Bloodstealer.5978 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Dengar.1785" said: > Everybody can damage their company’s reputation. Even Dave from Accounting. As can Bob and Barbara the Basements Broom pushers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > Today a neighbor's kid shared her artwork with my family. > > > > > > > > > > > > Her: Look at this drawing! > > > > > > Me: That's really interesting! I'm a big fan of your work. But, let me give you a little advice, maybe if you colored in the lines people wouldn't have problems with your art. > > > > > > Her: *Biggest frown I've ever seen* > > > > > > Me: You getting upset at my obvious attempt to create a dialogue with you really upsets me. If that's the way you're going to be then sorry. > > > > > > Her: *Starts crying* > > > > > > My Family: He's just being polite. Fine, let's get the neighbors involved and we'll see who's right. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Thanks for comments. Made some edits based on them > > > > > > > > > > So Price has the maturity level of a child? I'm not sure where you are going with this. > > > > > > > > > > Also you are missing the part where the kid starts calling you stupid and you having no clue because you are an adult and thus inferior skill wise to it. > > > > > > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > > @"mewbee.6489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mewbee.6489" said: > > > > > > > > > I never thought i would post on a GW2 forum, I never even thought I would play GW2, but here I am. My partner has been playing for years and eventually wore me down. I just started playing a couple of weeks ago and I am obsessed. The story keeps getting better and better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just wanted to express my disappointment about this Jessica Price deal. The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about. He might not have been aware of it, or intended it, but I think it was her full right to call him out on it. From what we have heard, this twitter rant is the reason Jessica and Fries were fired. Ive tried to see this from Arenanets side but i just cannot support it. I can't agree with a company trying to silence their employees. This was a woman tired of men trying to explain to her how to do her job, she defended herself and her work at arenanet, and got fired for it. I do not think calling a fan an kitten is a legitimate reason to fire someone. They should have defended their staff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the bajillionth time... *Which part was condescending? Where is your evidence? I’m getting so sick and tired of accusations without evidence.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, he wasn’t just any old fan, he was a partnered content creator. And even without that, bullying your customer, especially without provocation, will get you fired *amywhere*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You haven't corrected ME a bajillion times. Maybe Jessica has been corrected a bajillion times on how to do her work, maybe that's why she reacted the way she did. And you seem to be able to take your frustration out on people openly on forums without getting canned, you can even do it a bajillion times! Btw, how is what she said bullying? Like you said, he is not just a fan, he is a grown kitten man who works in the same industry and should be able to take criticism on his language use. Just like she should, without getting fired. > > > > > > > I know I'm not getting anywhere with this, you obviously do not understand how what he said what condescending, and how this is a commonly reoccurring theme in being a woman in, well, any industry. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't explain mansplaining to men who want to mansplain. The concept requires too much self-reflection and effort to change that they must reject it flat out. They will choose ignorance, personal attacks, outright denial, anything to avoid being better people. > > > > > > > > > > > > What's worse, calling out mansplaining physically hurts them. They are so fragile and incapable of even thinking that someone would think they are wrong, that they get physically ill at the thought. That's why you're getting these kinds of reactions here. You are hurting them. They've been coddled all their lives and need to continue to be. Even at the expense of everyone else. That's the decision Anet made, afterall. > > > > > > > > > > > > To borrow from a different quote: Sexism is a problem of men. But it's a problem for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but this piece alone proves that sexism is not a problem of only men. You are very effective in showing that women can be just as sexist. Kudos, you win this one. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not going to bother to mainsplain sexism to you. I'm sure you can google the definition by yourself and see just how sexist your remark was. > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we even begin a conversation if you aren't even will to see a bit of my side? I understand very well where you are coming from. I understand the underpinnings and privilege that brought about that way of thinking. I'm sympathetic too. But I've rarely seen anyone who says what you say even consider the other side. And I'm not seeing that here. > > > > > > The fact that you even double down on your insults is astonishing. My privilege? You know absolutely NOTHING about me except that I might be a male. Yet you have me all figured out and all the other men in this thread too. > > > > > > Are you even listening to how you are coming across? That is textbook sexism right there. > > > > In addition, I said a very particular kind of man. That's what we should be discussing. > > Wrong, you generalised it not made it specific. And the whole point of this thread is there was zero sexism at play, there was no angle or narrative created by the man in question and there was no toxicity on his part.... > All you intentionally trying to do here is inflate a sexist debate by generalising any and every male