GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Cyrin.1035]

> @"fizzypetal.7936" said:

> > @"Cyrin.1035" said:

> > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > > I feel a sorry for Peter Fries here. I fail to see a reason to boot him as well, he just defended a colleague there.

> >

> > *See many other posts that explain the PF issue clearly. He chose his outcome. Deserves no sympathy whatsoever. I feel sorry for his team that he betrayed.

>

> Gotta admit, I feel empathy towards PF's family. I can only imagine the stress this has caused for them all. Can you imagine having to go home to your partner and say you've been fired and why? Can you imagine being his partner and having to recieve and process that information? OMG. Horrific. Don't know if PF was the main bread winner or not...I do hope not for the sake of his family.

>

> The fact that PF has behaved a gentleman after the fact, will hopefully bode well for quickly securing the present and the future for him and his family.

 

Apparently, you thought more about his family than he did when he made his choice. That should have been what prevented him from his decision. That "gentleman" never apologized or expressed any remorse over his actions. Gratitude, but no real care for how he treated the playerbase or let his team down. Maybe they could use his help at the office right now, but he removed himself from it. Was JP worth it, PF?

[Cyrin.1035]

> @"Jukhy.2431" said:

> I truly hope that some day Jessica grows past this immature phase in her life.

 

This is no phase. This is who she is and is proud to be. What a waste of talent.

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"cnyranger.9074" said:

> This was not an issue of sexism, it was an issue of professionalism. I have nearly 20 years of experience in various levels of management and sales for a large company. In any industry other than gaming not only would Jessica and Peter have been fired but the trade blogs and press outlets that covered the industry would have validated it. If you represent yourself in your social media as an employee of a company, then you are acting as a public face of that company. It's a well understood no brainer. Attempting to deflect responsibility by adding in some sort of disclaimer that it is your 'private' account does not fly. If it is your private account, do not represent yourself as an employee, do not discuss the specifics of your employment or employer on the account.

 

The thing is, Peter getting fired isn't even important to any of those "gaming media outlets", they only focus on Jessica because she is a woman. It's their way of attracting people who might believe she was fired based on her gender alone and agree with their bad articles. We've even seen it in this thread, about players posting how they unnistalled the game because women rights aren't being respected by Arenanet (lol) Obviously people who never bothered to read what actually happened. Otherwise Peter's story would get an equal coverage, but it doesn't. Moreover, when a Bioware employee was fired because of Twitter posts, same as Jessica, she was also fired because of Twitter posts, the gaming outlets didn't even cover it.

 

The important part for those gaming media is that a woman was fired, not that an employee was fired.

A man gets fired for what he posted on Twitter? Nobody cares.

A woman gets fired for what she posted on Twitter? Sexism, women working conditions, violations, harassment, social rights, gender inequality and so on.

 

> Gaming and gamers deserve media that researches, presents facts, and accurately reports in support of the consumer. Right now we don't have that.

SO TRUE!

[fizzypetal.7936]

> @"Cyrin.1035" said:

> > @"fizzypetal.7936" said:

> > > @"Cyrin.1035" said:

> > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > > > I feel a sorry for Peter Fries here. I fail to see a reason to boot him as well, he just defended a colleague there.

> > >

> > > *See many other posts that explain the PF issue clearly. He chose his outcome. Deserves no sympathy whatsoever. I feel sorry for his team that he betrayed.

> >

> > Gotta admit, I feel empathy towards PF's family. I can only imagine the stress this has caused for them all. Can you imagine having to go home to your partner and say you've been fired and why? Can you imagine being his partner and having to recieve and process that information? OMG. Horrific. Don't know if PF was the main bread winner or not...I do hope not for the sake of his family.

> >

> > The fact that PF has behaved a gentleman after the fact, will hopefully bode well for quickly securing the present and the future for him and his family.

>

> Apparently, you thought more about his family than he did when he made his choice. That should have been what prevented him from his decision. That "gentleman" never apologized or expressed any remorse over his actions. Gratitude, but no real care for how he treated the playerbase or let his team down. Maybe they could use his help at the office right now, but he removed himself from it. Was JP worth it, PF?

 

In my mind, I was comparing PF's behaviour after the fact vs JP's. PF has not gone on to whomever will listen and continue to blame and slate his employer and playerbase, whereas JP has. To me, that is gentlemanly behaviour. :)

[Hawk.6274]

I'm glad they fired those two in all honesty. I am here to enjoy myself in a world that entertains me, I don't need your political views or gender views thrown in my face.

 

The fact of the matter is that Jessica Price lives in a bubble world, she doesn't see reality for what it is. She infact still can't see how bad her behavior really was, she is now claiming that this was all about her gender and many-many other things. All of which is being eaten up by fake news outlets like polygon, kotaku, and such. Jessica just cannot see reality and I hope she gets the mental help she needs. But based on what I seen her say, it seems like her mental illness is only going to get worse and worse. If she tries to work at another game company, which I doubt because this incident is just going to get blown up by her more and more until, eventually it just blows up in her face. The company will more than likely monitor what she says on twitter and then she'll get herself fired again because she's not in the right state of mind.

 

Remember when Totalbiscuit passed? her response to his passing was this:

The kindest thing I can say is "I'm glad he's no longer around to keep doing harm." https://t.co/W5klAk4avX

— Jessica Price (@Delafina777) May 25, 2018

 

And remember when Alison Rapp was fired from nintendo due to defending child pornography and her having a second job that wasn't family friendly? Her response to that was this:

@LewdStarKitten @BreedingSune GamerGate got a woman fired for being openly feminist. Now they're going after another one.

— Jessica Price (@Delafina777) April 5, 2016

 

There is more about her that I can post but I honestly don't want to bother. I'm a beta player for this game and I even pre-ordered this game. I still got the box and everything. I still enjoy this game to some degree and hope that arenanet can just leave this person who has serious mental issues to her own devises. Those that have been defending her in this forum and on other platform don't seem to have done their research about who they are exactly defending here and I implore those people to actually do the research on who they are defending here.

 

That's all I will say on this matter, i'm off to go play some gw2 now.

 

 

[Saelenthi.5720]

> @"Dengar.1785" said:

> > @"Cryoguard.7942" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Rococo.8347" said:

> > > > > @"Cryoguard.7942" said:

> > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > > @"ponytheguardian.7439" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So are the 43 pages of people mostly defending Anet all "mobs" and not the players?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also, you do realize that each account profile shows the date of creation in their profile right? Isn't it a bit strange for someone who just joined to know better who are the players?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do know that. With thousands of hours in GW1 and hours in GW2 climbing, I could say I've been around here even before I created this forum account.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And yes. Angry mobs of players who don't like some certain people or how they talk to their "gods", might go out there and escalate the drama even further to get what they want. Kitten as in GG hasn't gone anywhere. It's only evolved in a way that now it's targeting not only journalistic professionals, but also professionals anywhere.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And all the members are not even Poorchan-crew.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only people I see escalating the drama are those who refuse to see how one employee's behavior was unnacceptable and try to twist that into somewhat a wrong-doing from an evil community.

> > > > > > All these journalistic professionals are failing to represent situation from both angles and instead choose to be one sided. So yeah. Sorry but its a bit easy to blame a community over this. The "wips" like WP are the only one so far actually presenting the problem as it happened.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would suggest looking into more of the Twitter feeds regarding people outside the initial interaction, and it will give you a brief glimpse into the life of female game developers. The amount of blatantly sexist remarks being made by individuals reveals what these devs deal with constantly and often don't tell us. You don't need access to archives of psychological research to tell that it takes an impact, and this was apparently the breaking point.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sure she could have handled it better. And sure devs get toxic remarks in general. But female game devs definitely get their unfair share of toxic backlash, and oftentimes the criticism is purely based on sex and not even the work they do. As a result, this has really opened up a can of worms that ANet can't close now. All we can hope for is a more established response in the coming days better detailing their thoughts and plans moving forward.

> > > >

> > > > This is what's bothering me immensely, I may not agree with how she conveyed herself and would have been shocked if I had been on the receiving end myself, but the one blind spot even people like WP seem to have in all of this is that there is some aspects of sexism in this, many many comments on reddit ( and here) over that 24 hours were casually or blatantly sexist, some dodgy subs that dont give a fig about GW2 took interest and joined in, and frankly the reddit community appeared to accept them in. And now they are all crying that games journo's are claiming there was a hunt when there wasn't.

> > > >

> > > > There was a witch hunt and the reddit community fanned the flames - no matter how biased their reporting, there is no way this should have got the amount of heat that it did, the biggest outrage in the community for 7 years is some dev having a pop at a content maker - really??

