Power Reaper's problem is still going to be mostly about gravedigger(PvE edition)

[Warscythes.9307]

This is going to be more of a repost but since is patch day I figure maybe some dev will take a look at my rambling than not. To start with the compliment sandwich I would like to say the GS3 and RS4 buffs are great even if the numbers are not there yet. Giving GS3 as a viable damage button to use is great.

 

I have always been a supporter for mechanic fixes first and then number changes later. Is simple to just chuck modifiers to traits but much more difficult to create a fun and coherent rotation to play with. Reaper right now is around 15-20% damage lower than the average(31-33k); but that is simple to fix. I think the biggest problem is the rotation for under 50% remains to be still literally just spam gravedigger. This should to be the priority fix for reaper to be an interesting spec to play with other than just the theme. I think is fine to have a simple rotation; but there has to be something better than hitting literally 1 button. I have no idea exactly how to accomplish this as I am a believer that we consumers are usually really bad at providing solutions, but we are capable of pointing out problems. Whether it be something like warrior's peak performance where you have to maintain buffs, or doing something specific to reduce cds, there are options to explore and I'd leave you guys to it. I just wanted to do the reminder every patch.

 

Other than gravedigger I think Power reaper also faces a couple problems that probably should be addressed.

 

1. No good power offhand

Focus is quite unreliable due to the bounce mechanic and warhorn does pretty insubstantial damage. Please pick an offhand(probably focus) and just buff the crap out of it to be power offhand. Basically the same reason you guys buffed guardian's focus 4.

 

2. Signet of Spite does not have a coherent active

The passive provides power but the active is condi. Unless you expect us to use it in pvp as cover condi then the active should probably be changed to something that benefits power.

 

3. Depending on minions for dps feels kind of bad

Right now we use 3 minions(blood fiend, shadow fiend, flesh golem) to maximize damage. This is more of a personal opinion but I don't really like having to relay on minions for damage due to how uninteractive they are. An alternative to it would be nice. If not then please look a bit more into minions to make their actives a bit more interesting but I'd imagine that to be a larger rework.

 

4. RS5 is not used for damage

I feel like a skill called executioner's scythe should do a bit more damage than what it is now. I think in realistic scenario you probably still want to use it for the ice field so you can proc the 10% damage buff; but you'd figure that is a bit lame. Some sort of damage buff would be nice so you would actually use it for damage and not breakbars.

 

That's pretty much it. Enjoy your day.

 

PS: Can we have a scythe skin for greatsword? So we can scythe while we scythe? This has nothing to do with my name I swear.

[Dadnir.5038]

You know how anet might "fix" the gravedigger spam below 50%? By simply nerfing it's damage so that it no longer is the optimal way to deal damage below 50% without any other change outside.

[Brigg.3961]

As long as that nerf is split between game modes, have at it!

[Catchyfx.5768]

Lets wait till someone find "new" rotation. Only have this question is RS4 still dmg loss below 50%HP Boss?

[Arzurag.7506]

I think that buffing reaper's damage could be problematic. Currently, he actually does heavy damage, just not over time and the damage is not distributed evenly between reaper's abilities.

 

So, before adjusting his damage, gravedigger should be nerfed and other gs-abilities buffed.

By doing this, you're forced to make use of more than gravedigger, in order to deal decent damage again. After this is done, adjustments to modifiers can be made.

 

Reaper usually provides his damage in form of very powerful, single blows, which effectively lowers his dps but still shows that his damage overall is fine.

 

Maybe adjustments to the attack speed of gs are also possible.

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

>

> After this is done, adjustments to modifiers can be made.

>

 

Not this shit again, this patch you saw-> if something is taken from necro -> zero adjustmenst are happen to compensate. So if you lower greavedigger dps only adjustment will be AA chain dmg decrease 50% and for Entering to shroud you need to pay 1gold. BALANCE :D

[Aetatis.5418]

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

 

> Maybe adjustments to the attack speed of gs are also possible.