poster here as being unsympathetic to a very real issue in the world, that its only men that create the issue and that nothing else is relevant.. you are no better than some of the twitter and reddit trolls trying to incite the same thing on both sides of this whole sad affair. > You don't even understand how someone posting something totally work related as an extension to a work article she was heavily involved out to the wider community/customers, whilst also advertising her role within the company, makes it company business. Therefore if you then decide to go full bloodrage and absurdly over the top, whilst making serious accusation and implying something as serious as sexism within her workplace.. you better believe its company business. > Fact.. JP acted like the kitten she likened the members of the community to, she was offensive, obnoxious, condescending and played the gender card where it was never warranted and when she did.. ANETS customer base and the reddit trolls she attracted all by herself hit back in outrage …both men and women. JP did nothing more than paint herself to be the very thing she supposedly strives to fight against and that only shallows something that is very real issue. > Fact - A multi million Dollar company doesn't wake up in the morning and think, ding, lets fire 2 people today. They will of looked at what had gone down, they would of assessed the facts, they would of consulted with HR and legal and then they would of called a meeting and ask the individuals concerned to put their side of the story on the table.. as well as the proof to back up any claims made during the incident. > then after further deliberation and diligently looking at protocol and process they would of made a decision... and not necessarily the one they finally made.. they may of requested other alternatives to be considered.. that we quite rightly will never know or whether there were already other detailed issues that the company was aware of which may of been factored into the process. Please don't misrepresent me. I said "men who want to mansplain." I was very clear about that. #notallfoxes  Dang it! I only made this post for the John Oliver joke and the image won't show! :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > It's a shame. She seems really talented and has probably worked really hard to get where she is, but all her actions since getting fired are throwing up more red flags than a communist parade Her incredibly abrasive personality makes me highly suspect that she got where she was on hard work to be honest. People like that don't go far on merit alone unless they are SSS+ rank at their job. The fact that she got outright fired instead of given a warning and made to close her twitter account makes me think she acts like this in her everyday activities and only when it spilled into the public space did it reach the breaking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 In case anyone is wondering what all this is, it's called concern trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrolan.9608 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > But yeah Deroir was definitely hurt by this, since the accusation of sexism is a sticky stigma that brings trouble and turmoil in the future. It's a bit like being called a witch back in Salem: Either you admit to it and suffer discrimination for untold amounts of time, or deny it and suffer worse consequences. I'm going to paraphrase Ben Shapiro here: Please cite evidence that he has been hurt by this in terms of his PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolmos.8395 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"morrolan.9608" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > But yeah Deroir was definitely hurt by this, since the accusation of sexism is a sticky stigma that brings trouble and turmoil in the future. It's a bit like being called a witch back in Salem: Either you admit to it and suffer discrimination for untold amounts of time, or deny it and suffer worse consequences. I'm going to paraphrase Ben Shapiro here: > > Please cite evidence that he has been hurt by this in terms of his PR. You mean other than every article about this so far, such as the verge and polygon, referring to him as just a condescending male fan telling her how to do her job? That's a hell of a way to get exposure outside of the Guild Wars market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenaos.8160 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > > @"morrolan.9608" said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > But yeah Deroir was definitely hurt by this, since the accusation of sexism is a sticky stigma that brings trouble and turmoil in the future. It's a bit like being called a witch back in Salem: Either you admit to it and suffer discrimination for untold amounts of time, or deny it and suffer worse consequences. I'm going to paraphrase Ben Shapiro here: > > > > Please cite evidence that he has been hurt by this in terms of his PR. > > You mean other than every article about this so far, such as the verge and polygon, referring to him as just a condescending male fan telling her how to do her job? That's a hell of a way to get exposure outside of the Guild Wars market. That is just poor reporting on those outlets' side though. And in the end low quality reporting like this,that's borderline fake news,reflects bad on the reporters before anyone else. It's really easy to access the source material and see that what they reported is not at all the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadshow.9320 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Ardid.7203" said: > Lets just celebrate another triumph of the mob mentality. At this point we could even make a drinking game of it... > It clear nobody listened to Ventari in this. So? The mob is right this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolmos.8395 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Aenaos.8160" said: > > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > > > @"morrolan.9608" said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > > But yeah Deroir was definitely hurt by this, since the accusation of sexism is a sticky stigma that brings trouble and turmoil in the future. It's a bit like being called a witch back in Salem: Either you admit to it and suffer discrimination for untold amounts of time, or deny it and suffer worse consequences. I'm going to paraphrase Ben Shapiro here: > > > > > > Please cite evidence that he has been hurt by this in terms of his PR. > > > > You mean other than every article about this so far, such as the verge and polygon, referring to him as just a condescending male fan telling her how to do her job? That's a hell of a way to get exposure outside of the Guild Wars market. > > That is just poor reporting on those outlets' side though. > And in the end low quality reporting like this,that's borderline fake news,reflects bad on the reporters before anyone else. > It's really easy to access the source material and see that what they reported is not at all the case. It absolutely is, but realistically most people won't do that. What they know of the events will come from those articles; anything those people know about him will come from those articles, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrolan.9608 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > > @"morrolan.9608" said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > But yeah Deroir was definitely hurt by this, since the accusation of sexism is a sticky stigma that brings trouble and turmoil in the future. It's a bit like being called a witch back in Salem: Either you admit to it and suffer discrimination for untold amounts of time, or deny it and suffer worse consequences. I'm going to paraphrase Ben Shapiro here: > > > > Please cite evidence that he has been hurt by this in terms of his PR. > > You mean other than every article about this so far, such as the verge and polygon, referring to him as just a condescending male fan telling her how to do her job? That's a hell of a way to get exposure outside of the Guild Wars market. This is not evidence that he has actually been hurt. He's not a professional game dev, he's a gamer who creates content for GW2 enough that they term him a content partner, is he even being paid for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Tolmos.8395" said: > These interviews will not help her; they are only going to hurt her. If self-righteous indignation is a drug, journalists (of all sorts, not just in gaming) are basically the street-level pushers. It would be naive to expect them to do anything other than encourage her to commit career suicide in a way that generates outrage on all sides and sells eyeballs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruine.8510 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > No, but a person that **only** posted on this thread is suspicious at best. Which doesn't describe me at all as I had started posting well before this started. Which having checked my history was easy enough to discover but because an opposing viewpoint was offered then suspicious at best is the correct phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furoshiki.6231 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > Wait, she was being paid for her comments? Those specific comments in particular? No. But was part of her paycheck about properly representing the company in public? Absolutely. Failure to do so is a breach of trust with her employer. Anyone who thinks that publicly attacking company partners and the company customer base is somehow acceptable is living an an alternate reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donari.5237 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said: > Probably off-topic but this video is relevant to this thread and the overall issue as it pertains to anger. > > Fun fact: When "memes" first became a concept, they weren't cute pictures with funny captions. They were exactly what this video describes. There was even at least one SF novel exploring the "Meme Wars" where warring concepts were deliberately sown to control populations. It does give a fascinating insight into the mechanisms driving this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhani.5361 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said: > Probably off-topic but this video is relevant to this thread and the overall issue as it pertains to anger. > > Grrrr! **Triggered** ...and it sums everything in this thread up perfectly. Sad, because this entire situation is pure anger bait. Personally, I'm a morass of seething rage in a bunch of different directions, including straight at myself. Part of being human, I guess. So I'm doing my kitten-est to keep me and my temper out of this as much as possible. This whole situation stinks from just about every angle, unless you're one of those sock-puppet drama llamas who loves being a baiter or brigader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > > > > > > > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If said people are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - talking about work related things > > > > > > > - have made very clear whom they work for (via clothing for example) > > > > > > > - have used said work relation to garner credibility > > > > > > > - to fans of said company > > > > > > > - have their company in their twitter bio > > > > > > > - have not set their profile to private > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then yes, they are representing the company even in their free time and on their social media account. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm trying to get at here. Where is the line? I expect us each to have our own opinions about that. But overall, we should consider something that actually works in the real world. Something that protects people from being unfair abused. I don't necessarily mean insults. I mean people being genuinely hurt in such a way that it affects their lives and livelihoods. If you feel those guidelines do that, then that's fine for you. However, I think that's a lot to ask of an employee, who just wants to do the job they love well. > > > > > > > > > > It's almost like none of us had a job here... > > > > > I work in IT too, and I use an alias to express free speech. That's the line. Public figure = don't insult people. Pretty much like IRL actually. > > > > > > > > > > And JP has the same problem you're having right now. Everyone is working hard to demonstrate there was absolutely no ill intend in the initial message. Nobody is even denying that yes it might have been uncalled for. But what do you do? You refuse to even considerate the fact there's no ill intent, you refuse to acknowledge it, and instead you double down by pulling the gender card. > > > > > And just like JP, you won't ever apologize for making a mistake. > > > > > > > > > > The problem is while you, as a anonymous user don't have to apologize, she as a public figure, is the first thing she should have done after realizing this specific case wasn't sexist at all, instead of doubling down. > > > > > Burn out happens, Women do get some snarky comments from time to time and it IS absolutely disgusting, but just like everyone they can also be unfair. So instead of being stubborn and calling all the evils of the world on a mistake, just own that mistake. It's what it takes to be professional and it's something all women and men are subject to. > > > > > > > > > > I know I can't prove it now, but trust me if there had been a single sign acknowledging a mistake (not even entering the debate, but just saying "I've had a bad day, sorry if that came out rude" I would have been on your side against all kinds of extreme right you think surround her. The fact is that to this day, she still hasn't. > > > > > > > > Again, I've already stated that I don't believe that Deroir intended to offend Jessica. Not sure why you are so hung up on me. I'm just trying to explain what I believe. > > > > > > Because you spent quite a few pages sticking on the "mansplain" argument, and calling Deroir condescending? > > > I'm glad if you changed your mind though, debating about what are the limits of social medias is indeed more important the fantasies. > > > > Oh, I still believe he was mansplaining, which is condescending. Again, I just don't believe that he realized he was doing that. JP saw it, and flipped out. It could have easily been resolved by the two of them, but both choose to dig in. JP for going beyond her initial post on it. And Deroir for his "Sorry, not sorry" apology. > > You can believe it, it doesn't make it true. You're allowed to be sexist it's not yet illegal. > > Deroir gave up after his initial response. To me, the "intent" I see is someone disillusioned and shocked by the rude answer of the dev. To you it's sorry not sorry, oh well. > Doesn't change the fact that the gender card was pulled after, and the guy stopped before that. > You know, if I really wanted to feed this non sense, I could just as well said that literally everything she said after her initial post was womansplaining. Her tone is actually condescending to me, and I'm pretty sure the intent is also to be that way. > But yeah, I'd rather believe that it's that person, not her gender, that makes her condescending. Womansplaining isn't a thing just like his mansplaining is BS. So I found this definition, and it wasn't on wikipedia or urban dictionary(which is the only place I find womansplain): man·splain manˈsplān/Submit verbinformal gerund or present participle: mansplaining (of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing. "I'm listening to a guy mansplain economics to his wife" Now tell us again how mansplaining isn't a thing? All I did was do a simple Google search for both terms, and it appears that it was added to Merriam-Webster just this past March, which now makes it a legitimate thing. Oh, and in case anyone hasn't seen this article yet, just read it, it includes a full response from MO and more anecdotes from JP: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/9/17549492/arenanet-jessica-price-guild-wars-2-writer-fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoyoko.7309 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Mike O’brien issued another statement in the second polygon article, putting it here if you don’t want to give them clicks. “Jessica had identified herself as an ArenaNet employee on Reddit and Twitter, had been discussing Episode 3 storytelling with fans on Reddit, then had written a 25-part tweet about how we tell stories in MMOs, relating it back to Episode 3. She was representing the company. The expectation was to behave professionally and respectfully, or at least walk away. Instead, she attacked. Concerns have been publicly raised that she was responding to harassment. It’s not my place to tell employees when they should or shouldn’t feel harassed. In this case, however, our employees could have chosen not to engage, and they could have brought the issue to the company, whereby we would have done everything we could to protect them. We won’t tolerate harassment. When an employee feels harassed, we want them to bring the issue to us, so that we can protect the employee, deal with the issue, and use it to speak to the larger issue of harassment. Whatever Jessica and Peter felt internally about the situation, this was objectively a customer engaging us respectfully and professionally, presenting a suggestion for our game. Any response from our company needed to be respectful and professional. A perceived slight doesn’t give us license to attack. We’ve all dedicated our careers to entertaining people, to making games for the purpose of delighting those who play them. We generally have a wonderful relationship with our community, and that’s a point of pride for us. We want to hear from our players. It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company — in this case a polite game suggestion — would be met with open hostility and derision from us. That sets a chilling precedent. The tweets were made on July 4, when the studio was closed for the holiday. We were aware of them that day, and decided we’d need to take action in the morning. The fact that the community’s anger was escalating on July 5 could make it look like our action was a response to the community’s anger. But that wasn’t the case. We took action as soon as we practicably could. I hate to let an employee go, and I wish the best for Jessica and Peter, as for any former employee, in whatever they choose to do next. Whatever you thought of the tweets, Jessica and Peter were also part of the team that brought you the kidnapping scene in Episode 1, which was a wonderfully well-executed scene. That’s how I want to remember their time at ArenaNet.