> > > >

> > > > And if we are going to talk about a blatant disregard for the fact that sexism does exist in gaming ( and everywhere else) even WP makes a breast joke about clearly being a woman because he has to take heat from commentators sometimes, as if the occasional grief he gets is the same as the death threats and kitten threats, to say nothing of the second guessing etc they have to put up with, as if GG was a completely baseless.

> > > >

> > > > Just because the original comment from Deroir was likely not based in sexism doesn't mean that this whole clusterkitten is squeaky clean.

> > >

> > > All of this is after the initial exchange though. Please also realize that this is one of the first stories about GW2 which has gone mainstream in years. There is a ton of youtubers which are way bigger than WP who have covered this story. The heavily biased Kotaku and Polygon articles (interesting how the mainstream media diverges so much from a majority of the youtube content creators) will not have helped either. That is not so say that the first hour trolls did not have their feast.

> > >

> > > Please also do not lump together honest fans with trolls. The responses from JP were always addressed towards actual fans. She was the one who brought in the entire sexism issue (needlessly if one might add) and she was the one to use terminology as "mansplaining and rando kittten".

> > >

> > > > @"Rococo.8347" said:

> > > > There was a witch hunt and the reddit community fanned the flames - no matter how biased their reporting, there is no way this should have got the amount of heat that it did, the biggest outrage in the community for 7 years is some dev having a pop at a content maker - really??

> > >

> > > If it makes the mainstream, having a developer mistreat a client is big news. There is no sugar coating this no matter how much you point at the big bad work environment which is so unfair to women. That's like all those excuses made when once again an innocent black man gets shot in the US by police. "Oh but we had to go by previous experiences and he was acting suspicious ." Treat every encounter as it's own and stop making excuses. Everything else is unprofessional.

> > >

> > > Just like JPs tweet about TB was of not that big an issue. Once pushed into the spotlight it became an issue.

> >

> > I think that is something a lot of people forget in the heat of the moment. Most of the fans are better than this. As people call it in politics, "the silent majority." It's a shame to see a tiny group of vocal players with nasty opinions try and take advantage of this. I am currently not a fan of her Twitter feed after having seen some of her tweets, and I find it quite disappointing she was extremely hostile in this scenario. But the result of this fiasco has had a ripple effect in the industry that has to be addressed, ironically worsening the problem she was so opposed to.

>

> I really fail to see which problem is ‘getting worse’ though. There have always been kittens on the internet... And now there are still kittens on the internet... So... Nothing has changed?

>

> And if we’re talking about a ‘precedent’ of people getting fired for bad PR, that was set many years ago. Again, no change.

 

Guild Wars has a great community, with the vast majority treating women "right", be it dev or fellow gamer. The amount of sexist remarks Ive had to deal with in gw2 is extremely low, and even then Ive always had someone stepping in and supporting me. Ive got to tell you, this is very rare. In other communities Ive had to deal with everything from being talked down to, over getting told that something isnt for me because Im a woman, to outright hostility when I was more successful at something.

So yes, sexism is still a huge problem in online gaming.

 

Sadly, everytime now a woman brings forward a valid case of sexism, JPs accusations will be the first thing to spring to everyones mind. The reactions will then of course be different. Less supporting/understanding, more condemning than they would have been before this whole debacle. It makes it more difficult to come forward or to defend, because you could always also be let go and feel the full wrath of the internet, if you dont have absolutely waterproof evidence you really were target of sexism.

 

edit:

I feel I have to make this clear: I think Mike OBrien handled the whole thing as well as he could in the situation he was put in. Chapeau to so much professionalism.

[ponytheguardian.7439]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> > @"ponytheguardian.7439" said:

> > Hi it me, your friendly ~~neighbour~~ new guy! /wave

> >

> > [Pony The Guardian / GW2 EU](https://i.imgur.com/fpTLUiR.jpg)

> > [Tjanz Firenze / GW2 NA](https://i.imgur.com/epbnQNt.jpg)

> > [Aikiko Kuwahari / GW1 acc1](https://i.imgur.com/zYoHvyc.jpg)

> > [beautyful Bloodvein / GW1 acc2](https://i.imgur.com/7qwqo0E.jpg)

> >

> > Am sorry, I just had to...

> That's cool - it's exactly what I wanted - except none of the screens show your account name. I find it highly improbable that someone would give the game this much time and then never post on the forums. I mean - that type of player exists - but they don't just start posting out of the blue. I know players who play a lot and don't post - they really never post.

>

> Would you mind showing a link between this form account and your GW2 accounts?

>

You do realise that you can only link one in-game account to a one forum account, right? I don't personally believe it does anything to you, nor would it be necessary to even give you this info.

 

But just for the record, here is screens from my character selection: [GW2 NA](https://imgur.com/PFTjEyf) & [GW2 EU](https://imgur.com/Ba6WG6m)

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Stengah.6102" said:

> I agree, seeing kitten 2.0 (right down to the "ethics in games journalism" BS) take root here has drastically altered my perception of the GW2 community.

 

Did it ever occur to you that it's because that journalism is extremely slanted ?

 

I'm all for supporting equal rights for everyone of all walks of life, but there's a problem when you try to make yourself out to be the victim in a situation where you're actually the perpetrator and victimized someone else.

 

I'd ask you to first read the unaltered still public posted tweets and tell me that you see what's being reported, because if you do that speaks to how blurred your passion is for these social issues. Not every issue is as this case clearly showed about gender. This was an inquisitive person politely speaking to someone who, is more educated than they are in this particular matter and asking if perhaps there was more to it than it just being what her opinion had lead her to conclude.

 

 

[mixxed.5862]

I just watched a certain youtuber Y... lay out his thoughts about what happened on July 4th. I disagree with his analysis and see the events from another angle myself. Even though my point of view is clearly unpopular, there may be a few founded reflections in here. So please hear me out, even though I'll start on a harsh tone:

 

I'm disgusted by how a part of this community reacted to JP's tweets, calling for her to be fired and being genuinely happy about it afterwards. To me it's simply inconceivable how so many could overreact like that to blow this matter this massively out of proportion.

 

Let me explain why I'm shocked by the way so many reacted: It was terrible not only because she was treated in an openly disrespectful manner (some even were offensive and upvoted for it). No, to me it seemed like most didn't even give her the benefit of the doubt, that EVERYONE deserves: That she is a decent person as well. Because if you're reading her comment by that "assumption", it's evident that she called out a comment she perceived as being sexist, and not playing the shame game. I believe that anyone who realized this to then reread Deroir's comment being worded the unfortunate way it was and given the context (her personal twitter page, etc. see below) would have arrived at the conclusion his comment definitely could be misunderstood as being condescending - possibly deriving from subtle sexism.

 

I'll lay out the events step by step and annotate what it probably looked like from **her** perspective, plus my thoughts:

 

**1)** She posts a long, well thought out comment explaining why they present the player character in GW2 the way they do. - Which is to the state of the art in the MMORPG genre.

 

**2)** A fan chimes in to comment: "Really interesting thread to read! ? However, allow me to disagree * slightly *." To then suggest the implementation of something as basic as branching dialogue. - With the OKAY emoticon and the * * I think this can easily be misread as being belittling. The tone is set for his following advice: Seemingly given under the assumption that she, as a dev of the narrative team, was completely ignorant. This is what you'll take from Deroir's comment if you assume there's more to it than just the purely factual layer. Given the fact it was posted on her personal twitter account in the outlined context, reading it as a personal slight is not really a stretch. However she should have been aware of her role as a representative of ArenaNet - her twitter profile was set to public after all!

 

Do you believe the massive shitstorm that reddit brought over JP was warranted?

Then ? But how about you, superbrain, allow me to disagree * slightly * ... (please excuse the paraphrasing)

 

Let me elaborate:

It's in our nature to ask ourselves: What does him(her) talking the way he(she) does tell about his(her) opinion of me? This interpretation happens subconciously and plays an important role in all of our social interactions (see: four-sides model of communication). Therefore she may have perceived the comment along the lines of "I think you're incompetent, so here's how you do it, gurl".

Overt sexism isn't broadly tolerated anymore, instead it shows in more subtle ways, like a male colleague assuming an equally qualified female co-worker as naturally being less competent. Why shouldn't she be upset about it?

Rationality, objectivity and competence are still regarded as typical male attributes by a whole lot of people. Thus women wrongfully being considered less competent than they really are is a VERY common symptom of sexism in our society. This happens even despite them having years of professional expertise. I think it's infuriating! It unmistakably IS sexism, although in a more subtle way and therefore in many cases hard to discern. A valid means of defense the victim has against this kind of sexism is calling out the aggressor.

