>25K from stealth in an instant and go back to stealth instantly.

[Pelto.9364]

Main point is that the damage is higher than before. Game is harder for casual players. The game is rated K12+..... if this oneshot gank game is a torture chamber for adults, how do feel 12+ aged children who are most likely new players for any game? Should children game be less tedious and more friendly to play?

 

[Scar.1793]

MUDse you’re out of your mind I don’t need to see the video to know what happens. It happens to me and others ALL the time with the majority of the thieves encounters because it’s all they can do. If Anet made them properly balanced you wouln’t see that crap ever.

Essentially, to be a « good » thief you just need to know how to time your dodge and escapes against someone’s teammates after you downed him and finished with 5. There’s not one single game session where you don’t see it at least twice.

 

 

I mean sorry to bring WoW again but it’s a perfect example : rogues used to 100->0 targets and now their openers are not FINISHERS. It gives you a rough edge, not a Counter Strike AWP shot you can do over and over again. Know why? So opponents can have time to REACT and COUNTER. I can understand the fun in depoping people who can’t fight back but aren’t you bored after a short while ? There’s no recent and proper pvp game where your character gets oneshot/twoshot unless you made a mistake or didn’t pay attention to big hints of a massive attack coming to your face.

 

With thief you just see huge red numbers and your character is down. You can’t do nothing about it and that’s the problem. A single character shouldn’t have so many tools : burst, best mobility in the game and best access to stealth (plus reveal removal with elite).

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said:

> > > > > @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.

> > > > > > > > i was not full zerk btw.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.

> > > > > > after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

> > > > >

> > > > > the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

> > > > >

> > > > > their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot again

> > > > > reveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

> > > > >

> > > > > gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

> > > >

> > > > Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

> > >

> > > yeah i dint mentioned the thief using DJ again in the discussion for that reason however, i'd say the ones full of ignorance would be guys like you , i dint pay attention to the first skill used but the argument remains there was a counter window of a whopping 0.2/s

> > >

> > > so yeah in a best scenario ranger would've popped up signet of stone invuln and sic em then maybe a 4 to cc the thief and rapid fire them , would ve done about 50% damage thief would ve re entered stealth and just finished the ranger off

> > >

> > > in a better but more realistic scenario ranger does everything as above but thief uses stunbreak and reveal remove stealth elite and BS+finish ranger

> > >

> > > alternatively the same as above for ranger but holo jumps in and shockwaves with the trait that reveals stealthed enemies hit , thief uses his second charge of reveal remove stealth, downs ranger, holo tries rezzing ranger and gets killed and ranger gets finished or holo attacks over ranger and gets BS anyways

> > >

> > > and this has been a problem with the thief class since launch , perma stealth has to go and/or thief needs a major damage nerf on its 1 but have its other skills improved

> > >

> > > the problem with thief has always been the same issues stealth and insane auto attack damage

> >

> > Have you tried to fight a holo as a thief?

>

> Provided the Holo has lock on traited, the thief won't stand a chance. 6s of reveal and 10s of vulnerability for 8s on hard cc without a cooldown.

 

I'm not talking about reveal here. The sheer firepower and defence the holos get is crazy for any thief to melee.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> MUDse you’re out of your mind I don’t need to see the video to know what happens. It happens to me and others ALL the time with the majority of the thieves encounters because it’s all they can do. If Anet made them properly balanced you wouln’t see that crap ever.

no matter the class /build i played over the years and i played most classes for a longer period (all apart from ranger), i usually played them bursty in roaming/smallscale WvW. because with that you can punish elusive builds for their mistakes. i didnt have your issue against the majority of thieves, sure with some builds, against some thieves i wont be able to kill them as they play it too safe, but the majority of them like with any other class are noobs and quite killable with any class.

> I can understand the fun in depoping people who can’t fight back but aren’t you bored after a short while ? There’s no recent and proper pvp game where your character gets oneshot/twoshot unless you made a mistake or didn’t pay attention to big hints of a massive attack coming to your face.

but people can fight back against a single opponent and worst case they just have to play the same build for a mirror match. what really is boring are unwinnable fights, mostly due to numbers. for a thief especially with a stealth build, there are less unwinnable fights due to numbers as they can often divide the larger opposing group and fight them one by one and if they cant do that, they can simply avoid having to fight the group alltogether. the fact that thieves are not forced into unwinnable fights makes them less boring to me.

