Deadeye getting 39k parses...

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

I'll be frank. I think thief should get a 35-38k spec so its a viable option in raid, but not on a braindead skill rotation like this

It really boils down to spam utility off CD and press 111 5 111 5 111 5. You don't even need to be rooted

Rifle has similar difficulty. It simply doesn't encourage skillful gameplay and only give a crutch for players

Sure weaver can hit 36-40k on golem, but you have to agree that it has significantly more complex rotations with conjures and attunements

Other than significantly reduce gap between skill floor and ceiling, it also means as soon as the trait is reduced, thief is back into the unwanted scenario

And chances are thief will get very heavy nerf if that's all it takes to trump all other classes

We all know the feeling of drowning and hanging onto life ring, but ignoring the problem is very unhealthy

 

 

 

 

[vaxjani.9073]

Im almost sure thief wont have a hard rotation ever with the initiative system. There will always be 1 best weapon set for a build and 1 or at most 2 skills that are better for dps than the others and because no cd on those the best way is to only use those + auto attacks. I also think deadeye atm does too much damage and should be lowered by about 8-10%.

Also people saying thief has no utility and just dps is wrong. CC is a very important utility (especially in fractals) and thief can bring high amount (with basi venom + 1 more instead of spider venom) without losing much damage. Weaver really had no utility (except for giving prot with going into earth and having AoE damage if you count that). Deadeye's only weakness atm is AoE damage or cleave.

Personally i dont want DPS outliers that do WAY better than others in almost any situation.

[eldrjth.7384]

I think keep dagger deadeye dps high so long as other DE alternatives are bad i.e. at least leave it til the next balance patch. This could be 3 months away and it wouldnt matter since it doesnt break pvp balance in anyway and gives enough time to push for other weapon changes. Rifle was left broken for as long. I also dont think dps off where it should be anyway, youre talking about ideal raid conditions. Also why **ask** for nerfs to a class **only** to complain later when its underperforming? No wonder developers get **confused**. If anything buff rifle/SB/pistol/sword before making thief obsolete **again** in PvE. Players were asking for D/D to be the cream of the crop in terms of raid dmg for long while because it lacks utility + has weak aoe and is on a fragile profession and now that it is in a decent spot you have to ask for nerfs? lol

 

What I think is elementalist should top the dmg chart because its also fragile and the rotation is far more complex but ele also has better aoe by a long way. As mentioned above you cant really make thief all that complex when its using the initiative system and sharing CDs with skills.

 

 

 

[Xyonon.3987]

> I'll be frank. I think thief should get a 35-38k spec so its a viable option in raid, but not on a braindead skill rotation like this

> It really boils down to spam utility off CD and press 111 5 111 5 111 5.

 

This. I wanted some power thief buffs aswell, but with the current rotation scratching the 40k is broken.

 

Rifle can be higher than d/d since it's 0 utility and lots of drawbacks, but even that shouldn't be higher than 36-37k. d/d on the other hand has next to the super simple rotation access to heavy cc with the elite venom (thief guild is only a minor dps gain), so saying "we don't have no utility" is wrong. Aside from that it's not immobile and has 2 target cleave (not too impressive but enough for things like Sabetha etc). d/d would be taken on plenty of bosses with 34-35k already adn that's where it should be.

 

This is not a rant about thief, I love thief and I think power deserved more dps. However 38-40k is not balanced and I'm pretty while not everyone here want to admit it, everyone knows that.

[Griever.8150]

> @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> > I'll be frank. I think thief should get a 35-38k spec so its a viable option in raid, but not on a braindead skill rotation like this

> > It really boils down to spam utility off CD and press 111 5 111 5 111 5.

>

> This. I wanted some power thief buffs aswell, but with the current rotation scratching the 40k is broken.

>

> Rifle can be higher than d/d since it's 0 utility and lots of drawbacks, but even that shouldn't be higher than 36-37k. d/d on the other hand has next to the super simple rotation access to heavy cc with the elite venom (thief guild is only a minor dps gain), so saying "we don't have no utility" is wrong. Aside from that it's not immobile and has 2 target cleave (not too impressive but enough for things like Sabetha etc). d/d would be taken on plenty of bosses with 34-35k already adn that's where it should be.