Was she right assuming sexist motivations? Certainly not, as she doesn't know the youtuber personally and it wasn't but a written comment. But she felt offended anyhow. She shouldn't be disregarded just for being frustrated about (what she perceived to be) yet another macho trying to teach her how to do her job! She's made that experience before - like many women working in male-dominated occupations have.

 

**3)** So she's under the impression some macho is treating her in a condescending way and she posts a snappy response. She calls out the (perceived) sexist in another twitter post and then she goes on to voice her indignation about "rando asshats" in general that feel the need to teach her about branching dialogue as if she - with a DECADE of professional expertise - never heard of it. - This emotional outburst will get her fired. Here is where she missteps. It just didn't appear to her that Deroir's suggestion was born from naivety and the excitement over the chance of engaging her into a discussion. People that don't grasp where she's coming from will ask themselves: Is she just pointlessly attacking Deroir for the fun of it, playing the shame game to shut up a critic or did she genuinely perceive to be treated in a sexist way?

Is it just her frustration about know-all macho fans speaking? Or is she this arrogant to tell the fans they have no right to criticize her and make suggestions because they're just not knowledgeable enough?

I'll go with the conjecture that she's a decent person as well and simply was really frustrated. But choose whatever fits your narrative!

 

**4)** Deroir then replies she didn't need to get mad because it was obvious he just attempted to create dialogue and discussion, which is disheartening. He then writes "I'm sorry if it offended. I'll leave you to it." - This is not a proper apology. He denies the possibility that his comment could arguably be understood as offensive, but if she read it as sth it clearly is not: Sorry anyways. For example a sincere apology would have been as simple as: "I'm sorry I offended you. My comment wasn't meant to be disrespectful." without all that talk of "obvious" and "disheartening" beforehand. This wouldn't dismiss the possibility of partially being to blame for the misunderstanding as well. It would properly acknowledge and legitimize her feeling offended. Deroir's apology was formulated in a polite enough way but had the emotional scope of a "uh, sorry you feel that way, I guess". It mocked her. I'm genuinely convinced that Deroir meant to apologize, and not play her hurt feelings down acting know-all. The issue was: He admired her and was upset about her reaction. But in any case there was no need for her to "apologize" as well.

 

**5)** Someone makes a reddit post about it, points the finger her way for calling out Deroir's comment - that she clearly had perceived as patronizing - and a hundred starved Morlocks hungering for blood and female genitalia emerge. The most moderate ones get worked up about her pointlessly aggressive reply to such a polite person. The more savage ones lunge right at her to openly harass and defame because there's not an ounce of humanity left in them. (This is satire, please don't take it to heart.)

 

**6)** The rest of her tweets has to be seen in this context: She ridicules them talking about their "hurt manfeels" and uses the unexpected publicity to speak out against fans that act like they have some entitlement to her personal life. - This certainly wasn't clever. She acts in a disrespectful manner encouraging the public/reddit outrage to further escalate. She doesn't take the situation serious at all and is too stubborn to apologize. Even so, I thought her way of reacting was pretty entertaining.

 

So in my opinion her reactions were perfectly comprehensible - but unprofessional. A big part of the community jumped to the conclusion her response was a haughty act of aggression purely aimed at shutting up a critic, causing reddit to overheat! I don't want to argue whether her termination was warranted or not. A discussion about it is pretty moot anyways, because as far as I know in the US there is no law for protection against dismissal to speak of (I'm an utter layman and german btw). Certainly it wasn't entirely unwarranted that she was fired. But I don't agree with the people that believe MO proved his "moral integrity" in doing so. In fact: Quite the contrary. Business morale shouldn't be mistaken for a social value.

She simply shouldn't have replied to harsh criticism that she felt was condescending like a private person on her personal twitter account - set to public.

 

If I hadn't known Deroir from his twitch channel and some youtube videos as the friendly and respectful person that he is, I would have understood his comment as being disparaging as well. You are welcome to disagree, yet if you do, does that entitle you to publicly judge my personality?

And what if I assumed this condescending behavior stems from sexism, based on previous experiences I've made. Would you feel free to call me "one of the worst kind of people"? (quote: reddit) And if I felt the need to not leave it at that, to go on the offensive and call out the aggressor, would you partake in a public "witch hunt" to get me fired? (quote: reddit)

She took offence to one person's comment and reacted (inappropriately?!) to it! Yet a part of the community acted as if she had just insulted all of their mothers. Justified?

 

**Tldr:**

Through her impulsive tweets she had a big part in escalating the whole situation, more so, she was a main driving force with reddit being another. And seemingly she still doesn't admit to her share of the guilt, at least not to the full extent of it - she didn't just speak out only once but kept pushing it. She misjudged the situation and was stubborn to not yield when she still had the chance! However, I don't think she has the whole responsibility. The reddit community can't exactly be described as "innocent bystanders".

In any case I don't regard her as the "passive aggressive waste of a person" a big part of the community does. Many in the community embraced the idea, though, and partook in a crusade to get her fired. She didn't deserve that. Her's weren't "attacks on the community", her conviction was that she was calling out a brazenly macho and ridiculing abusive trolls.

The way I see it, all of this wasn't but a really unfortunate misunderstanding between two respectable people on the internet that was inflated through publicity till it burst. But maybe I'm being naive.

 

As for Peter being fired, there isn't much to talk about because in his case it's clear and simple:

It was an alarmingly unfair overreaction on MO's part. He worked at ArenaNet for 13 years! And all he did was trying to help out a colleague against an angry internet mob! I'm certain that in Germany his termination would be judicially revoked without much fuss.

[Harper.4173]

> @"ponytheguardian.7439" said:

> > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > > @"ponytheguardian.7439" said:

> > > Hi it me, your friendly ~~neighbour~~ new guy! /wave

> > >

> > > [Pony The Guardian / GW2 EU](https://i.imgur.com/fpTLUiR.jpg)

> > > [Tjanz Firenze / GW2 NA](https://i.imgur.com/epbnQNt.jpg)

> > > [Aikiko Kuwahari / GW1 acc1](https://i.imgur.com/zYoHvyc.jpg)

> > > [beautyful Bloodvein / GW1 acc2](https://i.imgur.com/7qwqo0E.jpg)

> > >

> > > Am sorry, I just had to...

> > That's cool - it's exactly what I wanted - except none of the screens show your account name. I find it highly improbable that someone would give the game this much time and then never post on the forums. I mean - that type of player exists - but they don't just start posting out of the blue. I know players who play a lot and don't post - they really never post.

> >

> > Would you mind showing a link between this form account and your GW2 accounts?

> >

> You do realise that you can only link one in-game account to a one forum account, right? I don't personally believe it does anything to you, nor would it be necessary to even give you this info.

>

> But just for the record, here is screens from my character selection: [GW2 NA](https://imgur.com/PFTjEyf) & [GW2 EU](https://imgur.com/Ba6WG6m)

 

I stand corrected - it seems you're not a fake account. Just a really a member of our community who enjoys defending people who should not be defended.

[Saelenthi.5720]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> I'm disgusted by how this community reacted to JP's tweets, calling for her to be fired

 

Proof?

[ponytheguardian.7439]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> > @"ponytheguardian.7439" said:

> > > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > > > @"ponytheguardian.7439" said:

> > > > Hi it me, your friendly ~~neighbour~~ new guy! /wave

> > > >

> > > > [Pony The Guardian / GW2 EU](https://i.imgur.com/fpTLUiR.jpg)

> > > > [Tjanz Firenze / GW2 NA](https://i.imgur.com/epbnQNt.jpg)

> > > > [Aikiko Kuwahari / GW1 acc1](https://i.imgur.com/zYoHvyc.jpg)

> > > > [beautyful Bloodvein / GW1 acc2](https://i.imgur.com/7qwqo0E.jpg)

> > > >

> > > > Am sorry, I just had to...

> > > That's cool - it's exactly what I wanted - except none of the screens show your account name. I find it highly improbable that someone would give the game this much time and then never post on the forums. I mean - that type of player exists - but they don't just start posting out of the blue. I know players who play a lot and don't post - they really never post.

> > >

> > > Would you mind showing a link between this form account and your GW2 accounts?

> > >

> > You do realise that you can only link one in-game account to a one forum account, right? I don't personally believe it does anything to you, nor would it be necessary to even give you this info.

> >

> > But just for the record, here is screens from my character selection: [GW2 NA](https://imgur.com/PFTjEyf) & [GW2 EU](https://imgur.com/Ba6WG6m)

>

> I stand corrected - it seems you're not a fake account. Just a really a member of our community who enjoys defending people who should not be defended.

