Methuselah.4376 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Funky.4861" said: > @ methuselah: yes. I wonder if this will make grieving stats obsolete as vipers will be required for condi duration for any class, not just necro. > The only benefit axe has now is it's 600 range, otherwise dagger (but that limits your playstyle options to only melee). > > When i read the patchnotes, my first thought was to just delete my beloved necro because it's simply not competitive in the damage dept (raids). Axe is at 900 range. It's still worth working into your rotation for axe 2, usually by switching to axe, using 2 and then popping shroud until swap is off cool down, leaving shroud for 2 again and then switch to greatsword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rym.1469 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Life Siphon change is both a substantial buff and deceptively significant nerf. Not being able to kite while using it and having to face the target is an odd balance change. I wonder why they did it, together with changing ele staff skill the same way. Overall rather unexpected further nerfs to Scourge, minor buffs to Reaper and the golem swims after 6 years of dry training. Oh and Epi change was a rather elegant nerf, keeping the soul of the skill without "standarizing" it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky.4861 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Well, epi got a significant nerf (unwarranted imo) which makes me wonder about it's desirability in raids now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah.4376 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Funky.4861" said: > Well, epi got a significant nerf (unwarranted imo) which makes me wonder about it's desirability in raids now... it's still good for adds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brujeria.7536 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Well lets see: Dagger slight buff (still useless) Power Reaper PvE damage buff (still useless dps wise) Scepter HUGE nerf, less boon corrupt, less condi application with skill 3 leads to multiple things: Core condi necro is even more useless, Scourge is way weaker, core necro + scourge in PvP is even more uesless. Epidemic is useless and feels way too sluggish now (the projectile in combination with that horrendrous 2012 cast time was already bad enough) Corrupt boon, now "frontloaded" but overall a cooldown nerf. (did i mention they already gutted core condi necro?) Dhuumfire: Yeah i mean why not, its not like scourge was overnerfed like 3 patches ago already, scourge is now officially useless in all game modes. Blood as Sand: yeah again, why nerf a trait that already was useless without a certain grandmaster? The trait is so bad now it could be swapped into death magic - No Buff to necro sustain, necro defense, or stability - No rework of Deathmagic - No rework of core shroud - massive nerf to core necro (i honestly didnt thought this was even possible) Well at least the Flesh golem underwater rework is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > @"Funky.4861" said: > > Well, epi got a significant nerf (unwarranted imo) which makes me wonder about it's desirability in raids now... > > it's still good for adds That's not what it was taken for and adds can be easily cleared by pulling them in with chronos This whole balance patch feels more like: make necro useless and only give him visual bling bling as compensation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah.4376 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > @"Funky.4861" said: > > > Well, epi got a significant nerf (unwarranted imo) which makes me wonder about it's desirability in raids now... > > > > it's still good for adds > > That's not what it was taken for and adds can be easily cleared by pulling them in with chronos > > This whole balance patch feels more like: make necro useless and only give him visual bling bling as compensation... I know. But. Let us have a shred of positivity T_T I am starting to even get used to the dhuumfire changes. It demands more skill timing, but in the long run it is easier to maintain life force this way. However...they should have made the burn apply longer or have more stacks...or both. If this was the only nerf to Scourge, I'd almost be fine with it, but you can't nerf epi like that, remove the biggest thing necro is wanted in raids for, and not only not giving us compensation within the condi department but nerf the other vital part of the scourge condi build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > The trait is so bad now it could be swapped into death magic Epic quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > > @"Funky.4861" said: > > > > Well, epi got a significant nerf (unwarranted imo) which makes me wonder about it's desirability in raids now... > > > > > > it's still good for adds > > > > That's not what it was taken for and adds can be easily cleared by pulling them in with chronos > > > > This whole balance patch feels more like: make necro useless and only give him visual bling bling as compensation... > > I know. But. Let us have a shred of positivity T_T > > I am starting to even get used to the dhuumfire changes. It demands more skill timing, but in the long run it is easier to maintain life force this way. However...they should have made the burn apply longer or have more stacks...or both. If this was the only nerf to