>

> This is not a rant about thief, I love thief and I think power deserved more dps. However 38-40k is not balanced and I'm pretty while not everyone here want to admit it, everyone knows that.

 

When the optimal raid setup becomes stacking 4 to 6 Deadeyes in raids like it was for months for Weavers and Scourges depending on the encounter, maybe then everyone screaming bloody murder and petitioning to send us back to the depth of the charts will be somewhat waranted (even though for some reason nobody saw an issue with the previous situation, go figure). In the meantime i'll enjoy the fact that the character i spent thousand of hours on is finally wanted in PvE, even if i do wish our damage came from having a more interesting rotation than that and do wish they will tweak thing accordingly, i'll take this situation over "lolDeadeyelol" and sometime outright being kicked just for being a Thief (while still sitting in the Fractal lobby, so no, player skill wasn't involved in these situations).

[Xyonon.3987]

Neither being "forced" to stack Weavers or Scourges, nor Deadeyes is healthy for the game. I agree that it's nice to finally have power Thief (Deadeye) in Raids (condi was already fine and had serval spots hand in hand with Mirage). But Deadeye is atm ruining the whole raid scene with this and preventing diversity from happening which we are so close to acheive after those Weaver nerfs. and Epi fix.

 

This needs a hotfix. They can't possibly leave this like that for a whole 3 months til the next patch. I don't want thief to be gutted and they don't need to come up with a new concept that creates an engaging rotation right away, **but @ArenaNet: please change the trait Exposed Weakness that grants 2% per condition to 1% (or just revert it), so the dps will just drop by ~10% again for now.** (Or any other trait that produces the same results.)

[DutchRiders.2871]

> @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> Neither being "forced" to stack Weavers or Scourges, nor Deadeyes is healthy for the game. I agree that it's nice to finally have power Thief (Deadeye) in Raids (condi was already fine and had serval spots hand in hand with Mirage). But Deadeye is atm ruining the whole raid scene with this and preventing diversity from happening which we are so close to acheive after those Weaver nerfs. and Epi fix.

>

> This needs a hotfix. They can't possibly leave this like that for a whole 3 months til the next patch. I don't want thief to be gutted and they don't need to come up with a new concept that creates an engaging rotation right away, **but @ArenaNet: please change the trait Exposed Weakness that grants 2% per condition to 1% (or just revert it), so the dps will just drop by ~10% again for now.** (Or any other trait that produces the same results.)

 

Mirrage is one of the dps specs limiting diversity.

[Omnicron.2467]

My only gripe is how boring the rotation is, I saw this coming when the malicious backstab was introduced, and was not impressed. It makes daggers more in line with other stealth game mechanics, but I do not think this works for PvE in GW2. In DnD games it works because the turn based mechanics at rules of the game allows massive backstab damage spikes in fun ways which require good positioning and planning, not this brain-dead bs.

[polvere.2805]

You will never see deadeyes stacked as they need conditions on the boss to get higher numbers, so you will likely need to run also some condispecs. Also deadeyes bring absolutely nothing to the table, not even fire fields to blast or protection like weaver does on attunement swap (having 4 weavers meant perma prot). Not a wise choiche to stack deadeyes. 2-3 max imho

[Kallist.5917]

There is straight up no pleasing you people, you sit here min-maxing, then complain that its too strong, even with three other classes above it in DPS, that also bring far more than damage to the group. Class is too weak, class is too strong, then go play another class. The thief's mechanics are not going to allow for the nuclear-launch-code style rotation like the Engie has. The only way its going to pull that off is if they rebuilt the class from the ground up removing the init system. You want Skilled gameplay? then drop your weapons and go run fractals and dungeons with utilities and traits.

[Kameko.8314]

> @"Kallist.5917" said:

> There is straight up no pleasing you people, you sit here min-maxing, then complain that its too strong, even with three other classes above it in DPS, that also bring far more than damage to the group. Class is too weak, class is too strong, then go play another class. The thief's mechanics are not going to allow for the nuclear-launch-code style rotation like the Engie has. The only way its going to pull that off is if they rebuilt the class from the ground up removing the init system. You want Skilled gameplay? then drop your weapons and go run fractals and dungeons with utilities and traits.