Lets just say that I'm not the one jumping on some random trains filled with different groups of people and make my own observations. Just for the recap, my thoughts how I still think: [First](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/591726#Comment_591726 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/591726#Comment_591726"), [second](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/591738#Comment_591738 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/591738#Comment_591738"), [third](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/591748#Comment_591748 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/591748#Comment_591748")

[Harper.4173]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

If you say that you're a feminist or a strong women, people give the benefit of the doubt and assume the best of those titles.

 

And that's where people are wrong. Those titles might have meant something remotely positive maybe 20 or 30 years ago. Today as far as I see it they're a massive red flag. And by that I mean that statistically speaking - you have very good odds of finding someone who's completely unreasonable label themselves as such. Better odds than finding a decent human being.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm biased but as far as I've seen it - it seems to be the case. I guess all the normal people are more quiet and don't need to make everything into their personal crusade?

[mixxed.5862]

> @"Saelenthi.5720" said:

> > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > I'm disgusted by how this community reacted to JP's tweets, calling for her to be fired

>

> Proof?

 

Alright, fixed it for you. It by far weren't all. And if you weren't there for the initial outburst: Most of the more audacious comments were removed from reddit later on. But they were amongst the most popular.

But as an example: Just read a few of the comments on page 1

[RoseofGilead.8907]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> And that's where people are wrong. Those titles might have meant something remotely positive maybe 20 or 30 years ago. Today as far as I see it they're a massive red flag. And by that I mean that statistically speaking - you have very good odds of finding someone who's completely unreasonable label themselves as such. Better odds than finding a decent human being.

> Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm biased but as far as I've seen it - it seems to be the case. I guess all the normal people are more quiet and don't need to make everything into their personal crusade?

 

Yes, that does sound biased.

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

One thing is glaringly obvious here, no matter what side of this debacle you favor, the powers that be here cannot or will not end this thread. It should have been locked after MB made his reply. Clearly the punishment hasn't been strong enough and more is required. What could possibly be said or added that hasn't been said over and over. The various "news" agencies around the net are reading it and using it to create articles they will release over the next few weeks, restating, rehashing ad nauseum. Funny thing is, in game I haven't heard a peep about it. I doubt those more interested in playing the game care.

 

I guess this could be a warning to the Anet employees, "If you do the same, this is what you can expect".

[Israel.7056]

> @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said:

> I guess this could be a warning to the Anet employees, "If you do the same, this is what you can expect".

 

Just lets them know they should think before they tweet.

 

 

[Savre.7932]

It's baffling to me that there are so many people trying to spin this as some sort of right vs left thing. She spoke inappropriately and had also done so in the past.

 

What we should be worried about is that these online video game journalists are trying to paint us all as misogynist neck beards. They are literally saying that us and a "reddit mob" are the cause of her firing. If that were true she would have been fired after the outrage of her comments about Total Biscuit. The truth is much more simple. She's just berated and typed profanities at someone who didn't deserve it while representing her company. Thus she was fired.

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

> @"Savre.7932" said:

> It's baffling to me that there are so many people trying to spin this as some sort of right vs left thing. She spoke inappropriately and had also done so in the past.

>

> What we should be worried about is that these online video game journalists are trying to paint us all as misogynist neck beards. They are literally saying that us and a "reddit mob" are the cause of her firing. If that were true she would have been fired after the outrage of her comments about Total Biscuit. The truth is much more simple. She's just berated and typed profanities at someone who didn't deserve it while representing her company. Thus she was fired.

 

Same in the Star Wars Fandom lately. If you didn't like TLJ or didn't go see Solo, you are a toxic fan and they go on an on, sell more ad space.

 

[Digit.1823]

> @"Cryoguard.7942" said:

> > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > @"Cryoguard.7942" said:

> > > > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > > > > @"Tris Apollumenon.6435" said:

> > > > > It's extremely upsetting to see how willing Anet was to throw employees to the mob -- not only was there absolutely no move to speak out against the detailed, sexually explicit abuse that the employees received, but the employees in question were _fired_?

> > > > >

> > > > > The massive response to this by Gamergaters already underscored the hostility of this environment. The **official statement** from Mike himself, stating that a single unprofessionally snarky Twitter thread expressing frustration at being habitually belittled = "attacking the community", only makes it clear that in Anet's eyes, whatever "the community" means, I don't count. Playtime, enthusiasm, time spent helping new players, money spent on gems and DLCs -- arguments could be made for any of those as factors toward being in a given community, but in this case it seems like the overriding definition is "Community == I want devs to be INSTANTLY FIRED the first time they make a frustrated comment in public or back up their colleagues".

> > > > >

> > > > > I was willing to Block And Move On for ages and ages, even as a WvW player having to deal with tons of teamchat trolls and having to do another blockathon every time a new world alliance rolls around. MMO online communities are hard to moderate, and I recognize that. But having this edict come from above, as an official ArenaNet statement from the top guy himself, that's damning. That hurts.

> > > > >

> > > > > I know the kitten troll types are all too happy for people like me to get out of their games, but like... games are supposed to be fun. This was my _hobby_, not some kind of activist crusade. I'm too old and tired to stick it out to Make A Statement or Fight The Good Fight when even the top authority is saying "You are not welcome here. Harassers and misogynists, _you_ are welcome." More power to those who are determined or thick-skinned enough to persevere. I don't think I can.

> > > >

> > > > You stop right there you unfair, disingenuous hack that you are. You unbelievable charlatan.

> > > >

> > > > There was NEVER any sort of "detailed, sexually explicit abuse" anywhere in the ENTIRE exchange from Deroir's side which sparked this fiasco. You have CLEARLY not read a single word of the twitter conversation that instigated this. He was AT ALL TIMES friendly, polite and merely looking for discussion with someone whom he GREATLY respected and admired, and even apologized profusely when Jessica Price blew off her handle against him which was totally uncalled for. There have literally been twitch clips posted of him in this thread where he expresses his immense admiration for Jessica Price, her work and her contribution to AMA's.

> > > >

> > > > You are the lowest of the low, spouting the utter bs that you just did. Get out of this thread and do some actual research before you even dare to think twice about coming back here you disingenuous liar. Get out!

> > >

> > > I think you missed the part where they didn't say the sexually explicit abuse came from the streamer. While I personally don't agree with how the situation was handled by Price, the disgusting amount of abuse female developers face was already bad before now, but it's easy to tell from a quick glance at Twitter it has escalated dramatically. Deroir was likely commenting in the wrong place at the wrong time as it were, and the mob of toxic trolls who crawled to the surface to take advantage of that are the real villains here. And the messages being sent to Fries and Price only cements this as the key issue.

> > >

> > > Granted I don't think your anger-fueled response to someone who was trying to put this into the bigger-picture perspective is... ahem... healthy. In fact, somewhat similar to Price's response to Deroir, though I think there's much more context behind her's than your's.

> >

> > Except if you took any time to actually read his comment you would instantly notice he is talking about the situation where JP got fired, it is literally the end of his first sentence. Which given the situation can be clearly understood that he's mentioning the **recent** events that caused JP to be removed from the company (rightly so) because of the twitter exchange. And i thought you were so hot for context?

> >

> > To call that exchange "detailed, sexually explicit abuse" is the greatest lie i have yet to see in this thread.

> >

> > But i will humor you, show me where the supposed "detailed, sexually explicit abuse" came from BEFORE Deroir's twitter exchange with JP. I am very curious because, in fact, so far JP herself is the only one who has shown a severe amount of sexism in the form of misandry. Her mistrust in and disdain for the male gender is rampant if you took the time to actually look through her post history. There have been excellent summaries of her exchanges with other Guild Wars partners that come to mind, Jebro's exchange with her over the Infinity War movie is a prime example of her warped way of thinking. It's literally cringe worthy, Infinity War might not be the best movie in existence but to call Thanos a "pseudo-kitten" (edit: don't know if it shows or not, but apperantly we cannot mention a certain german gentlemen who had a big hand in WW2) and the movie itself having "cheap holocaust metaphors" can only come from the mental workings of a lunatic:

> >

> >

> >

> > Let's continue on, also take a look at the following what Tris says shall we?

> >

> > "The **official statement** from Mike himself, stating that a single unprofessionally snarky Twitter thread expressing frustration at being habitually belittled = "attacking the community"

> >

> > So let's start getting this straight here, her _single_ twitter thread (which is another great lie, since there were obviously multiple threads, against more then 1 person where she was unprofessionally rude against pretty much everyone) where she expressed frustration at Deroir's polite attempt at conversation with someone who we have learned he greatly admired. You can literally read that she is not mentioning anything about any sort of previous "habitual belittlement" but she is expressing clear disdain over this single situation. And then yes, sure, other people come in and she also starts being incredibly rude to them.

