Would be a general Damage nerf good for the PvP

[Zenix.6198]

To all the people that say those builds are merely gimmicks, here are some fun little facts about the powercreep that happened with the last few patches (and PoF in general).

 

Thief "Backstab" is considered a high burst skill that can net you a kill very quickly if executed/timed correctly, right?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAoan8lCFOhlPBmOB8PhFYCTLBEA2NephzQbYOEeCbhA-jpAXABaWGAg9HAA

 

^This build (or a close variation) is what thieves ran in HoT and as you can see, Backstab has about ~1.9k base dmg.

Ingame you would see this skill hit targets for about ~8ish k dmg on a crit. Bare in mind this is without any might, which most classes in the OPs post have quite a lot of access to. So...1.9k base dmg.

 

Now, play round a bit with the buildkonstruktor and switch through all the mentioned classes. Keep a amulet/rune with major power stats.

You will find that A LOT of classes have MULTIPLE skills that are equally close - if not higher - to that 1.9k base dmg.

 

Just some examples:

 

Guardian: Zealots defense (2.1k), Shield of wrath (1.8k), Ray of Judgement (2.3k)

Soulbeast (with a merged smokescale): Smoke assault (530 x 5), Maul (2.1k), Counterattack (1.6k), Wordly Impact (2.4k)

Warrior: Arcing slice (1.7k <50% health), Rush (1.5k), Rampage (almost all skills within 1.4 and 2k)

Reaper: Ghastly Claws (3.2k), Death's Charge (1.4k), Executioner's Scythe (1.7 - 2.7k depending on life)

 

And almost all of those skills have additional effects, like an evadeframe or movement or (soft)CC etc.etc.

Most of those classes also have access to more dmg modifiers than a D/P thief, even if just by having 25 might or some ferocity bonus (like Revenant for instance).

 

 

[Sampson.2403]

What we really need is to remove anti one shot passive abilities like endure pain, elixer s etc. These passive abilities are such bs and remove the punishment thats deserved for having slow reactions.

[Luca.4670]

Fa ele..really? do you ever play pvp?fa ele is very subpar and needs buff not nerfs lol. If you really think it needs nerf you must just stop pvp already.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > They have extreme cases like ranger. Oneshotting groups with Worldy Impact.

>

> Eh. I don't think this trick can work more than, okay, two times during a particular PvP match. After it happens to you once, you know what to watch out for and whom to focus.

 

I did say extreme cases . . . .Like that isn't the norm of what I have seen

[Solori.6025]

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> To all the people that say those builds are merely gimmicks, here are some fun little facts about the powercreep that happened with the last few patches (and PoF in general).

>

> Thief "Backstab" is considered a high burst skill that can net you a kill very quickly if executed/timed correctly, right?

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAoan8lCFOhlPBmOB8PhFYCTLBEA2NephzQbYOEeCbhA-jpAXABaWGAg9HAA

>

> ^This build (or a close variation) is what thieves ran in HoT and as you can see, Backstab has about ~1.9k base dmg.

> Ingame you would see this skill hit targets for about ~8ish k dmg on a crit. Bare in mind this is without any might, which most classes in the OPs post have quite a lot of access to. So...1.9k base dmg.

>

> Now, play round a bit with the buildkonstruktor and switch through all the mentioned classes. Keep a amulet/rune with major power stats.

> You will find that A LOT of classes have MULTIPLE skills that are equally close - if not higher - to that 1.9k base dmg.

>

> Just some examples:

>

> Guardian: Zealots defense (2.1k), Shield of wrath (1.8k), Ray of Judgement (2.3k)

> Soulbeast (with a merged smokescale): Smoke assault (530 x 5), Maul (2.1k), Counterattack (1.6k), Wordly Impact (2.4k)

> Warrior: Arcing slice (1.7k <50% health), Rush (1.5k), Rampage (almost all skills within 1.4 and 2k)

> Reaper: Ghastly Claws (3.2k), Death's Charge (1.4k), Executioner's Scythe (1.7 - 2.7k depending on life)

>

> And almost all of those skills have additional effects, like an evadeframe or movement or (soft)CC etc.etc.

> Most of those classes also have access to more dmg modifiers than a D/P thief, even if just by having 25 might or some ferocity bonus (like Revenant for instance).