 

this. they could **start** and give the 3rd AA chain a 3/4 sec instead of 1sec. it is slower than any weapon anyway. it doesnt solve the gravedigger spam, but would help the rotation above 50% in pve a tiny bit. (and i doubt it would break any pvp or wvw scenario)

[XECOR.2814]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > @"Arzurag.7506" said:

>

> > Maybe adjustments to the attack speed of gs are also possible.

>

> this. they could **start** and give the 3rd AA chain a 3/4 sec instead of 1sec. it is slower than any weapon anyway. it doesnt solve the gravedigger spam, but would help the rotation above 50% in pve a tiny bit. (and i doubt it would break any pvp or wvw scenario)

 

They should've done this with reduced cast time on worldly impact of ranger in latest patch. Both skill are similar : hard hitting with slow cast.

[Lahmia.2193]

If anet **had** just given us damage trait buffs, it would be a much simpler solution to our dps woes.

[ZDragon.3046]

I say simply have it so that landing grave digger give the necromancer a dps buff effect for the duration of its cooldown. The duration is doubled when you hit a foe under 50% but the cd no longer refreshes.

This allows you to do other things than just spam grave digger without a massive raw dps loss via cutting its damage or removing the cd effect. Point blank it should not be spammable simply removing some damage form it wont change how its played without making people even more upset.

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> 3. Depending on minions for dps feels kind of bad

> Right now we use 3 minions(blood fiend, shadow fiend, flesh golem) to maximize damage. This is more of a personal opinion but I don't really like having to relay on minions for damage due to how uninteractive they are. An alternative to it would be nice. If not then please look a bit more into minions to make their actives a bit more interesting but I'd imagine that to be a larger rework.

just remember blood fiend is only used for golem testing, please always take blood is power when playing with people, because it's a free ress and a good heal. the minion does barely anything. less than 1% of your damage.

 

> 4. RS5 is not used for damage

> I feel like a skill called executioner's scythe should do a bit more damage than what it is now. I think in realistic scenario you probably still want to use it for the ice field so you can proc the 10% damage buff; but you'd figure that is a bit lame. Some sort of damage buff would be nice so you would actually use it for damage and not breakbars.

 

while i agree it could get some damage boost (that would greatly outdps one chain auto), in real fights this is still used to upkeep 10% chill modifier and to CC.

 

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> You know how anet might "fix" the gravedigger spam below 50%? By simply nerfing it's damage so that it no longer is the optimal way to deal damage below 50% without any other change outside.

 

or they can remove the cooldown reduction below 50% and change functionality to summon pulsing AoE below 50% that deals 50% of what would gravedigger spam do until the next gravedigger is ready. - this way you can even go to shroud and make it tick more damage with ferocity.

[pah.4931]

Gravedigger is a problem in EVERY game mode. It is a terribly designed ability. I really, really, really wish they swapped it out with something else (a leap would be great but I know that doesn't go with the "fantasy" of reaper).

 

 

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> If anet **had** just given us damage trait buffs, it would be a much simpler solution to our dps woes.

 

But that's really not the problem. I know people like to cry and whine about dps but the reality is that it is incredibly simple to buff dps by adding modifiers. It is much more difficult to make a class fun to play while performing adequate dps.

 

> @"Sublimatio.6981" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > 3. Depending on minions for dps feels kind of bad

> > Right now we use 3 minions(blood fiend, shadow fiend, flesh golem) to maximize damage. This is more of a personal opinion but I don't really like having to relay on minions for damage due to how uninteractive they are. An alternative to it would be nice. If not then please look a bit more into minions to make their actives a bit more interesting but I'd imagine that to be a larger rework.

> just remember blood fiend is only used for golem testing, please always take blood is power when playing with people, because it's a free ress and a good heal. the minion does barely anything. less than 1% of your damage.

>

> > 4. RS5 is not used for damage

> > I feel like a skill called executioner's scythe should do a bit more damage than what it is now. I think in realistic scenario you probably still want to use it for the ice field so you can proc the 10% damage buff; but you'd figure that is a bit lame. Some sort of damage buff would be nice so you would actually use it for damage and not breakbars.