Scourge, I'd almost be fine with it, but you can't nerf epi like that, remove the biggest thing necro is wanted in raids for, and not only not giving us compensation within the condi department but nerf the other vital part of the scourge condi build. I'm mean if they had given power reaper higher buffs, so he does 32-34k ok. But like this? No compensation at all. Even though it get almost same numbers on golem (scepter nerf sux) necro falls behind all the other classes because he doesn't have the ability to get rlly strong at 4 out of 16 bosses but at the other bosses necro wasnt that good and got out DPS by other classes. Now there won't be any necros anymore at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesacon.8735 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > - Life Siphon: Reduced the casting time from 3 seconds to 1.75 seconds. This skill will now cancel if the necromancer faces away from their target. > > > - Corrupt Boon: This skill now has two charges with a 0.5-second cooldown between uses. Each charge takes 18 seconds to recover. > > > > > > Party time! > > > > > > Tell me what you want, but D/Wh + A/F has become the most flexible power reaper setup. Axe2/Dagger2 spam all day! > > > > Dagger MH still sux. 2/3 skills useless (autoattacks and skill 3) > > And focus 4 also useless... > > And to think Ray of Judgement got a revamp, despite the old version being mechanically identical to Reaper's Touch. They really should have done both. Nearly instant 15% life force is better than people give it credit for. Focus 5 is typically only useful in spvp/wvw, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 The buff and nerf circus rolls on. Another absolute joke at "balance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Meanwhile good luck fighting spellbreakers now...gg anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesacon.8735 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"X T D.6458" said: > Meanwhile good luck fighting spellbreakers now...gg anet. It was a lost cause last balance patch. And the one before. And the one before. And the one before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Arzurag.7506" said: > > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > As a power reaper, it's only good things for me yay! > > As someone who mainly plays power-reaper, these patch-notes are a blessing. > Now, I only hope that Anet doesn´t give him too much love, I don´t want reaper to get nerfed. you shouldnt fear the nerfs, you should fear the buffs. just remember when net "improved" necro survivability when they destroyed vampric presence. and when they "nerfed" ele Meteor shower to be the ultimate one shoot skill against 50 players in this game...something went wrong here, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Aktium.9506" said: > > @"Aetatis.5418" said: > > dunno man, show me that 29k dps. > > i get 26k with raid-buffs and ol' axe-gs-rotation. > > with a slightly different rotation below 50%, i get 500dps extra (weaving in soul spiral after using gs4+5 in between gravedigger spam). >  > > > okay. you gotta show me what you are doing exactly. because i can not come up with any combo that pulls more than 26.5k dps > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Aetatis.5418" said: > > > @"Aktium.9506" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > Estimated power reaper DPS: still under 30k. > > > i dunno man > > > > > > i gave it a quick go and hit 29k with gs camp > > > > > > someone doing the actual thing with the axe and stuff should probably hit 30k > > > > > > > dunno man, show me that 29k dps. > > i get 26k with raid-buffs and ol' axe-gs-rotation. > > with a slightly different rotation below 50%, i get 500dps extra (weaving in soul spiral after using gs4+5 in between gravedigger spam). > > Death spiral damage buff apply above 50% thought. It's there that one need to focus on rotation for extra damage. Below 50% I guess nothing should be changed from the previous rotation. (Still don't think that the increase will pass through the 30k mark. But I welcome any video proving me wrong) i was talking about soul spiral below 50%. and yes i tried to use death spiral above 50%. first by camping gs and later with the axe rotation (with blood magic and with soul reaping alike). but it still doesnt work for me. i am sure i am missing something - or more likely overthinking it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Continues power reaping, Swollem after 6 years. Same give and take stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueanimus.4085 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"dceptaconroy.7928" said: > Continues power reaping, Swollem after 6 years. Same give and take stuff... power reaper died the day they added the 65% shroud drain... thats why everyone hates scourge. Scourge is the ONLY viable option left and they are slowly killing it as well. GG anet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I don't understand why anet is putting everything into scepter 3. Why overload a skill?. I almost bet the 2 corrupted boons gets changed to one next patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifleur.3894 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Anchoku.8142" said: > Please check my math, here. > > 1st Epi = 50% condi duration. > Bounced Epi = 50% condi duration > > 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.25 so Epidemic dps was