Increasing toxicity in EU WvW.

[Sylosi.6503]

Vabbi is funny, this week is the first time I played in maybe 6 months because people said this matchup would be good, they were wrong it is trash compared to even a couple of years ago, let alone earlier in the game, God knows how bad typical matchups are if this sorry piece of shit is the best matchup out there.

 

But anyway the funny thing is this "toxicity" doesn't even seem to be working very well, e.g last night I played, what did you have, you had a commander in EB crying he only had 40 in squad with less than that in Discord with a 30 man queue, there was some guy trolling them about meta builds for it seemed the entire evening, which some didn't take well, I guess it is a case of some who like to dish it out, but can't take it.

 

And to top it off WSR have the better k/d ratio, seems things like project Vabbi only work when the big boys still played like Ravya, Forza, etc these new guys lack leadership ability, man-management, etc.

 

The other thing I've noted is Vabbi basically do what bad players do, that is look for excuses/scapegoats rather than address the real problems, so if you join the squad and use a DPS meter, it is quite telling how it is like the same 4 or 5 guys doing a lot of the damage and how a fair few on supposed meta damage orientated classes/builds are doing pitiful levels of damage, but then after losing some fights these guys whine in teamchat about AFKers, DH, rangers, thieves, etc, as if that is the problem.

 

[Garrus.7403]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

 

>

> And to top it off WSR have the better k/d ratio, seems things like project Vabbi only work when the big boys still played like Ravya, Forza, etc these second raters don't have the leadership, man-management, etc.

>

 

 

Maybe wsr has the better kd now because you are no longer there omegalul. :)

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"Lemoncurry.2345" said:

> > @"Garrus.7403" said:

> > Would you ask Ronaldo to play for your local football club with ppl who are not on his level infact far below his level? I guess not. First of all he would never do it for the money but he also would not do it because it would be so boring for him. If other players would step up and organize themselves you would not have so many players on wsr or vabbi.

> Oh a football analogy. :) Sadly "stacking" is a problem there too in the EU. In Ligue 1 Paris Saint-Germain is dominating while in the Bundesliga Bayern München is pretty much fixed as the #1 every year, resulting in a lot of games being rather boring to watch. It is little better in the Primera División (3 top teams) and the Serie A (arguably 2-4 top teams). Only the Premier League has some variety and uncertain outcomes. In general just the few sides who enter the Champions League have all the money and collect the top players, making the gap between them and the weaker contestants bigger and bigger each year.

> Across the big pond where the football isn't round, salary caps and a draft system are implemented to (at least in theory) give each team chances to win the Super Bowl. I like this system better!

>

>

 

Cus Murca? That's what WvW needs to embrace!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

So, the Ronaldos of WvW are getting rekt hard this week.

Pretentious kittens...

[Etheri.2654]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

 

This isn't a matchup thread. I agree the quality of the matchup is low; yet still vastly better than most matchups I've had. Does it suprise you both servers have an EBG which is mostly populated - as with all servers- with players who will not organise and the server which has their guild players there will be vastly dominant? Surely it doesn't?

 

Our guilds were raiding on other maps; their guilds were raiding on EBG which we couldn't get into due to the queue. The moment our players got in they called the raid. Excuses left right and center even among fight players are nothing new and have been coming and going for centuries. It's not exclusive to vabbi, nor does it not happen on vabbi, it's true for every single server.

 

If one elitist server eventually leads to more elitist servers to match; I'd say it is working.

 

>@"Terrier.8732" If "pvp style fight players" want a better wvw, with less toxicity, they might think of unstacking their servers and being less toxic. In theory, a good "alliance" composition should contain a variety of guild/player strengths and styles. WvW is essentially a game of strategy on every level, both PPT and PPK. One big chess game.. and in chess, you have more than just Queens and pawns.

 

Have you been reading? Less toxicity? In theory a good alliance composition with variety of guilds / player strengths? I'm sorry but the veterans were at a core of this for years, continuously bullied and now completley overran by others. Almost everyone who enjoyed this already quit; not because of veterans stacking or being toxic but because of casuals doing the same.

