GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Kagehi.2108]

I don't know the full story about both former employees besides form story writer Jessica Price.

I just returned to the game few weeks ago and noticed there was a lot of chatter about this general chat that is why decided to investigate.

Form what I'm now reading on mmo-champion and what my friend told me.

Not a fan of TotalBiscuit and didn't really watched video's before his passing the remarks she made and lot of other people form the gaming industry that was disturbing.

And afterwards she attacks a Guild wars 2 streamer for some critique and rants about SJW none sense and excuse her self as a victim.

She had it coming and ArenaNet did the right thing for letting her go and i hope she realize her mistakes and she apologizes for her behavior.

 

 

 

 

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"Asudementio.8526" said:

> > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

>

> > Claims about an alt-right mob are even more ludicrous, if people had even done their homework. Before MO made his announcement, there was very little alt-right trolling, mob mentality or baying going on. It may have increased after his announcement, but it's typical alt-right behavior to spot a situation they can benefit from and jump in and make claims about it, or even appropriate it. Lumping all reasonable and well thought out responses taking a stand against JP's behavior together with the baying trolls is doing a disservice, it's dumb and incredibly transparent. By putting the emphasis on that you're giving them more power than they have. They're trying to incite the mob mentality where there is none and to a certain extent their tactic has worked.

> > Edit: grammar

>

> Your telling of the situation is revisionist.

>

> Within hours of the tweets happening they were already circulating in alt-right communities and their members were already trolling and posting in the 3rd party GW2 forums. There are a number of their posts that were highly magnified and pushed to the top by the the GW2 community. This is very telling of the state of our game's community and i wouldn't be surprised if we notice the toxic elements of the community becoming more and more vocal. MO decided to stand with all the gators so look forward to how that changes our interactions in game for times to come.

 

It is not revisionist, it's observational. I was here during those hours before MO made his announcement. I saw the many comments and particularly noted to myself that I was surprised a lot of people weren't mixing up their facts and sounding like a mindless mob. Most comments were well thought out, not nearly all of them asked for the firing of the dev, and most weren't criticizing her beliefs but her behavior (which is the actual problem here, not any kind of ideology).

 

This is not telling of our community. If we were truly infested with so many alt-right trolls we would be able to find many complaints about a "lesbian agenda being pushed" because of Marjory and Kasmeer's relationship. Or complaints about the transgender characters in the game. Complaints about the refugee problem. Many more things that are in the game that the alt-right wouldn't tolerate. No, I saw the minority of trolls that were here before MO's announcement, and how they've increased in number now that they have a "win" to celebrate. But it's not their win. This is about decency and professionalism, not feminism or sexism. And no amount of alt-right trolls will convince me that this community I've been a part of for a decade has suddenly become infested with them. I'm not that easily swayed.

[seinka.4823]

> @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > @"seinka.4823" said:

> > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > > > @"seinka.4823" said:

> > > > > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > > > > So you should be afraid of being a terrible human being? This dev was doing it since her previous job at her last company, that resulted in her being let go. This is a patented history of being a terrible human being. Why should anybody at anet feel afraid?

> > > >

> > > > There is so much wrong with this statement I don't know where to begin...

> > > Ahhhh no. I'm not going to let you get away with just that. You better start.

> >

> > Read the rest of the post. ;)

>

> What you posted doesn't match up with this situation, nor does it match up with reasonable.

 

Different people see this event differently than you or me. It is very reasonable to assume, they might be afraid to say anything on social media, without them being _terrible human beings_. Saying, that they shouldn't be afraid if they are not _terrible human beings_ is the unreasonable thing here.

_(I don't know how else to explain it without repeating what I've already said, so I apologise, I'll end it here, unless you add someting that will move the conversation further.)_

[Loli Ruri.8307]

> @"Asudementio.8526" said:

> > @"muffi.3964" said:

> > > @"Asudementio.8526" said:

> > > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > >

> > > > Claims about an alt-right mob are even more ludicrous, if people had even done their homework. Before MO made his announcement, there was very little alt-right trolling, mob mentality or baying going on. It may have increased after his announcement, but it's typical alt-right behavior to spot a situation they can benefit from and jump in and make claims about it, or even appropriate it. Lumping all reasonable and well thought out responses taking a stand against JP's behavior together with the baying trolls is doing a disservice, it's dumb and incredibly transparent. By putting the emphasis on that you're giving them more power than they have. They're trying to incite the mob mentality where there is none and to a certain extent their tactic has worked.

> > > > Edit: grammar

> > >

> > > Your telling of the situation is revisionist.

> > >

> > > Within hours of the tweets happening they were already circulating in alt-right communities and their members were already trolling and posting in the 3rd party GW2 forums. There are a number of their posts that were highly magnified and pushed to the top by the the GW2 community. This is very telling of the state of our game's community and i wouldn't be surprised if we notice the toxic elements of the community becoming more and more vocal. MO decided to stand with all the gators so look forward to how that changes our interactions in game for times to come.

