Vayne.8563 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > The damage absolutely has everything to do with the range in this case. > > > > > No not really, they're other factors besides damage and range which you're completely ignoring. > > > > > > > > Still my point. The balance team isn't balancing on anyone's perspective, or what anyone thinks or feels. They're balancing on pure numbers. Changing one number to make something more advantageous might be okay in say PvE. It might be terrible in PvP or WvW though. If you have a weapon that can one shot certain professions, and you give it a longer range, you're screwing over other players, period end stop. > > > > > > > > This isn't a contest on who an argue better. It's an explanation of possible considerations. You want to make the range long enough to snipe someone from a ridiculous distance you have to decrease it's damage, or you're going to get a lot of angry players. > > > > > > sniping someone from ridiculous distance, just like ranger with longbow? you just played yourself > > > > Who can't one-shot someone. That's why we're talking about damage in the first place. Damage and range in this instance are directly related. The more people you can one shot the shorter your range has to be. This is the simplest balance logic there can be. > > > > I didn't play myself at all, you're just quoting half the conversation. It's nice to want buffs. Not at the expense of the health of the game though. > > If you think rifle deadeye is one-shotting people, then you are wrong. As far as one-shotting goes, i have seen screenshots where rangers crit 14k with the BASIC shot multiple times and thats pretty much from that broken 1800 range. Thats why i try avoid fighting rangers alone, i know my dmg is not enough while standing and ranger will outrange me if im kneeling. If you think thats "healthy" for the game, then there is no point having a conversation with you. Here's the updated benchmarks for small and large hit box after the new patch. As you can see, the top 3 are all thieves and the top 2 are dead eye. The dead eye doesn't need more range, because it already does the most damage. You're probably right that there's no point talking to me. I'm not going to convince you,. you're not going to convince me. More importantly I'm pretty sure you're not going to convince Anet. What I think really doesn't matter. Edit: You also might want to check out this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/46907/deadeye-is-broken-op#latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozey.8513 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > You've made the mistake of associating real life effects into an MMO. It's irrelevant and it's not a compelling reason to 'fix' those MMO/RL inconsistencies. > > > > They may not need to be consistent between rl and the game, but there should be consistency between the “same” values in a game, ie 1500 should equal 1500 not “1500” is greater than 1500. > > I must have missed something ... unless the physics of the rifle bullet is different from the arrow in this game. Where are these differences occuring? What is the actual difference we are talking about? These differences occur everywhere, even though Ranger LB says "1500" range it is actually far more in every situation. Some guys did some testing and made a video about it, very interesting stuff, gonna link it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y3PV577bSxRL_lw-Wxq41_3EbtTK87IU/view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synstylae.2751 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > The damage absolutely has everything to do with the range in this case. > > > > > > No not really, they're other factors besides damage and range which you're completely ignoring. > > > > > > > > > > Still my point. The balance team isn't balancing on anyone's perspective, or what anyone thinks or feels. They're balancing on pure numbers. Changing one number to make something more advantageous might be okay in say PvE. It might be terrible in PvP or WvW though. If you have a weapon that can one shot certain professions, and you give it a longer range, you're screwing over other players, period end stop. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't a contest on who an argue better. It's an explanation of possible considerations. You want to make the range long enough to snipe someone from a ridiculous distance you have to decrease it's damage, or you're going to get a lot of angry players. > > > > > > > > sniping someone from ridiculous distance, just like ranger with longbow? you just played yourself > > > > > > Who can't one-shot someone. That's why we're talking about damage in the first place. Damage and range in this instance are directly related. The more people you can one shot the shorter your range has to be. This is the simplest balance logic there can be. > > > > > > I didn't play myself at all, you're just quoting half the conversation. It's nice to want buffs. Not at the expense of the health of the game though. > > > > If you think rifle deadeye is one-shotting people, then you are wrong. As far as one-shotting goes, i have seen screenshots where rangers crit 14k with the BASIC shot multiple times and thats pretty much from that broken 1800 range. Thats why i try avoid fighting rangers alone, i know my dmg is not enough while standing and ranger will outrange me if im kneeling. If you think thats "healthy" for the game, then there is no point having a conversation with you. > > Here's the updated benchmarks for small and large hit box after the new patch. > > > > As you can see, the top 3 are all