> With thief you just see huge red numbers and your character is down. You can’t do nothing about it and that’s the problem. A single character shouldn’t have so many tools : burst, best mobility in the game and best access to stealth (plus reveal removal with elite).

every class has burst, that is not exclusive to thieves. they can build for lot of stealth, but this comes at a huge cost in damage. thief has the best vertical mobility due to shortbow that is right, but it is only disengageing mobility not practical to fight due to the initative system. and if they choos reveal removing elite they are a deadeye not a daredevil wich further reduces their mobility and evade potential.

if i abuse the best mobility in game and best stealth while (lets assume deadeye had daredevil mobility) using the reveal elite, then i wont be dealing damage. have you ever played a SA+Acro +X thief ? thats super safe and wont be able to kill decent opponents.

yes you can get various aspects to extremes as thief be it burst, mobility, stealth , evades etc but what you cannot do is ALL of it at the same time in one build. everything you invest into one of those areas will cost you in another. i play with low mobility and low evade so i can have more stealth and more burst for example. when fighting a thief you have to figure what he has invested much into and in wich of those he is lacking to know how to fight that specific thief.

 

[archmagus.7249]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said:

> > > > > > @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.

> > > > > > > > > i was not full zerk btw.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.

> > > > > > > after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

> > > > > >

> > > > > > their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot again

> > > > > > reveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

> > > > > >

> > > > > > gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

> > > > >

> > > > > Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

> > > >

> > > > yeah i dint mentioned the thief using DJ again in the discussion for that reason however, i'd say the ones full of ignorance would be guys like you , i dint pay attention to the first skill used but the argument remains there was a counter window of a whopping 0.2/s

> > > >

> > > > so yeah in a best scenario ranger would've popped up signet of stone invuln and sic em then maybe a 4 to cc the thief and rapid fire them , would ve done about 50% damage thief would ve re entered stealth and just finished the ranger off

> > > >

> > > > in a better but more realistic scenario ranger does everything as above but thief uses stunbreak and reveal remove stealth elite and BS+finish ranger

> > > >

> > > > alternatively the same as above for ranger but holo jumps in and shockwaves with the trait that reveals stealthed enemies hit , thief uses his second charge of reveal remove stealth, downs ranger, holo tries rezzing ranger and gets killed and ranger gets finished or holo attacks over ranger and gets BS anyways

> > > >

> > > > and this has been a problem with the thief class since launch , perma stealth has to go and/or thief needs a major damage nerf on its 1 but have its other skills improved

> > > >

> > > > the problem with thief has always been the same issues stealth and insane auto attack damage

> > >

> > > Have you tried to fight a holo as a thief?

> >

> > Provided the Holo has lock on traited, the thief won't stand a chance. 6s of reveal and 10s of vulnerability for 8s on hard cc without a cooldown.

>

> I'm not talking about reveal here. The sheer firepower and defence the holos get is crazy for any thief to melee.

 

Getting past the defense isn't hard. Just don't use cc, and take them from above 25% to 0 in one hit.

[Packit.2953]

bro you got dropped lol

[Scar.1793]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> when fighting a thief you have to figure what he has invested much into and in wich of those he is lacking to know how to fight that specific thief.

 

First kudos for explaining your opinion without going aggressive-rambo mode.

 

As for this specific part, tell me how am I supposed to do that when the thief 1-2shot my character with 16k hp?

 

With my rev I can depop some classes/specs but the enemies see me miles away and it requires at the very least 2 skills along with a few auto-attacks. Which gives plenty of time for the opponent to react.

 

Against a thief you don’t have that time. Not only that but the many tools they have to disengage makes it even more harder to catch them. That’s my and apparently others’ issue.

 

Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

 

[Shadowcat.2680]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

>

Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

 

[Scar.1793]

> @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

> >

> Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

>

 

Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

[Ubi.4136]

If you play with sound, you can pop signet of stone when you hear it. Without sound, lucky dodge. The range on sic 'em is great and all, but it's not used for the reveal really, but for the damage boost. Bad deadeyes don't realized they are revealed in time and get killed by 2 auto attacks, good deadeyes, you just need the 40% damage boost. The elite stance plus rapid will kill any full glass spec and has the range to hit them despite the escapes. If they are not playing rifle, timing worldy impact is everything. You time it right you win easily, if you don't, get a snack while you respawn.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > when fighting a thief you have to figure what he has invested much into and in wich of those he is lacking to know how to fight that specific thief.

>

> First kudos for explaining your opinion without going aggressive-rambo mode.

>

> As for this specific part, tell me how am I supposed to do that when the thief 1-2shot my character with 16k hp?

>

> With my rev I can depop some classes/specs but the enemies see me miles away and it requires at the very least 2 skills along with a few auto-attacks. Which gives plenty of time for the opponent to react.

