mes.4607 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 It only took about 30 minutes of using focus to notice that it probably won't work for DH... Shield is still better for DH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Its not that much better for core guard either the additional damage is meh at best when you don't have retal, and you can't spare the virtue pops to use RoJ when you need to be saving it for the Hammer burst. its one of those classic "looks good on paper/in theory but meh in practice" changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 If you run symbolic build on DH or just double 1h weapon sets (sw/x & sc/x), focus isn't half bad. That however isn't optimal and is mainly used for 1v1s. As fore core guard, I'd have to agree with Darkni. Honestly, the blind on old focus 4 may be universally more useful since it helped to have that defensive capability even if it wasn't useful in a pinch. I think once you get used to this new focus 4 it may be useful though, especially if you're going in for a burst and start on hammer, then end on sw/f. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarktastic.1027 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I use focus a lot in PvE as a firebrand. Then again, that may change now that focus 4 doesn't have that sweet blind. I was never really a fan of the guardian's shield, being that it has no skills that actually block things (aside from the aegis on shield 4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 It does okay damage, but suffers from the draw backs of direct damage (can be dodged/shielded after it hits) and condi damage, by being overtime. It is better than it was, but I would not call it good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidewaise.4801 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Isn't focus 4 one of the best weapon skills for proccing virtue of justice passive burn? total newb here, not trying to sound smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faytte.1057 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"hidewaise.4801" said: > Isn't focus 4 one of the best weapon skills for proccing virtue of justice passive burn? > total newb here, not trying to sound smart I think with the right trait if will proc it three times alone for a condi fb build, which generally traits justice to be an aoe. Maybe having axe/torch in one set and scepter /focus in the other will be better then double torch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"hidewaise.4801" said: > Isn't focus 4 one of the best weapon skills for proccing virtue of justice passive burn? > total newb here, not trying to sound smart It's good at proccing it, specifically hitting 9 times, which translates to 3 stacks of 2s burning if you have the VoJ trait. But in pve, swapping away from torch is asking for trouble with the Radiant Fire procs, which are hugely more impactful than RoJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faytte.1057 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Radiant fire has a 12 second cd I believe. Theoretically if you swap exactly at that time to throw up focus 4, it could work, but you would be screwing over your normal rotation between axe and scepter to do this, and would probably lose more damage. Sadly, not really a useful enough change, and even more sadly that Torch 5 was ignored. In fact, looking at Guardian Weapons, so many are completely uniteresting. Guardian is about 4 weapons because of how terrible the rest are in PvE: GS, Scepter, Torch, Axe. Bow is poor outside of WvW, Shield/Sword/Hammer/Focus(even buffed)/Staff are all just..terrible options in PvE. What I'm afraid of now is they will nerf our only good and interesting spec further (FB). If they do that I'll honestly just drop Guardian and play Warrior or Rev, or maybe Deadeye since that can now hit 39K parses while largely being a ranged friendly rotation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikau.6920 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 So, in a full Power DPS DH is torch still better? Torch 4 also still have lower CD than Focus 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mes.4607 Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Mikau.6920" said: > So, in a full Power DPS DH is torch still better? Torch 4 also still have lower CD than Focus 4. Oh, for PvE im going to start using focus personally... The reason torch may be better is that it'll be easier to get all of its hits to crit... since focus 4 pulses, there's a chance for lower DPS due to non crits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Orion.2049 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I played around with it yesterday and I've noticed its very rotation oriented. In order to maximize its damage, from what I've discovered using scepter, Chains of Light -> Symbol of Punishment -> Ray of Judgement. This is with Binding Jeopardy trait in Zeal. It does decent damage, and does well in PvE, but Fractals or Raids torch is still king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikau.6920 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Jake Orion.2049" said: > I played around with it yesterday and I've noticed its very rotation oriented. In order to maximize its damage, from what I've discovered using scepter, Chains of Light -> Symbol of Punishment -> Ray of Judgement. This is with Binding Jeopardy trait in Zeal. > > It does decent damage, and does well in PvE, but Fractals or Raids torch is still king. In other words the change was meaningless for PvE. But it might got worst on PvP and WvW because it lost the blind and condi removal. Sadness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 What focus 4 needed was an unblockable status and faster projectile speed, not this DoT thing that is basically just a recycled animation of the worst trap skill in the DH toolkit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasoki.5180 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 > @"Jake Orion.2049" said: > I played around with it yesterday and I've noticed its very rotation oriented. In order to maximize its damage, from what I've discovered using scepter, Chains of Light -> Symbol of Punishment -> Ray of Judgement. This is with Binding Jeopardy trait in Zeal. > > It