> >

> > It's because to ppl like you every community is altright that's not drinking the feminist cool-aid. heck some ppl here called goobergate altright.

>

> This is just a dishonest attack on my character. Some of us like to be factually correct and that involves identifying GG for what it was. I'm sorry if i've bothered you by pointing this out.

Gamer gate happened when people tried to paint their political adversaries as being "insert shaming language" while at the same time, as revealed in leaked emails, creating the very content that they were complaining about from said community of people who were disgusted with the gaming journalist industry. The actual people who were complaining about gaming journalism actually wanted to change it in a positive direction. But it's much easier to shut down a conversation, than actually debate it. But as I have mentioned before, the gaming journalist industry died, and they deserved it. YouTube and Twitch is where gaming is at now.

[Vieux P.1238]

WoW, good thing Anet did what they did so quickly or they would have felt the burn.

This story has spread out far beyound the Gw2 social media.

It's spread out even to unrelated youtube channel's & everybody is talking about it.

I feel a long term vacation in the future of this girl.

 

[Aoi Ikazuchi.8420]

> @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:"...I saw the minority of trolls that were here before MO's announcement, and how they've increased in number now that they have a "win" to celebrate. But it's not their win. This is about decency and professionalism, not feminism or sexism. And no amount of alt-right trolls will convince me that this community I've been a part of for a decade has suddenly become infested with them. I'm not that easily swayed."

 

This.

 

To quote from an old novel I read a long long time ago, "Who cares how the evil ones die, as long as they die?"

 

ArenaNet had to respond to the damage done to them by Price _now_. They did. Might it cause problems or complications down the road? Certainly. That does not obviate the fact that prompt, decisive action was necessary. A quick, decisive action in the now is far more valuable than an optimized, well-considered act long after the business has lost prestige and money.

 

If the trolls make trouble down the line because they feel they've now been empowered, then it will be up to ArenaNet to address that _then_. There are more than enough issues to address right now, today. There's no need to borrow trouble from tomorrow.

 

 

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

...............

[Asudementio.8526]

> @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > @"Asudementio.8526" said:

> > > @"muffi.3964" said:

> > > > @"Asudementio.8526" said:

> > > > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > >

> > > > > Claims about an alt-right mob are even more ludicrous, if people had even done their homework. Before MO made his announcement, there was very little alt-right trolling, mob mentality or baying going on. It may have increased after his announcement, but it's typical alt-right behavior to spot a situation they can benefit from and jump in and make claims about it, or even appropriate it. Lumping all reasonable and well thought out responses taking a stand against JP's behavior together with the baying trolls is doing a disservice, it's dumb and incredibly transparent. By putting the emphasis on that you're giving them more power than they have. They're trying to incite the mob mentality where there is none and to a certain extent their tactic has worked.

> > > > > Edit: grammar

> > > >

> > > > Your telling of the situation is revisionist.

> > > >

> > > > Within hours of the tweets happening they were already circulating in alt-right communities and their members were already trolling and posting in the 3rd party GW2 forums. There are a number of their posts that were highly magnified and pushed to the top by the the GW2 community. This is very telling of the state of our game's community and i wouldn't be surprised if we notice the toxic elements of the community becoming more and more vocal. MO decided to stand with all the gators so look forward to how that changes our interactions in game for times to come.

> > >

> > > It's because to ppl like you every community is altright that's not drinking the feminist cool-aid. heck some ppl here called goobergate altright.

> >

> > This is just a dishonest attack on my character. Some of us like to be factually correct and that involves identifying GG for what it was. I'm sorry if i've bothered you by pointing this out.

> Gamer gate happened when people tried to paint their political adversaries as being "insert shaming language" while at the same time, as revealed in leaked emails, creating the very content that they were complaining about from said community of people who were disgusted with the gaming journalist industry. The actual people who were complaining about gaming journalism actually wanted to change it in a positive direction. But it's much easier to shut down a conversation, than actually debate it. But as I have mentioned before, the gaming journalist industry died, and they deserved it. YouTube and Twitch is where gaming is at now.

 

If people care to really understand why gamergate is being brought up or mentioned i encourage them to look more fully into it's origins. While the telling above is the popular "palatable" origin of GG it is far far from the truth. Gamergate grew out of a number of toxic online communities who marketed their material for the masses in hopes of pursuing some of their more extremist goals. The above poster's retelling of GG is indicative of how well they succeeded.

 

Regardless, dark days ahead for the GW2 community as map chats begin to show increased vocalization of right-wing trolls. If MO actually cares about the community like he says then i hope swift action will be taken against them.

