Rishal.8170 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Do people actually buy unlimited gathering tools expecting anything but convenience? If you're worried about gold, why not turn the 2700 gems into 520 gold and be done with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"aandiarie.7195" said: > > > For 6 maps in a row anet made it look like unbound magic was going to be a big important thing. I bought the unbound magic gathering tools ( which were spendy ) Anet now made volatile magic the big important thing. If I'd have know they were going to not keep with the unbound magic I'd have held off and bought the volatile magic tools. ALSO now that they've added those things that can give you cloth, leather, or wood. Some of the tools I bought have something like that on it, but certain tools had nothing extra about them. Example I bought a watchwork gathering tool ( gives off sprockets sometimes), but the molten one gives off nothing. I wondered if maybe anet can make it so something is attached to the ones in the gem store. Sort of a waste to not have anything on the tool if you buy it from the gem store. > > > > I don't get that complaint ... almost all of the stat prefixes are available in trinkets that are bought with unbound magic ... it's not a big thing ... it's a HUGE thing. > > > > Also, it's your choice to buy tools from the GS ... if they don't have 'things' on them, don't buy them. Clearly you already some form of equipment that is useful. > > I kind of anticipated that, since the map currencies from older maps did not continue to be valuable. (I confess, the existence of an overall LS currency, not just per-episode currencies, was the biggest surprise to me.) > > Anyway, they are not worthless now, as you can still transform volatile magic into gold, by way of the resource bundles. (Ember Bay for best value.) > > That said ... @"aandiarie.7195", I cannot say this strongly enough: If you are unhappy because the unbound magic tools became less valuable after LS3 finished, **DO NOT BUY VOLATILE MAGIC TOOLS**. **DON'T DO IT.** **YOU WILL BE SAD AGAIN!!!!!** > > Seriously, the reasonable expectation at this point is that Volatile Magic will be, like Unbound Magic, something that only exists during LS4, and there will be a new equivalent in LS5. If you invest in the tools now, and were disappointed by the LS3 UBM specific tools, you will be even more disappointed when VM stops having the same value with xpac 3 and LS5. I think another important point is ... did the person that used those tools for the years they owned them get value from them? It would be hard for them to argue they didn't ... and even harder to argue they still can't. > @"Rishal.8170" said: > Do people actually buy unlimited gathering tools expecting anything but convenience? > > If you're worried about gold, why not turn the 2700 gems into 520 gold and be done with it? People are quick to forget that what's latest and greatest doesn't remove the value of the tool that they own. I think what we have here is either a case of buyer's remorse or ... something more individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud.5067 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > And when season 5 get released you would feel the same about your volatile magic gathering tools becouse then the next for example unstable magic would be the new tools they release. But... its not like it has to be this way. Unbound magic could be the De Facto resource - buy the tool, enjoy! ArenaNet have chosen to create artificial redundancy by introducing Volatile magic - and will continue to do so if/when they introduce the next 'whatever' magic. Let's be clear here - this is a marketing decision, not a game design one. Personally, I'm annoyed when I hear of physical products and redundancy being incorporated within their design. And yes, I think more folks should be aware - and annoyed - that Anet are incorporating redundancy within their digital goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 The glyphs will eventually become available in black lion chests and thusly ending up on tp. And eh, it makes sense to me, specific gathering tools for each living story season. I think you folks are overreacting. unbound magic is not worthless. You can still buy magic warped packets or obsidian with it. The packets having good chance for ascended mats. And UM + ls3 currencies to buy viper trinkets Outside the gold potential from shipments in volatile magic, i do not really see much useful stuff in the currency. Quite lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud.5067 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > The glyphs will eventually become available in black lion chests and thusly ending up on tp. > And eh, it makes sense to me, specific gathering tools for each living story season. > > I think you folks are overreacting. unbound magic is not worthless. You can still buy magic warped packets or obsidian with it. The packets having good chance for ascended mats. And UM + ls3 currencies to buy viper trinkets > > Outside the gold potential from shipments in volatile magic, i do not really see much useful stuff in the currency. Quite lacking. I hear you - it is what is is. And it could be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Scud.5067" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > And when season 5 get released you would feel the same about your volatile magic gathering tools becouse then the next for example unstable magic would be the new tools they release. > > But... its not like