 

WvW is a game of strategy; yes. And it turns out a queen is pretty damn strong. But if the queen is surrounded by pawns, she can't move nor do her thing. Strategy goes out the window when the queen is fighting her pawns to be able to move anywhere; rather than moving to her strengths. But she just can't seem to shake the pawns off her tail ;)

 

Again; I enjoyed this style of play when pawns and queens could respect eachother despite their differences. But appearantly that's too much to ask for nowadays. You can tell me us we must; forever; be the bigger person and put up with it anyways. But we do not. The option is elitism or quitting. So for the few that remain; I advise elitism.

 

[Etheri.5406]

Time for an update with the latest EU trends.

 

With gvg / hardcore fight guilds dying, the most active remaining EU fight guilds are considerably larger 25-30+ and are often running closed on maps like EB to fight (small) zergs. They also fight eachother. These guilds are typically accompanied by 10-30+ pugs, especially on EB where it's generally just a blob.

 

Nice for whoever dislikes going to voice and enjoys playing as they wish. Pretty mediocre for those who enjoyed organising with the players on their server without having the commitment to dedicate yourself to closed raids. The voice comms from these guilds are typically not public, neither are the squads.

 

Perhaps setting elitist requirements for pug zergs is not enough. Instead commanders just do guild raids with their players, where pugs can add but aren't invited or incorperated at all. It further increases the skill difference between both groups - which will make population balance in future harder rather than easier - but considering the state of the game that's the least of our issues.

 

Still no increase in public tags. If anything - further decrease in frequency due to holidays.

 

ALL EU SERVERS ARE CURRENTLY OPEN.

 

Riverside was open 4 days - they instantly got enough transfers to carry themselves out of the T5 permalocked oktoberfest they were stuck in for... about 6 months? H Y P E. After 4 days it was CLOSED as ONLY SERVER IN EU. I have no idea how the only full server in entire EU was a national, T5 server with no link...What was anet afraid of? RS getting out of T4? Somehow, #1 link desolation + AG were both open for transfers yet RS was full. :trollface:. Anet reconsidered their decision opened RS again. How long will it last this time?

 

Do you want to transfer to a more succesful server? These are the servers with **very high** status right now - Get in quick before you run out of spots.

International :

Desolation - Gankdara - Piken - WSR

German :

Kodash - Elona - RS

Spanish :

BB

 

Trending up : AG (FSP transfers), RS (fresh blood), kodash (link-dependent)

Trending down : FSP (dropped down to MEDIUM in T1)

 

As stated previously - the massive transfers towards FSP lead to most of the dedicated FSP community which made it strong originally leaving. After them leaving, these servers tend to implode quickly. Perhaps after it further implodes, some guilds will return? Perhaps it will turn into another pug-dominant server no comm or guild wants to go near. Only time will tell.

 

Don't forget to bandwagon and spread elitism. If you want bags; you must earn them.

[Hoxworth.7318]

This thread surely is an interesting read ;)

[Etheri.5406]

> @"YouWillHide.9847" said:

> This thread surely is an interesting read ;)

 

Hidey, as a former T4-T5 roamer and wvw player... What made you join the elitist stacked servers? How does WvW nowadays make you feel?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Correct me if I am wrong (as I may be so wrong this is legit and not bashing anyone), however isnt WvW in EU a bit more serious than NA? Ive heard countless people who go to EU from NA and state this. Almost treating it like an esport. If this is true, that would probably the the root of any "EU toxicity" in WvW.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> Correct me if I am wrong (as I may be so wrong this is legit and not bashing anyone), however isnt WvW in EU a bit more serious than NA? Ive heard countless people who go to EU from NA and state this. Almost treating it like an esport. If this is true, that would probably the the root of any "EU toxicity" in WvW.

 

They get in coms they almost all bring proper classes and almost everyone joins squad.

