[QoL] Skill Icon tooltips: so annoying for "clickers" :(

[Ashantara.8731]

Please, for the love of the Six, err, Five: **Add an option that can regulate the delay of tooltips** (with a checkbox in addition to completely deactivate them if needed).

 

For instance, just now, I couldn't see Hablion (Boss Blitz) use his whirling attack because one of the tooltops is so long that it covered him completely. :angry:

[Nightmare.1234]

I been wanting an option to turn tooltips off for years. I feel anet dont like skill clickers, i dont have alot of choice playing with a controller. I would even happliy take a 50% opacity reduction in the tooltips just so i can see past them as an option.

[Mea.5491]

Fun fact: GW1 has this option (on/off button for tooltips). :( Not sure why GW2 has less UI customization options.

[OneYenShort.3189]

Sign me up for a delay.

There used to be a delay of some form of tip, I think it was skills, but I could not find it when I went through to look. Those auto popups are freaking annoying and intrusive.

 

Just like Skype always freaking pops up messages. I want the options to turn that OFF/delay it.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Mea.5491" said:

> Fun fact: GW1 has this option (on/off button for tooltips). :( Not sure why GW2 has less UI customization options.

 

For the same reason(s) we don't have skill templates or other QoL mechanics that GW1 already had.

[Algreg.3629]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > > Because users are consistently dumber now then they used to be. Everything is on by default, because odds are they'll never understand or use something other wise. As for why you can't turn some things off? Its because there are people who can't figure out how to turn things back on, and will get mad when it actually does something important. [...]

> > >

> > > That's no valid reason to me. If anything, it will only teach people to become even more "lazy-brained". Also, why should others have to suffer for their lack of orientation in handling a game's settings and options?

> >

> > ...like learning how to push which buttons?

>

> button <> key

>

> I have played computer games since the early 1980s, and you get used to certain habits in handling your input devices. For instance, I don't feel comfortable using WASD at the same time as the number keys and don't know how people manage to do that comfortably (maybe because - as a woman - I have smaller hands than the average boy gamer, but really, the reason doesn't matter).

>

> Most importantly: What does this have to do with laziness or the inability to think? Answer: Nothing. I am more than capable of navigating the game's settings just fine on my own, thank you, and just because I enjoy the playstyle of clicking skills on-screen rather than using the number keys doesn't mean I am "dumb" - so stop trying to insult me for wanting valid options that have been present in Guild Wars (even in GW2) in the past.

>

> By the way, I am not the one who started to derail this topic into that direction...

>

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > Because they are the majority, and will be encountering these problems the most.

>

> You seem to have a pretty bad impression of today's online gaming communities (I would like to remind you that this isn't Steam ;) ). While I agree that there are those who have become lazy due to modern media thinking on their behalf, I have met enough bright youngsters and oldtimers alike to disagree with your point of view, and therefore wouldn't generalize like that.

>

> I don't think adding options that were there before and can help clickers like me will do any harm to anyone's ability to handle the game's settings properly. ;)

 

neither dumb nor lazy, but there is a thing about not wanting to go out of your ways. You apparently do fine, so do your thing. But often, adapting to new ways will improve things for yourself. I mean, in this case, it really isn`t a life changing experience I presume :) But "clicking" will always be inferior to using your keyboard. It hinders your ability to turn around/view quickly, it takes longer to navigate to the icons than moving your fingers, I imagine most people will have to take a quick glance at the bottom of the screen to click the right icon. Now, I don´t doubt you can play better "clicking" than a given player using keys. But all things equal - experience with the method, reaction time etc. - a "clicker" will always be behind. But it is up to everyone's choice if you want to relearn things. And to get back to the original issue: People complaining about not being able to reset UI changes, so we leave them out... come one, at some point, players are still human beings, not monkeys.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> neither dumb nor lazy, but there is a thing about not wanting to go out of your ways. You apparently do fine, so do your thing. But often, adapting to new ways will improve things for yourself.