>

> Against a thief you don’t have that time. Not only that but the many tools they have to disengage makes it even more harder to catch them. That’s my and apparently others’ issue.

>

> Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

>

 

well in that case it can indeed be an issue. but as i have my doubts that thief* or even better the build system of all classes is going to be redesigned, we should look at what you still can do.

the biggest weakness of most opponents are their habits.

i am on EU so cant say much about NA.

first of all most roaming thieves use an spvp build. they will have stealth but just of short duration to ambush or cover a retreat. they usually have alot invested into mobility as that is important for sPvP , it is not nearly as important for winning fights in roaming as a thief. so most will have 1 combat set + shortbow.

now it doesnt make sense to carry a shortbow if you dont use its mobility during roaming and they usually do. most thieves here do NOT go into stealth until they actually see their target. because of this it is very important to keep checking every direction while moving around. once you see the thief go stealth on range you need a feeling for how fast they can move in stealth, there is only 1 teleport outside of steal without a visual animation while in stealth and that is infiltrator signet ( very few run it) almost every way to stack stealth has some sort of visual to it wich also helps you to see or rather clever guess their position.

most thieves (btw also most of any other class) once they have their target will go straight to close the gap, wich makes even the steal of most very predictable. dodging steal is already half the fight. duing this dodge you can use you reveal because they just ported on you and then directly sword 3 so if they use a panic teleport you dont have to use a gapcloser. some offhand sword stuff and gameover.

btw only d/x thieves will 1/2shot you, rifle or pistol ones will burst you down but its more high sutained damage leaving time to react and sword thieves well they jump around but not 1/2 shot you.

 

so average thief like for most other classes is soo predictable, that you should be able to kill them with practise if you learn their habits.

now i play a little different, i will stealth before you see me mostly and hide my stealth stacking, truly taking you by suprise. i also have 2 weaponsets that i use actively for combat, one melee and one range - no shortbow. i was running d/p + p/p daredevil before PoF and now d/p+ rifle, i had killed a ton of people with suprise unload midfight as people usually expect a shortbow on backbar. its just overall more versitile if you can fight melee and range and alot harder to prepare for.

as a rev for example if you expect me melee, you should be on glint. if you expect me on range you should be on shiro in a ususal glint/shiro s/s+staff build.

i could now go into detail but more or less if you are running glassy rev, i need to make a major mistake (wich i sometimes do but counting on it is not an option) or you need to run to survive a 1 vs 1 encounter. however you can build a little more defensively, considering rev burst is soo strong it is overkill for many anyway, and then with keeping protection up your pretty safe from oneshots and can still kill me with OH sword 4+5 (altho i have high hp for a thief with 21k).

for example [nici](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6R7WsJyf1hvtfg4ePNnmLA "nici") runs usually stats that will prevent me from oneshotting as long as he has protection up ([build](http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscmn3guNSuQ7JRfoXlsR0qS4GaWJ4EdskFNFiNMrJOtDIARwugJshA-jFDFABKpMIN9BtdCAuSJo+q/U9hAAJlQA8AAyQDBDHBA23fIJlOBAQAuZb2m3MwQH6QH6QHaf3mDdo38m38m3cnDtUAauMC-w "build") from his most recent video), i have only one boon rip that rips 2 boons on 30s cooldown and while protection seems to have high priority feel its still rng if it will rip it. so its not easy for me to rip it. if i use it to setup a burst i usually do it with deaths judgement as it is delayed knockdown +boonrip , doing it with backstab is just way too risky to fail mechanically on my part. and a deaths judgement you can dodge alot easier. so with that you only need to keep protection up and a stunbreak + dodge ready as opposed to praying to survive.

 

 

the important things from this wall of text :

* most thieves are lazy so you will see them coming if you get used to looking over your shoulder, with this you can avoid most instadeaths.

* dont run full glass if you cant avoid being ganked my other means such as stealth. as a rev look at nicis build, keep protection up and your prett safe against a oneshot out of nowhere.

 

*issues with thief are often in their ability to kill people in 1 vs 1 using setups like long stealth that may take too much time to be considered efficient in the mode. and balancing is done about the performance in the mode. yet while anet has to balance for each classes performance in contributing to win the matchup for most roamers it is more important to win the next fight ahead so the balance goals of anet and roamers often wont be the same. therefor i wouldnt count on nerfs to thief or even stealth too much.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> If you play with sound, you can pop signet of stone when you hear it. Without sound, lucky dodge. The range on sic 'em is great and all, but it's not used for the reveal really, but for the damage boost. Bad deadeyes don't realized they are revealed in time and get killed by 2 auto attacks, good deadeyes, you just need the 40% damage boost. The elite stance plus rapid will kill any full glass spec and has the range to hit them despite the escapes. If they are not playing rifle, timing worldy impact is everything. You time it right you win easily, if you don't, get a snack while you respawn.