effectively nerfed by 75%. before : 100% + 100% after : 50% + 25% difference : 125% 125 / 200 = 62.5% If I understood what you meant correctly, the damage done by Epidemic was actually reduced by 62.5%, which still is a big nerf. On a brighter note, I have to say I'm incredibly happy about the flesh shark. <3 <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Artifleur.3894" said: > > @"Anchoku.8142" said: > > Please check my math, here. > > > > 1st Epi = 50% condi duration. > > Bounced Epi = 50% condi duration > > > > 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.25 so Epidemic dps was effectively nerfed by 75%. > > before : 100% + 100% > after : 50% + 25% > difference : 125% > 125 / 200 = 62.5% > If I understood what you meant correctly, the damage done by Epidemic was actually reduced by 62.5%, which still is a big nerf. > > On a brighter note, I have to say I'm incredibly happy about the flesh shark. <3 <3 Nope, on the boss target, the damage dealt by epidemic is 25% in the end, because the first epidemic don't do anything to the boss. So the effective dps los of the epidemic used by the necromancers used to deal damage is reduced by 75%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroSummonsMors.7816 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Here I'm going to comment each part of balance patch: **-Life Siphon: Reduced the casting time from 3 seconds to 1.75 seconds. This skill will now cancel if the necromancer faces away from their target.** It was about time for the this reduction of cast time. A good change, still I'm waiting for this skill to heal allies too. But the only part wrong is the cancel skill casting when not facing the opponent, that's real bad. **-Life Slash: The damage of this skill has been increased by 35% in PvE only.** A nice increase in damage for Pve Reaper **-Soul Spiral: The damage of this skill has been increased by 50% in PvE only.** A nice increase in damage for Pve Reaper **-Death Spiral: This skill now deals increased damage to targets above 50% health, with the increase being 50% in PvE and 10% in PvP and WvW.** A bit of a poor increase damage in pvp and www and real good increase in pve **-Shade Skills: Fixed a bug that prevented these skills from working if the player became airborne just after using them.** It's a bug fix so I'm ok with it. **-Well Skills: These skills now use a different cast animation when underwater.** ok **-Putrid Curse: This skill no longer corrupts a boon into a condition.** i think it was fine, since the auto chain is long enough but anet seems to disagree. **-Feast of Corruption: This skill no longer automatically inflicts torment. It now corrupts boons before gaining life force and inflicting torment based upon the number of conditions on the necromancer's target. The number of boons corrupted is 2 in PvP and 3 in PvE and WvW.** Heavily disagreee on the pve side of this change, because in the end you lose 1 torment stack to gain a 2 boon corruption, that in pve are not that usefull. This change it's decent in pvp, for sure makes scepter 3 more of bulky boon corruption+torment. **-Sand Flare: This skill can now be used underwater.** It was about time, i don't even understand why this wasn't done from launch of Pof Scourge. **-Summon Flesh Golem: This skill can now be used underwater.** After 6 years of wait...I guess better than nothing **-Spectral Walk: The effect icon for this skill has been changed to match up with the skill icon.** ok, but franky who cares? **-Spectral Recall: Added a 0.5-second cooldown before this skill can be used after using Spectral Walk.** Fine to avoid that double clicking insta waste of the skill. But Anet since you look at it, and since your recent increase cooldown on this skill, spectral walk it's a niche skill almost used only for jukes, because if you truly want lf % from dmg you pick spectral armor. I'd say that you should have increase the duration of the active part of the skill to at least 20s and not 10s, and also increase the lf gain to at least 4%(which is half of spectral armor). i mean it's breakstun with 50s of cooldown, should I say more? **-Epidemic: Increased the travel speed of epidemic projectiles by 33%. This skill now reduces the duration of conditions it copies by 50%.** Well seems everyone hated epidemic, yeah for sure it was kinda overperforming, but it was also the only reason people picked up scourge. Of course as usual you didn't compensate for the nerf, but at this point I'm not expecting anything. **-Corrupt Boon: This skill now has two charges with a 0.5-second cooldown between uses. Each charge takes 18 seconds to recover.** This was a really good change, the possibility to chain single boon corruption is awesome, and to be honest that 5s more on cooldown it's not that big of a deal. **-Desert Shroud: The effects for this skill have been changed to better differentiate it from other scourge profession skills.** ok, i guess different tell on skills is always good for counter play. **-Siphoned Power: Increased the might granted by this trait from 2 stacks to 3 stacks.** We can reach full might stack in 8.3s instead of the 12.5s. I'm fine with this change, more might faster it's always good. **-Dhuumfire: This trait now has a cooldown when used in conjunction with the scourge specialization. This cooldown is set at 5 seconds in PvP and WvW and 3 seconds in PvE.