 

Like I stated before, it is not a matter of wanting but of being able to. My fingers aren't long enough to reach the keys 5 and beyond without moving away from the movement keys (WASD), and that is a no-go for me (especially when I prefer to have my thumb rested on the Space key and my pinkie finger on the Shift key) as it would result in major discomfort and in-game movement issues. That's why, in all games (for instance CS:GO), I always have the most vital functions bound to nearby keys and the mouse buttons (also, can't use the NUM keys, because that would require me to let go of the mouse, which would be total nonsense in GW2).

 

Anyway, again, **this is not the point of this thread**. I don't wish to argue about practicality or physical restrictions. This thread is not about which method of using skills is the best but to ask the devs **to have a vital functionality returned that was already in the game, namely the option to delay tooltips or completely deactivate them at your own convenience.** Period. Whether _you_ will make use of it or not is irrelevant.

[Vavume.8065]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

 

> Like I stated before, it is not a matter of wanting but of being able to. My fingers aren't long enough to reach the keys 5 and beyond without moving away from the movement keys (WASD), and that is a no-go for me

 

Try getting a mouse with 10+ buttons on it, the Logitech G502 for example is an excellent mouse for MMO gaming.

[Ameepa.6793]

Remember that you can bind same keys multiple times. 1,2,3,4,R, shift+1, shift+2, shift+3.., ctrl+1, ctrl+2, ctrl+3.. V, C, X, Z, mouse thumb buttons, mouse middle, with shift, control..

 

I always bind absolutely everything to keys/buttons and use mouse only for steering and targeting AOEs

[Blocki.4931]

Do you play on the tiniest resolution possible??????

 

I don't see how you would ever hover a skill. You click it and the tooltip barely shows up & you're done with it

[Zaklex.6308]

As I said in the other thread about clickers...there's absolutely no reason to hover over the icons that long to even trigger the tool tips. I'm a clicker, I don't have to look at the icons to know what I'm using, I've been doing it long enough and playing the same character long enough to know where everything is, plus my hand/eye coordination is just that good(for PvE, though I've done it in PvP/WvW as well, but that was way back in the early days, those aren't my personal preferences of game type to play).

 

Also, if you had the option to turn off the tool tips, why would the person that turned them off then turn them back on, they turned them off for a reason.

[Algreg.3629]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > neither dumb nor lazy, but there is a thing about not wanting to go out of your ways. You apparently do fine, so do your thing. But often, adapting to new ways will improve things for yourself.

>

> Like I stated before, it is not a matter of wanting but of being able to. My fingers aren't long enough to reach the keys 5 and beyond without moving away from the movement keys (WASD), and that is a no-go for me (especially when I prefer to have my thumb rested on the Space key and my pinkie finger on the Shift key) as it would result in major discomfort and in-game movement issues. That's why, in all games (for instance CS:GO), I always have the most vital functions bound to nearby keys and the mouse buttons (also, can't use the NUM keys, because that would require me to let go of the mouse, which would be total nonsense in GW2).

>

> Anyway, again, **this is not the point of this thread**. I don't wish to argue about practicality or physical restrictions. This thread is not about which method of using skills is the best but to ask the devs **to have a vital functionality returned that was already in the game, namely the option to delay tooltips or completely deactivate them at your own convenience.** Period. Whether _you_ will make use of it or not is irrelevant.

 

not to give the wrong impression: that is perfectly fine. And I am all for more customization of the whole UI, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment of information.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Do you play on the tiniest resolution possible??????

 

??? What are you talking about? How would it make sense to play on the "tiniest resolution", then complain about tooltips covering too much of the screen? :s Oh boy.

 

I play, as everyone should, on my monitor's native resolution, with the UI text size set to large (and no, why should I have to reduce the text size when the game could simply give me back the option to regulate the delay of tooltips, as it used to?).

