If there were no damage conditions in guild wars

[Lokki.1092]

For me it's simple It is far more fun to fight against power builds than condition builds because of the way they work. When I'm facing a power build it's a simple interaction. They hit me I take damage, If I use a skill that makes me immune to damage, or I am out of their range they cannot damage me. We try to use CC to set up burst windows while denying the same from our opponent is a game of give and take until one of us is dead. Win or lose it's enjoyable.

 

When I am facing condition builds nothing is so cut and dry. When they attack me I get a condition, when I attack them I get a condition, when I move I take damage, when I use a skill I take damage, when I remove conditions I still have conditions on me, when I use a skill that makes me immune to damage I'm still taking damage from conditions. If I leave their range, I'm still taking damage if I CC them down I'm still taking damage. On top of this interaction, they get all the benefits of power builds, crit, burst, front loading, with all the benefits of sustainability. The fights often feel like a slog, where one side seems to have little interest in actually fighting.

 

It also does not help that these rules for conditions are simply not how DoTs work in any other MMO. So when newer players encounter this there is a moment of "WTF!!?!" As they get destroyed in 5 different ways without any idea of how they died or what they needed to do differently. Alternately When I cleave them in half with my greatsword the events of the fight are obvious to understand.

 

Does this mean conditions are overpowered? Not necessarily, but it does mean they are not fun to play against at all. It's the reason why we build not only our characters but our team compositions with conditions in mind while power is just an afterthought.

 

TLDR: Conditions are not fun for players to play against. This will be a complaint until they are, or the game ends.

 

 

[Menzies The Heretic.3415]

> @jheryn.8390 said:

> > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> > Conditions should not be able to spike you to death under a second. Also, a power spike is easier to notice, allowing a player to pop a block or invul, all while applied conditions happily kill you while you're using your defensive skills. Some conditions require no player input to be applied (see vid where Svanir gets killed by idle elementalist), or very little effort.

>

> If you have a harder time noticing a condi skill then use a cleanse after it happens. Many people complain about having to equip some sort of cleanse because it "messes or decreases" their build. Condi people have the same problem in having equip a block or invul skill to prevent a power build from cutting them in half. So both sides have to defend against the other.

>

> As many have said, at least the first two years of this game were pretty much power driven and anyone wanting to use condi didn't bother because it meant nothing and was ineffective for the most part. Now that condi has teeth, people (mostly power players I would assume) are bemoaning something they have to defend against.

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb

[tigirius.9014]

> @Fipmip.7219 said:

> Condi gets a lot of complaints around here. If you want to fight condis, you have to kitten your awesome build by bringing condi cleanse. and then use that condi cleanse wisely and skillfully, which is an imbalance against your opponent, who is probably just unleashing condi after condi. As a gameplay element, most people find it unfun. And what are games about really.

>

> Have you ever thought about what guild wars would be like without damage conditions? Condi is a great concept that brings a new way to play to guild wars, but in practice it just outperforms power based gameplay. If the game was power only, what would happen? I'm guessing heavy classes would probably have an easier time facetanking masses of incoming damage. Could we perhaps transform all damage condis into debuffs? lets hear your thoughts

 

As a healer that uses condi to survive while out in the field, let me correct that for yeah....

 

If there were no PVP in GW2 there wouldn't be an issue with balance. Tadaaaa LOL

[Panda.1967]

> @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> > @jheryn.8390 said:

> > > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> > > Conditions should not be able to spike you to death under a second. Also, a power spike is easier to notice, allowing a player to pop a block or invul, all while applied conditions happily kill you while you're using your defensive skills. Some conditions require no player input to be applied (see vid where Svanir gets killed by idle elementalist), or very little effort.

> >

> > If you have a harder time noticing a condi skill then use a cleanse after it happens. Many people complain about having to equip some sort of cleanse because it "messes or decreases" their build. Condi people have the same problem in having equip a block or invul skill to prevent a power build from cutting them in half. So both sides have to defend against the other.

> >

> > As many have said, at least the first two years of this game were pretty much power driven and anyone wanting to use condi didn't bother because it meant nothing and was ineffective for the most part. Now that condi has teeth, people (mostly power players I would assume) are bemoaning something they have to defend against.

>

> https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb

 

A few things to note in that clip.

 

1) Affected by Slow & Cripple massively reducing his movement speed

2) 5 stacks of Bleed

3) 4 stacks of Burning

4) 9 stacks of Torment

 

The most important of those is that last one, 9 stacks of Torment. First off you've got 18 stacks of conditions ticking off damage per second, but the real killer was that 9 stacks of Torment that were dealing bonus damage because he was attempting to run away instead of cleansing. Which of course, he couldn't do because he doesn't have a cleanse on his bar. Additionally, watching in slow motion, you'll count 3 attacks that hit dealing the conditions in, applying 3 stacks of Torment each. He was also standing in 2 sand shades.

[otto.5684]

PvE things are okay.

 

PvP.. things are the way they are because of three things:

 

1) Due to condis damage having a different stats than power, most condi builds do not deal much non condi damage. So the damage must be loaded on the condi making tick for ridiculous amounts.

2) Cleanse. I know many people try to sell condi cleanse is being inefficient, but it is.. and that is where the problem is. If we reduce condi re-application and strengthen cleanse, this will render condi damage obsolete. And that is why condi nuking exist. Overall, silly game play mechanics, but they somewhat balance each other. The problem is they kill much of the build diversity, since whatever build you play in PvP must have significant tools to deal with condi nuking.

3) There are limited ways to reduce incoming condi damage. There are million ways to reduce incoming power damage. Condi damage on the other hand falls into all or nothing land. You have resistance or cleansed? Zero condi damage. You did not? Prepare to die in 2-3 secs. Devs did add some limited ways to reduce condi damage in some PoF elites, but in kind of sucky way. Take renegade, heal reduce condi damage and there is a trait that does so as well. But lets face the it, if you have 4-5 condi with some stacks, ticking 5-6K a sec, reducing the damage is not going to do much. You must cleanse.

 

The condi situation is complicated, because it creates many all or nothing scenarios, and severely limit build diversity in PvP. I think if toughness and several damage reduction mechanics (like protection) can consistently reduce incoming damage, while reducing cleanse and condi reapplication, the game play will be much better, and help build diversity. Though, this is a complicated indaver, one I doubt devs will take, even though it is much needed. Game play will continue to be condi nuke countered by mega cleanse.

[Dante.1763]

I find power to be utterly boring, being able to spike something to death without it even getting an attack off is just boring to me, and if they destroyed conditions(AGAIN) to what they where back in the "dark days" i would legit stop playing, theres no reason to ruin conditions and condition builds. What is needed however is a total re balance of the game from the ground up, because there have been so many major changes to gameplay, plus the split of PVP, and PVE skills, and a few other things, that leave some builds/play styles left in the dust forever because they never got changed to be useful with how the game plays now.