Bloodstealer.5978 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > Justice right here: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Keep her job --> Bad PR --> bunch of rich shareholders might get less profit as potential business earnings both current and future might beplaced at risk __> more employees potentially have their jobs and livelihoods put at risk > > > > > 2. Fire her --> lost her income --> has time to reflect and hopefully learn how to take criticism when working in a position where it works hand in hand - whilst also learning how separate her personal and professional ideologies > > > > > > > > FIXED THAT FOR YA... > > > > > > > > > > this is the reality (if bad PR even exist to a certain extend) and a lot seem to have trouble finding a balance > > > > > > > > > > Of course Bad PR exists.. what no one knows is what damage it might do from one person/company to the next. A company's reputation takes a long time to build, but potentially one employees Twittertrash to destroy it. Therefore ANET were placed in a no win situation and handled it accordingly. > > > > You or I have no idea what took place internally to arrive at the outcomes it did and we do not know if any additional issues internally were also subject to the decision making process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. yeah except that this is not how profit works (which is merely extortion of the employees); for the shareholders it won't change thus they don't care > > > 2. she has other things to worry about than reflecting > > > > I don't think you really have any kind of grasp on how business works, it's all in your head. > > Those shareholders put money into a business and in turn that business not only provides a product for us the players to buy, and hopefully enjoy.. it also employees many other people - hardly extortion of the shareholders. If for whatever reasons business drops then tough decisions may be needed so bad PR poses a risk not just to the shareholders but the business in general... and all those other people employed there. > > You think you wouldn't want to make money on a product that you have put a ton of your own money into to making it happen.. that is not extortion, that is business 101. ANET and its shareholders are not running a charity, they are running a business and that business requires its employees to act responsibly whether that be in work time or discussing work related content outside of work. It's that simple. > > JP let herself down and the company, and then tried to pull an ism for effect in the hope it would push an advantage in a discussion she wasn't coping well with. Lets hope she uses some of that paycheck to buy PF a very large beer and a whole lot of "I'm so sorry's" > > who actually produced the product we are talking about? i know very well how business works and your explanation is merely an example of how the shareholders exercise their power (in terms of money, contacts, etc) to cut or hire people which is very true but that doesn't mean that they actually contributed to the product in any way. You think GW2 was made out from chocolate buttons I guess... who put the money in to the business, which in turn hires the people, which procures the equipment, which pays the bills.. shareholders take a risk that the end product succeeds at least enough to get their initial investment back.. why do you think investors want to see quarterly forecasting, yearly forecasting etc... I really don't think you understand business as well as you think. Without there investment there is no product.. that's their contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I've said it before, this is exactly why if I was a game developer, I would not interact with the community, I would hire PR people, and allow them to do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Twyn.7320" said: > No one's saying that losing a livelihood is great. It's only "losing livelihood" if you're up to ears in debt. Else it's just losing a job. And if you're frugal and got savings it's not a huge deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Blaeys.3102" said: > While this was probably the best action for the game and the players, the people involved - and their families - were likely devastated by this. One is young and, given her social media history, has likely just destroyed her chance at any kind of real career in her chosen field. The other is a long time industry veteran who's salary was probably a big part of his family's livelihood. While it might be fun to some to look down on them for some truely stupid behavior, it's worth remembering that we all do and say stupid things. These are real people with real lives that are probably in deep turmoil today. > > So while, as a customer and player, Im glad this worked out the way it did, I also know there was nothing positive about what just happened. Anet lost some real talent (no matter how stupid their recent behavior was), families (spouses, kids, pets, etc) lost needed income and someone likely lost their lifelong dream job. Nothing about that is worth celebrating. Hopefully they learned something from this valuable learning opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > I've said it before, this is exactly why if I was a game developer, I would not interact with the community, I would hire PR people, and allow them to do their job. And if you were indeed that game developer, with the livelihood of 200ish people riding on one game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > Justice right here: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Keep her job --> Bad PR --> bunch of rich shareholders might get less profit as potential business earnings both current and future might beplaced