 

I think this is the key right here. Thanks for hitting it. It doesn't matter what you play, I think people want to have somewhat equal ability within the classes. This class should be top of the charts because of x-y-z... That's just causing you to go for that class and learn how to overcome it's x-y-z whether it be weavers for squishy okay whatever, people just learn how to do mechanics better and avoid that squishy aspect. Necros are the best condi and should be because x-y-z well you just going to learn how to take out the problems and exploit them being the 'best' or should be best category.

 

I hope and I really do wish arena net pushes up other classes . They can leave weaver if possible where it is at. At the same time bring other classes out of the dirt so that they can also be on par, why should one class be getting designated "You should be on top"? I mean we all have this illusion in our heads that it should be because it sounds like it should be, but how about equalizing at least one part of the class to be 'top dps' so that anyone playing any class can hit a high number. Sure they may have more 'utility' if they spec differently, but will then be at a cost of their dps being slightly lower.

 

The only alternative in my opinion is do what they're doing... Flavor of the Month. Or like any other MMO, flavor of the month. And hope that your time comes soon. I mean the problem with all these different spec lines and combinations something is going to be the 'top'. And you know what, everyone will want to play 'the top' thing. Whereas, saying eff you to a whole bunch of people and the community because you don't play 'the top'. This is why I disliked them allowing dps meters or benchmarks. It is a double edged sword. People get number happy and it's sickening. Whatever happened to let's go and kill this boss, we need x/y/z boons or utility. Okay we got that so we can clear mechanics or whatever it may be. Now let's go balls deep with the dps we have. If dps comes short, then who to blame? Whelp, this is where it sucks where you would not have a dps meter but anyway... going to end the rant but this such in depth analysis is good I get it. But not everyone is going to walk away happy.

[Xyonon.3987]

> @"polvere.2805" said:

> Also deadeyes bring absolutely nothing to the table...

750 cc?

 

[Vermagus.7804]

> @"Kallist.5917" said:

> There is straight up no pleasing you people, you sit here min-maxing, then complain that its too strong, even with three other classes above it in DPS, that also bring far more than damage to the group. Class is too weak, class is too strong, then go play another class. The thief's mechanics are not going to allow for the nuclear-launch-code style rotation like the Engie has. The only way its going to pull that off is if they rebuilt the class from the ground up removing the init system. You want Skilled gameplay? then drop your weapons and go run fractals and dungeons with utilities and traits.

 

100% agree, finally the class/spec gets some well deserved pve boost and now individuals are complain that the rotation is too simple or omg the DPS is too high. I just don't understand the logic behind it all. Just play another class or build this is just not for you.

[polvere.2805]

> @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> 750 cc?

 

And ?

0 fields, blast only before the fight (has to equip shortbow), has to sacrifice a strong dps utility (thieves guild) for that cc. Gives 0 BOONS TO THE WHOLE SQUAD, every other single dps class can give boons to squad in some ways. Has a low cleave target number and backstab can't cleave. Rifle can't cleave, the cc requires at least a decent positioning from the squad to reach the 750 cc. Thief now is not trash like it was before finally i should say.

 

Honestly i don't get all this hate toward thief and his damage that finally has reached an acceptable number while weaver has been ok for all this time while pulling off way way crazier shit

 

 

[Platanos.8107]

Uhh... did you come visit the thief forum just to complain about it being OP? And are you seriously complaining about rifle dps?! The one where you have to sacrifice all your dodges, all your utilities for single target damage? Not a single break, almost no cleave, and no dodges. Having any sort of add next to the boss makes your dps go down to the dumpster, and you're going to lose out on boons if you're going to jump out of the group so you get a good line of sight.

 

I'm going to preface this with I do think d/d dps should be taken down about 1-2k dps. I also think raids should be balanced to great (think about the best pug you've ever seen) dps being around 33k, with golem benchmarks for all classes be between 30-34k. Now...

 

Is no one going to mention that you need your support squad members to be on point, or that you need diverse raid comp for boons and condis?

* Compared to other classes, losing quickness makes us also lose 1% bonus damage, 200 power, 200 precision. That's about another 9% dps loss including the regular dps loss from no quickness.

* Stacking thieves is going to put condis at about 6 (thieves only bring poison, vulnerability, weakness), which is another -6% bonus damage.

* Going down is about a flat 15% dps loss until your steal is back up because you lose your mark.