 

> I don't see how you would ever hover a skill. You click it and the tooltip barely shows up & you're done with it

 

I hover skills in preparation of using them? Because I pre-think my next move which gives enough time for the frikkin' tooltips to show up?

 

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> As I said in the other thread about clickers...there's absolutely no reason to hover over the icons that long to even trigger the tool tips.

 

They come up immediately, for Christ's sake! Also, what do you expect me to do, to always quickly remove the mouse pointer from the skill bar area after the use of each skill?! That would make things much _slower_, not faster. (Logic?)

 

Can you people just stop discussing the playstyle and trying to lecture me, and instead stick to the point? Which is:

 

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> [...] I am all for more customization of the whole UI, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment of information.

 

Exactly. Thank you.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Do you play on the tiniest resolution possible??????

>

> ??? What are you talking about? How would it make sense to play on the "tiniest resolution", then complain about tooltips covering too much of the screen? :s Oh boy.

>

> I play, as everyone should, on my monitor's native resolution, with the UI text size set to large (and no, why should I have to reduce the text size when the game could simply give me back the option to regulate the delay of tooltips, as it used to?).

>

> > I don't see how you would ever hover a skill. You click it and the tooltip barely shows up & you're done with it

>

> I hover skills in preparation of using them? Because I pre-think my next move which gives enough time for the frikkin' tooltips to show up?

>

 

...

 

Tooltips never "cover an enemy completely" to me, which is why I was wondering how you could possibly have that issue. They take up maybe 20% of my screen and they are never in the middle of the screen where the enemy would be.

 

I click spells as well, but I don't understand the need to hover it for longer than the act of clicking. But yeah, have a good day. Hope it gets changed for the three people having an issue (no snark intended)

 

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Tooltips never "cover an enemy completely" to me

 

Because you haven't selected "large UI text size" in the settings.

 

> Hope it gets changed for the three people having an issue (no snark intended)

 

Sure, no snark intended, yet dealt. Just because some players need larger text means there is only three of us? Also, this is an option available in GW1 and was also available in GW2. It is not like none of the devs ever thought about it - **it was already there.**

 

I am signing off of this thread, you smarta**es are starting to piss me off.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Tooltips never "cover an enemy completely" to me

>

> Because you haven't selected "large UI text size" in the settings.

>

> > Hope it gets changed for the three people having an issue (no snark intended)

>

> Sure, no snark intended, yet dealt. Just because some players need larger text means there is only three of us? Also, this is an option available in GW1 and was also available in GW2. It is not like none of the devs ever thought about it - **it was already there.**

>

> I am signing off of this thread, you smarta**es are starting to kitten me off.

 

Sorry for irritating you, my Interface size is set to Normal(I don't have a specific setting for UI size, just Interface and I presume that is what you meant, since it also offers Large, Larger and Small options besides Normal) and I honestly don't even notice the tool tips except for when someone mentions it. I guess it also has something to do with playing Windowed Fullscreen mode, which I use because for some odd reason it increases FPS and is easier to switch between GW2, other games and browser windows. I do remember the option to hide them, not sure why it was removed and everyone is allowed to play as they see fit. I guess it's partly because I play the same character so much and use almost only two sets of weapons I know the skills without even having to read them and just have a set pattern of how to use them based on their cool downs.

[Algreg.3629]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Tooltips never "cover an enemy completely" to me

>

> Because you haven't selected "large UI text size" in the settings.

>

> > Hope it gets changed for the three people having an issue (no snark intended)

>

> Sure, no snark intended, yet dealt. Just because some players need larger text means there is only three of us? Also, this is an option available in GW1 and was also available in GW2. It is not like none of the devs ever thought about it - **it was already there.**

>

> I am signing off of this thread, you smarta**es are starting to kitten me off.

 

Generation C64 is approaching their 50s now. So I doubt in game ergonomics are a niche thing.

