Scourge feels more like a PVP elite spec

[Amier.1435]

Hey Everyone,

 

Just wanted to share my early thoughts on Scourge, and see if I am not alone on this. Like many people I have really enjoyed a tank reaper. While not Meta for most things, it's just pure fun to boot and seriously tough. It took me some time to figure things out though and maybe I need to give Scourge a bit more time, but there are just a few things that are alarming to me.

 

Scourge is meant to be Condi DPS/Support. Let's dig in to my views after I spec'd a Scourge with Shaman Gear with Scourge Runes, and Viper Trinkets and Weapons (Burst/Agony Sigils).

 

**Support Concerns:**

1. Barrier seems to degrade way to quickly to be of any real use. I don't see anyone really stacking up heaps of Vitality to buff this right up.

2. Scourge runes have healing on them, while Necro's have only 1 weapon heal; Staff Skill2 for a regen boon. Necro's can't heal well so wouldn't Vitality have been better.

3. Scourge Elite traits have no healing on them. Using Blood for 'Life from Death' with F5 has a higher CD than normal Necromancer meaning something like is actually worse off.

4. The only boon really on offer now is might, which is not something hard to come by. No Fury, No Quickness, No Retaliation, etc.. There's plenty we could have got.

5. The Healing slot skill that gives a weak heal, and the lack of healing in general seem to make the scourge require timed self healing otherwise your a bit dead.

 

To conclude on the 'Support' its really behind the standard. So with that maybe then what the Scourge lacks in 'Support' is offset by good condi dps.. Wrong... My Reaper Tank with GS using Crusader Armor and Berserker Trinkets/Weapons will out DPS the Scourge with Shaman Armor and Viper Trinkets/Weapons.

 

**DPS Concerns:**

1. Apart from the Curse Trait line I really feel like the other Trait lines have poor synergy with Shroud skills. They get tied up with the F5 ability which has a long cool down over normal Shroud. Dhuumfire from Soul Reaping seems like a waste, and Death Perception with Shroud for a small amount of time also pointless.

2. Utility and Elite Skills that will only do condi damage with boons on a target make them fairly useless in PVE for the most part.

3. To really get any DPS out of the Scourge you have to forget about Support, and move toward a tanky build of Curse, Death Magic, Scourge.

 

**Conclusion**

PVE play of the Scourge feels like a step down over the Reaper. What I have seen with the Scourge is that it's more suited toward a Condi Brawler for PVP with its burst DPS and condi stripping and a nice knock down. Scourge is fun for PVP but would have like to see it more usable in PVE.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

There is a lot to pick up on but I'll do just the dps part.

 

> **Dhuumfire from Soul Reaping seems like a waste**

Not sure what to say about this. Burning, especially from dhuumfire, accounts for a fair bit of dps from the spec.

 

> Utility and Elite Skills that will only do condi damage with boons on a target make them fairly useless in PVE for the most part.

A **LARGE** number of new mobs have boons. Some even constantly reapply. Can only consider this a trend going forwards. in PvE.

I also forgot how shouts were great in pve for reaper...or that we had other utilities at all. /s

 

> To really get any DPS out of the Scourge .. a tanky build of Curse, Death Magic, Scourge.

> **DPS ... Death Magic**

Again not sure what to say on this.

 

But its fairly easy to see where it came from:

> Let's dig in to my views after I spec'd a Scourge with **Shaman Gear with Scourge Runes, and Viper Trinkets and Weapons** (Burst/Agony Sigils).

[Zefiris.8297]

> They get tied up with the F5 ability which has a long cool down over normal Shroud.

 

This is why you use Soul Reaping, not Death Magic. Use Vital Persistance and F5 has not a "long cooldown" - with Alacrity it comes up in 12 seconds. This is also why Dhuumfire is good, not bad: it works on all F abilities.

[Amier.1435]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> There is a lot to pick up on but I'll do just the dps part.

>

> > **Dhuumfire from Soul Reaping seems like a waste**

> Not sure what to say about this. Burning, especially from dhuumfire, accounts for a fair bit of dps from the spec.

>

> > Utility and Elite Skills that will only do condi damage with boons on a target make them fairly useless in PVE for the most part.

> A **LARGE** number of new mobs have boons. Some even constantly reapply. Can only consider this a trend going forwards. in PvE.

> I also forgot how shouts were great in pve for reaper...or that we had other utilities at all. /s

>

> > To really get any DPS out of the Scourge .. a tanky build of Curse, Death Magic, Scourge.

> > **DPS ... Death Magic**

> Again not sure what to say on this.

>

> But its fairly easy to see where it came from:

> > Let's dig in to my views after I spec'd a Scourge with **Shaman Gear with Scourge Runes, and Viper Trinkets and Weapons** (Burst/Agony Sigils).

 

Not very insightful at all, but ok...

[Ravezaar.4951]

2. Scourge runes have healing on them, while Necro's have only 1 weapon heal; Staff Skill2 for a regen boon. Necro's can't heal well so wouldn't Vitality have been better.