* Boons. I'm not going to talk much about this. This is more of a chrono outputting way too many damn boons problems than deadeye benefiting from boons problem.

 

And some other things that i may have mentioned before

* Almost no cleave

* stacking dps is crap (to clarify, it should be crap. but currently deadeye does do a _little_ too much dps, and chronos give way too many boons. so currently stacking is probably still "optimal")

* Transitioning to an add phase is about 32k tops until you can remark.

* About 4 bosses have rng fixation prevents you from stealthing. Unless you want to run no breaks, you just lost about 15% flat dps there.

 

Also please post a video or something before you complain about something doing 39k. Condi warrior could hit 41.5k dps yet no one complained bout it because it needed all the stars in he universe to line up.

 

 

[Xyonon.3987]

> @"polvere.2805" said:

>...has to sacrifice a strong dps utility (thieves guild) for that cc...

Thieves guild is not a strong dps skill.

 

> @"Platanos.8107" said:

> I'm going to preface this with I do think d/d dps should be taken down about 1-2k dps. I also think raids should be balanced to great (think about the best pug you've ever seen) dps being around 33k, with golem benchmarks for all classes be between 30-34k. Now...

I agree and that's why I'm into the subject. We were never so close to "perfect" balance than now (played the big boys myself: weaver, scourge and mirage had to be tuned down) and thief (power) deserved some bufft, yet it just got overtuned. So I'd rather see it adjusted now rather than in 3 months.

 

> @"Platanos.8107" said:

> Is no one going to mention that you need your support squad members to be on point, or that you need diverse raid comp for boons and condis?

> * Compared to other classes, losing quickness makes us also lose 1% bonus damage, 200 power, 200 precision. That's about another 9% dps loss including the regular dps loss from no quickness.

> * Stacking thieves is going to put condis at about 6 (thieves only bring poison, vulnerability, weakness), which is another -6% bonus damage.

> * Going down is about a flat 15% dps loss until your steal is back up because you lose your mark.

> * Boons. I'm not going to talk much about this. This is more of a chrono outputting way too many kitten boons problems than deadeye benefiting from boons problem.

These arguments are not really solid.

* Losing quickness is a massive dps loss to all professions, it depends more on how auto attack reliant they are than anything else. I wouldn't balance around quickness downtime tho. Otherwise things like sword Holo or power dps Chrono should have like 25k dps "cuz they have quickness for themselves".

* Going down is a dps loss for everyone aswell (well atm maybe not for Weaver :D) you don't balance around "might go down or not". You also can't really balance around pure difficulty, like saying "thief has low hp, goes down quicker". If you'd balance around difficulty, I claim 38k dps for Condi Engi aswell which would be dumb.

* Boons is the same argument aswell. You don't balance around boons downtime, you do around realistic boon uptime.

 

> @"Platanos.8107" said:

> And some other things that i may have mentioned before

> * Almost no cleave

> * stacking dps is crap (to clarify, it should be crap. but currently deadeye does do a _little_ too much dps, and chronos give way too many boons. so currently stacking is probably still "optimal")

> * Transitioning to an add phase is about 32k tops until you can remark.

> * About 4 bosses have rng fixation prevents you from stealthing. Unless you want to run no breaks, you just lost about 15% flat dps there.

Those are the arguments I can agree with.

* No cleave is surely something that makes you deserve more dps. That forces players to use different specs which is a good thing. However for something like Sloth you could just take 1 Scourge and 5 DEs. Unfortunately the majority of the bosses don't really require any sort of cleave. But it is a valid argument.

* Remarking is also an argument. Maybe it would already help or justify DE's dps a bit more if you increase both the duration and the cd? Doesn't feel too good either tho, don't want them to have to wait ages for a Mark either. It would be an interesting drawback tho taht makes it good or bad for some fights, like a big drawback on gorse adds. But right now you still cleave them fairly well. hmhm...

* Fixation is also interesting to think about, thanks for the insight.

[Lucinellia.9247]

> @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> > @"polvere.2805" said:

> >...has to sacrifice a strong dps utility (thieves guild) for that cc...

> Thieves guild is not a strong dps skill.

>

> > @"Platanos.8107" said:

> > I'm going to preface this with I do think d/d dps should be taken down about 1-2k dps. I also think raids should be balanced to great (think about the best pug you've ever seen) dps being around 33k, with golem benchmarks for all classes be between 30-34k. Now...