[OneYenShort.3189]

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> Generation C64 is approaching their 50s now. So I doubt in game ergonomics are a niche thing.

if you review what actual ergonomics are, and what is still being produced, you will see that they are indeed a niche thing still.

 

The other point with all these others saying "go buy this" or "change your play style to be more like ME." What is your issue about having an additional option added? Why do you have such hate for having options to better control things?

[Algreg.3629]

> @"OneYenShort.3189" said:

> > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > Generation C64 is approaching their 50s now. So I doubt in game ergonomics are a niche thing.

> if you review what actual ergonomics are, and what is still being produced, you will see that they are indeed a niche thing still.

>

> The other point with all these others saying "go buy this" or "change your play style to be more like ME." What is your issue about having an additional option added? Why do you have such hate for having options to better control things?

 

not a niche market though, and growing.

[Diva.4706]

Every time I have asked for the option to hide tool tips, people have said just bind your keys. This does not solve our issue, because we do NOT play that way. We click abilities. The game provides this functionality in the UI. We just want the OPTION to disable tool tips. This does not effect key bind players in any way. I wish ArenaNet would give us a straight up answer as to why we can't have this feature.

So the next time someone asks for this feature, (as I'm sure they will), don't tell them to bind keys. It isn't a solution.

[Diva.4706]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Do you play on the tiniest resolution possible??????

>

> ??? What are you talking about? How would it make sense to play on the "tiniest resolution", then complain about tooltips covering too much of the screen? :s Oh boy.

>

> I play, as everyone should, on my monitor's native resolution, with the UI text size set to large (and no, why should I have to reduce the text size when the game could simply give me back the option to regulate the delay of tooltips, as it used to?).

>

> > I don't see how you would ever hover a skill. You click it and the tooltip barely shows up & you're done with it

>

> I hover skills in preparation of using them? Because I pre-think my next move which gives enough time for the frikkin' tooltips to show up?

>

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > As I said in the other thread about clickers...there's absolutely no reason to hover over the icons that long to even trigger the tool tips.

>

> They come up immediately, for Christ's sake! Also, what do you expect me to do, to always quickly remove the mouse pointer from the skill bar area after the use of each skill?! That would make things much _slower_, not faster. (Logic?)

>

> Can you people just stop discussing the playstyle and trying to lecture me, and instead stick to the point? Which is:

>

> > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > [...] I am all for more customization of the whole UI, especially when it comes to the constant bombardment of information.

>

> Exactly. Thank you.

 

Ashantara.8731

I feel your frustration.

Every day.

Clicky players unite!

[OneYenShort.3189]

I bet these same anti clicky players also cry up a storm whenever someone greifs them by droping junk in the area they need to interact with and oh look... they can't because they are keybound. They have to go click with the mouse.

 

for the record, my keys are bound and I still want this option.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"OneYenShort.3189" said:

> > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > Generation C64 is approaching their 50s now. So I doubt in game ergonomics are a niche thing.

> if you review what actual ergonomics are, and what is still being produced, you will see that they are indeed a niche thing still.

>

> The other point with all these others saying "go buy this" or "change your play style to be more like ME." What is your issue about having an additional option added? Why do you have such hate for having options to better control things?

 

Its a reaction to seeing modern game design experience an equivalent of Homer rolling down the side of a mountain, and hitting every object on the way down. I've seen games that make no apology for having a ton of options and controls to support a flat mapping setup, and it is a complete nightmare unless you dedicate learning how to operate it as if you were a professional in a field. Flight sims are the worst in this regard, because everything there has distinct functions, with control existing for a particular reason.

 

As more abilities are added to modern games, they become harder to manage. And if your game also needs fast pacing (which summarizes the underlying problem with action games), you need to stream line as much as possible to prevent stalling during play. Learning curve can only fix so much; and there is a huge reason hot key interfaces run much stronger then 2nd or 3rd order input systems. For the most part, clicking interfaces in an action game is a crutch to address 2 problems; the unintuitive nature of our input devices, and a visual layer to bridge the abstraction between input and action. They eventually become less of an issue once players learn to use a more efficient interface; hotkeys being the strongest for 1:1 activation and parallel execution, largely due to needing the least amount of precision and offering the lowest latency.