> >

> > Granted I don't think your extreme lack of reading comprehension and failure to actually read into the context of someone who was trying to put this into the "bigger-picture perspective" (basically lie) is... ahem... healthy. In fact, somewhat similar to Price's response to Deroir, though i think you also missed a lot of context in that situation too given that you still somewhat blame Deroir for this. Like really? Being in the wrong place and wrong time has got nothing to do with the instant amount of flak he got from JP, who immediately pulled the gender card, from simply trying to have a meaningful conversation with someone who he thought the world of.

> >

> > P.s. i will leave Deroir's post-situation thoughts here for you to ponder over. Look at this clip, skip to around 4:40 and listen....listen very carefully, lest you miss any of that juicy context: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8wnkw8/deroirs_response_to_the_incident/

> >

> > P.p.s. Just to give you more of that juicy context you're so hot for, here is what he thought of Jessica before the twitter fiasco: https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMistyStingrayDxCat

>

> Sorry for @-ing you twice as you seem to certainly not like me (ah well can't all be keepers) but in my case at least, this incident put Deroir on my radar as someone who does content creation for Guild Wars 2, and he certainly seems like someone I don't mind watching content for. And I sincerely hope that he is able to move forward from this and isn't the target of further attacks.

 

No, it's fine. I have been too heated in my own response, mainly because my blood was still boiling over the lies i addressed in the post of the other forum user. My apologies.

 

Have fun watching Deroir, he makes great content.

[Nemmar.8491]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> I just watched a certain youtuber Y... lay out his thoughts about what happened on July 4th. I disagree with his analysis and see the events from another angle myself. Even though my point of view is clearly unpopular, there may be a few founded reflections in here. So please hear me out, even though I'll start on a harsh tone:

>

> I'm disgusted by how a part of this community reacted to JP's tweets, calling for her to be fired and being genuinely happy about it afterwards. To me it's simply inconceivable how so many could overreact like that to blow this matter this massively out of proportion.

>

> Let me explain why I'm shocked by the way so many reacted: It was terrible not only because she was treated in an openly disrespectful manner (some even were offensive and upvoted for it). No, to me it seemed like most didn't even give her the benefit of the doubt, that EVERYONE deserves: That she is a decent person as well. Because if you're reading her comment by that "assumption", it's evident that she called out a comment she perceived as being sexist, and not playing the shame game. I believe that anyone who realized this to then reread Deroir's comment being worded the unfortunate way it was and given the context (her personal twitter page, etc. see below) would have arrived at the conclusion his comment definitely could be misunderstood as being condescending - possibly deriving from subtle sexism.

>

> I'll lay out the events step by step and annotate what it probably looked like from **her** perspective, plus my thoughts:

>

> **1)** She posts a long, well thought out comment explaining why they present the player character in GW2 the way they do. - Which is to the state of the art in the MMORPG genre.

>

> **2)** A fan chimes in to comment: "Really interesting thread to read! ? However, allow me to disagree * slightly *." To then suggest the implementation of something as basic as branching dialogue. - With the OKAY emoticon and the * * I think this can easily be misread as being belittling. The tone is set for his following advice: Seemingly given under the assumption that she, as a dev of the narrative team, was completely ignorant. This is what you'll take from Deroir's comment if you assume there's more to it than just the purely factual layer. Given the fact it was posted on her personal twitter account in the outlined context, reading it as a personal slight is not really a stretch. However she should have been aware of her role as a representative of ArenaNet - her twitter profile was set to public after all!

>

> Do you believe the massive kitten that reddit brought over JP was warranted?

> Then ? But how about you, superbrain, allow me to disagree * slightly * ... (please excuse the paraphrasing)

>

> Let me elaborate:

> It's in our nature to ask ourselves: What does him(her) talking the way he(she) does tell about his(her) opinion of me? This interpretation happens subconciously and plays an important role in all of our social interactions (see: four-sides model of communication). Therefore she may have perceived the comment along the lines of "I think you're incompetent, so here's how you do it, gurl".

> Overt sexism isn't broadly tolerated anymore, instead it shows in more subtle ways, like a male colleague assuming an equally qualified female co-worker as naturally being less competent. Why shouldn't she be upset about it?

> Rationality, objectivity and competence are still regarded as typical male attributes by a whole lot of people. Thus women wrongfully being considered less competent than they really are is a VERY common symptom of sexism in our society. This happens even despite them having years of professional expertise. I think it's infuriating! It unmistakably IS sexism, although in a more subtle way and therefore in many cases hard to discern. A valid means of defense the victim has against this kind of sexism is calling out the aggressor.

> Was she right assuming sexist motivations? Certainly not, as she doesn't know the youtuber personally and it wasn't but a written comment. But she felt offended anyhow. She shouldn't be disregarded just for being frustrated about (what she perceived to be) yet another macho trying to teach her how to do her job! She's made that experience before - like many women working in male-dominated occupations have.

>

> **3)** So she's under the impression some macho is treating her in a condescending way and she posts a snappy response. She calls out the (perceived) sexist in another twitter post and then she goes on to voice her indignation about "rando asshats" in general that feel the need to teach her about branching dialogue as if she - with a DECADE of professional expertise - never heard of it. - This emotional outburst will get her fired. Here is where she missteps. It just didn't appear to her that Deroir's suggestion was born from naivety and the excitement over the chance of engaging her into a discussion. People that don't grasp where she's coming from will ask themselves: Is she just pointlessly attacking Deroir for the fun of it, playing the shame game to shut up a critic or did she genuinely perceive to be treated in a sexist way?

> Is it just her frustration about know-all macho fans speaking? Or is she this arrogant to tell the fans they have no right to criticize her and make suggestions because they're just not knowledgeable enough?

> I'll go with the conjecture that she's a decent person as well and simply was really frustrated. But choose whatever fits your narrative!

>

> **4)** Deroir then replies she didn't need to get mad because it was obvious he just attempted to create dialogue and discussion, which is disheartening. He then writes "I'm sorry if it offended. I'll leave you to it." - This is not a proper apology. He denies the possibility that his comment could arguably be understood as offensive, but if she read it as sth it clearly is not: Sorry anyways. For example a sincere apology would have been as simple as: "I'm sorry I offended you. My comment wasn't meant to be disrespectful." without all that talk of "obvious" and "disheartening" beforehand. This wouldn't dismiss the possibility of partially being to blame for the misunderstanding as well. It would properly acknowledge and legitimize her feeling offended. Deroir's apology was formulated in a polite enough way but had the emotional scope of a "uh, sorry you feel that way, I guess". It mocked her. I'm genuinely convinced that Deroir meant to apologize, and not play her hurt feelings down acting know-all. The issue was: He admired her and was upset about her reaction. But in any case there was no need for her to "apologize" as well.

>

> **5)** Someone makes a reddit post about it, points the finger her way for calling out Deroir's comment - that she clearly had perceived as patronizing - and a hundred starved Morlocks hungering for blood and female genitalia emerge. The most moderate ones get worked up about her pointlessly aggressive reply to such a polite person. The more savage ones lunge right at her to openly harass and defame because there's not an ounce of humanity left in them. (This is satire, please don't take it to heart.)

>

> **6)** The rest of her tweets has to be seen in this context: She ridicules them talking about their "hurt manfeels" and uses the unexpected publicity to speak out against fans that act like they have some entitlement to her personal life. - This certainly wasn't clever. She acts in a disrespectful manner encouraging the public/reddit outrage to further escalate. She doesn't take the situation serious at all and is too stubborn to apologize. Even so, I thought her way of reacting was pretty entertaining.

>

> So in my opinion her reactions were perfectly comprehensible - but unprofessional. A big part of the community jumped to the conclusion her response was a haughty act of aggression purely aimed at shutting up a critic, causing reddit to overheat! I don't want to argue whether her termination was warranted or not. A discussion about it is pretty moot anyways, because as far as I know in the US there is no law for protection against dismissal to speak of (I'm an utter layman and german btw). Certainly it wasn't entirely unwarranted that she was fired. But I don't agree with the people that believe MO proved his "moral integrity" in doing so. In fact: Quite the contrary. Business morale shouldn't be mistaken for a social value.

> She simply shouldn't have replied to harsh criticism that she felt was condescending like a private person on her personal twitter account - set to public.

