Where's the Taunt?

[Rauderi.8706]

A bit too late to ask for it now, what with the balance patch coming *tomorrow*, but there's something that's been bothering me.

See, I jumped into a pile of enemies on my Spellbreaker, smacked a bunch around, and then it hit me...

Or, rather, it *didn't* hit me. Not *one* critter out of a pack of 6+ turned to hit me.

 

So of course, I get to thinking, "wouldn't it be great if I could Taunt critters into hitting my Full Counter?"

Except one problem:

**Warrior doesn't get access to reliable Taunt.*

And I don't mean Berserker's Bloody Roar. That's not reliable, because popping Berserker for dps is just a thing you're supposed to do.

 

I keep expecting some balance re-work to put Taunt somewhere in Warrior's baseline traits/skills, but that hasn't happened, and Spellbreaker kinda needs it in some scenarios.

 

[RedShark.9548]

sb has a taunt...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imminent_Threat

[eksn.7264]

Speaking from a PvP perspective, I think warrior could've used a taunt elite a long time ago. The ones they gave us are really hard to slot in without losing major utility.

[Traveller.7496]

Imminent threat is great for making others hit your Full counter in WvW too, but it's very hard to justify dropping another of your good utility skills for it.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> sb has a taunt...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imminent_Threat

 

Ah, so there is. Didn't come up on a quick search on the wiki.

 

Of course, looking at it, 35s cooldown... I suppose that counts as "reliable" in the sense that it's a utility trigger. I'm up there with @"eksn.7264" on some sort of base-class taunt elite skill. Or at least giving the Meditation multiple charges. And while the retaliation on it is cute, Retal doesn't function very well in a game that discourages getting hit at all. Ideally, you'd pop a taunt to draw enemies into blocks or the Full Counter, which evades, both of which don't inflict retaliation damage.

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > sb has a taunt...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imminent_Threat

>

> Ah, so there is. Didn't come up on a quick search on the wiki.

>

> Of course, looking at it, 35s cooldown... I suppose that counts as "reliable" in the sense that it's a utility trigger. I'm up there with @"eksn.7264" on some sort of base-class taunt elite skill. Or at least giving the Meditation multiple charges. And while the retaliation on it is cute, Retal doesn't function very well in a game that discourages getting hit at all. Ideally, you'd pop a taunt to draw enemies into blocks or the Full Counter, which evades, both of which don't inflict retaliation damage.

>

 

you asked for a taunt, i gave you one...never said its good *shrug*

 

edit: look for the specific page of the condition or boon you are looking for, there you'll find every source of skill, trait, etc. that inflicts that condi/boon

[starlinvf.1358]

There are multiple in the design that contribute to this, not just the lacking of Taunt on skills. It took a LONG time to even get Taunt added to the game, because they were doing everything they could think of it to discourage Tank and Spank. Defense stats scale slower then Offensive ones, so trading them renders you almost harmless to enemies. In a niche outside of PvP, this could had made sense as part of a team comp...... but theres a flaw. Enemy damage outscales defense stats over time. The game very much wanted to put emphasis on damage avoidance, as opposed to raw mitigation (which promotes static player behavior). This exemplified in how we measure lethality in the various game modes. DPS is used to measure outgoing damage in PvE, but number of hits or size of hits are used to discuss incoming damage. In PvP it goes by damage burst per hit. WvW tends to measure in approximate TTKs, paired with damage source by category. The difference in damage and health scales between PvE enemies and other players in PvP/WvW (both incoming and outgoing) have a difference measurable in orders of magnitude.

 

When you consider this about the design, Retal was NOT meant to be major damage source in PvE. Nothing about PvE mob behavior contributes well to it, even if you include "taunt" from the beginning. Same goes for Confusion. Mobs attack too slow, the damage of those effects are too low compared to health pool, and their uptime would have to be 100% to even be on the radar as effective. Plus Retal requires taking hits, which no class is well equipped to withstand for prolonged periods.

 

Now look at the behaviors of players in PvP. They fight in short, but rapid bursts of damage. Many favor multi-hit skills to foil Aegis' and expend other traits which might negate heavy hitting attacks, and soften the target for a major blow. They have a strong tendency to chain skills back to back in combos, or will expend skills to clear pressure. Auto attacks are also 3 separate skills, with some striking multiple times, which lets both effects be punishing without relying on players activating skills. Both Retal and Confusion are strong in that mode, because it forces the enemy to be conscious of their attacks. You give Retal to PvE mobs, and players will very easily kill themselves..... I've seen it happen with the few champs that do use that boon. Confusion is only less threatening to players in PvE, because theres not nearly as much pressure to cover it nor will it go unnoticed.

 

Taunt was only really added to be a mechanical compliment to PvE monster skills, giving them additional CCs to work with. For instance, Giants in Core Tyria use Fear; but the rest of their skills nearly all have dispersion effects..... punishes melee hard, but basically harmless to ranged players. Giants in PoF use Taunt to draw everyone into melee range, and sets them up for the PBAoe.

 

Simply put, Taunt was an after thought, and has very niche applications in both PvE and PvP type combat.