[Hoxworth.7318]

> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > @"YouWillHide.9847" said:

> > This thread surely is an interesting read ;)

>

> Hidey, as a former T4-T5 roamer and wvw player... What made you join the elitist stacked servers? How does WvW nowadays make you feel?

 

How nice of you to ask:

 

As former t4-t5 roamer the reason I joined the elitist stacked server is because I got accepted into LAYS and LAYS was on Vabbi and the experience was nice, I met alot of nice people and had a blast on Vabbi ofcourse! Not to mention Fissure of Woe got shitty link the past few links (at the time). Vabbi to me isnt really toxic, its just the people who refuse to have any IQ and swap builds are the ones yelling the loudest and making reddit posts. Except for when I raid with LAYS I just pug and have fun with the people that I like, And don't really pay attention to the ones who can only call me t5 trash. I moved back to FoW as of now because that's where my friends are + i've always got an alt on vabbi incase vabbi gets fun, but so far I hear its been a shitty link?

[Etheri.5406]

Link is fairly inactive, which to my liking is perfect.

[Hoxworth.7318]

Maybe next Link all the people that went to AG will keep you company again

[Etheri.5406]

> @"YouWillHide.9847" said:

> Maybe next Link all the people that went to AG will keep you company again

 

I doubt that. I'm fairly certain AG has more players than several "main servers". I assume FSP might become a link server :trollface: . I mean it's medium after all. I guess AG becomes main server. So I think it's more likely to get FSP as new link than AG. That said... the result would be just as bad if not worse. Or better, depending on howmuch you enjoy teamchat drama and copy pastas. I'll assume for the average forum user the outcome of that link would be "literally unplayable". But hey, that's the goal right?

 

It's still funny. FSP is "medium" as main server because their commanders finally decided they'd rather leave FSP or quit than lead these clowns. And without players carrying them... well suddenly all the pugs magically dissapear. I think we'll need some more... elitism and toxicity - to ensure those players don't come back. Meanwhile they still believe it's not /them/. They're just sweet little casuals.

 

Can you imagine them linking FSP to WSR? I'd be tempted to transfer just to enjoy teamchat.

 

In all seriousness; the only thing I'm fighting if we get a huge special snowflake pug server with 0 comms and 500 pugs entitled to chase us around 24/7 will be my own link in teamchat. Reminds me of anet linking GH + UW + vabbi together. Pretty sure I spent more time in OS than in all 4 other maps combined throughout those 2 months. But hey, what's 2 months of not playing for WvW vets? Sounds like a regular day in WvW. "Here's a new map. Oh it lags? Whoopsie. "

 

Do you want to protect your server from the leeching fairweather players?? Do you want to avoid becoming a LINK SERVER after the massive exodus of every sane player and every person that would talk or interact with other players from your server? Become TOXIC now.

 

@"Israel.7056" 3 years ago most international servers had comms, on many servers the more casual - blobguild oriented ones rather than the fight-guilds which would get pretty large numbers and fight other blobs. Nowadays, only elitist toxic or stacked servers are capable of this. The TS and squads you talk about exist on german servers and a few fresh servers... But if you go to other servers which I can't name without getting spam reported - you'll have 50+ players still without getting 3 firebrands in squad. As I'm saying, players play according to the culture.

I only know 4 servers which are capable of producing organised 50 man squads and TS presence; 2 german and 2 international.

[Excellent Name.9574]

> Do you want to protect your server from the leeching fairweather players?? Do you want to avoid becoming a LINK SERVER after the massive exodus of every sane player and every person that would talk or interact with other players from your server? Become TOXIC now.

>

 

If Vabbi is a measure for toxicity and its success of retaining valuable players then I have to say that Your advice is an absolute and total fail. Vabbi to my knowledge has been promoting and using META + TS(Discord these days) or DIE tactic. They have gone through several sets of commanders without any visible success. The former and current commanders as someone said well before me usually end up first accusing then begging people that they do not let in squads for supplies because their squads are mostly half full. You don't have to be a genius to see how Vabbi wastes resources of both their server and the paired ones. Some people are only Core players, either by choice or they have never upgraded to expansions, then You have F2P players who have no other choice but to play Core, then people who can't or won't use Discord or TS as real life takes precedence...and so on. All these folks are waste to Vabbi. If Vabbi was a company and their commanders CEOs the shareholders would press every single one of them to take a hike since they are creating hostile working environment, not using all freely available resources...etc.