>

>

 

Sooo..That build was mainly used for impacting disruption, which at the time of HoT was very punishing for people because that trait could continuously hit you for 4k's in addition to anything else the thief was doing.

Backstab was not the sole damage dealer of that build.

Now if you want a build that used Backstab as it's sole finish/opener

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVn8lCNOhlPBmOB8PhFaCTLAMhiAehhvQZYuC+BHhA-jVAXAAw+DAA-w

^ that's the build you would use. That build is in no way (in my opinion) the best for Spvp but you would get more damage out of backstab but also taking a stroll down memory lane.

That is near the same build people used ( minus the deadeye traitline) before HoT and even then it hit like a truck, if you landed it properly.

 

While I am not disagreeing with your point about other skills numbers ( I haven't taken the time to compare them in the same bubble because usually that's pointless). You presented Backstab as a comparison without building like a thief would *for* backstab. That provides a disingenuous argument , which is misleading.

 

Edit: I noticed I left PI in the build i linked, that isn't usually taken in that build so disregard that error if it bothers you :O

[Zenix.6198]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > To all the people that say those builds are merely gimmicks, here are some fun little facts about the powercreep that happened with the last few patches (and PoF in general).

> >

> > Thief "Backstab" is considered a high burst skill that can net you a kill very quickly if executed/timed correctly, right?

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAoan8lCFOhlPBmOB8PhFYCTLBEA2NephzQbYOEeCbhA-jpAXABaWGAg9HAA

> >

> > ^This build (or a close variation) is what thieves ran in HoT and as you can see, Backstab has about ~1.9k base dmg.

> > Ingame you would see this skill hit targets for about ~8ish k dmg on a crit. Bare in mind this is without any might, which most classes in the OPs post have quite a lot of access to. So...1.9k base dmg.

> >

> > Now, play round a bit with the buildkonstruktor and switch through all the mentioned classes. Keep a amulet/rune with major power stats.

> > You will find that A LOT of classes have MULTIPLE skills that are equally close - if not higher - to that 1.9k base dmg.

> >

> > Just some examples:

> >

> > Guardian: Zealots defense (2.1k), Shield of wrath (1.8k), Ray of Judgement (2.3k)

> > Soulbeast (with a merged smokescale): Smoke assault (530 x 5), Maul (2.1k), Counterattack (1.6k), Wordly Impact (2.4k)

> > Warrior: Arcing slice (1.7k <50% health), Rush (1.5k), Rampage (almost all skills within 1.4 and 2k)

> > Reaper: Ghastly Claws (3.2k), Death's Charge (1.4k), Executioner's Scythe (1.7 - 2.7k depending on life)

> >

> > And almost all of those skills have additional effects, like an evadeframe or movement or (soft)CC etc.etc.

> > Most of those classes also have access to more dmg modifiers than a D/P thief, even if just by having 25 might or some ferocity bonus (like Revenant for instance).

> >

> >

>

> Sooo..That build was mainly used for impacting disruption, which at the time of HoT was very punishing for people because that trait could continuously hit you for 4k's in addition to anything else the thief was doing.

> Backstab was not the sole damage dealer of that build.

> Now if you want a build that used Backstab as it's sole finish/opener

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVn8lCNOhlPBmOB8PhFaCTLAMhiAehhvQZYuC+BHhA-jVAXAAw+DAA-w

> ^ that's the build you would use. That build is in no way (in my opinion) the best for Spvp but you would get more damage out of backstab but also taking a stroll down memory lane.

> That is near the same build people used ( minus the deadeye traitline) before HoT and even then it hit like a truck, if you landed it properly.

>

> While I am not disagreeing with your point about other skills numbers ( I haven't taken the time to compare them in the same bubble because usually that's pointless). You presented Backstab as a comparison without building like a thief would *for* backstab. That provides a disingenuous argument , which is misleading.

>

> Edit: I noticed I left PI in the build i linked, that isn't usually taken in that build so disregard that error if it bothers you :O

 

Well....ty.

But that rly wasnt the argument i was trying to make^^.

It rly was just a reference point to compare the dmg of certain skills to a burst skill people are familiar with....so backstab was one of the first that came to mind.

 

[Aihao.5824]

pls no, we dont need another one world of warcraft, close theme pls.