at risk __> more employees potentially have their jobs and livelihoods put at risk > > > > > > 2. Fire her --> lost her income --> has time to reflect and hopefully learn how to take criticism when working in a position where it works hand in hand - whilst also learning how separate her personal and professional ideologies > > > > > > > > > > FIXED THAT FOR YA... > > > > > > > > > > > > this is the reality (if bad PR even exist to a certain extend) and a lot seem to have trouble finding a balance > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course Bad PR exists.. what no one knows is what damage it might do from one person/company to the next. A company's reputation takes a long time to build, but potentially one employees Twittertrash to destroy it. Therefore ANET were placed in a no win situation and handled it accordingly. > > > > > You or I have no idea what took place internally to arrive at the outcomes it did and we do not know if any additional issues internally were also subject to the decision making process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. yeah except that this is not how profit works (which is merely extortion of the employees); for the shareholders it won't change thus they don't care > > > > 2. she has other things to worry about than reflecting > > > > > > I don't think you really have any kind of grasp on how business works, it's all in your head. > > > Those shareholders put money into a business and in turn that business not only provides a product for us the players to buy, and hopefully enjoy.. it also employees many other people - hardly extortion of the shareholders. If for whatever reasons business drops then tough decisions may be needed so bad PR poses a risk not just to the shareholders but the business in general... and all those other people employed there. > > > You think you wouldn't want to make money on a product that you have put a ton of your own money into to making it happen.. that is not extortion, that is business 101. ANET and its shareholders are not running a charity, they are running a business and that business requires its employees to act responsibly whether that be in work time or discussing work related content outside of work. It's that simple. > > > JP let herself down and the company, and then tried to pull an ism for effect in the hope it would push an advantage in a discussion she wasn't coping well with. Lets hope she uses some of that paycheck to buy PF a very large beer and a whole lot of "I'm so sorry's" > > > > who actually produced the product we are talking about? i know very well how business works and your explanation is merely an example of how the shareholders exercise their power (in terms of money, contacts, etc) to cut or hire people which is very true but that doesn't mean that they actually contributed to the product in any way. > > You think GW2 was made out from chocolate buttons I guess... who put the money in to the business, which in turn hires the people, which procures the equipment, which pays the bills.. shareholders take a risk that the end product succeeds at least enough to get their initial investment back.. why do you think investors want to see quarterly forecasting, yearly forecasting etc... I really don't think you understand business as well as you think. > Without there investment there is no product.. that's their contribution. yes i'm very aware of this, you just fail to see that investing (which is exercising capital power) does not contribute in producing the product, it's just controlling the flow. investors actually have the least risk of any involved in business as they are rich enough and it wouldn't affect their lives at all , not talking about small scale personal investment of course. how different is this for the workers who get fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > I've said it before, this is exactly why if I was a game developer, I would not interact with the community, I would hire PR people, and allow them to do their job. > > And if you were indeed that game developer, with the livelihood of 200ish people riding on one game.... The fact that I have no idea what you are even trying to say with this.. is yet another reason why I would not interact with the player base, and let PR handle things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Felipe.1807" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > so.......what happened..... > > i see more fights here then on a facebook page about thor VS superman. > > Superman is strong and all, but Thor wins easy... > > But being serious...I am surprised that this thread is still going on lol, where is mods when you need them...but the basically everything goes down to how she responded to not only a customer, but a Anet partner as well...I didnt followed the whole thing, but the message that both she and the other dude that got fired is that they dont care for ours opinions or what we think...this is not the kind of image that the devs should pass to us....I mean, makes you think how many more devs probably follow the same thinking? Take a look at sPvP or WvW...its hard to say that this isnt true lol its something that many players have been saying for years, but now 2 devs basically gave proof that is actually true... no wonder i can take them just as serious as DC, their sense is as good as a guy in a rubber suit at night while having a small kid as sidekick fighting a clown........