>

> If I hadn't known Deroir from his twitch channel and some youtube videos as the friendly and respectful person that he is, I would have understood his comment as being disparaging as well. You are welcome to disagree, yet if you do, does that entitle you to publicly judge my personality?

> And what if I assumed this condescending behavior stems from sexism, based on previous experiences I've made. Would you feel free to call me "one of the worst kind of people"? (quote: reddit) And if I felt the need to not leave it at that, to go on the offensive and call out the aggressor, would you partake in a public "witch hunt" to get me fired? (quote: reddit)

> She took offence to one person's comment and reacted (inappropriately?!) to it! Yet a part of the community acted as if she had just insulted all of their mothers. Justified?

>

> **Tldr:**

> Through her impulsive tweets she had a big part in escalating the whole situation, more so, she was a main driving force with reddit being another. And seemingly she still doesn't admit to her share of the guilt, at least not to the full extent of it - she didn't just speak out only once but kept pushing it. She misjudged the situation and was stubborn to not yield when she still had the chance! However, I don't think she has the whole responsibility. The reddit community can't exactly be described as "innocent bystanders".

> In any case I don't regard her as the "passive aggressive waste of a person" a big part of the community does. Many in the community embraced the idea, though, and partook in a crusade to get her fired. She didn't deserve that. Her's weren't "attacks on the community", her conviction was that she was calling out a brazenly macho and ridiculing abusive trolls.

> The way I see it, all of this wasn't but a really unfortunate misunderstanding between two respectable people on the internet that was inflated through publicity till it burst. But maybe I'm being naive.

>

> As for Peter being fired, there isn't much to talk about because in his case it's clear and simple:

> It was an alarmingly unfair overreaction on MO's part. He worked at ArenaNet for 13 years! And all he did was trying to help out a colleague against an angry internet mob! I'm certain that in Germany his termination would be judicially revoked without much fuss.

 

Your whole point starts on the wrong foot and shows you don't have full information on the situation.

She was not fired because of a reddit thread. She was fired because she attacked a respectful member of the community while adressing company issues. That wasn't just a random article she wrote. It was a follow up to the AMA and specifically mentioned the commander wich is a GW2 character. She was talking about GW2 design.

 

There's no if's and but's. There was no sexism. Deroir presented his point after complimenting her post and asked if he could be allowed to slightly disagree! She went completely ballistic on him immediately. The sexism happened only on her head because that is her go-to for victimization. It reminds me of Anita Sarkeesian saying that everything is sexist. When you have that point of view, you are not a feminist, you are completely intoxicated with feminism. Till this day Jessica still doesn't see what she did wrong when she violently attacked and shamed a member of the community because he dared to voice an opinion and because he dared to be male. It is completely unacceptable. I'm sorry but there is no defending it. She was the sexist one.

If this is what Feminism is, then Feminism is synonym to bullying. I don't think anyone wants that to be the case. She did a disservice to the feminist community she claims to defend. I don't have enough words to describe how disgusted i am at her attitude. She is no feminist, she is a bully.

 

Also Peter was not innocent in any way. He tried to argue that twitter is a personal forum. It is simply false. He kept defending the abuse of the respectful community member. That makes him complicit.

It was unfortunate because he ended up being dragged by Jessica's antics, but he did so at his own risk.

 

The only way to protect Arena net's image was to have the company be completely detached from the exchange and that is what happened. Anet didn't go to war with it's own customers to satisfy an employees tyrannical ego. That was a victory to the whole gaming community. Mike is a hero in my eyes. A reasonable and just person. We don't see enough of them in this age of Trump.

I will be very happy to continue to support arena net with every title they release. I was already a fan but i have been dropping off with GW2 (even though i bought every xpac and some gems), but now i am certainly here for life, because anet protects not only it's employees but it's customers. When there's a mutual exchange of civility, positivity wins the day and Guild Wars becomes a better game.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

Good guy YongYea did another great video on the matter.

 

[mixxed.5862]

> @"Nemmar.8491" said:

> > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > I just watched a certain youtuber Y... lay out his thoughts about what happened on July 4th. I disagree with his analysis and see the events from another angle myself. Even though my point of view is clearly unpopular, there may be a few founded reflections in here. So please hear me out, even though I'll start on a harsh tone:

> >

> > I'm disgusted by how a part of this community reacted to JP's tweets, calling for her to be fired and being genuinely happy about it afterwards. To me it's simply inconceivable how so many could overreact like that to blow this matter this massively out of proportion.

> >

> > Let me explain why I'm shocked by the way so many reacted: It was terrible not only because she was treated in an openly disrespectful manner (some even were offensive and upvoted for it). No, to me it seemed like most didn't even give her the benefit of the doubt, that EVERYONE deserves: That she is a decent person as well. Because if you're reading her comment by that "assumption", it's evident that she called out a comment she perceived as being sexist, and not playing the shame game. I believe that anyone who realized this to then reread Deroir's comment being worded the unfortunate way it was and given the context (her personal twitter page, etc. see below) would have arrived at the conclusion his comment definitely could be misunderstood as being condescending - possibly deriving from subtle sexism.

> >

> > I'll lay out the events step by step and annotate what it probably looked like from **her** perspective, plus my thoughts:

> >

> > **1)** She posts a long, well thought out comment explaining why they present the player character in GW2 the way they do. - Which is to the state of the art in the MMORPG genre.

> >

> > **2)** A fan chimes in to comment: "Really interesting thread to read! ? However, allow me to disagree * slightly *." To then suggest the implementation of something as basic as branching dialogue. - With the OKAY emoticon and the * * I think this can easily be misread as being belittling. The tone is set for his following advice: Seemingly given under the assumption that she, as a dev of the narrative team, was completely ignorant. This is what you'll take from Deroir's comment if you assume there's more to it than just the purely factual layer. Given the fact it was posted on her personal twitter account in the outlined context, reading it as a personal slight is not really a stretch. However she should have been aware of her role as a representative of ArenaNet - her twitter profile was set to public after all!

> >

> > Do you believe the massive kitten that reddit brought over JP was warranted?

> > Then ? But how about you, superbrain, allow me to disagree * slightly * ... (please excuse the paraphrasing)

> >

> > Let me elaborate:

> > It's in our nature to ask ourselves: What does him(her) talking the way he(she) does tell about his(her) opinion of me? This interpretation happens subconciously and plays an important role in all of our social interactions (see: four-sides model of communication). Therefore she may have perceived the comment along the lines of "I think you're incompetent, so here's how you do it, gurl".

> > Overt sexism isn't broadly tolerated anymore, instead it shows in more subtle ways, like a male colleague assuming an equally qualified female co-worker as naturally being less competent. Why shouldn't she be upset about it?

> > Rationality, objectivity and competence are still regarded as typical male attributes by a whole lot of people. Thus women wrongfully being considered less competent than they really are is a VERY common symptom of sexism in our society. This happens even despite them having years of professional expertise. I think it's infuriating! It unmistakably IS sexism, although in a more subtle way and therefore in many cases hard to discern. A valid means of defense the victim has against this kind of sexism is calling out the aggressor.

> > Was she right assuming sexist motivations? Certainly not, as she doesn't know the youtuber personally and it wasn't but a written comment. But she felt offended anyhow. She shouldn't be disregarded just for being frustrated about (what she perceived to be) yet another macho trying to teach her how to do her job! She's made that experience before - like many women working in male-dominated occupations have.

> >

> > **3)** So she's under the impression some macho is treating her in a condescending way and she posts a snappy response. She calls out the (perceived) sexist in another twitter post and then she goes on to voice her indignation about "rando asshats" in general that feel the need to teach her about branching dialogue as if she - with a DECADE of professional expertise - never heard of it. - This emotional outburst will get her fired. Here is where she missteps. It just didn't appear to her that Deroir's suggestion was born from naivety and the excitement over the chance of engaging her into a discussion. People that don't grasp where she's coming from will ask themselves: Is she just pointlessly attacking Deroir for the fun of it, playing the shame game to shut up a critic or did she genuinely perceive to be treated in a sexist way?

> > Is it just her frustration about know-all macho fans speaking? Or is she this arrogant to tell the fans they have no right to criticize her and make suggestions because they're just not knowledgeable enough?

> > I'll go with the conjecture that she's a decent person as well and simply was really frustrated. But choose whatever fits your narrative!