it has to be this way. Unbound magic could be the De Facto resource - buy the tool, enjoy! > > ArenaNet have chosen to create artificial redundancy by introducing Volatile magic - and will continue to do so if/when they introduce the next 'whatever' magic. > > Let's be clear here - this is a marketing decision, not a game design one. > > Personally, I'm annoyed when I hear of physical products and redundancy being incorporated within their design. > > And yes, I think more folks should be aware - and annoyed - that Anet are incorporating redundancy within their digital goods. I think you're forgetting to take into account the fact that unbound magic is a HoT/LS3 currency, while volatile is for POF/LS4. It's important for players (as well as ANet's bottom line) for there to be distinctions between the different maps and what you can earn in each. These might or might not be the sorts of differences everyone would prefer, but I haven't seen anyone suggesting alternatives that would meet the same goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Regarding prices: A few weeks ago, when unbound magic glyphs were dropping from BL chests, the TP price for them was 105-150g (instant-buy; less on buy offer). That compares to 250-300 gold (to convert to gems) for any infinite tool and 650-810 gold to buy a full unbound or volatile set. Even today, the unbound glyph can still be bought outright for 260 gold. It's up to player to decide if they'd rather get the glyph, an infinite tool, **and** a skin _or_ spend about the same for just a glyph _or_ try to get a bargain whenever it comes up in the BL chest rotation (as we can be reasonably sure it will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr.5382 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > I think you're forgetting to take into account the fact that unbound magic is a HoT/LS3 currency, while volatile is for POF/LS4. It's important for players (as well as ANet's bottom line) for their to be distinctions between the different maps and what you can earn in each. > Good point. It would’ve been terrible for LS4 map longevity (what little there is) if players could have instantly purchased a lot of the new items with their unbound magic reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"aandiarie.7195" said: > > > > For 6 maps in a row anet made it look like unbound magic was going to be a big important thing. I bought the unbound magic gathering tools ( which were spendy ) Anet now made volatile magic the big important thing. If I'd have know they were going to not keep with the unbound magic I'd have held off and bought the volatile magic tools. ALSO now that they've added those things that can give you cloth, leather, or wood. Some of the tools I bought have something like that on it, but certain tools had nothing extra about them. Example I bought a watchwork gathering tool ( gives off sprockets sometimes), but the molten one gives off nothing. I wondered if maybe anet can make it so something is attached to the ones in the gem store. Sort of a waste to not have anything on the tool if you buy it from the gem store. > > > > > > I don't get that complaint ... almost all of the stat prefixes are available in trinkets that are bought with unbound magic ... it's not a big thing ... it's a HUGE thing. > > > > > > Also, it's your choice to buy tools from the GS ... if they don't have 'things' on them, don't buy them. Clearly you already some form of equipment that is useful. > > > > I kind of anticipated that, since the map currencies from older maps did not continue to be valuable. (I confess, the existence of an overall LS currency, not just per-episode currencies, was the biggest surprise to me.) > > > > Anyway, they are not worthless now, as you can still transform volatile magic into gold, by way of the resource bundles. (Ember Bay for best value.) > > > > That said ... @"aandiarie.7195", I cannot say this strongly enough: If you are unhappy because the unbound magic tools became less valuable after LS3 finished, **DO NOT BUY VOLATILE MAGIC TOOLS**. **DON'T DO IT.** **YOU WILL BE SAD AGAIN!!!!!** > > > > Seriously, the reasonable expectation at this point is that Volatile Magic will be, like Unbound Magic, something that only exists during LS4, and there will be a new equivalent in LS5. If you invest in the tools now, and were disappointed by the LS3 UBM specific tools, you will be even more disappointed when VM stops having the same value with xpac 3 and LS5. > > I think another important point is ... did the person that used those tools for the years they owned them get value from them? It would be hard for them to argue they didn't ... and even harder to argue they still can't. Oh, heck, yeah. This is like the whiny "why can't I get a refund now that, seven years later, the core game is free! I want my core game cost back", because having access seven years earlier has absolutely no value. ;) People are super-bad at the whole thing where there is a value to having it now, and that is reflected in a higher cost now. > > @"Rishal.8170" said: > > Do people actually buy unlimited gathering tools expecting anything but convenience? > > > > If you're worried about gold, why not turn the 2700 gems into 520 gold and be done with it? > > People are quick to forget that what's latest and greatest doesn't remove the value of the tool that they own. I think what we have here is either a case of buyer's remorse or ... something more individual. haha, but seriously, @"Rishal.8170" is probably right, the 520 gold from gems is probably going to take quite some time to earn back with the new tools. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandiarie.7195 Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 I don't want a tool refund lol. I just thought that unbound magic was going to be a big big thing when the tools came out and that it'd be a currency to use for our maps. When volatile magic came out I was very sad. :( Someone's idea on here to turn them into glyphs is genuis. I know now for next time not to get those tools from the gem store. :/ I just want a way to convert unbound magic to volatile magic OR for them to turn the tools into glyphs we can put on our other tools or something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 You _can_ convert your unbound magic tools into versions with glyphs. Bring them to the exchange specialist. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Exchange_Specialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Trinkets you can buy with UM have more value than VM ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Scud.5067" said: > ArenaNet have chosen to create artificial redundancy by introducing Volatile magic - and will continue to do so if/when they introduce the next 'whatever' magic. > > Let's be clear here - this is a marketing decision, not a game design one. It' **definitely** a game design decision, the same design decision as having separate currencies in DT, SW, HoT maps, PoF. It's to regulate which maps are interrelated rewards-wise. It means that I can to a degree farm LS4 maps to get rewards day 1 of a new LS4 map, but I can *not* farm VB, or Southsun, or Vabbi, or BFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said: > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > ArenaNet have chosen to create artificial redundancy by introducing Volatile magic - and will continue to do so if/when they introduce the next 'whatever' magic. > > > > Let's be clear here - this is a marketing decision, not a game design one. > > It' **definitely** a game design decision, the same design decision as having separate currencies in DT, SW, HoT maps, PoF. It's to regulate which maps are interrelated rewards-wise. It means that I can to a degree farm LS4 maps to get rewards day 1 of a new LS4 map, but I can *not* farm VB, or Southsun, or Vabbi, or BFF. Exactly, it's most definitely a game design decision, it's the reason we're not still just working on Karma and Gold as the only two currencies; they want the rewards to be for the content in order to get people to play the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Basically they do not want to make bitterfrost frontier the most effective way of farming currency for all future living story episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlinvf.1358 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Scud.5067" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > And when season 5 get released you would feel the same about your volatile magic gathering tools becouse then the next for example unstable magic would be the new tools they release. > > But... its not like it has to be this way. Unbound magic could be the De Facto resource - buy the tool, enjoy! > > ArenaNet have chosen to create artificial redundancy by introducing Volatile magic - and will continue to do so if/when they introduce the next 'whatever' magic. > > Let's be clear here - this is a marketing decision, not a game design one. > > Personally, I'm annoyed when I hear of physical products and redundancy being incorporated within their design. > > And yes, I think more folks should be aware - and annoyed - that Anet are incorporating redundancy within their digital goods. The problem is, always has, and always will be, one of Player incentive. And reason it always becomes a problem, is because players are excessively greedy.... greedy to the point where something else is even slightly better, everything else becomes retroactively terrible, and thus demand compensation for not being even more optimal then it previously was. Which is juxtaposed by constant complaints when something new isn't objectively better, thus triggering the above cycle of stupidity. Which is why I love the "the market will handle it" rhetoric parts of this community displays, because when the Market does "handle it" these are the very complaints that come up. Most MMOs would just accrete everything prior, rending it nigh worthless in practice. But with GW2 trying to maintain relevance of the TP to control out of control gold inflation, everything always ends up boiling down to the costs of Mats, and their week to week value in crafting projects. The game needs time sinks, so instead what they do is accrete currencies..... otherwise every expansion, the surplus of currency would overwhelm a volume based gate mechanism, either demanding an insanely high cost in currency (which only newer players, and does nothing against established players), or bottle neck it on something else (like the tokens). Limiting the Currency to a specific content block keeps those maps relevant, so long as we have a demand for a reward that exists there. If this wasn't true, we wouldn't be having this conversation either. Now compare this system to Karma (which is universal) and compare the Karma cost of rewards through the various content blocks of the game. Multiple attempts to sink it via ever more expensive "one time" rewards or collections, only to have the surplus replenish in the off season with nothing to spend it on. How many here are sitting on at least 3 million Karma? How