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Asudementio.8526" said:

 

> Regardless, dark days ahead for the GW2 community as map chats begin to show increased vocalization of right-wing trolls. If MO actually cares about the community like he says then i hope swift action will be taken against them.

 

Nonsense, most of people in game dont know or care about this situation at all, what we have here is just really vocal minority of both sides talking shit cause they have nothing better to do...Anet made right decision by firing her, if you dont agree, just move on, either ignore this or quit the game...this have nothing to do with right/left wing politcs bullshit, keep this crap out of the game.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"Asudementio.8526" said:

>

> If people care to really understand why kitten is being brought up or mentioned i encourage them to look more fully into it's origins. While the telling above is the popular "palatable" origin of GG it is far far from the truth. kitten grew out of a number of toxic online communities who marketed their material for the masses in hopes of pursuing some of their more extremist goals. The above poster's retelling of GG is indicative of how well they succeeded.

>

> Regardless, dark days ahead for the GW2 community as map chats begin to show increased vocalization of right-wing trolls. If MO actually cares about the community like he says then i hope swift action will be taken against them.

 

I haven't seen signs of it in map chat yet, but that's what the report function is for. It's not just up to ANet to do something about it. The community plays a part in this as well.

[TheThirdMan.9281]

how is anything she's said as bad as things people are saying about her now? firing her for her so-called "toxicity" is just a win for all of the toxic sexist fans who now feel like they have the power to force arena net's hand and think they can get anyone fired if they put up enough of a stink. as if women in gaming don't already have it tough enough

[Linken.6345]

> @"TheThirdMan.9281" said:

> how is anything she's said as bad as things people are saying about her now? firing her for her so-called "toxicity" is just a win for all of the toxic sexist fans who now feel like they have the power to force arena net's hand and think they can get anyone fired if they put up enough of a stink. as if women in gaming don't already have it tough enough

 

Let them try to fire someone who dont deserve it just becouse shes a woman for example Gaile Grey they will then get crushed by the majority for being wrong kinda like this dev got.

[Mirion.9361]

They just need to close this discussion , it would be the mature thing to do from growing riots and let everyone go by their day ^^ B)

[cupcake.6951]

The most ironic thing about the Jessica situation is that while women do in fact suffer from sexism in the workplace, especially in the game development industry, no one brought up her gender until she, herself, did. This is coming from me, a woman, as well. She tried to make herself the victim in this situation, and it clearly backfired. While I don't feel that it's right to celebrate someone losing their job, her toxicity has been overwhelming and I feel like this was the best move for ArenaNet as they will no longer be cleaning up her messes. Overall, she did this to herself and I lack sympathy for her in this specific situation.

[inubasiri.8745]

Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

> @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > @"Asudementio.8526" said:

>

> > Regardless, dark days ahead for the GW2 community as map chats begin to show increased vocalization of right-wing trolls. If MO actually cares about the community like he says then i hope swift action will be taken against them.

>

> Nonsense, most of people in game dont know or care about this situation at all, what we have here is just really vocal minority of both sides talking kitten cause they have nothing better to do...Anet made right decision by firing her, if you dont agree, just move on, either ignore this or quit the game...this have nothing to do with right/left wing politcs kitten, keep this crap out of the game.

You are absolutely correct. I mean, it's 2:58 AM in the morning. What am I really doing now?

[Felipe.1807]

> @"TheThirdMan.9281" said:

> how is anything she's said as bad as things people are saying about her now? firing her for her so-called "toxicity" is just a win for all of the toxic sexist fans who now feel like they have the power to force arena net's hand and think they can get anyone fired if they put up enough of a stink. as if women in gaming don't already have it tough enough

 

First, some people are like piranhas, once they see blood on the water they wont stop till there are only bones...this thread is the perfect example, MO allready gave his statament on where Anet stands on this situation, that it, theres no need to keep this conversation....and yet here we are.

Second, she was toxic towards the community, theres no debate on that...nothing to do with sexist or anything you want to say, keep this out of the conversation. She was fired not because of "sexist fans", she was fired cause she reacted poorly to Deroir comments, she was rude towards him and the community, she didnt apologized and keep pushing even further to the point on claiming that he was a sexist...hard to have sympathy for her, she dig her own grave.

Third, eveyones have a hard time on gaming, not just women, stop pretending that trolls try to keep hunting you 24/7 just to keep griefing you, my Guild is 50%+ females and never heard a single complain from them towards our community.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

> @"inubasiri.8745" said:

> Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in.

She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right?