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > Lol once again you have shown us you simply have no idea what your talking about.. you don't need to be PR to represent your company.. and there I was re-reading that part you told us you know how business works earlier in the thread. > As I said back then, start your business, employee people, launch your product and then aske your employees to act and say the kind of stuff to any of your client base either directly face to face in a bar out of work or like JP did over the interweebs.. see how far your company grows.. make sure you ask PR to explain what PR actually is though. > > Of course when you talk about free speech.. yep we all have it, but what was that me ole ma once said... manners cost nothing and act responsibly. Apparently you are missing the whole point of me pointing out Greek history, there was a time when people where allowed to say anything, without repercussions, but tit didn't last long and we've been fighting about ever since. If I ran a business, I would NOT tell my employees how to act or what to say on their own free time, but I damned well would make sure that every client knows my employees are allowed to have PERSONAL lives in which they can think and do as they wish. You know, separate your work life from your personal life, but unfortunately 99% of people just can't grasp that concept, it's just to much for their simpleton thinking to comprehend, because they have to be handheld all the time and think that words are going to hurt them. I have news for you, words never hurt anyone, and if they did it's because the person being told the words couldn't just ignore them and realize that the only person whose opinion of them that matters is themselves. As in what I think of myself is all that matters, what Joe Blow and Jane Doe think of me is irrelevant. Here's something you might not guess from my posts, I work with the public every f'ing day, a not just a few dozen, but I literally interact with 100's of people on a daily basis, and the majority of them don't follow instructions or just appear to be complete idiots...and I hate dealing with idiots. You know what else, I'm not always nice to them, I will berate them, sometimes I raise my voice at them...and I don't care, they complain, I get talked to and back to business as usual. Because my job is thankless and stressful and I know my job a thousands times better than the general public, unless it happens to be someone that does the exact same job I do, but they don't always follow the rules either. I also do not care what they think of me, because most likely I'll never see them again, and if it makes the rest of my co-workers look bad, or the agency, don't care about that either. I'm not there to cater to your every need, I'm not there to make you happy, I'm there to do a job and if your acting stupid hinders that, then expect to be treated like it. P.S. - Public Relations, usually shortened to PR, in which you can get a degree and a job, it is those peoples jobs to make sure the public is happy, aka spin doctors. **P.P.S. - Does everyone forget that ArenaNet is still 100% owned by NCSoft, even if they have been given more autonomy on this project?** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrolan.9608 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 MOB's Polygon statement still doesn't address exactly why Peter Was fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruine.8510 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Harper.4173" said: > > If I was wrong prove me wrong - show us how much you play/have played the game. Show us you're part of the community. You can't do that can you? That's why you won't reply to me nor will you address this if you will. I started GW2 the beginning of the year. I purchased HoT little later. I believe I made a post asking a question. I quit for a time purchasing the deluxe version of the core game after returning and had just purchased PoF just a few weeks ago. I started a warrior in the beginning which was the reason for leaving as I didn't find the game anything but frustrating. He was level 80 by the time I had quit having completed his personal story. Once returning I used the daily rewards to get a thief to level 80 but actually started focusing on a level 80 mesmer which I had completed the personal story with about a month before this. I've extra character slots purchased with all the classes represented and all the races at various levels. I've purchased some extra bag space and bank tabs. But you are right. I am not part of this community. I do not believe two developers deserve the same punishment for separate crimes. I don't believe a company that throws away a twelve year veteran who was probably a big reason for you being able to even have a second game based on your first has any interest in its player base. That is the person I see wronged in this. I see him wronged by Jessica Price in allowing him to think she was receiving some kind of an attack when she wasn't. And wronged again by his employer who knows him personally, probably someone he thought a friend, would think he would act just like her. And should know him well enough to know that's not really him. But no, Reddit wants your head so my dear friend your head they shall have. I was wrong about this community when I told a poster it wasn't toxic a few weeks ago. It may be attracting unwanted toxicity from the outside now but it was always rotten to the core. It just needed a little push to show it. That its just as vindictive and destructive. Just as willing to pile on to someone because he tried to be supportive to someone that might never should have been hired in the first place. Like others have said, its suspect JP was fired at this time for the same behavior displayed previously as well as a long term member of the company because Reddit was involved. He should be brought back and new internet policy developed as well as providing the funds to pay for all employees internet services. And MO should hope when Reddit targets him that he actually does have friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotsofnothing.7385 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Dang, guess I know what game I'm uninstalling now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"morrolan.9608" said: > MOB's Polygon statement still doesn't address exactly why Peter Was fired. Yeah, nor does it counter anything Jessica had said. It sounds very hastily CYA'd. I'm hearing protecting employees, but not seeing it. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evon Skyfyre.9673 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > Lol once again you have shown us you simply have no idea what your talking about.. you don't need to be PR to represent your company.. and there I was re-reading that part you told us you know how business works earlier in the thread. > > As I said back then, start your business, employee people, launch your product and then aske your employees to act and say the kind of stuff to any of your client base either directly face to face in a bar out of work or like JP did over the interweebs.. see how far your company grows.. make sure you ask PR to explain what PR actually is though. > > > > Of course when you talk about free speech.. yep we all have it, but what was that me ole ma once said... manners cost nothing and act responsibly. > > Apparently you are missing the whole point of me pointing out Greek history, there was a time when people where allowed to say anything, without repercussions, but kitten didn't last long and we've been fighting about ever since. If I ran a business, I would NOT tell my employees how to act or what to say on their own free time, but I damned well would make sure that every client knows my employees are allowed to have PERSONAL lives in which they can think and do as they wish. You know, separate your work life from your personal life, but unfortunately 99% of people just can't grasp that concept, it's just to much for their simpleton thinking to comprehend, because they have to be handheld all the time and think that words are going to hurt them. I have news for you, words never hurt anyone, and if they did it's because the person being told the words couldn't just ignore them and realize that the only person whose opinion of them that matters is themselves. As in what I think of myself is all that matters, what Joe Blow and Jane Doe think of me is irrelevant. > > Here's something you might not guess from my posts, I work with the public every kitten day, a not just a few dozen, but I literally interact with 100's of people on a daily basis, and the majority of them don't follow instructions or just appear to be complete idiots...and I hate dealing with idiots. You know what else, I'm not always nice to them, I will berate them, sometimes I raise my voice at them...and I don't care, they complain, I get talked to and back to business as usual. Because my job is thankless and stressful and I know my job a thousands times better than the general public, unless it happens to be someone that does the exact same job I do, but they don't always follow the rules either. I also do not care what they think of me, because most likely I'll never see them again, and if it makes the rest of my co-workers look bad, or the agency, don't care about that either. I'm not there to cater to your every need, I'm not there to make you happy, I'm there to do a job and if your acting stupid hinders that, then expect to be treated like it. > > P.S. - Public Relations, usually shortened to PR, in which you can get a degree and a job, it is those peoples jobs to make sure the public is happy, aka spin doctors. > > **P.P.S. - Does everyone forget that ArenaNet is still 100% owned by NCSoft, even if they have been given more autonomy on this project?** We're not back to Greece at its golden age. Besides, not everything was nice during that period, if you know what i mean. Can't just take the good while forgetting the bad. 99% don't grasp your concept and that's a good thing, because it's a silly concept. Given the description of your job and how you treat customer, you obviously don't work in this specific industry. If you ever do though, please make your company and see how long people are gonna stay around and give you money if you behave like you're behaving in your current job. This is the kind of claims one can only make when they have no idea how to do business. Also. You can have a personal life. I have one, I just use a anon account, I don't associate myself to my company when I want to talk freely. It's really dishonest (and why I don't even feel sorry for her) that she keeps pulling that excuse. When you work in this industry, you know that you become a figure of reference, especially if you associate yourself with your company. It comes with advantages and inconvenients. Don't blame the rules of the game after breaking them. Really. There's no real ground for your defense here. Ultimately it doesn't matter how you think this company should treat its customer. It's not up to you. You sign something when you get a job, you're expected to stick to it. If you'd rather be rude to people you don't like, you can get any job that doesn't require that. You basically confirm that it was a good decision, no company valuing their customers would want to keep people that aren't working in the interest of their clients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 anyone made characters named "muh dude" or "disagree slightly" yet? Oh, and Dear Anet. I am still gonna play your game, and buy gems. Thanks for having our back. /.salt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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