many had attempted to drain theirs in various schemes to convert to gold, only to give up and do a regular farm instead? How often is Karma a Bottleneck? Prior to LS3, there were very few items worth spending significant amounts of Karma on, especially with much of the collections tapping into Core Tyria where Karma costs are pretty low, but have poor conversion rates. Compare that to every Currency starting with LS3 onward into POF and now..... you have more opportunity to convert them to gold, but it comes with an opportunity cost in Coin or Karma to set a value floor for the materials it outputs. With the volume of farming going on in Istan, we're pretty damn close to that floor..... and it would had gone even lower (back to Pre-Ascended values) as people systemtically flooded the most valuable materials in sequence. A new currency type stalls this process for about a month or two, hopefully long enough for the other sinks to get rid of the surplus in the market, and get some gold movement in the opposite direction. But since a farm can destroy the long term viability of a one-sink, we're gonna need another round of "insane material sink" for the next expansion to run in tandem with an overly bottlenecked exclusive material. Or they could give up and just accrete the whole market, and limit all content block rewards to majority items that belong to that specific block (like they've been doing with Trinkets, except on a system wide scale). I honestly can't tell what would be the better system; all I know is the current system would be very acceptable if demand wasn't only occurring in short, massive bursts. If you like crafting, off season is the best time to do it..... but you'd need to start with a large pool of gold, since the exchange value of items is so even, its nearly always a loss. Not to mention the only items that tend to retain value are also ones you'd need in the crafting project to begin with. So selling those can set you back in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maikimaik.1974 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Unbound magic shipments are still a very good source of materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadshow.9320 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 You should have waited for the next currency gathering tool really. They should be tradeable so you can at least them to beer players that need the old currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > Not really. Unbound magic is useful for trinkets, but the other sinks for unbound magic are quite meh. Oh? You find Obsidian Shards for legendary crafting and those Rare Material packs "meh"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I’m just disappointed I can’t gather three times in a single pulse with the VM sickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > I’m just disappointed I can’t gather three times in a single pulse with the VM sickle. Pull out the volatile glyphs and stuff them into the Unbound tools. thats what I did. The Volatile tools is -hideously- eyesearing. Or simply reskin them to the Unbound set for the better abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > Pull out the volatile glyphs and stuff them into the Unbound tools. ...or simply change the VM's tool's skin to the UM's one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 ##### More data u/Lonezolf has posted details on their results of testing the new VM tools ([thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8w1qr4/science_infinite_volatile_magic_tools_and_their/)) * Pick & Axe yield 1-3 VM _per swing_, ~6 VM per node * Sickle yields 3-8 VM _per swing_, ~5.5 VM per node * 1 VM is worth 24 copper (converted to trophy or leather, per [LunchBox](http://gw2lunchbox.com/IstanShipments.html)), which is quadruple the value of 1 UM ([per Lonezolf](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fd81CiRUt0h-l3H5DFyFKn79nWd6ZiKN7mOXCu0L0fc/edit#gid=1832714591)) * It takes ~52k nodes to break even, i.e. 142 nodes per day for a year. Assuming a gold cost of 750 gems per VM set (@110-112g/400 gems). (Also assume no changes to the markets, which is historically inaccurate: sometimes prices rise, sometimes they fall.) * 142 nodes per day sounds like a lot (spoiler alert: it is a lot). However, it's also "just" 5 Winterberry farms per day or 20 alts at the VB flax farm. tl;dr the new tools are money-savers for heavy farmers, money-makers for no-lifer farmers, and less-expensive-than-we-think convenience items for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > Basically they do not want to make bitterfrost frontier the most effective way of farming currency for all future living story episodes. What, you mean they don't want to let the wildly unbalanced rewards there determine design of every future thing? Literally unplayable! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > Not really. Unbound magic is useful for trinkets, but the other sinks for unbound magic are quite meh. > > Oh? You find Obsidian Shards for legendary crafting and those Rare Material packs "meh"?? Legendary crafting is quite a long process, so you'll aquire sufficient amounts of karma to use at Balthys temple or other merchants. > Meh. As already stated by people like Illconceived, VM is vastly more valuable for materials than UM, which results UM being > Meh. Sorry, but at least for me, the main-use for UM will always be trinkets, since the rest isn't really worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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