>

> while i agree it could get some damage boost (that would greatly outdps one chain auto), in real fights this is still used to upkeep 10% chill modifier and to CC.

>

 

Right, I didn't talk about blood well since golem dps test seems to be what people focus on these days. If we are going to talk about min/max then might as well have that factor in.

 

As for RS5, I am more worried for what's going to happen in the future where chill becomes a bit more abundant. Power rev for example seems to be viable dps now. We already have pretty decent chill uptime with GS and shadow fiend. If power rev is meta where they spam sword 2 for dps then RS5 would be regulated to just breakbars and that feels kind of awful; especially that would mean the shroud would effectively have only 1 damage skill minus the auto.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> But that's really not the problem. I know people like to cry and whine about dps but the reality is that it is incredibly simple to buff dps by adding modifiers. It is much more difficult to make a class fun to play while performing adequate dps.

>

 

Fun is subjective, dps is not in the same sense. I personally find power reaper the most fun necro setup I have played. So changing individual skills work would just be the long path to getting better dps, whereas adding a few more traits would be the shorter path. Both leading to exactly the same thing.

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > But that's really not the problem. I know people like to cry and whine about dps but the reality is that it is incredibly simple to buff dps by adding modifiers. It is much more difficult to make a class fun to play while performing adequate dps.

> >

>

> Fun is subjective, dps is not in the same sense. I personally find power reaper the most fun necro setup I have played. So changing individual skills work would just be the long path to getting better dps, whereas adding a few more traits would be the shorter path. Both leading to exactly the same thing.

 

I agree that fun is subjective; however I think the majority will agree that pressing 1 button for half your rotation is not fun. If I want to play that I'd go play Runescape. At least I have to prayer flick there.

 

The point of changing individual skill is to make the class more fun. If you think the current iteration of power reaper's rotation is the most fun it can be then we are clearly not on the same page. I think the current rotation under 50% is absolutely atrocious and it needs to be fixed before adding any new modifiers. We simply do not share the same goal. I care about dps and so do many others here; but I would much rather have them change gravedigger first than worry about any new modifiers.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > But that's really not the problem. I know people like to cry and whine about dps but the reality is that it is incredibly simple to buff dps by adding modifiers. It is much more difficult to make a class fun to play while performing adequate dps.

> > >

> >

> > Fun is subjective, dps is not in the same sense. I personally find power reaper the most fun necro setup I have played. So changing individual skills work would just be the long path to getting better dps, whereas adding a few more traits would be the shorter path. Both leading to exactly the same thing.

>

> I agree that fun is subjective; however I think the majority will agree that pressing 1 button for half your rotation is not fun. If I want to play that I'd go play Runescape. At least I have to prayer flick there.

>

> The point of changing individual skill is to make the class more fun. If you think the current iteration of power reaper's rotation is the most fun it can be then we are clearly not on the same page. I think the current rotation under 50% is absolutely atrocious and it needs to be fixed before adding any new modifiers. We simply do not share the same goal. I care about dps and so do many others here; but I would much rather have them change gravedigger first than worry about any new modifiers.

 

On the contrary I would say the majority of people here just want power reaper to be a better source of damage or rather a more desirable choice for end game content. The end goal of being viable is the main thing. How we get there is a secondary thing. And the faster it happens the better.

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > But that's really not the problem. I know people like to cry and whine about dps but the reality is that it is incredibly simple to buff dps by adding modifiers. It is much more difficult to make a class fun to play while performing adequate dps.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Fun is subjective, dps is not in the same sense. I personally find power reaper the most fun necro setup I have played. So changing individual skills work would just be the long path to getting better dps, whereas adding a few more traits would be the shorter path. Both leading to exactly the same thing.

> >

> > I agree that fun is subjective; however I think the majority will agree that pressing 1 button for half your rotation is not fun. If I want to play that I'd go play Runescape. At least I have to prayer flick there.