 

My issue isn't specifically with "adding options", but the recognition that when a certain % of your UI even needs that many options there is now a serious underlying problem that needs to be addressed. Guildwars2's UI is already heavily stream lined to make the UI less complicated, so you're spending more time engaging the game environment then engaging the UI. But over time, the UI has been getting additional layers of information and functions that require additional interfaces to interact with, AND nearly all of those functions needing fast reactions to make use of. The game is almost twice as fast as it was at launch, and the amount of hot keys needed on quick access increased by roughly 50% to not stall. Mounts alone are 4 keys, because you often need to swap mounts for utility reasons, and transition immediately between them to not run the risk of getting stuck in combat (which disables they use).

 

The ergonomics problem has always existed in many of the keyboard designs; but previously that didn't matter as much because you didn't need as many buttons on quick access to keep up with the game. Fixing the ergonomics problems frees up concerns the software has to deal with; but for the most part, we've been forced to address this problem the other way around...... and its reaching a point where our current methodology has reached a breaking point. This is the controller problem consoles had 3 generations ago, and have made no additional progress since then. Instead, games are automating more to remove the UI from the equation. But with the type of game GW2 is, with the distinct function of skills/actions, that actually removes game play from the system. Which is why every time we need a new ability/mechanic added on top of the existing ones, it has to get a new hot key added along side the UI updates. The action key's big saving grace is being contextual. But what happens if a fight needs 2 of these types of mechanics at the same time?

 

Clicking has always been objectively worse then hot keys..... but gap between them wasn't as big as it is now, because the demands were never as high as they are now. When taken in isolation, adding the option to hide tool tips seems inconsequential...... but when you start viewing all the interactions, and listing all the tiny problems as you explore each one, you start to realize you're making a trade off rather then an improvement. Combine that with the level of tolerance (or more aptly the lack thereof) in the current audience for any form of discomfort, and every one change cascades into several changes to touch on every group's preferences. The cost of this is exponential upkeep in the design process, because you can't make the assumption a certain set of conditions are being met by the client side to leverage in something's design. Like how lighting and effect options have essentially rendered both light and environmental queues a liability in any situation that requires a players attention, because they might not be able to see it if their options are disabled. The more competitive in nature a game is, the more likely these options are removed for an advantage by the players.

 

This is why minimalist designs were so popular in the last generation in games, because leading up to it, because everything became an unwieldy mess that resulted in information overload; made worse whenever that information is actually important. Like mini map radar verses HUD markers.

 

 

I take this situation with "clickers" as the culmination of multiple issues spread across several areas (from hardware to software to player psychology), and long overdue for some real attention by all parties involved- rather then just band-aiding over it with a short term fix that compounds into a bigger problem further down the line. This would never be tolerated for a balance issue with classes, yet its treated with more ignorance and flippancy by the player base, despite having similar impact on game flow.

 

And this isn't even acknowledging the multitude of issues raised once you start physical disabilities into the conversation. Things with very obviously need to be addressed at the core design level to even accommodate properly.

 

I also have a similar issue with people who assume sliders will fix every problem, typically ignoring the underlying engineering requirements to even get a gradient variable working correctly, much less the interactions with other variables. Just looking at our existing problems with armor and outfit skins on different races with different body types, should immediately make it clear that making something fit right is more complicated then just changing proportions.

 

And if one were to accuse me of overthinking things, I would rebut with "not thinking about it is why its such a problem in the first place".

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Mea.5491" said:

> Fun fact: GW1 has this option (on/off button for tooltips). :( Not sure why GW2 has less UI customization options.

 

Chalk it up to even more stuff that GW1 had that they never added to GW2.