[jihm.2315]

> @"Aihao.5824" said:

> pls no, we dont need another one world of warcraft, close theme pls.

 

maybe we need gw1 :D

[Elrond.9486]

Lol, can someone please tell me exactly what this one-shot core guard build/rotation is? I just keep hearing about but...

[Legacy.7360]

The issue is more towards might stacking and having it last for an eternity, ie Rev's and Mesmers. The power creep is there and guess who holds the records for burst potential? The might stackers. Cap Might at 10 and we'll see how it plays out.

 

Not all class's have the ability to might stack, really puts the burst potential one sided.

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Elrond.9486" said:

> Lol, can someone please tell me exactly what this one-shot core guard build/rotation is? I just keep hearing about but...

 

It is allegedly mighty blow (hammer 2) with max ferocity while buffed (retaliation, might, fury) that you direct at your enemy mid blink with your F1 activated that lucky crits on both the skill hit and the glacial heart explosion. At least that's what I thought it was.

[Patrick.2987]

> @"Legacy.7360" said:

> The issue is more towards might stacking and having it last for an eternity, ie Rev's and Mesmers. The power creep is there and guess who holds the records for burst potential? The might stackers. Cap Might at 10 and we'll see how it plays out.

>

> Not all class's have the ability to might stack, really puts the burst potential one sided.

 

This is why you have a team game and people are able to share those boons. If you cap it at small numbers so no one needs it a lot of builds will get useless. Maybe just change some builds to make them have to invest in mightstacking if they want to have it. I think it would be a way better solution.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Pati.2438" said:

> Hey guys! The title of this discussion would see you my question! Would be a general Damage nerf (PvP only) good for the PvP-Game mode? I see so many oneshot builds this time in the meta and its not rly funny to play vs them! It's like who oneshot you first? The biggest absurd thing be that conditions are not rly work like they should work. They should kill you after time and not like one burst and your down. The condition damage at least be the reason why Anet buff Power builds to oneshot! So my suggestion for the pvp balance be cut off the pvp from the pve and balance them right! That will bring back the fun in pvp cause you dont get a oneshot from all builds and it will be not as frustrating as it be nowdays. Here are some Builds that could oneshot you:

>

> Hammer-Core Guardian (could oneshot you in less then 2 seconds after port you cant reaction fast enough)

> Greatsword-Core Guardian (be rly glassy i think this dont be a hard problem in pvp)

> Power Mirage (daze spaming plus mutch invulnerability, blindness, stealth and ports)

> Condition Mirage (made too mutch stacks of confusion in less then 3 seconds)

> Core Warrior (maybe with Rampagne and Berserker's Power )

> Spellbraker (too fast mightstacking with the Magebane Teager / the full counter should stun only one targed maybe the one who hit in the full counter)

> Deadeye ( this specialization should not be playable in pvp cause it will be too broken if he oneshot all your enemys and have perma stealth)

> Freshair ele (have mutch speed blindness and oneshot you easily)

> Holosmith (not that a problem but have too many stuns)

> Soulbeast (pets = 10k dmg outputt/longbow= 10k dmg outputt / Wordly impakt = 10k dmg outputt that kitten plus unblockable hits for 4 seconds i think nothing to say more right?)

>

>

>

>

> P.S: Sorry about my bad english! And probably there are too many stuns ingame too!

>

 

It's called **Map Awareness** and **ability to work as a team**

[Zenix.6198]

> @"Patrick.2987" said:

> > @"Legacy.7360" said:

> > The issue is more towards might stacking and having it last for an eternity, ie Rev's and Mesmers. The power creep is there and guess who holds the records for burst potential? The might stackers. Cap Might at 10 and we'll see how it plays out.

> >

> > Not all class's have the ability to might stack, really puts the burst potential one sided.

>

> This is why you have a team game and people are able to share those boons. If you cap it at small numbers so no one needs it a lot of builds will get useless. Maybe just change some builds to make them have to invest in mightstacking if they want to have it. I think it would be a way better solution.

 

While we are at it can we get rid of those obnoxiously high crit chance traits?

Like Roiling Mists, Righteous Instincts and Death Perception?

 

Some classes are reaching stats like you would in endgame PvE content with dedicated supports.

Like Rev having 25 might and 100% critchance.