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > I've said it before, this is exactly why if I was a game developer, I would not interact with the community, I would hire PR people, and allow them to do their job. > > > > And if you were indeed that game developer, with the livelihood of 200ish people riding on one game.... > > The fact that I have no idea what you are even trying to say with this.. is yet another reason why I would not interact with the player base, and let PR handle things. Just trying to get you to imagine being Mike O'Brien, with all his responsibility, reading through that twitter history. I'd be hot too xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitsbees.8137 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Looking more into the tweets and what happened, I am even more confused at Jessica Price being fired. She didn't attack anyone. If voicing frustration at people telling you how to do your job, is grounds for firing, then yeah I absolutely think ArenaNet is telling its playerbase that it's okay to harass their employees. This firing of two employees is total B.S. especially since the other person wasn't actually attacking someone. This is a totally overblown response from Anet to please what is a super toxic and hostile community, which is super disappointing to see happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolmos.8395 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > I've said it before, this is exactly why if I was a game developer, I would not interact with the community, I would hire PR people, and allow them to do their job. > > > > And if you were indeed that game developer, with the livelihood of 200ish people riding on one game.... > > The fact that I have no idea what you are even trying to say with this.. is yet another reason why I would not interact with the player base, and let PR handle things. As a developer working at a company with a lot of clients, I would never consider interacting with them in a non-official capacity. My personal everything is on lockdown. Private Facebook, twitter, all of it. No one can see a thing I post unless I friend them. I would have a separate account for interacting with the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphorite.6192 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"omgitsbees.8137" said: > Looking more into the tweets and what happened, I am even more confused at Jessica Price being fired. She didn't attack anyone. If voicing frustration at people telling you how to do your job, is grounds for firing, then yeah I absolutely think ArenaNet is telling its playerbase that it's okay to harass their employees. This firing of two employees is total B.S. especially since the other person wasn't actually attacking someone. This is a totally overblown response from Anet to please what is a super toxic and hostile community, which is super disappointing to see happen. I see it the same way. JP and PF didn't deserve this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Thinking aloud, i'm wondering why it has been chosen to keep this thread going, in all due fairness it doesn't make pretty reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > > Justice right here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Keep her job --> Bad PR --> bunch of rich shareholders might get less profit as potential business earnings both current and future might beplaced at risk __> more employees potentially have their jobs and livelihoods put at risk > > > > > > > 2. Fire her --> lost her income --> has time to reflect and hopefully learn how to take criticism when working in a position where it works hand in hand - whilst also learning how separate her personal and professional ideologies > > > > > > > > > > > > FIXED THAT FOR YA... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is the reality (if bad PR even exist to a certain extend) and a lot seem to have trouble finding a balance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course Bad PR exists.. what no one knows is what damage it might do from one person/company to the next. A company's reputation takes a long time to build, but potentially one employees Twittertrash to destroy it. Therefore ANET were placed in a no win situation and handled it accordingly. > > > > > > You or I have no idea what took place internally to arrive at the outcomes it did and we do not know if any additional issues internally were also subject to the decision making process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. yeah except that this is not how profit works (which is merely extortion of the employees); for the shareholders it won't change thus they don't care > > > > > 2. she has other things to worry about than reflecting > > > > > > > > I don't think you really have any kind of grasp on how business works, it's all in your head. > > > > Those shareholders put money into a business and in turn that business not only provides a product for us the players to buy, and hopefully enjoy.. it also employees many other people - hardly extortion of the shareholders. If for whatever reasons business drops then tough decisions may be needed so bad PR poses a risk not just to the shareholders but the business in general... and all those other people employed there. > > > > You think you wouldn't want to make money on a product that you have put a ton of your own money into to making it happen.. that is not extortion, that is business 101. ANET and its shareholders are not running a charity, they are running a business and that business requires its employees to act responsibly whether that be in work time or discussing work related content outside of work. It's that simple. > > > > JP let herself down and the company, and then tried to pull an ism for effect in the hope it would push an advantage in a discussion she wasn't coping well with. Lets hope she uses some of that paycheck to buy PF a very large beer and a whole lot of "I'm so sorry's" > > > > > > who actually produced the product we are talking about? i know very well how business works