[Sir Twist.9370]

Sorry, I didn't read all 36 pages, but you have to remember we only have less than half the story. We don't know what went on in Mike's office when he called either of them in to discuss the situation. If your boss calls you into his office to discuss something you said to a customer, you may have a chance to salvage the situation. I suspect the response Mike got was less than satisfactory, and that's the real reason they got fired. I don't expect him to be any more specific, due to privacy and legal concerns.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"cupcake.6951" said:

> The most ironic thing about the Jessica situation is that while women do in fact suffer from sexism in the workplace, especially in the game development industry, no one brought up her gender until she, herself, did. This is coming from me, a woman, as well. She tried to make herself the victim in this situation, and it clearly backfired. While I don't feel that it's right to celebrate someone losing their job, her toxicity has been overwhelming and I feel like this was the best move for ArenaNet as they will no longer be cleaning up her messes. Overall, she did this to herself and I lack sympathy for her in this specific situation.

 

You bring up a good point. Woman do suffer from sexism in the workplace among others. But in the case of jessica it's just cuz she is a nasty person. You don't have to agree, but all her old tweets says it all. It is & was mansplining. She just felt the need to kick someone & had to invent a situation where there was none by calling out sexism. She deserves what she deserves. & this is the kind of person that destroys the credibility of real situation of sexism in the workplace for woman. Crying wolf does not help. Ever!

[Loli Ruri.8307]

> @"Sir Twist.9370" said:

> Sorry, I didn't read all 36 pages, but you have to remember we only have less than half the story. We don't know what went on in Mike's office when he called either of them in to discuss the situation. If your boss calls you into his office to discuss something you said to a customer, you may have a chance to salvage the situation. I suspect the response Mike got was less than satisfactory, and that's the real reason they got fired. I don't expect him to be any more specific, due to privacy and legal concerns.

We did however get to see her online activity, which was enough.

[Ajaxx.3157]

Anyone who is quitting GW2 can you please send your Mystic Coins, T3 T6 mats to Ajaxx.3157

 

Thanks.

[Nemmar.8491]

I want to leave my thoughts on this, if it doesn't offend anyone, ofc.

 

I completely agree with Mike O'brian. The behavior of the two devs was inexcusable. I can understand wanting privacy, but when in a public forum you have to be able to deal with criticism, valid or not. Someone might quote this very post and say i am completely wrong. It does not mean i am allowed to get abusive on them and throw my degree on their face. This isn't the news channel, where only specialists should speak. Every opinion is worth just that and people who are specialists are entitled to think they know more and are right. But, it doesn't entitle them to employ arrogance and abuse.

 

J. Price was unfortunately extremely toxic and brought an issue to game design discussion that had no place being there. It reflected poorly on this company and all it's employees as well as the Guild Wars brand itself. Unfortunately the other company employee tried to come to her defense when there was no defense for what she had done.

I am a long time fan of this company. I was here since the very first Guild Wars. I bought every single game Anet has put out and the love of it's devs shows on the product they make. We players love these devs and it's disheartening how one person can cast such a terrible shadow over that. She was "pretending" to like the fans who loved her work. I can only hope that not all devs at anet think this way and i am certain that they do not. Thank you Mike for showing that Anet upholds it's standards and doesn't foster drama's. This could easily have escalated to an us vs them situation where us and them should be working together.

 

Honestly, i would say to every developer that thinks the way that Jessica did, that perhaps you are better off working on games that are single player games, where you don't need to engage with the community. Where it isn't a two way street on how to make a game better. I see this on the WoW dev team as well and such attitudes just lead to the game being worse off. Because the devs ignore the feedback, mistakes are perpetuated until the next expansion. It's a common occurrence in that game and i was always happy to see that Anet rose above that.

 

Finally, to those worried about their jobs because of Reddit. Don't. It wasn't Reddit that got these developers fired. It was the content of their comments. Be a respectful person in public forums and you got nothing to fear. This is just like posting on these here forums and every public forum you might participate in. As long as you respect other people, no one is going to exclude you.

 

Again much regard to Mike for this incredibly difficult situation he got put in and to all Anet employees to whom this shadow was unfairly cast. We love you, we love your game. Keep it up, we are with you if you want to be with us.

 

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > She was a terrible human. Peter Fries was not. Dont forget 2 were terminated. I guess he is not important. He was just there since the beginning. Your are absolutely right, the devs have no fear as long as they smile for the community.

>

> Peter, having been with the company so long, SHOULD have known what would happen if he stepped in, and yet he did step in AND he continued to attack a PARTNER. He's just as guilty in the end.

 

 

Well my dude, i can see your point. Simply by stepping in, he did sealed his fate. And thats is why you shouldn't drink and tweet.

[inubasiri.8745]

> @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > @"inubasiri.8745" said:

> > Congratulations, some of you have just had 2 actual people fired. I hope it was worth being offended on the internet. Sick age we're living in.

> She was offended too. So was he. Because accountability is a sick age we live in. Amazing right?

 

Yeah well if everyone was accountable for making others offended on the internet, we'd all be in jail now. But I guess in this case only the devs got the short straw. As I said, congratulations people (you know who you are), your outcry was heard by the mighty Mo, you don't need to be offended anymore.