thieves and the top 2 are dead eye. > > The dead eye doesn't need more range, because it already does the most damage. > > You're probably right that there's no point talking to me. I'm not going to convince you,. you're not going to convince me. More importantly I'm pretty sure you're not going to convince Anet. What I think really doesn't matter. > What? What does sustained dps has anything to do with one-shotting? And those top 2 deadeyes are D/D not rifle. D/D PVE dps has nothing to do with rifle range. Im not trying to convince anyone here, im just calling you out on your bulls**t. I already know its pointless to try get a message through to anet, they have no idea how to balance things anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > The damage absolutely has everything to do with the range in this case. > > > > > > > No not really, they're other factors besides damage and range which you're completely ignoring. > > > > > > > > > > > > Still my point. The balance team isn't balancing on anyone's perspective, or what anyone thinks or feels. They're balancing on pure numbers. Changing one number to make something more advantageous might be okay in say PvE. It might be terrible in PvP or WvW though. If you have a weapon that can one shot certain professions, and you give it a longer range, you're screwing over other players, period end stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't a contest on who an argue better. It's an explanation of possible considerations. You want to make the range long enough to snipe someone from a ridiculous distance you have to decrease it's damage, or you're going to get a lot of angry players. > > > > > > > > > > sniping someone from ridiculous distance, just like ranger with longbow? you just played yourself > > > > > > > > Who can't one-shot someone. That's why we're talking about damage in the first place. Damage and range in this instance are directly related. The more people you can one shot the shorter your range has to be. This is the simplest balance logic there can be. > > > > > > > > I didn't play myself at all, you're just quoting half the conversation. It's nice to want buffs. Not at the expense of the health of the game though. > > > > > > If you think rifle deadeye is one-shotting people, then you are wrong. As far as one-shotting goes, i have seen screenshots where rangers crit 14k with the BASIC shot multiple times and thats pretty much from that broken 1800 range. Thats why i try avoid fighting rangers alone, i know my dmg is not enough while standing and ranger will outrange me if im kneeling. If you think thats "healthy" for the game, then there is no point having a conversation with you. > > > > Here's the updated benchmarks for small and large hit box after the new patch. > > > > > > > > As you can see, the top 3 are all thieves and the top 2 are dead eye. > > > > The dead eye doesn't need more range, because it already does the most damage. > > > > You're probably right that there's no point talking to me. I'm not going to convince you,. you're not going to convince me. More importantly I'm pretty sure you're not going to convince Anet. What I think really doesn't matter. > > > > What? What does sustained dps has anything to do with one-shotting? And those top 2 deadeyes are D/D not rifle. D/D PVE dps has nothing to do with rifle range. Im not trying to convince anyone here, im just calling you out on your bulls**t. I already know its pointless to try get a message through to anet, they have no idea how to balance things anyways. I posted this above, but check out this thread. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/46907/deadeye-is-broken-op#latest The damage being done by the class is too high to give it more range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Kageseigi.2150" said: > Secondly, Pistol/Pistol has heavily outperformed the Dagger due to the Might build up while offering survivability because the Thief can stay outside of the melee deathtrap. However hard Backstab hits, it simply doesn't hit hard enough to offset the extreme risk associated with melee. Should it outhit everything else? Yes. Does it? Not at all... especially without the Deadeye's malice build-up. > Personally, I say give the Dagger the most practical damage. Not just the numbers, but also the impact. The Thief needs to hit harder in melee without having to build up malice. I would say it needs to hit softer at range, but compared to everything else in the game, there's no way I'm going to give an inch. When built for it on deadeye, malicious backstab can hit glassy targets for up to 30k with full malice when the stars align, on more typical targets probably around 20-25k. That admittedly is when you min/max for the biggest hit possible, and is WvW for context. Very, very few specs can tank this sort of damage, and that's with shadow arts over DA (although with the last patch DA doesn't add much to a spike on an enemy at full health anymore). On daredevil it's more of an issue maybe as malice adds a damage modifier of (1.1x1.1x1.1x1.1x1.1x1.1x1.1)=1.95 (2dp) on deadeye, I remember my glassy D/P bound spec hitting 15k backstabs pretty easily though, and I'm pretty sure you can get a bit higher than that as I usually ran marauder on my weapons and some armor pieces on daredevil. I wouldn't have an issue with lowering general defense across classes and then damage for outliers like deadeye and soulbeast to make daredevil relatively more useful tho. That said I like deadeye being the assassin spec and daredevil the bruiser spec too. > Either way, the Ranger is too versatile to have such damage at range compared to the Thief. It has range, Stealth, mobility, unblockability, invulnerabilty, etc. The Thief doesn't have that versatility. Tbh I don't have a problem with your average soulbeast's damage, the ones that min/max for spike can pull off crazy numbers tho and that might need looking at. This is all pretty irrelevant to range tho, since all most people want is for two 1500 weapons to be able to hit each other in a fight if in range, not one hitting and the other not as is currently the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > The damage absolutely has everything to do with the range in this case. > > > > > > > > No not really, they're other factors besides damage and range which you're completely ignoring. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still my point. The balance team isn't balancing on anyone's perspective, or what anyone thinks or feels. They're balancing on pure numbers. Changing one number to make something more advantageous might be okay in say PvE. It might be terrible in PvP or WvW though. If you have a weapon that can one shot certain professions, and you give it a longer range, you're screwing over other players, period end stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't a contest on who an argue better. It's an explanation of possible considerations. You want to make the range long enough to snipe someone from a ridiculous distance you have to decrease it's damage, or you're going to get a lot of angry players. > > > > > > > > > > > > sniping someone from ridiculous distance, just like ranger with longbow? you just played yourself > > > > > > > > > > Who can't one-shot someone. That's why we're talking about damage in the first place. Damage and range in this instance are directly related. The more people you can one shot the shorter your range has to be. This is the simplest balance logic there can be. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't play myself at all, you're just quoting half the conversation. It's nice to want buffs. Not at the expense of the health of the game though. > > > > > > > > If you think rifle deadeye is one-shotting people, then you are wrong. As far as one-shotting goes, i have seen screenshots where rangers crit 14k with the BASIC shot multiple times and thats pretty much from that broken 1800 range. Thats why i try avoid fighting rangers alone, i know my dmg is not enough while standing and ranger will outrange me if im kneeling. If you think thats "healthy" for the game, then there is no point having a conversation with you. > > > > > > Here's the updated benchmarks for small and large hit box after the new patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see, the top 3 are all thieves and the top 2 are dead eye. > > > > > > The dead eye doesn't need more range, because it already does the most damage. > > > > > > You're probably right that there's no point talking to me. I'm not going to convince you,. you're not going to convince me. More importantly I'm pretty sure you're not going to convince Anet. What I think really doesn't matter. > > > > > > > What? What does sustained dps has anything to do with one-shotting? And those top 2 deadeyes are D/D not rifle. D/D PVE dps has nothing to do with rifle range. Im not trying to convince anyone here, im just calling you out on your bulls**t. I already know its pointless to try get a message through to anet, they have no idea how to balance things anyways. > > I posted this above, but check out this thread. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/46907/deadeye-is-broken-op#latest > > The damage being done by the class is too high to give it more range. I don't understand...do you think you have some sort of strong argument here with that link to a QQ/Troll post where almost *nobody* agrees with the title/OP? You also previously linked benchmarks...a PvE-ONLY related resource as some sort of poor attempt at a rebuttal...(which by the way, attack range on a single-target weapon does not and will not influence PvE). You talk about one-shotting people as Deadeye vs. Ranger. Did you know that Souldbeasts have an easier time "one-shotting" enemies than DE? By far! And they can do it from further than 2k range. It only takes two buttons (perhaps 3 for a more guaranteed "one-shot", but all can be used at the same time) and their arrows have a faster velocity than Thief *bullets*, whereas if a Thief wants to do a "one-shot" he will have to build up malice with multiple abilities *and* gain stealth - using up a resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > The damage absolutely has everything to do with the range in this case. > > > > > > > > > No not really, they're other factors besides damage and range which you're completely ignoring. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still my point. The balance team isn't balancing on anyone's perspective, or what anyone thinks or feels. They're balancing on pure numbers. Changing one number to make something more advantageous might be okay in say PvE. It might be terrible in PvP or WvW though. If you have a weapon that can one shot certain professions, and you give it a longer range, you're screwing over other players, period end stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't a contest on who an argue better. It's an explanation of possible considerations. You want to make the range long enough to snipe someone from a ridiculous distance you have to decrease it's damage, or you're going to get a lot of angry players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sniping someone from ridiculous distance, just like ranger with longbow? you just played yourself > > > > > > > > > > > > Who can't one-shot someone. That's why we're talking about damage in the first place. Damage and range in this instance are directly related. The more people you can one shot the shorter your range has to be. This is the simplest balance logic there can be. > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't play myself at all, you're just quoting half the conversation. It's nice to want buffs. Not at the expense of the health of the game though. > > > > > > > > > > If you think rifle deadeye is one-shotting people, then you are wrong. As far as one-shotting goes, i have seen screenshots where rangers crit 14k with the BASIC shot multiple times and thats pretty much from that broken 1800 range. Thats why i try avoid fighting rangers alone, i know my dmg is not enough while standing and ranger will outrange me if im kneeling. If you think thats "healthy" for the game, then there is no point having a conversation with you. > > > > > > > > Here's the updated benchmarks for small and large hit box after the new patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see, the top 3 are all thieves and the top 2 are dead eye. > > > > > > > > The dead eye doesn't need more range, because it already does the most damage. > > > > > > > > You're probably right that there's no point talking to me. I'm not going to convince you,. you're not going to convince me. More importantly I'm pretty sure you're not going to convince Anet. What I think really doesn't matter. > > > > > > > > > > What? What does sustained dps has anything to do with one-shotting? And those top 2 deadeyes are D/D not rifle. D/D PVE dps has nothing to do with rifle range. Im not trying to convince anyone here, im just calling you out on your bulls**t. I already know its pointless to try get a message through to anet, they have no idea how to balance things anyways. > > > > I posted this above, but check out this thread. > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/46907/deadeye-is-broken-op#latest > > > > The damage being done by the class is too high to give it more range. > > I don't understand...do you think you have some sort of strong argument here with that link to a QQ/Troll post where almost *nobody* agrees with the title/OP? You also previously linked benchmarks...a PvE-ONLY related resource as some sort of poor attempt at a rebuttal...(which by the way, attack range on a single-target weapon does not and will not influence PvE). > > You talk about one-shotting people as Deadeye vs. Ranger. Did you know that Souldbeasts have an easier time "one-shotting" enemies than DE? By far! And they can do it from further than 2k range. It only takes two buttons (perhaps 3 for a more guaranteed "one-shot", but all can be used at the same time) and their arrows have a faster velocity than Thief *bullets*, whereas if a Thief wants to do a "one-shot" he will have to build up malice with multiple abilities *and* gain stealth - using up a resource. Yes, thieves never one shot anyone, no one agrees with this guy you don't agree with, and no one ever complains about being one shot by a thief....oh wait... there's far more evidence of thieves one shotting than rangers, complaints that go back years. This isn't even a discussion anymore and it's not worth continuing. You're not going to convince me. I don't believe you're correct. You don't believe I'm correct. At the end of the day, Anet will make the decision, which is what matters. What they believe. I believe they have the numbers. I won't be responding to any more posts in this thread, because there's nothing to be gained from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > The damage absolutely has everything to do with the range in this case. > > > > > > > > > > No not really, they're other factors besides damage and range which you're completely ignoring. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still my point. The balance team isn't balancing on anyone's perspective, or what anyone thinks or feels. They're balancing on pure numbers. Changing one number to make something more advantageous might be okay in say PvE. It might be terrible in PvP or WvW though. If you have a weapon that can one shot certain professions, and you give it a longer range, you're screwing over other players, period end stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't a contest on who an argue better. It's an explanation of possible considerations. You want to make the range long enough to snipe someone from a ridiculous distance you have to decrease it's damage, or you're going to get a lot of angry players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sniping someone from ridiculous distance, just like ranger with longbow? you just played yourself > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who can't one-shot someone. That's why we're talking about damage in the first place. Damage and range in this instance are directly related. The more people you can one shot the shorter your range has to be. This is the simplest balance logic there can be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't play myself at all, you're just quoting half the conversation. It's nice to want buffs. Not at the expense of the health of the game though. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think rifle deadeye is one-shotting people, then you are wrong. As far as one-shotting goes, i have seen screenshots where rangers crit 14k with the BASIC shot multiple times and thats pretty much from that broken 1800 range. Thats why i try avoid fighting rangers alone, i know my dmg is not enough while standing and ranger will outrange me if im kneeling. If you think thats "healthy" for the game, then there is no point having a conversation with you. > > > > > > > > > > Here's the updated benchmarks for small and large hit box after the new patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see, the top 3 are all thieves and the top 2 are dead eye. > > > > > > > > > > The dead eye doesn't need more range, because it already does the most damage. > > > > > > > > > > You're probably right that there's no point talking to me. I'm not going to convince you,. you're not going to convince me. More importantly I'm pretty sure you're not going to convince Anet. What I think really doesn't matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? What does sustained dps has anything to do with one-shotting? And those top 2 deadeyes are D/D not rifle. D/D PVE dps has nothing to do with rifle range. Im not trying to convince anyone here, im just calling you out on your bulls**t. I already know its pointless to try get a message through to anet, they have no idea how to balance things anyways. > > > > > > I posted this above, but check out this thread. > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/46907/deadeye-is-broken-op#latest > > > > > > The damage being done by the class is too high to give it more range. > > > > I don't understand...do you think you have some sort of strong argument here with that link to a QQ/Troll post where almost *nobody* agrees with the title/OP? You also previously linked benchmarks...a PvE-ONLY related resource as some sort of poor attempt at a rebuttal...(which by the way, attack range on a single-target weapon does not and will not influence PvE). > > > > You talk about one-shotting people as Deadeye vs. Ranger. Did you know that Souldbeasts have an easier time "one-shotting" enemies than DE? By far! And they can do it from further than 2k range. It only takes two buttons (perhaps 3 for a more guaranteed "one-shot", but all can be used at the same time) and their arrows have a faster velocity than Thief *bullets*, whereas if a Thief wants to do a "one-shot" he will have to build up malice with multiple abilities *and* gain stealth - using up a resource. > > Yes, thieves never one shot anyone, no one agrees with this guy you don't agree with, and no one ever complains about being one shot by a thief....oh wait... there's far more evidence of thieves one shotting than rangers, complaints that go back years. This isn't even a discussion anymore and it's not worth continuing. You're not going to convince me. I don't believe you're correct. You don't believe I'm correct. At the end of the day, Anet will make the decision, which is what matters. What they believe. I believe they have the numbers. > > I won't be responding to any more posts in this thread, because there's nothing to be gained from it. Did you have an actual argument to combat my post? Because it seems like you are conceding and accepting defeat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 It's funny .. this isn't the first thread where people want to disassociate the range advantage from the damage they do. It's obtuse to do so because it's one of the most fundamental damage concepts that exists, in ANY game. Competitive game modes that allow no chance for counterplay simply die as people default to what's broken. Long ranged classes one-(or two or three or even 4) shotting people from max range is just one example of that. If you love WvW and PVP in this game, you will recognize the harm big damage/long range encounters can pose to these modes of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synstylae.2751 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Synstylae.2751" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > The damage absolutely has everything to do with the range in this case. > > > > > > > > No not really, they're other factors besides damage and range which you're completely ignoring. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still my point. The balance team isn't balancing on anyone's perspective, or what anyone thinks or feels. They're balancing on pure numbers. Changing one number to make something more advantageous might be okay in say PvE. It might be terrible in PvP or WvW though. If you have a weapon that can one shot certain professions, and you give it a longer range, you're screwing over other players, period end stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't a contest on who an argue better. It's an explanation of possible considerations. You want to make the range long enough to snipe someone from a ridiculous distance you have to decrease it's damage, or you're going to get a lot of angry players. > > > > > > > > > > > > sniping someone from ridiculous distance, just like ranger with longbow? you just played yourself > > > > > > > > > > Who can't one-shot someone. That's why we're talking about damage in the first place. Damage and range in this instance are directly related. The more people you can one shot the shorter your range has to be. This is the simplest balance logic there can be. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't play myself at all, you're just quoting half the conversation. It's nice to want buffs. Not at the expense of the health of the game though. > > > > > > > > If you think rifle deadeye is one-shotting people, then you are wrong. As far as one-shotting goes, i have seen screenshots where rangers crit 14k with the BASIC shot multiple times and thats pretty much from that broken 1800 range. Thats why i try avoid fighting rangers alone, i know my dmg is not enough while standing and ranger will outrange me if im kneeling. If you think thats "healthy" for the game, then there is no point having a conversation with you. > > > > > > Here's the updated benchmarks for small and large hit box after the new patch. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can see, the top 3 are all thieves and the top 2 are dead eye. > > > > > > The dead eye doesn't need more range, because it already does the most damage. > > > > > > You're probably right that there's no point talking to me. I'm not going to convince you,. you're not going to convince me. More importantly I'm pretty sure you're not going to convince Anet. What I think really doesn't matter. > > > > > > > What? What does sustained dps has anything to do with one-shotting? And those top 2 deadeyes are D/D not rifle. D/D PVE dps has nothing to do with rifle range. Im not trying to convince anyone here, im just calling you out on your bulls**t. I already know its pointless to try get a message through to anet, they have no idea how to balance things anyways. > > I posted this above, but check out this thread. > > > > The damage being done by the class is too high to give it more range. So you posted a obvious joke thread, where someone post a picture of old deadeye dmg, nobody does that big hits anymore. Nevemind the fact that its easy to dodge it, if you get hit by one, l2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synstylae.2751 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > It's funny .. this isn't the first thread where people want to disassociate the range advantage from the damage they do. It's obtuse to do so because it's one of the most fundamental damage concepts that exists, in ANY game. Competitive game modes that allow no chance for counterplay simply die as people default to what's broken. Long ranged classes one-(or two or three or even 4) shotting people from max range is just one example of that. If you love WvW and PVP in this game, you will recognize the harm big damage/long range encounters can pose to these modes of play. I dont get why you are complaining about this. In pvp rifle deadeyes gets countered by daredevil/core thieves. I doubt adding more range to thieves will make much difference. In WvW thieves are just roamers, it wouldnt affect much since wvw is about raids fighting, atleast with increased range thieves could be a real threat to someone in the opposite raid, while still getting countered by daredevil/core thieves. But i would personally prefer having rangers range fixed, now if its suppose to be more than whats displayed in the tooltip, then deadeyes should have the same range while kneeling. Being immobilized is already a huge tradeoff for the extra range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 You should get why I'm complaining about it ... I explained why. I don't care about who's range is broken or whatever. I'm talking about the effect that lack of counterplay has in competitive gamemodes ... and the counterplay that exists to long range/big damage combinations is VERY limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails.9372 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > I'm talking about the effect that lack of counterplay has in competitive gamemodes ... No you're not, you were making up strawmans about how people supposedly want to disassociate "the range advantage from the damage". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Tails.9372" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > I'm talking about the effect that lack of counterplay has in competitive gamemodes ... > No you're not, you were making up strawmans about how people supposedly want to disassociate "the range advantage from the damage". Convince yourself whatever you like. Anet is big on counterplay. You don't get that when you match big damage with long range. As far as I'm concerned, that's a reason to not ignore that fundamental link between damage and range that many people simply dismiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails.9372 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Anet is big on counterplay. You don't get that when you match big damage with long range. Only if one looks at these two things as if they only exist inside of a vacuum which would be a stupid thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 > @"Tails.9372" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > Anet is big on counterplay. You don't get that when you match big damage with long range. > Only if one looks at these two things as if they only exist inside of a vacuum which would be a stupid thing to do. Maybe ... that depends quite a bit on how the other 'things' in the game work. If someone could access a significant uptime, passive projectile reflect, then yes, I could see what you are saying ... but I don't see anything close to that in this game. The best we got is Aegis. I still can't see it being reasonable to having biggest damage and longest range available in combination with each other. Certainly not without some very significant restrictions or compromises ... OR some very significant advantages for melee weapons. The fact remains that as a first order level of balance, range MUST be inversely related to damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozey.8513 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Like all Anet has to do, is make it so that after exceeding maximum shooting range arrows will immediately disappear just like bullets do, thus everyone will have the exactly same range which is displayed on the skills. Easy fix, please implement it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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