> I agree and that's why I'm into the subject. We were never so close to "perfect" balance than now (played the big boys myself: weaver, scourge and mirage had to be tuned down) and thief (power) deserved some bufft, yet it just got overtuned. So I'd rather see it adjusted now rather than in 3 months.

>

> > @"Platanos.8107" said:

> > Is no one going to mention that you need your support squad members to be on point, or that you need diverse raid comp for boons and condis?

> > * Compared to other classes, losing quickness makes us also lose 1% bonus damage, 200 power, 200 precision. That's about another 9% dps loss including the regular dps loss from no quickness.

> > * Stacking thieves is going to put condis at about 6 (thieves only bring poison, vulnerability, weakness), which is another -6% bonus damage.

> > * Going down is about a flat 15% dps loss until your steal is back up because you lose your mark.

> > * Boons. I'm not going to talk much about this. This is more of a chrono outputting way too many kitten boons problems than deadeye benefiting from boons problem.

> These arguments are not really solid.

> * Losing quickness is a massive dps loss to all professions, it depends more on how auto attack reliant they are than anything else. I wouldn't balance around quickness downtime tho. Otherwise things like sword Holo or power dps Chrono should have like 25k dps "cuz they have quickness for themselves".

> * Going down is a dps loss for everyone aswell (well atm maybe not for Weaver :D) you don't balance around "might go down or not". You also can't really balance around pure difficulty, like saying "thief has low hp, goes down quicker". If you'd balance around difficulty, I claim 38k dps for Condi Engi aswell which would be dumb.

> * Boons is the same argument aswell. You don't balance around boons downtime, you do around realistic boon uptime.

>

> > @"Platanos.8107" said:

> > And some other things that i may have mentioned before

> > * Almost no cleave

> > * stacking dps is crap (to clarify, it should be crap. but currently deadeye does do a _little_ too much dps, and chronos give way too many boons. so currently stacking is probably still "optimal")

> > * Transitioning to an add phase is about 32k tops until you can remark.

> > * About 4 bosses have rng fixation prevents you from stealthing. Unless you want to run no breaks, you just lost about 15% flat dps there.

> Those are the arguments I can agree with.

> * No cleave is surely something that makes you deserve more dps. That forces players to use different specs which is a good thing. However for something like Sloth you could just take 1 Scourge and 5 DEs. Unfortunately the majority of the bosses don't really require any sort of cleave. But it is a valid argument.

> * Remarking is also an argument. Maybe it would already help or justify DE's dps a bit more if you increase both the duration and the cd? Doesn't feel too good either tho, don't want them to have to wait ages for a Mark either. It would be an interesting drawback tho taht makes it good or bad for some fights, like a big drawback on gorse adds. But right now you still cleave them fairly well. hmhm...

> * Fixation is also interesting to think about, thanks for the insight.

 

Just some quick points since I don't think it came across clearly;

 

Deadeye is punished even more so for losing quickness, not just mechanically with how it changes animations for Backstab, but because of Be Quick or Be Killed which provides us with a substantial amount of stats. Under BQoBK we are gaining 200 power and precision so without quickness, those go too.

 

Going into downstate is also overly punishing for Deadeyes because it removes Deadeye's Mark but does not refresh the cooldown. It isn't just a matter of picking up where you left off since if you are downed very soon after casting Deadeye's Mark you'll be missing out on Malice and Iron Sight modifiers on your Backstab target. This is basically the remarking argument and I don't think 32k is manageable under such circumstances.

 

All things to consider, but I fully agree that Deadeye is sitting too high currently. Closer to 34-35k seems reasonable for a heavy single target, no cleave and little utility rotation even if maximising it is very slightly harder in practice. @"Robert Gee.9246" please seriously consider toning down Exposed Weakness to 1% per condition or a flat 10%.

[vaxjani.9073]

> @"Platanos.8107" said:

> Also please post a video or something before you complain about something doing 39k. Condi warrior could hit 41.5k dps yet no one complained bout it because it needed all the stars in he universe to line up.

>

>

 

https://dps.report/91kZ-20180712-205611_vg

 

I know VG has less armor than other bosses (it has around 2k while most have 2.6k) but still being able to do around 46k in each phase is a bit over the top tbh.