 

as addition: the most common mistake soulbeasts make is not being prepared to use unblockables rightaway. they use reveal and shoot and shoot, into snipers cover. deadeye can with relative low cost keep a permanent projectile blocking wall up (kneeling rifle skill) . with that i can often get my malice for basically free while they lost all their burst, from there its for the ranger run or die.

[Shadowcat.2680]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

> > >

> > Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

> >

>

> Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

 

Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

 

If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

> > > >

> > > Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

> > >

> >

> > Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

>

> Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

>

> If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

 

that is if the deadeye approaches visibly.

if he approaches in stealth and your full glass tho, no matter the class it looks more or less like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bt5tQ606YY

to avoid this your not allowed to be full glass. sure there is in theory time to react between mark and the backstab hit yet due to latency that is in many cases not realitstic.

[Turk.5460]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > > Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

> > > > >

> > > > Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

> >

> > Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

> >

> > If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

>

> that is if the deadeye approaches visibly.

> if he approaches in stealth and your full glass tho, no matter the class it looks more or less like this:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bt5tQ606YY

> to avoid this your not allowed to be full glass. sure there is in theory time to react between mark and the backstab hit yet due to latency that is in many cases not realitstic.

 

I must not have come across any Mesmers that run full 0 toughness because a 1-Malice + Signet + MBackstab has been giving me 12-13k on power Mirages I've been seeing, which has unfortunately been far from a 1-shot. (Full valk +full +5 power infusions +force sigil). Are you using No Quarter in that clip?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > > > Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

> > > > > >

> > > > > Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

> > >

> > > Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

> > >

> > > If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

> >

> > that is if the deadeye approaches visibly.

> > if he approaches in stealth and your full glass tho, no matter the class it looks more or less like this:

> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bt5tQ606YY

> > to avoid this your not allowed to be full glass. sure there is in theory time to react between mark and the backstab hit yet due to latency that is in many cases not realitstic.

>

> I must not have come across any Mesmers that run full 0 toughness because a 1-Malice + Signet + MBackstab has been giving me 12-13k on power Mirages I've been seeing, which has unfortunately been far from a 1-shot. (Full valk +full +5 power infusions +force sigil). Are you using No Quarter in that clip?

 

nope my usual build. and i hit most power mesmers around that. 12-13k only if they got protection from rune of durability for example. the build in the clip is 100% to the infusion what i have posted in the build thread. the difference between 1 malice and 7 malice hit is roughly 55% + often might from m7 proc. so your hitting power mesmer for just ~20k with m7 ? i mean i have hit glass warriors for over 30k with m7 wich means something like in the video with 1 malice

[Shadowcat.2680]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > > Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

> > > > >

> > > > Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

> >

> > Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

> >

> > If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

>

> that is if the deadeye approaches visibly.

> if he approaches in stealth and your full glass tho, no matter the class it looks more or less like this:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bt5tQ606YY

> to avoid this your not allowed to be full glass. sure there is in theory time to react between mark and the backstab hit yet due to latency that is in many cases not realitstic.

 

If it's known that a thief is around (necro marks suggest they knew a thief was in the tower), then standing still for it to skip over for a backstab is not smart regardless of gear choice.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > > > Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

> > > > > >

> > > > > Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

> > >

> > > Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

> > >

> > > If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

> >

> > that is if the deadeye approaches visibly.

> > if he approaches in stealth and your full glass tho, no matter the class it looks more or less like this:

> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bt5tQ606YY

> > to avoid this your not allowed to be full glass. sure there is in theory time to react between mark and the backstab hit yet due to latency that is in many cases not realitstic.

>

> If it's known that a thief is around (necro marks suggest they knew a thief was in the tower), then standing still for it to skip over for a backstab is not smart regardless of gear choice.

 

that is correct he knew in that case and did act wrong, especially as that wasnt his first time running into me that day but the 3rd. but that was not my point.

Scar said he has 16k hp on his rev and dies 1-2 shot against thieves so i think he is glass and he asked how you survive the opening burst , because he struggles.

you replied that the deadeye will struggle to survive the soulbeast opener - yet how can the soulbeast possibly open the fight against a deadeye that approaches in stealth and not visibly?

my point was that if your glass, with most classes you will just die onehit out of nowhere. sure in this particular case the mesmer could have acted different. now image the same on open field. your walkin from a newly caputred sentry towards a camp and then without you seeing any visual sign of an opponent, mark+backstab.

for players to react fast it is often very important to expect. if you know a thief is near you can react faster then if you do not know this.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"Pelto.9364" said:

> Main point is that the damage is higher than before. Game is harder for casual players. The game is rated K12+..... if this oneshot gank game is a torture chamber for adults, how do feel 12+ aged children who are most likely new players for any game? Should children game be less tedious and more friendly to play?