> >

> > **4)** Deroir then replies she didn't need to get mad because it was obvious he just attempted to create dialogue and discussion, which is disheartening. He then writes "I'm sorry if it offended. I'll leave you to it." - This is not a proper apology. He denies the possibility that his comment could arguably be understood as offensive, but if she read it as sth it clearly is not: Sorry anyways. For example a sincere apology would have been as simple as: "I'm sorry I offended you. My comment wasn't meant to be disrespectful." without all that talk of "obvious" and "disheartening" beforehand. This wouldn't dismiss the possibility of partially being to blame for the misunderstanding as well. It would properly acknowledge and legitimize her feeling offended. Deroir's apology was formulated in a polite enough way but had the emotional scope of a "uh, sorry you feel that way, I guess". It mocked her. I'm genuinely convinced that Deroir meant to apologize, and not play her hurt feelings down acting know-all. The issue was: He admired her and was upset about her reaction. But in any case there was no need for her to "apologize" as well.

> >

> > **5)** Someone makes a reddit post about it, points the finger her way for calling out Deroir's comment - that she clearly had perceived as patronizing - and a hundred starved Morlocks hungering for blood and female genitalia emerge. The most moderate ones get worked up about her pointlessly aggressive reply to such a polite person. The more savage ones lunge right at her to openly harass and defame because there's not an ounce of humanity left in them. (This is satire, please don't take it to heart.)

> >

> > **6)** The rest of her tweets has to be seen in this context: She ridicules them talking about their "hurt manfeels" and uses the unexpected publicity to speak out against fans that act like they have some entitlement to her personal life. - This certainly wasn't clever. She acts in a disrespectful manner encouraging the public/reddit outrage to further escalate. She doesn't take the situation serious at all and is too stubborn to apologize. Even so, I thought her way of reacting was pretty entertaining.

> >

> > So in my opinion her reactions were perfectly comprehensible - but unprofessional. A big part of the community jumped to the conclusion her response was a haughty act of aggression purely aimed at shutting up a critic, causing reddit to overheat! I don't want to argue whether her termination was warranted or not. A discussion about it is pretty moot anyways, because as far as I know in the US there is no law for protection against dismissal to speak of (I'm an utter layman and german btw). Certainly it wasn't entirely unwarranted that she was fired. But I don't agree with the people that believe MO proved his "moral integrity" in doing so. In fact: Quite the contrary. Business morale shouldn't be mistaken for a social value.

> > She simply shouldn't have replied to harsh criticism that she felt was condescending like a private person on her personal twitter account - set to public.

> >

> > If I hadn't known Deroir from his twitch channel and some youtube videos as the friendly and respectful person that he is, I would have understood his comment as being disparaging as well. You are welcome to disagree, yet if you do, does that entitle you to publicly judge my personality?

> > And what if I assumed this condescending behavior stems from sexism, based on previous experiences I've made. Would you feel free to call me "one of the worst kind of people"? (quote: reddit) And if I felt the need to not leave it at that, to go on the offensive and call out the aggressor, would you partake in a public "witch hunt" to get me fired? (quote: reddit)

> > She took offence to one person's comment and reacted (inappropriately?!) to it! Yet a part of the community acted as if she had just insulted all of their mothers. Justified?

> >

> > **Tldr:**

> > Through her impulsive tweets she had a big part in escalating the whole situation, more so, she was a main driving force with reddit being another. And seemingly she still doesn't admit to her share of the guilt, at least not to the full extent of it - she didn't just speak out only once but kept pushing it. She misjudged the situation and was stubborn to not yield when she still had the chance! However, I don't think she has the whole responsibility. The reddit community can't exactly be described as "innocent bystanders".

> > In any case I don't regard her as the "passive aggressive waste of a person" a big part of the community does. Many in the community embraced the idea, though, and partook in a crusade to get her fired. She didn't deserve that. Her's weren't "attacks on the community", her conviction was that she was calling out a brazenly macho and ridiculing abusive trolls.

> > The way I see it, all of this wasn't but a really unfortunate misunderstanding between two respectable people on the internet that was inflated through publicity till it burst. But maybe I'm being naive.

> >

> > As for Peter being fired, there isn't much to talk about because in his case it's clear and simple:

> > It was an alarmingly unfair overreaction on MO's part. He worked at ArenaNet for 13 years! And all he did was trying to help out a colleague against an angry internet mob! I'm certain that in Germany his termination would be judicially revoked without much fuss.

>

> Your whole point starts on the wrong foot and shows you don't have full information on the situation.

> She was not fired because of a reddit thread. She was fired because she attacked a respectful member of the community while adressing company issues. That wasn't just a random article she wrote. It was a follow up to the AMA and specifically mention the commander wich is a GW2 character. She was talking about GW2 in a public forum.

>

> There's no if's and but's. There was no sexism. Deroir presented his point after complimenting her post and asked if he could be allowed to slightly disagree! She went completely ballistic on him immediately. The sexism happened only on her head because that is her go-to for victimization. It reminds me of Anita Sarkeesian saying that everything is sexist. When you have that point of view, you are not a feminist, you are completely intoxicated with feminism. Till this day Jessica still doesn't see what she did wrong when she violently attacked and shamed a member of the community because he dared to voice an opinion and because he dared to be male. It is completely unacceptable. I'm sorry but there is no defending it. She was the sexist one.

> If this is what Feminism is, then Feminism is synonym to bullying. I don't think anyone wants that to be the case. She did a disservice to the feminist community she claims to defend. I don't have enough words to describe how disgusted i am at her attitude. She is no feminist, she is a bully.

>

 

I'm aware of it. That is why I didn't argue her termination was unwarranted. You missed my whole point. Which was that the community wasn't right in being this upset in the first place.

 

If you really think that there are no "if's and but's" you are simplifying it. I go to lengths to explain how someone could see it as disparaging behavior, thinking it is due to a sexist motivation isn't a big step from there. You however characterize JP as "completely intoxicated with feminism", don't you think with your assumption you're reading just as much into sb's character?

 

I'm not so sure about it. I'm certain she knows full well she acted unprofessional. And I agree that at some point she should better have apologized to Deroir.

 

I never said that what she did was for the cause of feminism.

[kurfu.5623]

"ArenaNet CEO Responds to Fired Guild Wars 2 Dev's Ridiculous Claims"

 

[Nemmar.8491]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > @"Nemmar.8491" said:

> > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > I just watched a certain youtuber Y... lay out his thoughts about what happened on July 4th. I disagree with his analysis and see the events from another angle myself. Even though my point of view is clearly unpopular, there may be a few founded reflections in here. So please hear me out, even though I'll start on a harsh tone:

> > >

> > > I'm disgusted by how a part of this community reacted to JP's tweets, calling for her to be fired and being genuinely happy about it afterwards. To me it's simply inconceivable how so many could overreact like that to blow this matter this massively out of proportion.

> > >

> > > Let me explain why I'm shocked by the way so many reacted: It was terrible not only because she was treated in an openly disrespectful manner (some even were offensive and upvoted for it). No, to me it seemed like most didn't even give her the benefit of the doubt, that EVERYONE deserves: That she is a decent person as well. Because if you're reading her comment by that "assumption", it's evident that she called out a comment she perceived as being sexist, and not playing the shame game. I believe that anyone who realized this to then reread Deroir's comment being worded the unfortunate way it was and given the context (her personal twitter page, etc. see below) would have arrived at the conclusion his comment definitely could be misunderstood as being condescending - possibly deriving from subtle sexism.

> > >

> > > I'll lay out the events step by step and annotate what it probably looked like from **her** perspective, plus my thoughts:

> > >

> > > **1)** She posts a long, well thought out comment explaining why they present the player character in GW2 the way they do. - Which is to the state of the art in the MMORPG genre.

> > >

> > > **2)** A fan chimes in to comment: "Really interesting thread to read! ? However, allow me to disagree * slightly *." To then suggest the implementation of something as basic as branching dialogue. - With the OKAY emoticon and the * * I think this can easily be misread as being belittling. The tone is set for his following advice: Seemingly given under the assumption that she, as a dev of the narrative team, was completely ignorant. This is what you'll take from Deroir's comment if you assume there's more to it than just the purely factual layer. Given the fact it was posted on her personal twitter account in the outlined context, reading it as a personal slight is not really a stretch. However she should have been aware of her role as a representative of ArenaNet - her twitter profile was set to public after all!

> > >

> > > Do you believe the massive kitten that reddit brought over JP was warranted?

> > > Then ? But how about you, superbrain, allow me to disagree * slightly * ... (please excuse the paraphrasing)

> > >

> > > Let me elaborate:

> > > It's in our nature to ask ourselves: What does him(her) talking the way he(she) does tell about his(her) opinion of me? This interpretation happens subconciously and plays an important role in all of our social interactions (see: four-sides model of communication). Therefore she may have perceived the comment along the lines of "I think you're incompetent, so here's how you do it, gurl".