 

My server, Underworld, gets often paired with Vabbi and it is tragicomic to watch such ill conceived way to push to higher tier.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

Toxicity is never a success. All it will do is push everybody away and you'll be left with only yourself to play with. Which I guess some people enjoy.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> Time for an update with the latest EU trends.

>

> With gvg / hardcore fight guilds dying

I think you are a little behind the trend, GvGs died like... 4 years ago. Maybe 5.

 

> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> As stated previously - the massive transfers towards FSP lead to most of the dedicated FSP community which made it strong originally leaving. After them leaving, these servers tend to implode quickly. Perhaps after it further implodes, some guilds will return? Perhaps it will turn into another pug-dominant server no comm or guild wants to go near. Only time will tell.

Perhaps the same thing will happen that has happened every time in this lava lamp tier system of bandwagoners? Yes, thats actually quite likely. Because it happens... every time. Over. And over. And over. Again.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

I actually like the community on my server. The guilds are all respectfull of each other - and it is pretty usual to be in two or more server guilds. So they are some bonds.

 

Today closed guild raid. But we took some people of another guild in, because they are nice people. Hell, we even have someone from the link server in the guild, because he is a good person.

 

Communities exist. If you choose to ignore them. That's fine.

 

There are servers that are toxic to the bone. UW comes to mind. As long as they were linked to Vabbi, everybody who wanted to be Vabbian but could not get into it, went there. When the link dissolved, they were stuck.. and very nasty.

 

Toxicity comes with bandwaggoners and server jumpers, maybe linking (I am quite satisfied with the current link. Some good people there). But at the end, it is the guilds themselves that set the tone. You are willing to take in and groom new player? Congratulation, you just made the community stronger. You let people experiment a bit? Congratulations, you just made the community stronger etc pp.

[Israel.7056]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Toxicity is never a success. All it will do is push everybody away and you'll be left with only yourself to play with. Which I guess some people enjoy.

 

The problem with this discussion is that toxicity is entirely subjective.

[Sovereign.1093]

2 things

 

1. choose your buddies, they will back you up.

2. block those who make this game mode unfun for you.

 

enjoy =)

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Excellent Name.9574" said:

> > Do you want to protect your server from the leeching fairweather players?? Do you want to avoid becoming a LINK SERVER after the massive exodus of every sane player and every person that would talk or interact with other players from your server? Become TOXIC now.

> >

>

> If Vabbi is a measure for toxicity and its success of retaining valuable players then I have to say that Your advice is an absolute and total fail. Vabbi to my knowledge has been promoting and using META + TS(Discord these days) or DIE tactic. They have gone through several sets of commanders without any visible success. The former and current commanders as someone said well before me usually end up first accusing then begging people that they do not let in squads for supplies because their squads are mostly half full. You don't have to be a genius to see how Vabbi wastes resources of both their server and the paired ones. Some people are only Core players, either by choice or they have never upgraded to expansions, then You have F2P players who have no other choice but to play Core, then people who can't or won't use Discord or TS as real life takes precedence...and so on. All these folks are waste to Vabbi. If Vabbi was a company and their commanders CEOs the shareholders would press every single one of them to take a hike since they are creating hostile working environment, not using all freely available resources...etc.

>

> My server, Underworld, gets often paired with Vabbi and it is tragicomic to watch such ill conceived way to push to higher tier.

 

Hello. You seem to be very confused.

 

>because their squads are mostly half full.

 

I commanded 8 hours this weekend. I've had full squad most of that time; and a queue on the map more than 7/8 hours. My squad hasn't been half full once. So no, I'm telling players to go away because truthfully; I rather replace them with people who are useful and in queue.