Also the condi warrior benchmark was on huge hitbox where torch 4 hits 5 times (on large hitbox bosses it hits around 3 times only and maybe 4 on the largest ones like samarog) and LB F1 hits 2 times (the 1st and 3rd tile, this is almost impossible to do in raids) and it was an unrealistic benchmark. For weaver the benchmarks were done on huge hitbox to fight the RNG of its skills so it was unrealistic too.

The thief benchmark is pretty accurate on golem tho and not hard to achieve in a real raid scenario and it doesnt depend on hitbox size either.

 

I still want thief to be a viable dps and dont mind if it has a bit more than others that have high cleave too, but i dont want it to become over the top and be the next "weaver".

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

> @"Kallist.5917" said:

> There is straight up no pleasing you people, you sit here min-maxing, then complain that its too strong, even with three other classes above it in DPS, that also bring far more than damage to the group. Class is too weak, class is too strong, then go play another class. The thief's mechanics are not going to allow for the nuclear-launch-code style rotation like the Engie has. The only way its going to pull that off is if they rebuilt the class from the ground up removing the init system. You want Skilled gameplay? then drop your weapons and go run fractals and dungeons with utilities and traits.

 

* You don't break your own leg then go play soccer and call it skill.

* The three other classes that perform better got their nerf, so I wouldn't be surprised if thief is the 2nd top/top once benchmark settles.

* Thief also brings considerable CC, which with cleave or range/melee in odd bosses, are the only 3 other things being asked for dps in raid. Especially with epidemic in hell.

* Talking about boons in raid is also moot as chrono/druid/BS tend to cap all other boons and barely anyone consider boon when bringing dps.

 

There should be an actual balance rather than making players felt left out/stand out for the effort they put in. I agree thief rotation is not going to be too complex, I could say the same thing with almost other raid dps classes except ele/engi in this game. But able to outperform most dps classes with the easiest rotation of them all is not balance, its just trying to look like special snowflake. It leaves large tolerance for interrupt/cancels and will in general perform better than nuclear-launch-code classes in actual raid --> people jump on bandwagons regardless of their skills. Hence its the other end of balance, other end of thief being shafted by toxic elitists.

[Mhina.1827]

> @"Daccura.4769" said:

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > > @"Daccura.4769" said:

> > > My god I saw some stuff too. With realistic buffs/conditions someone managed to get 37.5k - this is where Thief should be!

> > > What is the purporse of the Thief? Dmg and yeah pure dmg. We have aside from group stealth, which is basically useless in PvE (excluding skipping mobs) nothing to offer for the group.

> > > So what can a Thief do? Bring dmg to the group - a lot.

> >

> > Yeah, and you have to factor in the fact that they have to stop all mobility and utility to get that.

>

> Exactly. People forget that for the most possible dmg output we have to exclude basically all utility.

 

I wrote a post detailing specifically why I think it's stupid of people to call for a nerf on thief as a result of finally having the role it's supposed to have in PvE. Normally I wouldn't care, but when people say nerf thief...they respond by REALLY nerfing thief. Like shit that wasn't even asked for. In any case the devs deleted the post because apparently I could potentially hurt some people's feelings. As if I could do anything as disrespectful as some of the nerfs thieves have received. Ha

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"polvere.2805" said:

> > @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> > 750 cc?

>

> And ?

> 0 fields, blast only before the fight (has to equip shortbow), has to sacrifice a strong dps utility (thieves guild) for that cc. Gives 0 BOONS TO THE WHOLE SQUAD, every other single dps class can give boons to squad in some ways. Has a low cleave target number and backstab can't cleave. Rifle can't cleave, the cc requires at least a decent positioning from the squad to reach the 750 cc. Thief now is not trash like it was before finally i should say.

>

> Honestly i don't get all this hate toward thief and his damage that finally has reached an acceptable number while weaver has been ok for all this time while pulling off way way crazier kitten

 

Fields, blasts and boons for the squad are all completely irrelevant. The number of encounters where cleave actually matters and where D/D cleave doesn't cut it is close to negligible. Squad positioning for BV is a no-brainer (or the squad is stupid and has other problems), though I'll admit that proper application of BV requires a modicum of thought also by your squad mates. Quite a few people will waste it on the wrong target or something else, if they have a choice.