> > > Overt sexism isn't broadly tolerated anymore, instead it shows in more subtle ways, like a male colleague assuming an equally qualified female co-worker as naturally being less competent. Why shouldn't she be upset about it?

> > > Rationality, objectivity and competence are still regarded as typical male attributes by a whole lot of people. Thus women wrongfully being considered less competent than they really are is a VERY common symptom of sexism in our society. This happens even despite them having years of professional expertise. I think it's infuriating! It unmistakably IS sexism, although in a more subtle way and therefore in many cases hard to discern. A valid means of defense the victim has against this kind of sexism is calling out the aggressor.

> > > Was she right assuming sexist motivations? Certainly not, as she doesn't know the youtuber personally and it wasn't but a written comment. But she felt offended anyhow. She shouldn't be disregarded just for being frustrated about (what she perceived to be) yet another macho trying to teach her how to do her job! She's made that experience before - like many women working in male-dominated occupations have.

> > >

> > > **3)** So she's under the impression some macho is treating her in a condescending way and she posts a snappy response. She calls out the (perceived) sexist in another twitter post and then she goes on to voice her indignation about "rando asshats" in general that feel the need to teach her about branching dialogue as if she - with a DECADE of professional expertise - never heard of it. - This emotional outburst will get her fired. Here is where she missteps. It just didn't appear to her that Deroir's suggestion was born from naivety and the excitement over the chance of engaging her into a discussion. People that don't grasp where she's coming from will ask themselves: Is she just pointlessly attacking Deroir for the fun of it, playing the shame game to shut up a critic or did she genuinely perceive to be treated in a sexist way?

> > > Is it just her frustration about know-all macho fans speaking? Or is she this arrogant to tell the fans they have no right to criticize her and make suggestions because they're just not knowledgeable enough?

> > > I'll go with the conjecture that she's a decent person as well and simply was really frustrated. But choose whatever fits your narrative!

> > >

> > > **4)** Deroir then replies she didn't need to get mad because it was obvious he just attempted to create dialogue and discussion, which is disheartening. He then writes "I'm sorry if it offended. I'll leave you to it." - This is not a proper apology. He denies the possibility that his comment could arguably be understood as offensive, but if she read it as sth it clearly is not: Sorry anyways. For example a sincere apology would have been as simple as: "I'm sorry I offended you. My comment wasn't meant to be disrespectful." without all that talk of "obvious" and "disheartening" beforehand. This wouldn't dismiss the possibility of partially being to blame for the misunderstanding as well. It would properly acknowledge and legitimize her feeling offended. Deroir's apology was formulated in a polite enough way but had the emotional scope of a "uh, sorry you feel that way, I guess". It mocked her. I'm genuinely convinced that Deroir meant to apologize, and not play her hurt feelings down acting know-all. The issue was: He admired her and was upset about her reaction. But in any case there was no need for her to "apologize" as well.

> > >

> > > **5)** Someone makes a reddit post about it, points the finger her way for calling out Deroir's comment - that she clearly had perceived as patronizing - and a hundred starved Morlocks hungering for blood and female genitalia emerge. The most moderate ones get worked up about her pointlessly aggressive reply to such a polite person. The more savage ones lunge right at her to openly harass and defame because there's not an ounce of humanity left in them. (This is satire, please don't take it to heart.)

> > >

> > > **6)** The rest of her tweets has to be seen in this context: She ridicules them talking about their "hurt manfeels" and uses the unexpected publicity to speak out against fans that act like they have some entitlement to her personal life. - This certainly wasn't clever. She acts in a disrespectful manner encouraging the public/reddit outrage to further escalate. She doesn't take the situation serious at all and is too stubborn to apologize. Even so, I thought her way of reacting was pretty entertaining.

> > >

> > > So in my opinion her reactions were perfectly comprehensible - but unprofessional. A big part of the community jumped to the conclusion her response was a haughty act of aggression purely aimed at shutting up a critic, causing reddit to overheat! I don't want to argue whether her termination was warranted or not. A discussion about it is pretty moot anyways, because as far as I know in the US there is no law for protection against dismissal to speak of (I'm an utter layman and german btw). Certainly it wasn't entirely unwarranted that she was fired. But I don't agree with the people that believe MO proved his "moral integrity" in doing so. In fact: Quite the contrary. Business morale shouldn't be mistaken for a social value.

> > > She simply shouldn't have replied to harsh criticism that she felt was condescending like a private person on her personal twitter account - set to public.

> > >

> > > If I hadn't known Deroir from his twitch channel and some youtube videos as the friendly and respectful person that he is, I would have understood his comment as being disparaging as well. You are welcome to disagree, yet if you do, does that entitle you to publicly judge my personality?

> > > And what if I assumed this condescending behavior stems from sexism, based on previous experiences I've made. Would you feel free to call me "one of the worst kind of people"? (quote: reddit) And if I felt the need to not leave it at that, to go on the offensive and call out the aggressor, would you partake in a public "witch hunt" to get me fired? (quote: reddit)

> > > She took offence to one person's comment and reacted (inappropriately?!) to it! Yet a part of the community acted as if she had just insulted all of their mothers. Justified?

> > >

> > > **Tldr:**

> > > Through her impulsive tweets she had a big part in escalating the whole situation, more so, she was a main driving force with reddit being another. And seemingly she still doesn't admit to her share of the guilt, at least not to the full extent of it - she didn't just speak out only once but kept pushing it. She misjudged the situation and was stubborn to not yield when she still had the chance! However, I don't think she has the whole responsibility. The reddit community can't exactly be described as "innocent bystanders".

> > > In any case I don't regard her as the "passive aggressive waste of a person" a big part of the community does. Many in the community embraced the idea, though, and partook in a crusade to get her fired. She didn't deserve that. Her's weren't "attacks on the community", her conviction was that she was calling out a brazenly macho and ridiculing abusive trolls.

> > > The way I see it, all of this wasn't but a really unfortunate misunderstanding between two respectable people on the internet that was inflated through publicity till it burst. But maybe I'm being naive.

> > >

> > > As for Peter being fired, there isn't much to talk about because in his case it's clear and simple:

> > > It was an alarmingly unfair overreaction on MO's part. He worked at ArenaNet for 13 years! And all he did was trying to help out a colleague against an angry internet mob! I'm certain that in Germany his termination would be judicially revoked without much fuss.

> >

> > Your whole point starts on the wrong foot and shows you don't have full information on the situation.

> > She was not fired because of a reddit thread. She was fired because she attacked a respectful member of the community while adressing company issues. That wasn't just a random article she wrote. It was a follow up to the AMA and specifically mention the commander wich is a GW2 character. She was talking about GW2 in a public forum.

> >

> > There's no if's and but's. There was no sexism. Deroir presented his point after complimenting her post and asked if he could be allowed to slightly disagree! She went completely ballistic on him immediately. The sexism happened only on her head because that is her go-to for victimization. It reminds me of Anita Sarkeesian saying that everything is sexist. When you have that point of view, you are not a feminist, you are completely intoxicated with feminism. Till this day Jessica still doesn't see what she did wrong when she violently attacked and shamed a member of the community because he dared to voice an opinion and because he dared to be male. It is completely unacceptable. I'm sorry but there is no defending it. She was the sexist one.

> > If this is what Feminism is, then Feminism is synonym to bullying. I don't think anyone wants that to be the case. She did a disservice to the feminist community she claims to defend. I don't have enough words to describe how disgusted i am at her attitude. She is no feminist, she is a bully.

> >

>

> I'm aware of it. That is why I didn't argue her termination was unwarranted. You missed my whole point. Which was that the community wasn't right in being this upset in the first place.

>

> If you really think that there are no "if's and but's" you are simplifying it. I go to lengths to explain how someone could see it as disparaging behavior, thinking it is due to a sexist motivation isn't a big step from there. You however characterize JP as "completely intoxicated with feminism", don't you think with your assumption you're reading just as much into sb's character?

>

> I'm not so sure about it. I'm certain she knows full well she acted unprofessional. And I agree that at some point she should better have apologized to Deroir.

>

> I never said that what she did was for the cause of feminism.

 

No, i don't. I have not seen a single person that i recognize that see's sexism in his exchange. It all happened in her head. I called it intoxicated with feminism, because paranoia was too strong a word. But it is what it is.

There are many justifiable female abuse issues that deserve attention and victim protection, but this one wasn't even close. Jessica is not a victim in the exchange. She was the aggressor. As such, there is no possible defense. Whatever story she told herself on her head was simply false and gave her no right to behave the way she did.

If she didn't want to discuss the issue, she shouldn't have made it public. Can't have it both ways. Can't be the aggressor and victim at the same time.