 

You are correct, all those core players, "must play ranger" players, "too shy to interact with others" and so forth are a waste to my zergs and plenty of others. I have no issues getting players and I have no intention of playing with hypercasuals who go around demanding stuff but refuse to coordinate. Go follow another blob.

 

OH WAIT. There are no other blobs. The only comm UW has is roxana butterfly on core ranger; and they barely tagged because they can't get 5 players to follow. Why is it that these players /must/ follow the meta zergs while demanding their non-meta? Why is it that I get 50+ players without struggle; even if I ask half of them to LEAVE ME while roxana allows ANYONE to follow yet literally stopped leading this mu because nobody follows? Right - casuals are toxic as well. Only interested in joining whoever gives them bags. My bad!

 

And yes, casual players who can't adapt are a handicap, not a help for fights. They're nice for PPT; but PPT backfires.

 

So... Make toxic squad on vabbi get 50 players. Casual squad that allows anyone on vabbi? not even 5 players cause it's a core ranger leading it.

 

Oh and by the way; 4 public comms tried to make UW a nice main server. They gave up in under 2 months. Every single comm quit leading public and all of them left UW. At some point you have to wonder : maybe the problem is us? ;)

 

> My server, Underworld, gets often paired with Vabbi and it is tragicomic to watch such ill conceived way to push to higher tier.

 

We decide what tier we go. UW can't even PPT if they wanted to. They also managed to make every single one of the comms they had ragequit the server and leading all together. So you're a server with no guilds, no comms, no coordination, no PPT'ers and no community. Tell me again why I should cater to UW? Tell me why I should go up in tiers? lul.

[Etheri.5406]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Toxicity is never a success. All it will do is push everybody away and you'll be left with only yourself to play with. Which I guess some people enjoy.

 

You mean casuals moving to servers with elitists, demanding everyone play casual until the entire community leaves?

 

Hmh; I wonder why a certain T1 main server which was stacked with guilds and public commanders throughout HoT is now medium AND has not a single public commander left. One can only wonder why that is. :trollface:

 

No actually; that's what catering to casuals does. FSP : MEDIUM.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > Time for an update with the latest EU trends.

> >

> > With gvg / hardcore fight guilds dying

> I think you are a little behind the trend, GvGs died like... 4 years ago. Maybe 5.

>

> > @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > As stated previously - the massive transfers towards FSP lead to most of the dedicated FSP community which made it strong originally leaving. After them leaving, these servers tend to implode quickly. Perhaps after it further implodes, some guilds will return? Perhaps it will turn into another pug-dominant server no comm or guild wants to go near. Only time will tell.

> Perhaps the same thing will happen that has happened every time in this lava lamp tier system of bandwagoners? Yes, thats actually quite likely. Because it happens... every time. Over. And over. And over. Again.

 

You insisted your server was nice. It went from a strong, stacked main server stable in T1-T2 to what I assume will be a link server next relinks. Does anyone still want to lead for you? Is there a single commander left? I doubt it. One of the vabbi comms went there but... yeah that won't last long either.

 

Friends, EU WvW is both far more active and far more dead than NA. You want to play super casual; I get that. Here's the thing : nobody wants to lead and put up with a huge army of hypercasuals with insane expectations and no respect for the effort you do. The result? Nobody wants to put up with you.

 

Because your expectations are huge; you refuse to join when you're not already winning and you demand to put in NO effort. In reality; that just puts all the effort on the group that has to carry your ass. And none of them want to.

 

Name 3 pugmanders on an EU T1 main server. Each of them get 3-4 queues on reset. Name THREE pugmanders that lead frequently. I can't.

Name 3 pugmanders that play in T1 EU and that interact with their pugs. KISS doing closed with 40 players with pugs following - does that count?

 

You tell me

 

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> 2 things

>

> 1. choose your buddies, they will back you up.

> 2. block those who make this game mode unfun for you.

>

> enjoy =)

 

I'll state it again. NOBODY wants to lead for the thousands of exceptionally demanding players that play WvW nowadays. It doesn't matter where you transfer, you have two options only :

A ) No pugmanders, no community, no guilds, no pugs learning anything. Just a full-pug roam server that falls apart the moment they're against half-organised enemies.

