1 pulse a second.

 

Ok, so you said the exact same thing i said, it happens on activation. Which yes, would be because it procs the F1 attack on activation.

 

However DS itself is actually EXTREMELY bugged after running tests on this. So, When casting based off yourself, it procs the MSS for 1 dhuumfire proc, and then pulses per normal. HOWEVER on the shade itself, each pulse seems to cause a Manifest shade proc which causes burning, cripple, and torment, BUT DOES NOT inflict the torment from the DS skill AT ALL. This is noticeable by the torment stacks, It only ever stacks up to two, which makes sense because at base MSS is 1 stack of torment for 2s, meaning you can have two stacks active. However when its casting on yourself, its 2 stacks for 2s meaning 4 stacks which matches.

 

Even further screwiness, in the combat log, it shows as desert shroud doing the damage from the shade, but has the effect of it doing MSS procs instead?

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @Bash.7291 said:

> > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > @Bash.7291 said:

> > > > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > > > @Bash.7291 said:

> > > > > > @Tobias.8632 said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > No you aren't. The abilities that come from your character do not inflict damage or dhuumfire the way that your sand cats do

> > > > >

> > > > > Um no. It works just as if you are a shade yourself, and everything procs as normal including dhuumfire.... this is something that is EASILY testable, so please verify before putting out false info.

> > > >

> > > > F5 from yourself doesnt rpoc dhuumfire but it does for your shades,

> > >

> > > It actually does, but only on activation, I stand partially corrected. Either way, the other shade skills behave correctly, so if anything this is a bug.

> >

> > It does on activation because you are using a shade skill and you cast manifest sand shades attack around yourself before the pulses.

> > The first pulse of DS and MSS hit at the same time then 1 pulse a second.

>

> Ok, so you said the exact same thing i said, it happens on activation. Which yes, would be because it procs the F1 attack on activation.

>

> However DS itself is actually EXTREMELY bugged after running tests on this. So, When casting based off yourself, it procs the MSS for 1 dhuumfire proc, and then pulses per normal. HOWEVER on the shade itself, each pulse seems to cause a Manifest shade proc which causes burning, cripple, and torment, BUT DOES NOT inflict the torment from the DS skill AT ALL. This is noticeable by the torment stacks, It only ever stacks up to two, which makes sense because at base MSS is 1 stack of torment for 2s, meaning you can have two stacks active. However when its casting on yourself, its 2 stacks for 2s meaning 4 stacks which matches.

>

> Even further screwiness, in the combat log, it shows as desert shroud doing the damage from the shade, but has the effect of it doing MSS procs instead?

 

It was the same in the beta. They just changed it to combat log as DS instead of MSS.

* First thing is first, Dhuumfire appears to have some sort of weird ICD that prevents it triggering when you cast 2 shade abilities at the same time.

* The other F skills probably have some hidden ICD like Demonic Lore to prevent the target being effected by multiple instances of the extra effect.

* Likelihood is something bizarre like when you use F5 you are casting a skill called desert shroud, a modified version of F1 so they don't overlap, every second. Because you are casting a shade skill your shades constantly cast MSS proc that has had its name changed in combat log not to look silly hence all the shade skill benefits.

* This is why they overlap most likely and you get 2+(X*Shades) worth of torment per pulse because the hit from F1 has no ICD nor overlap.