does decent damage, and does well in PvE, but Fractals or Raids torch is still king. How is it possible that it does less damage then torch? I have tested it in fractals and was under impression that it does greater dps than torch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mes.4607 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 > @"kasoki.5180" said: > > @"Jake Orion.2049" said: > > I played around with it yesterday and I've noticed its very rotation oriented. In order to maximize its damage, from what I've discovered using scepter, Chains of Light -> Symbol of Punishment -> Ray of Judgement. This is with Binding Jeopardy trait in Zeal. > > > > It does decent damage, and does well in PvE, but Fractals or Raids torch is still king. > > How is it possible that it does less damage then torch? I have tested it in fractals and was under impression that it does greater dps than torch If the ticks don't crit or get blocked, etc. it'll do less damage. Its CD is also longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 > @"faytte.1057" said: > Sadly, not really a useful enough change, and even more sadly that Torch 5 was ignored. In fact, looking at Guardian Weapons, so many are completely uniteresting. Guardian is about 4 weapons because of how terrible the rest are in PvE: GS, Scepter, Torch, Axe. Bow is poor outside of WvW, Shield/Sword/Hammer/Focus(even buffed)/Staff are all just..terrible options in PvE. > Not all weapons need to be great for PvE. Sword and Focus have their place in PvP where weapons like Torch just suck. In fact, Sword is easily guardians best weapon for it(besides, I use sword for PvE as well but only OW because burst is king for random mobs). Hammer also works there currently. Staff, Shield and Longbow are also used there by Firebrand and Dragonhunter but it doesn't mean they don't need buffing. Especially Staff. It's a telling sign that you forgot Mace entirely, now there's a weapon that needs help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasoki.5180 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 > @"mrauls.6519" said: > > @"kasoki.5180" said: > > > @"Jake Orion.2049" said: > > > I played around with it yesterday and I've noticed its very rotation oriented. In order to maximize its damage, from what I've discovered using scepter, Chains of Light -> Symbol of Punishment -> Ray of Judgement. This is with Binding Jeopardy trait in Zeal. > > > > > > It does decent damage, and does well in PvE, but Fractals or Raids torch is still king. > > > > How is it possible that it does less damage then torch? I have tested it in fractals and was under impression that it does greater dps than torch > > If the ticks don't crit or get blocked, etc. it'll do less damage. Its CD is also longer But if it does crit it will do bigger dps, no? And also, if torch doesn't crit it it will do less damage. I dont think we can compare critical hit to a non critical hit scenario. Is there any link to actual comparison of the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Actually took the new skills for a spin in both pvp and wvw yesterday. Sadly this is one of those changes that seems like a big deal but really doesn't do that much for guard compared to before. I noticed that in most situations it is an improvement though. It really helps finish out a fight by essentially giving you 1 more tool to chase people with. Like others have said, it's decent on core guard but not so much on DH. It is crummy that you can't cast this skill unless your target is in range but that just means having to adapt to it since if you do begin casting, it's almost guaranteed that you'll hit your target. I've gotten the most out of this skill playing core medi guard. If you pressure a foe into the point of running, you can chase them with JI, hammer 3, swap to sw/f, sword 2 and at this point pre-patch, most would be able to escape, but now you can finish out the sequence with focus 4. Likely having both retal and fury up from being in combat, you'll crit most of the RoJ ticks and end up with 3k+ damage in just a second or two despite the opponent already opening a large gap between them and you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 The skill doesn't fit in to the core guard burst anyways. If you're bursting you've swapped to hammer already anyways and engaging with 4 would be a great way to lose unscathed contended early. And one you're on hammer you're better off staying on it to follow up mb's. Only used to kill runners who are out of options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikau.6920 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"kasoki.5180" said: > > @"mrauls.6519" said: > > > @"kasoki.5180" said: > > > > @"Jake Orion.2049" said: > > > > I played around with it yesterday and I've noticed its very rotation oriented. In order to maximize its damage, from what I've discovered using scepter, Chains of Light -> Symbol of Punishment -> Ray of Judgement. This is with Binding Jeopardy trait in Zeal. > > > > > > > > It does decent damage, and does well in PvE, but Fractals or Raids torch is still king. > > > > > > How is it possible that it does less damage then torch? I have tested it in fractals and was under impression that it does greater dps than torch > > > > If the ticks don't crit or get blocked, etc. it'll do less damage. Its CD is also longer > > But if it does crit it will do bigger dps, no? And also, if torch doesn't crit it it will do less damage. I dont think we can compare critical hit to a non critical hit scenario. Is there any link to actual comparison of the two? I tested with 100% crit chance to compare torch with the new focus (Full Power/Precision/Ferocity with retal traits). Torch did about the same damage because of the burning that it has, also, torch 4 have 15 sec CD and Focus 4 have 20 sec CD. So torch is better in this comparison. The only thing that Focus is better is the 5 that actually could be used on combat to increase damage (but you can't get hit 3 times until it triggers) and Torch 5 is basically useless. In the end, torch 4 > focus 4, but focus 5 > torch 5. I need more testing to see how it works on real scenario (in my case, Fractals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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