> >

> > The point of changing individual skill is to make the class more fun. If you think the current iteration of power reaper's rotation is the most fun it can be then we are clearly not on the same page. I think the current rotation under 50% is absolutely atrocious and it needs to be fixed before adding any new modifiers. We simply do not share the same goal. I care about dps and so do many others here; but I would much rather have them change gravedigger first than worry about any new modifiers.

>

> On the contrary I would say the majority of people here just want power reaper to be a better source of damage or rather a more desirable choice for end game content. The end goal of being viable is the main thing. How we get there is a secondary thing. And the faster it happens the better.

 

I think that is completely backwards. While I completely understand that people want to be viable; just adding modifiers without thinking about the rotation is just going to add the issue later. Fix the core problem right instead of laying bandage on the problem without curing the disease.

 

Let's step back a bit. Why do you think so many pick up power reapers in the first place. Because we are edgy kids that likes the theme and dark knights/death knights has always been a popular theme. I highly doubt many of us decided the class to play based on viable end game dps. We chose the cool looking class. The end goal is not be just be viable; but rather fun to play and viable. If I just want to go after the viable classes then I would play Fotm and hop from classes to classes. A fun to play spec is more important to have meta end game dps.

 

While I am not completely against adding some sort of bandage fix, not addressing the core issue is just going to add onto the problem later. It is why I remade this thread three times now so I hope they remember the rotation is the biggest problem as damage is simple to fix.

 

 

[killfil.3472]

What if Gravedigger hit targets below 50% twice? (The animation does suggest it hits twice)

The second hit could deal 150% of the first hit.

First strike = 5k

Second strike = 7.5k

Total = big booboos

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

>

> I think that is completely backwards. While I completely understand that people want to be viable; just adding modifiers without thinking about the rotation is just going to add the issue later. Fix the core problem right instead of laying bandage on the problem without curing the disease.

>

> Let's step back a bit. Why do you think so many pick up power reapers in the first place. Because we are edgy kids that likes the theme and dark knights/death knights has always been a popular theme. I highly doubt many of us decided the class to play based on viable end game dps. We chose the cool looking class. The end goal is not be just be viable; but rather fun to play and viable. If I just want to go after the viable classes then I would play Fotm and hop from classes to classes. A fun to play spec is more important to have meta end game dps.

>

> While I am not completely against adding some sort of bandage fix, not addressing the core issue is just going to add onto the problem later. It is why I remade this thread three times now so I hope they remember the rotation is the biggest problem as damage is simple to fix.

>

>

 

I can proudly say that I play reaper because it look cool! Now, strictly speaking, i don't imagine a "dark knight" as a character that deal "power" damage, instead I have the image of an unshackable character that sure can beat the shit out of it's foes but also have a kind of corroding aura that eat at their foes. For me a dark kniwght is both power and condition, but more than anything it's "difficult to kill". And the same goes for movie monsters, their most outstanding qualities is that they can take damage without twitching, I don't even look at the damage that a movie monster can deal, after all, movie monsters only take on critters that can't put on a fight.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"killfil.3472" said:

> What if Gravedigger hit targets below 50% twice? (The animation does suggest it hits twice)

> The second hit could deal 150% of the first hit.

> First strike = 5k

> Second strike = 7.5k

> Total = big booboos

 

It no doubt use to hit twice based on the Reaper trailer video.

Even the icon for it implies 2 blade swings. I want to think the reason it got cut from 2 hits to 1 is because either general mobs would die on the first hit and waste the 2nd or it was nearly impossible to land the hits on moving targets or it just didnt feel good in devs hands.

 

In any case the double hit never made it to the PTB weekends before HoT launched

 

Though 2 hits might not be the only solution here as it still leaves people stuck with spamming grave digger under 50%

If you remove the cd reduction during the cd it will result in a direct dps loss over the 6 seconds even if it hits twice which no one will want.