B ) Pugmanders that do their very best to avoid as many of the overdemanding casuals as possible.

 

Almost all servers are already at A status. There are no comms for you. You can call me toxic; but it's the overdemanding players refusing to put in ANY effort or appreciation for these players that made them quit.

[Etheri.5406]

Casuals could... support casual commanders. Hahahahhaha just kidding. There's no free loot in that.

It's funny how I'll get entitled players demanding they can join almost EVERY time I lead; yet commanders who lead for "everyone" but aren't as experienced or toxic can't even get 10 players. Fun how you "must" follow the large zerg that can carry your ass but refuse to follow any casual comm who allows anyone to play.

 

Casuals could... actually listen when hardcore players give them advise on what and how to do things and try to improve.

Hahahahahaha just kidding. As the above; you either get carried or you afk in keep and wait until you do.

 

Casuals could understand that some players want to play more hardcore; and that perhaps this commander isn't leading for them but for other players.

Oh no fuck that, the hardcore commander actually gets loot! Quick get him! And if that annoys them? HOW TOXIC AND ELITIST. How dare they wanna play the game non-casually?

Did you know there are F2P players who wanna join hardcore guilds too? some of them are too casual and stuck on rare gear, it's not their fault!

:trollface:

 

I still wonder... Why are there more commanders for the small fraction of toxic elitists than there are for the huge mass of casuals? Oh wait; because the casuals who follow leads are the most toxic players in the gaem.

[Excellent Name.9574]

 

>

> We decide what tier we go. UW can't even PPT if they wanted to. They also managed to make every single one of the comms they had ragequit the server and leading all together. So you're a server with no guilds, no comms, no coordination, no PPT'ers and no community. Tell me again why I should cater to UW? Tell me why I should go up in tiers? lul.

 

 

Your entire post just confirmed what I wrote, thank You for that. The only thing I agree with You is Your sentiment about UW and it is because UW was always predominantly PVE server, everyone who wanted WvW as primary activity moved, mostly to Desolation within the first year of the game and that hasn't changed to this day.

 

Oh and btw, anyone can tag up during weekends and have a full squad, literally anyone. Don't brag about it.

 

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Excellent Name.9574" said:

>

> >

> > We decide what tier we go. UW can't even PPT if they wanted to. They also managed to make every single one of the comms they had ragequit the server and leading all together. So you're a server with no guilds, no comms, no coordination, no PPT'ers and no community. Tell me again why I should cater to UW? Tell me why I should go up in tiers? lul.

>

>

> Your entire post just confirmed what I wrote, thank You for that. The only thing I agree with You is Your sentiment about UW and it is because UW was always predominantly PVE server, everyone who wanted WvW as primary activity moved, mostly to Desolation within the first year of the game and that hasn't changed to this day.

>

 

Yes, and I lead for the hundreds of players i interact with daily; who come on disc and talk to me and play together. How dare I cater to those rather than to you? Yet still; I'll lead PUBLIC and allow ANYONE. I just have two simple requests : LISTEN on discord and come on one of the specs / builds we ask for. Which is more stuff we do for others; give them builds and give them disc / voice to interact with others with. And even UW players are welcome there; they just all have to obey the same rules. If they don't then yes, you're not welcome. I have enough players waiting in queue that will follow these basic guidelines.

 

> Oh and btw, anyone can tag up during weekends and have a full squad, literally anyone. Don't brag about it.

 

That's a lie. Go on vabbi and show me your full squad.

Go on FSP and show me your full squad.

Go on gankdara and show me your full squad.

 

I'd like to see it :trollface:

 

50 players - sure

Queue - definitely

full squad ? maybe. Full squad that isn't 1/3 next to useless specs? I highly doubt it.

 

As I said, "squads half full" yada yada. Except it isn't half full.

Tag up; show me your full squad. I'm yet to see a single UW comm get 50/50 players at any time.