and your explanation is merely an example of how the shareholders exercise their power (in terms of money, contacts, etc) to cut or hire people which is very true but that doesn't mean that they actually contributed to the product in any way. > > > > You think GW2 was made out from chocolate buttons I guess... who put the money in to the business, which in turn hires the people, which procures the equipment, which pays the bills.. shareholders take a risk that the end product succeeds at least enough to get their initial investment back.. why do you think investors want to see quarterly forecasting, yearly forecasting etc... I really don't think you understand business as well as you think. > > Without there investment there is no product.. that's their contribution. > > yes i'm very aware of this, you just fail to see that investing (which is exercising capital power) does not contribute in producing the product, it's just controlling the flow. > investors actually have the least risk of any involved in business as they are rich enough and it wouldn't affect their lives at all , not talking about small scale personal investment of course. how different is this for the workers who get fired? Lol.. you don't make any sense at all, your going round in your own circles and coming up with answers to your own questions in a roundabout kind of way :) Just because investors have money doesn't mean that it's not a valid contribution.. if they didn't contribute would GW2 be here and if so in what budgeted capacity.. you fail to understand that just being able to afford something doesn't change the rule of business. It matters not what size of investor or investors are involved.. its a valid contribution which the business needs to see a product come to fruition. Without their investment or worse if they pull their investment because of issues like we have seen today.. who pays the other "x" number of employees wages.. like I said, build a business, look for investment to launch a product, employ staff and see how far it gets you when something hits the fan and the investors decide to pull away... Of course this is all theory craft and ANET will likely do just fine through this dark few days. Lesson learned.. think before you open the trap door JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzi.8513 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Twyn.7320" said: > No one's saying that losing a livelihood is great. However, it was the only rational outcome that ArenaNet had. They were about to lose a lot of business and financial gain if they didn't make the correct decision, in-keeping with the industry standard. She didn't just attack the Guild Wars 2 community, she attacked TotalBiscuit and other developers in the industry, and a Bioware developer was recently fired for the same thing. This story has already spread outwards to multiple media outlets, and the dismissal of the employees involved was the only ending to this horrendous farce. > I don't think it was the best decision. There could have been other options: - Anet could have apologized for her behavior. - Jessica Price could have been told to apologize to the community, too. - They could have given her a verbal or a written warning. - They could have given her support if she feels stressed by mean comments, sexism and harrassment. - They could have told her to delete her Twitter account. - etc. Neither she nor Peter would have lost their jobs, she would most likely not have done something like that again and I'm 100% sure that no one would have cared about the incident 2 weeks later. In my opinion this would have been a much better outcome of the situation. I think most players overreact a bit about her latest Twitter comments. I'm an extremely sensitive person, but not even I felt attacked by her in any way. I'm sure many GW2 players who complain about her behavior have heard her name for the first time yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakubeC.3026 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 RIP Peter. SJWism takes yet another innocent life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedek.8932 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > If I ever had an employee make a derogatory statement publicly against a client, on an account directly identifying them as a member of my company [...] Did he? Wasn't it just reading "Professional writer and artist"? That can mean everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfador.7649 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Phosphorite.6192" said: > > @"Alfador.7649" said: > > > @"Phosphorite.6192" said: > > > > @"Daxramas.1940" said: > > > > > @"morology.2507" said: > > > > > Disgusted to see ArenaNet pandering to a pathetic ggate-style hate mob. I won't be playing their games anymore. > > > > > > > > Are you willing to elaborate on this? > > > > > > O'Brien characterized not only JPs but PFs actions as "attacks against the community" and didn't lose one word about the incredibly toxic reactions they both had to face from certain despicable "community members". He threw both of them under the bus, even PF although all he did was defend JPs position in polite(!) words. If that's not pandering, tell me what is. > > > > > > As CEO he has responsibility towards his employees, to back them up against unreasonable demands from "consumers" who don't get that they purchased a product, not the time and life of the people who worked on said product. He did an incredible disservice to JP and PFand couldn't have handled this whole thing worse. > > > > JP launched an unprovoked attack on the community. Like it her not her job pretty much entails doing _exactly not that_. Anet didn't pander to anyone. These people made their own bed and