** I get it you want to limitate condi damage in PvP and WvW. But the nerf in pve was unnecessary, since you already nerfed epidemic, there was no need to push scourge dps benchmark more down that it already was, considerting that without epidemic in raid you better pick everything that does more damage than scourge. **-Blood as Sand: This trait has been split and has had its damage reduction reduced from 5% per shade to 3% per shade in PvP and WvW.** This was a mediocre trait at launch, now that we've to keep only 2 shades to avoid the full cooldown, since you increased it, it's even worse. I mean for a 9% damage reduction (to be real only 6%) on a minor grandmaster it's kinda ridicolous in my opinion. **-Unending Corruption: Fixed a bug that prevented this trait from corrupting a boon on downed enemies.** Bug fix it's always welcome. Now let's talk about what you didn't do: So you look at dagger as weapon and think, well let's reduce life siphon cooldown(i enfatize it again: after 6 years), and that's good but you're fine with auto attack chain underperforming damage and having unnecessary long aftercast(after the third skill). Also can we please have a rework of dark pact to a teleport/shadowstep so this melee weapons has actually some kind of use, because let's be honest a melee weapon without a pull or a gapcloser it's unusable. I'm still waiting for a shouts revamp of reaper, go look past posts on it there's a ton about it. I'm still waiting for you to address the too much high reaper shroud degen. Don't get me started on when you're receving damage because it just annihilate the shourd... I'm still waiting for a decent focus 4 rework, since the one that you did, it's not enough. But clearly you can rework skills like ray of judgement for guardian, that wasn't even nearly as bad as necro focus 4. So anet let do this focus rework uh?thank you Core necro shroud skill cast time reduction and skill rework, I'm still waiting for this. Death magic rework: 404 not found. How much longer do we have to wait? Compensation for scourge nerfs in some form of mobility/defence or support not found I know I'm can sound pretty salty, and I am. Because after all this time not addressing problems, I've no more trust on your balance team abilities. I'll hope the next rework in plan are necro trait and abilities, the necromancer subforum it's full of suggestions, just at least read them and comment on it. Even if a suggestion cannot be made, explain why to us, talk to us please. Because right now it's like talking to a wall. Let's see us in the next future balance patch... For those that read the wall of text, thank you. I hope to have a constructive discussion with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > I don't understand why anet is putting everything into scepter 3. Why overload a skill?. > I almost bet the 2 corrupted boons gets changed to one next patch. At a guess I'd say to promote more active play. Loading unique effects like boon corrupts onto auto attacks is generally a bad idea, since people will just spam auto instead. Or maybe its so that now you have on demand corrupt instead of having to complete a chain. > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said: > Also can we please have a rework of dark pact to a teleport/shadowstep so this melee weapons has actually some kind of use, because let's be honest a melee weapon without a pull or a gapcloser it's unusable. No thanks. As an avid user of dagger, I do not want my favourite skill revamped. A focus 4 change to remove the bounce and projectile in favour of a single non projectile hit (like focus 5) I would be very much in favour of though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Palamaon.8934 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Wouldn't also a quick fix for necro be allowing your secondary skills to be used in shade form. Like when i switch to Reaper (power reaper to be precise) - it would be nice to allow me to drop wells/activate skills while in Reaper form. just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > I don't understand why anet is putting everything into scepter 3. Why overload a skill?. > > I almost bet the 2 corrupted boons gets changed to one next patch. > > At a guess I'd say to promote more active play. Loading unique effects like boon corrupts onto auto attacks is generally a bad idea, since people will just spam auto instead. Or maybe its so that now you have on demand corrupt instead of having to complete a chain. > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said: > > Also can we please have a rework of dark pact to a teleport/shadowstep so this melee weapons has actually some kind of use, because let's be honest a melee weapon without a pull or a gapcloser it's unusable. > > No thanks. As an avid user of dagger, I do not want my favourite skill revamped. > A focus 4 change to remove the bounce and projectile in favour of a single non projectile hit (like focus 5) I would be very much in favour of though. I agree with your guess on scepter, Lahmia. Corruption on an AA may have been the issue. Now, if only Arenanet could use the same guideline for boon generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkForcE.9210 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Because Anet see too much salty tears from other classes on scourge condition f-bomb Now they serve their requests and put us in state as it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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