 

Oh, and just like weaver/tempest dominance has _not_ been OK when it was a thing, thief being so far removed from anyone else is bad design. The numbers so far suggest that a 10% nerf would be a very healthy thing, especially considering the braindead gameplay of D/D.

 

[polvere.2805]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> Fields, blasts and boons for the squad are all completely irrelevant. The number of encounters where cleave actually matters and where D/D cleave doesn't cut it is close to negligible. Squad positioning for BV is a no-brainer (or the squad is stupid and has other problems), though I'll admit that proper application of BV requires a modicum of thought also by your squad mates. Quite a few people will waste it on the wrong target or something else, if they have a choice.

>

> Oh, and just like weaver/tempest dominance has _not_ been OK when it was a thing, thief being so far removed from anyone else is bad design. The numbers so far suggest that a 10% nerf would be a very healthy thing, especially considering the braindead gameplay of D/D.

 

I would be quite ok if they nerfed deadeye in order for him to reach a dps around 35-36 k (on the golem). Any less and he would be back to be considered a bad pick.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"faytte.1057" said:

> Makes me think these changes arn't being tested. Deadeye now, with a super simple rotation, is beating out almost every melee spec in the game, some of which have much more demanding rotations.

 

I don't get this logic. Why does a high DPS need to be accompanied with a hard rotation? What does melee specs have to do with it? These have never been factors in DPS in the past, why are they relevant now?

 

[Lucinellia.9247]

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > @"polvere.2805" said:

> > > @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> > > 750 cc?

> >

> > And ?

> > 0 fields, blast only before the fight (has to equip shortbow), has to sacrifice a strong dps utility (thieves guild) for that cc. Gives 0 BOONS TO THE WHOLE SQUAD, every other single dps class can give boons to squad in some ways. Has a low cleave target number and backstab can't cleave. Rifle can't cleave, the cc requires at least a decent positioning from the squad to reach the 750 cc. Thief now is not trash like it was before finally i should say.

> >

> > Honestly i don't get all this hate toward thief and his damage that finally has reached an acceptable number while weaver has been ok for all this time while pulling off way way crazier kitten

>

> Fields, blasts and boons for the squad are all completely irrelevant. The number of encounters where cleave actually matters and where D/D cleave doesn't cut it is close to negligible. Squad positioning for BV is a no-brainer (or the squad is stupid and has other problems), though I'll admit that proper application of BV requires a modicum of thought also by your squad mates. Quite a few people will waste it on the wrong target or something else, if they have a choice.

>

> Oh, and just like weaver/tempest dominance has _not_ been OK when it was a thing, thief being so far removed from anyone else is bad design. The numbers so far suggest that a 10% nerf would be a very healthy thing, especially considering the braindead gameplay of D/D.

>

 

I totally agree with the nerf but Deadeye stacking will never reach the level of Scourge, Mirage or Weaver stacking. Deadeyes are reliant on decent boons and conditions on the boss - this is already lower than benchmark in actual encounters and drops further if you try to stack Deadeyes. You also run into problems with both cleave and burst, which is why the SC 6-person clear of Stronghold of the Faithful used Weavers over Deadeyes. The single target (low cleave, low burst) nature of Deadeye is incredibly powerful on some bosses (such as Dhuum and Soulless Horror where Condition damage is arguably better anyway) but is a major limiting factor for smooth kills on other bosses like Sabetha and Xera. And as pointed out, Basilisk Venom is hardly reliable CC on many fights.

 

The other "problem" is people getting wound up over Deadeye pulling 46k DPS on targets like Vale Guardian. This shouldn't come as a surprise. This was approachable by Dagger/Dagger in the previous patch and Rifle before it was gutted. This isn't anything new and these bosses have been power crept since a few months, possibly weeks, after their release and haven't been tackled "properly" for a long time.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"faytte.1057" said:

> Makes me think these changes arn't being tested. Deadeye now, with a super simple rotation, is beating out almost every melee spec in the game, some of which have much more demanding rotations.

 

No cleave, blocked by adds if they get in the way

Must blow dodge on dps instead of using it correctly for defense

Roots you in place meaning any mechanic of any kind at all that can't be face tanked will force you to stop dpsing

 

So idk man, I think doing the most single target damage is actually appropriate given no other class has these problems