quite frankly even had nobody said a single word calling for her termination, just seeing that conduct should have been enough for them to fire her on the spot. Employees who launch unprovoked attacks on customers are bad employers, full stop. It's profoundly unprofessional and indefensible. If someone working for me got even half as hostile as she did with a customer, let alone a content partner, in public display, with the company name on their profile and while discussing company business, I wouldn't even wait for someone to complain to show them the door, _even if I agreed with everything they said_. > > Then I'm very sorry for the employees who have to work under you. Sacrificing their personal agency on their personal feed about something that directly affects them, just because their employer fears some bad publicity (which they handled incredibly poorly) is not worth it. I'M proud of JP and PF for speaking out against covert sexism and especially JP doesn't owe anyone any false friendliness. Everyone who's ever had to work with or under me has done just fine, thanks. In fact I've never actually had this problem because they're all respectful, sane individuals who are both too smart and too professional to level personal attacks at their customers and accuse them of bigotry out of the blue. The most sexist actions of the day belong to JP, and it's so starkly obvious that there is no sane way to debate it. She assumed someone's agenda based on their gender, then accused that person and everyone else who was rightly put off by it of sexism while reveling in their "hurt manfeels." PF for some insane reason decided to chime in and tell the community that their opinions don't matter, in direct contradiction to what his employer repeatedly said. Nobody that monumentally unprofessional is qualified to work in even a marginally professional setting. Not even close. If you want to be proud of two fools who cut off their noses to spite their faces, go ahead. Most people wouldn't find tilting at windmills to more pitiable than admirable but far be it from me to tell you what to think. Just don't expect me not to laugh at it when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"omgitsbees.8137" said: > Looking more into the tweets and what happened, I am even more confused at Jessica Price being fired. She didn't attack anyone. If voicing frustration at people telling you how to do your job, is grounds for firing, then yeah I absolutely think ArenaNet is telling its playerbase that it's okay to harass their employees. This firing of two employees is total B.S. especially since the other person wasn't actually attacking someone. This is a totally overblown response from Anet to please what is a super toxic and hostile community, which is super disappointing to see happen. Here’s a ( ) for you with commentary and all the relevant posts. I think you’ll find it enlightening as she did continue to insult the next day long after the person had already apologized (twice) and left her site, as well as picking a fight with another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digit.1823 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Phosphorite.6192" said: > All she did was not being complacent in the face of covert sexism, which is something she should be applauded for, not fired. > > And the only thing I saw her tweet about TBs death was being glad that an abusive person has no longer the opportunity to be abusive, which I'm absolutely fine with. I dare you to find the "covert sexism" hidden in the following quote: Really interesting thread to read! ? However, allow me to disagree slightly. I dont believe the issue lies in the MMORPG genre itself (as your wording seemingly suggest). I believe the issue lies in the contraints of the Living Story's narrative design;When you want the outcome to be the same across the board for all players' experiences, then yes, by design you are extremely limited in how you can contruct the personality of the PC. But, if instead players were given the option to meaningfully express their character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options), then perhaps players would be more invested in the roleplaying aspect of that particular MMORPG. Nonetheless, I appreciate the insightful thread! Scratch that, i double dare you. Scratch that, i triple dare you and if you manage to find it i will literally send the next legendary i make in-game to you for free. And lel @ you for basically making the same comment JP did when it came to TB's death. Amazing, truly amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSS.4605 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I really don't understand how people can believe that they 'won' with this outcome. Two peoples careers destroyed, devs will probably stop their social media committment and a big fuzz over nothing. How can anyone assume to measure a person based on their reaction when Reddit-Police is on a case? Also, this is about sexism. Look at some of the comments here. I am not talking about the initial "Twitter-Affair". But do people really believe that this did not blow up solely because JP played the "I am a woman"-card? After that, the vultures started flying in. If this is what the Guild Wars 2 community is, then I don't even want to play this game anymore. I know that no one here cares about that, but it's sad that this is punishment for the other devs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfador.7649 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > The weird thing is Jessica Price still haven't removed "Arenanet Narrative Team" from her Twitter bio. I'm calling conspiracists. > > > > Heh. Mo's post did just say 2 people got let go. Be hilarious to find out it was just 2 