>

 

I'm all about balance, but a game should NEVER be balanced around kids and a dad that has 2h of free time per week, gets himself erased by everyone in wvw, and then comes on the forum complaining about how hard gw2 is. If you're a child, stick to open world zerging, its perfect for casual gameplay. If you're an adult with no time to "gitgud", you will never be good at this game. This game requires a lot of time and practice to become good. If you have no time because of your job/family, then do not complain about being killed by everything that moves in a pvp zone. "Skill" doesn't come from complaining on the forums.

[Felipe.1807]

I honestly dont know what goes by the head of the devs when they make stuff like this...is like "What is the most unfun stuff that players had been complaing for years for us to rebalance? Oh okay lets make a spec that now can keep perma stealth without need to use cloack and dagger, no need to blast or leap on smoke fields, that require some level of gameplay, lets just give stealth on dodge, thats gonna be fun to fight...and counters? Lets give DE a counter to counter that wasnt even avaible to all professions in the game on the first place..." at this point when I see a DE or see that i got the mark i just ignore and keep going on my way and leave the poor thing being useless killing NPCs and few players who would be probably rally bots anyway...

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"Felipe.1807" said:

> I honestly dont know what goes by the head of the devs when they make stuff like this...is like "What is the most unfun stuff that players had been complaing for years for us to rebalance? Oh okay lets make a spec that now can keep perma stealth without need to use cloack and dagger, no need to blast or leap on smoke fields, that require some level of gameplay, lets just give stealth on dodge, thats gonna be fun to fight...and counters? Lets give DE a counter to counter that wasnt even avaible to all professions in the game on the first place..." at this point when I see a DE or see that i got the mark i just ignore and keep going on my way and leave the poor thing being useless killing NPCs and few players who would be probably rally bots anyway...

 

Nobody at anet pvp's. The only thing (and you can see that on their streams) they do that is pvp related is zerging in wvw. Do you think they know about the issues of perma stealth, one shot mesmers, one shot core guardians, one shot thieves, one shot soulbeast, etc? They don't see any of this, its like complaing about OP builds to your friend that doesn't even play the game, he doesn't know what you're talking about. They are insanely disconnected from the pvp community.

 

They do raids and wvw zerging. Most skills they balance are balanced around these two game modes.

[Scar.1793]

@"MUDse.7623"

 

You are right about my rev, I just came out with my full pve gear (full ascended zerg with aurora), hell even the traits. But even against other classes it doesn’t get this bad, sometimes I do get facerolled other times I manage to chain 3 players without big troubles if I use my cooldowns properly.

 

Still, I don’t think a few toughness or extra vitality would help tbh, unless I want to do crap damage. Which would mean I’ll die anyway.

 

You suggested to check all directions which is what I do, but with the teleports and steal and stealth they can reach you in no time and then the same video begins lol.

[MUDse.7623]

@"Scar.1793"

yes you lose damage when you invest into defense but against most you will just lose overkill damage, wich is worth nothing. your damage will be far from bad, i mean just look at the link to the YT channel i did post with the example of a little tankier build, he is doing quite decent damage. i know that he did practise fighting thieves ALOT during HoT when daredevil was considered the hardcounter to a rev, hes also a really helpfull fellow usually so if you ask him he might even give you some good advise. i can only tell you what pressures me but as i didnt run into a rev yet tha reliably kills me(not just once because i made a big mistake he was able to punish) i think there is no reliable tactic, surely there is one tho that works against the majority of thieves. else i wouldnt be seeing this many revs in roaming, they kinda get more and more. seeing so many revs i thought about giving my rev another try aswell, but i know i will end up on thief really quick again once i get forced to fight unwinnable fights :)

 

if they can reach you faster then you check the direction, means your not checking them fast enough. you can limit the directions you have to keep an eye on based on current world map to get faster. for example when i am taking my spawncamp, i certainly wont get ganked by a thief coming out of my spawn. you generally can see signs of enemy activity. rarely one will approach you comming from a part of the map that is currently controlled by your server.

 

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Smothering thing that does help a lot is using -10% Inc dmg food.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Well, it is an 'assassin' Nomen est omen. So he can kill instantly, it's realistic. Play an assassin, if you do want the same.