 

Just want to add Focus #4 also have regen

[Amier.1435]

> @Ravezaar.4951 said:

> 2. Scourge runes have healing on them, while Necro's have only 1 weapon heal; Staff Skill2 for a regen boon. Necro's can't heal well so wouldn't Vitality have been better.

>

> Just want to add Focus #4 also have regen

 

Still, regen is not the best heal. It's not a direct heal off the skill.

[Muchacho.2390]

> @Amier.1435 said:

 

 

> 2. Scourge runes have healing on them, while Necro's have only 1 weapon heal; Staff Skill2 for a regen boon. Necro's can't heal well so wouldn't Vitality have been better.

> 3. Scourge Elite traits have no healing on them. Using Blood for 'Life from Death' with F5 has a higher CD than normal Necromancer meaning something like is actually worse off.

 

Dont forget barriers scale with healing power.

 

Scourges with transfusion actually heals quite abit.

 

I am not saying that scourges support is in a good place but scourges has alot of things that scale with healing power.

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @Amier.1435 said:

> > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > There is a lot to pick up on but I'll do just the dps part.

> >

> > > **Dhuumfire from Soul Reaping seems like a waste**

> > Not sure what to say about this. Burning, especially from dhuumfire, accounts for a fair bit of dps from the spec.

> >

> > > Utility and Elite Skills that will only do condi damage with boons on a target make them fairly useless in PVE for the most part.

> > A **LARGE** number of new mobs have boons. Some even constantly reapply. Can only consider this a trend going forwards. in PvE.

> > I also forgot how shouts were great in pve for reaper...or that we had other utilities at all. /s

> >

> > > To really get any DPS out of the Scourge .. a tanky build of Curse, Death Magic, Scourge.

> > > **DPS ... Death Magic**

> > Again not sure what to say on this.

> >

> > But its fairly easy to see where it came from:

> > > Let's dig in to my views after I spec'd a Scourge with **Shaman Gear with Scourge Runes, and Viper Trinkets and Weapons** (Burst/Agony Sigils).

>

> Not very insightful at all, but ok...

 

Insight....

1. You say that that namely dhuumfire is a waste. Dhuumfire in the single largest source of burn on the class due to it applying on every f1 skill as well as every pulse of f5 around your shade. Not having dhuumfire and the janky gear setup is part of the reason you are lacking a bunch of damage. You also say its mostly tied to f5 which is fair but you say it has a long cooldown over shrouds. You would lose 4 seconds off of it if you took soul reaping and VP but also the realistic cooldown of shroud before you can re-enter it isnt to far off. You only really feel it if you every spent long times in shroud.

2. Few things. Not only are you too focused on the utilities only doing damage when ripping boons but also that we have other utility skills at all. This ignores the fact that A) reaper shouts by and large are aweful in pve so by comparison there isnt much of a change when it comes to dps but also that B) a large majority of new mobs actually grant themselves boons or cause conditions, both of witch you can take advantage off either via and F-X skill or a utility. Heck they even made sure that some mobs continuously grant them selves boons so you always have something to work with or that they cause conditions that are constantly applied.

3. You say that to get any DPS from scourge you have to take death magic when death magic is possible the single worse trait-line for damage due to it being the defensive one and having no damage modifiers or things that add to it like dhuumfire. Soul Reaping provides better damage due to the insane vulnerability stacking unyielding blast gives, better cooldown and LF management through vital persistence, more only all damage from dhuumfire because its the single largest source of burn. Heck even spite is better for dps since scourge does a fairly large amount of power damage with shades.

[Amier.1435]

I had Vitality mixed up with healing power. Switched the Shaman gear for Apothecary, still with Scourge Runes. Seems a bit better than Shaman gear, and can then swap out my Viper Accessories and Staff with something like Magi or Apothecary to ramp up healing if needed. Look don't get me wrong. I understand many people playing this class will want to be just going the standard Viper/Sinister with Nightmare/Trapper runes, but I am experimenting with the Scourge because I want to flesh out what it's capable of doing as 'Support'.

 

So far it is fun to play but as history goes Necro's have always been way behind in the field of 'Support'. Given this has been branded a 'Support' spec I am going in to this with high hopes, and maybe thats my issue. At some point I will do a full DPS setup. Once I know a direction I will want to take, Scourge Support, Scourge DPS, or just stay Power Reaper then I will know if I need to change the stats on my ascended armor.

[Zenith.7301]

The degen on barrier is indeed ridiculous, which is why smart people are cycling shade use to stagnate the degen. By doing this, I've had t4 fractals where a scourge feels like a druid, but with more damage. Barrier actually absorbs quite a bit of damage when it isn't being hindered by the ridiculous degen.

[Amier.1435]

Totally agree with you Zenith, the degen needs to be slowed by I'm starting to come around on my initial thoughts on Scourge. I like having my Scepter/Torch as Viper, but switch to a magi Staff considering it's not so good at doing any DPS anyways. Just gives some bigger barriers. I do hope there is some balancing soon, and Scourge could be really something!