interns they caught smoking weed in the closet, and JP and PF were just happily writing away in the narrative room while everyone is eating each other like a pack of wild dogs on the forums. =D > > > > Seriously, though, getting let go from a career position can be a jarring experience. A lot of folks just need to take a day to regather themselves. It doesn't seem like it would get to you, but when it happens it can definitely affect you more than you would think. > > > > Another option is that they are speaking to employment attorneys to figure out their options, and are avoiding taking any action until the consultation is complete. > > > > Whatever the cause, I wouldn't read anything into it. > > I actually laughed. :x > Let's hope they both find new jobs, as better people. > @"Zedek.8932" said: > > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > > If I ever had an employee make a derogatory statement publicly against a client, on an account directly identifying them as a member of my company [...] > > Did he? Wasn't it just reading "Professional writer and artist"? That can mean everything. > > PF's twitter had references to Anet on its description prior to the aforementioned "letting go" of two employees that everyone is reasonably assuming are Jessica and Peter. It's apparent in screenshots and archives of the tweets. Of course, even if he didn't, it's readily apparent from his actions that he was presenting as a member of the company. I don't put my employer on my profile anyway because it's just generally a bad idea, but if I entered a conversation with a co-worker who did and started talking in the context of our work, I may as well be doing that. I think it's also apparent that she hasn't so much as touched her twitter since this reached its peak. Hopefully she figured out that no matter what her next steps are, the smart thing to do is to stop and cool off. Based on her outbursts previously I suspect the only way for her to do that is to stay off it entirely. One way or another both of these people made it rather apparent that they were ArenaNet employeees speaking in the context of work done by ArenaNet employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockshock.6378 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"TSS.4605" said: > I really don't understand how people can believe that they 'won' with this outcome. Two peoples careers destroyed, devs will probably stop their social media committment and a big fuzz over nothing. > How can anyone assume to measure a person based on their reaction when Reddit-Police is on a case? > > Also, this is about sexism. Look at some of the comments here. I am not talking about the initial "Twitter-Affair". But do people really believe that this did not blow up solely because JP played the "I am a woman"-card? After that, the vultures started flying in. > > If this is what the Guild Wars 2 community is, then I don't even want to play this game anymore. I know that no one here cares about that, but it's sad that this is punishment for the other devs as well. This isnt the first time Devs been fired over twitter messages. It's not gonna stop devs from talking to the community. Or stop devs from tweeting and interacting. If that was the case it woulda happened a long time ago. And especially EA Devs woulda stopped a long time ago considering all the shit EA studios gets from fans for their games. Not sure where you get this dellusion that it'll change how devs interact with a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponet.4829 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"franzi.8513" said: > > @"Twyn.7320" said: > > No one's saying that losing a livelihood is great. However, it was the only rational outcome that ArenaNet had. They were about to lose a lot of business and financial gain if they didn't make the correct decision, in-keeping with the industry standard. She didn't just attack the Guild Wars 2 community, she attacked TotalBiscuit and other developers in the industry, and a Bioware developer was recently fired for the same thing. This story has already spread outwards to multiple media outlets, and the dismissal of the employees involved was the only ending to this horrendous farce. > > > > I don't think it was the best decision. There could have been other options: > > - Anet could have apologized for her behavior. > - Jessica Price could have been told to apologize to the community, too. > - They could have given her a verbal or a written warning. > - They could have given her support if she feels stressed by mean comments, sexism and harrassment. > - They could have told her to delete her Twitter account. > - etc. > > Neither she nor Peter would have lost their jobs, she would most likely not have done something like that again and I'm 100% sure that no one would have cared about the incident 2 weeks later. In my opinion this would have been a much better outcome of the situation. I think most players overreact a bit about her latest Twitter comments. I'm an extremely sensitive person, but not even I felt attacked by her in any way. I'm sure many GW2 players who complain about her behavior have heard her name for the first time yesterday. How do you know that she wasn't given the option to make a public appology but just refused? From what I read, she likely would have refused or the appology would have been completely insincere. She clearly seemed to be resolute in the idea that she was in the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > > > Justice right here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Keep her job --> Bad PR --> bunch of rich shareholders might get less profit as potential business earnings both current and future might beplaced at risk __> more employees potentially have their jobs and livelihoods put at risk > > > > > > > > 2. Fire her --> lost her income --> has time to reflect and hopefully learn how to take criticism when working in a position where it works hand in hand - whilst also learning how separate her personal and professional ideologies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FIXED THAT FOR YA... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is the reality (if bad PR even exist to a certain extend) and a lot seem to have trouble finding a balance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course Bad PR exists.. what no one knows is what damage it might do from one person/company to the next. A company's reputation takes a long time to build, but potentially one employees Twittertrash to destroy it. Therefore ANET were placed in a no win situation and handled it accordingly. > > > > > > > You or I have no idea what took place internally to arrive at the outcomes it did and we do not know if any additional issues internally were also subject to the decision making process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. yeah except that this is not how profit works (which is merely extortion of the employees); for the shareholders it won't change thus they don't care > > > > > > 2. she has other things to worry about than reflecting > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you really have any kind of grasp on how business works, it's all in your head. > > > > > Those shareholders put money into a business and in turn that business not only provides a product for us the players to buy, and hopefully enjoy.. it also employees many other people - hardly extortion of the shareholders. If for whatever reasons business drops then tough decisions may be needed so bad PR poses a risk not just to the shareholders but the business in general... and all those other people employed there. > > > > > You think you wouldn't want to make money on a product that you have put a ton of your own money into to making it happen.. that is not extortion, that is business 101. ANET and its shareholders are not running a charity, they are running a business and that business requires its employees to act responsibly whether that be in work time or discussing work related content outside of work. It's that simple. > > > > > JP let herself down and the company, and then tried to pull an ism for effect in the hope it would push an advantage in a discussion she wasn't coping well with. Lets hope she uses some of that paycheck to buy PF a very large beer and a whole lot of "I'm so sorry's" > > > > > > > > who actually produced the product we are talking about? i know very well how business works and your explanation is merely an example of how the shareholders exercise their power (in terms of money, contacts, etc) to cut or hire people which is very true but that doesn't mean that they actually contributed to the product in any way. > > > > > > You think GW2 was made out from chocolate buttons I guess... who put the money in to the business, which in turn hires the people, which procures the equipment, which pays the bills.. shareholders take a risk that the end product succeeds at least enough to get their initial investment back.. why do you think investors want to see quarterly forecasting, yearly forecasting etc... I really don't think you understand business as well as you think. > > > Without there investment there is no product.. that's their contribution. > > > > yes i'm very aware of this, you just fail to see that investing (which is exercising capital power) does not contribute in producing the product, it's just controlling the flow. > > investors actually have the least risk of any involved in business as they are rich enough and it wouldn't affect their lives at all , not talking about small scale personal investment of course. how different is this for the workers who get fired? > > Lol.. you don't make any sense at all, your going round in your own circles and coming up with answers to your own questions in a roundabout kind of way :) > Just because investors have money doesn't mean that it's not a valid contribution.. if they didn't contribute would GW2 be here and if so in what budgeted capacity.. you fail to understand that just being able to afford something doesn't change the rule of business. It matters not what size of investor or investors are involved.. its a valid contribution which the business needs to see a product come to fruition. > Without their investment or worse if they pull their investment because of issues like we have seen today.. who pays the other "x" number of employees wages.. like I said, build a business, look for investment to launch a product, employ staff and see how far it gets you when something hits the fan and the investors decide to pull away... > > Of course this is all theory craft and ANET will likely do just fine through this dark few days. > Lesson learned.. think before you open the trap door JP. so take gw2 as an example, a product that sold for millions, do you really think the programmers are stupid and are unable to manage themselves? gw2 sells itself the programmers are limited in capital because it's in the hands of a few investors. nobody in the world needs for-profit investors, it's merely the law protecting their capital (protection of private and intellectual property), preventing the workers from taking capital in forms of revenue, sales, w/e. Their salary is the value of their labor, minus the profit made in production taken by the investor, who didn't produce anything but took most hence i call it extortion. investors didn't make gw2, the programmers did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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