 

I suggest it remains as is animation wise and just stacks a buff on you when you confirm a hit with gravedigger that increases your outgoing damage overall for all skills. The effectiveness of the buff is doubled on when you land it on a foe under 50% the dps booster could be for the duration of the GD cool down about 6 seconds. % wise mabe 15% above 50% hp and 25-30% below 50% hp.

GD loses its power to reset its cd

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > > But that's really not the problem. I know people like to cry and whine about dps but the reality is that it is incredibly simple to buff dps by adding modifiers. It is much more difficult to make a class fun to play while performing adequate dps.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Fun is subjective, dps is not in the same sense. I personally find power reaper the most fun necro setup I have played. So changing individual skills work would just be the long path to getting better dps, whereas adding a few more traits would be the shorter path. Both leading to exactly the same thing.

> > >

> > > I agree that fun is subjective; however I think the majority will agree that pressing 1 button for half your rotation is not fun. If I want to play that I'd go play Runescape. At least I have to prayer flick there.

> > >

> > > The point of changing individual skill is to make the class more fun. If you think the current iteration of power reaper's rotation is the most fun it can be then we are clearly not on the same page. I think the current rotation under 50% is absolutely atrocious and it needs to be fixed before adding any new modifiers. We simply do not share the same goal. I care about dps and so do many others here; but I would much rather have them change gravedigger first than worry about any new modifiers.

> >

> > On the contrary I would say the majority of people here just want power reaper to be a better source of damage or rather a more desirable choice for end game content. The end goal of being viable is the main thing. How we get there is a secondary thing. And the faster it happens the better.

>

> I think that is completely backwards. While I completely understand that people want to be viable; just adding modifiers without thinking about the rotation is just going to add the issue later. Fix the core problem right instead of laying bandage on the problem without curing the disease.

>

> Let's step back a bit. Why do you think so many pick up power reapers in the first place. Because we are edgy kids that likes the theme and dark knights/death knights has always been a popular theme. I highly doubt many of us decided the class to play based on viable end game dps. We chose the cool looking class. The end goal is not be just be viable; but rather fun to play and viable. If I just want to go after the viable classes then I would play Fotm and hop from classes to classes. A fun to play spec is more important to have meta end game dps.

>

> While I am not completely against adding some sort of bandage fix, not addressing the core issue is just going to add onto the problem later. It is why I remade this thread three times now so I hope they remember the rotation is the biggest problem as damage is simple to fix.

>

>

 

Well considering Reaper was supposed to be a slow but high damage dealing spec, and with raids going to be added alongside HoT, yes I think many people were excited to play reaper as a dps class in high end content. And in high end content, casual fun generally becomes a secondary objective to effectiveness.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

The double strike at 50% would fix the sub 50% rotation. Reaper 5 needs major damage increase below 50 and 25%. I dont understand how anet thinks its ok for sb to be able to strike a target for 30k at 100% health but reaper cant hit that hard at 25%.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> Gravedigger is a problem in EVERY game mode. It is a terribly designed ability. I really, really, really wish they swapped it out with something else (a leap would be great but I know that doesn't go with the "fantasy" of reaper).

>

>

 

Oh my god can we have a shadowstep instead! How badass would that hovering spinning animation be immediately after a shadowy teleport!? Instead of having it instantly recharge on hitting a low health or downed foe, have it give access to a follow-up overhead slam attack that applies chill?

[KrHome.1920]

GS and RS base damage are fine. It's getting ridiculous. 8k tooltip damage for RS4 and still the bottom of the dps chart - just think about that!

 

GS auto already deals 10% more damage than dagger (20% if you add the chill on auto3), hits more targets and the weapon has 4 additional dps skills which are buffed further and further while dagger is wet noodle playstyle by definition. At least dagger2 now deals the same damage like a dagger auto rotation in the same time (2s) at 600 range, but this makes the auto even more useless

 

Necro needs more trait modifiers to improve everything and not just one single weapon. Awaken the pain was a good start...

 

Currently power reaper is too one-dimensional!