CULTURAL/ RACE ABILITIES FOR ROLEPLAY ( NORN SOULBEAST)

[kenny leone.2973]

I was recently playing Soulbeast and thought I could make a Were-bear build as I it be fitting for the theme of the class. I decided to make a norn, bear spirit (Ingvar Bearclaw) and used the Braham outfit and used the '' Become the bear''. It was really fun but I found many Hiccups like not being able to attack while moving, 240 secs cooldown and so on.

 

Any chance the Dev's can take a second look at these skills an update them to be more user friendly? I know these skills are made intentionally worse than professions skills but making quality of life changes wouldn't hurt. So we Roleplayers can continue to have fun thematic builds. Thanks for your time!

[starlinvf.1358]

Nope. Because the effectiveness has to be kept low to avoid competition with class skills. When the game first launched, there were a hand full of Class/Race Combos that were disturbingly powerful due to nature of certain skills (especially among the elites). In a couple of cases it was the due to not having a practical Elite to make use of.

 

At any rate, they've indefinitely pushed those aside, with no plans to revisit them at all, unless one somehow becomes a problem again. Bear and Snow leopard skills are borderline OP if they can manage to connect, so that lack of mobility is the one thing thats let it slide this long. Engineer tool belt also gave a second life to certain skills, with the long cool downs keeping them less practical then most engineer skills.

 

As much as its been talked about in the community to revamp them for more theatrics at the cost of utility, Anet doesn't really want to spend resources on something they've been trying to keep out of circulation for a few years now.

[Opopanax.1803]

I think most racials are good, but agree that the Norn ones need a reduction to 180. They are already very weak compared to profession elites, there us no need for a 4 minute cd or rooting on attack.

[ROMANG.1903]

What if some profession skills had a race-based version? For example a Norn Warrior could receive a second Rampage elite, which would behave exactly the same but would change you into a bear instead of the usual look.

[kenny leone.2973]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> Nope. Because the effectiveness has to be kept low to avoid competition with class skills. When the game first launched, there were a hand full of Class/Race Combos that were disturbingly powerful due to nature of certain skills (especially among the elites). In a couple of cases it was the due to not having a practical Elite to make use of.

>

> At any rate, they've indefinitely pushed those aside, with no plans to revisit them at all, unless one somehow becomes a problem again. Bear and Snow leopard skills are borderline OP if they can manage to connect, so that lack of mobility is the one thing thats let it slide this long. Engineer tool belt also gave a second life to certain skills, with the long cool downs keeping them less practical then most engineer skills.

>

> As much as its been talked about in the community to revamp them for more theatrics at the cost of utility, Anet doesn't really want to spend resources on something they've been trying to keep out of circulation for a few years now.

 

I already said I know they are made intentionally worse, not saying they need to compete with profession skills, just little tweak to make them more usable at least, is that too much to ask? The race and their abilities are there for a reason; to add flavour to the game, just a little changes to make it more fun not to compete.

[Rauderi.8706]

Norn transformations ought to be more like a kit, anyway.

Maybe adjust the abilities in them for potency and cooldowns, begin the transformation skill cooldown (NOT 3-4 minutes...) after transforming back, and give the transformation a sufficient cast time so it's not abused.

 

Same for the Charrzooka.

[kenny leone.2973]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> What if some profession skills had a race-based version? For example a Norn Warrior could receive a second Rampage elite, which would behave exactly the same but would change you into a bear instead of the usual look.

 

That would be cool! if they have time for it, sure.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"kenny leone.2973" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > Nope. Because the effectiveness has to be kept low to avoid competition with class skills. When the game first launched, there were a hand full of Class/Race Combos that were disturbingly powerful due to nature of certain skills (especially among the elites). In a couple of cases it was the due to not having a practical Elite to make use of.

> >

> > At any rate, they've indefinitely pushed those aside, with no plans to revisit them at all, unless one somehow becomes a problem again. Bear and Snow leopard skills are borderline OP if they can manage to connect, so that lack of mobility is the one thing thats let it slide this long. Engineer tool belt also gave a second life to certain skills, with the long cool downs keeping them less practical then most engineer skills.

> >

> > As much as its been talked about in the community to revamp them for more theatrics at the cost of utility, Anet doesn't really want to spend resources on something they've been trying to keep out of circulation for a few years now.

>

> I already said I know they are made intentionally worse, not saying they need to compete with profession skills, just little tweak to make them more usable at least, is that too much to ask? The race and their abilities are there for a reason; to add flavour to the game, just a little changes to make it more fun not to compete.

 

Actually I think if Anet had to do it again, they probably wouldn't add racial skills. Or they would make them more aestetic than useful. Not saying I agree with them :P

[Algreg.3629]

> @"kenny leone.2973" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > Nope. Because the effectiveness has to be kept low to avoid competition with class skills. When the game first launched, there were a hand full of Class/Race Combos that were disturbingly powerful due to nature of certain skills (especially among the elites). In a couple of cases it was the due to not having a practical Elite to make use of.

> >

> > At any rate, they've indefinitely pushed those aside, with no plans to revisit them at all, unless one somehow becomes a problem again. Bear and Snow leopard skills are borderline OP if they can manage to connect, so that lack of mobility is the one thing thats let it slide this long. Engineer tool belt also gave a second life to certain skills, with the long cool downs keeping them less practical then most engineer skills.

> >

> > As much as its been talked about in the community to revamp them for more theatrics at the cost of utility, Anet doesn't really want to spend resources on something they've been trying to keep out of circulation for a few years now.

>

> I already said I know they are made intentionally worse, not saying they need to compete with profession skills, just little tweak to make them more usable at least, is that too much to ask? The race and their abilities are there for a reason; to add flavour to the game, just a little changes to make it more fun not to compete.

 

that depends, what do you mean by "more usable"? And what do you mean by roleplay? That happens mostly in your imagination, so pretend you are a werebeast. Or did you mean flavor really?

[kenny leone.2973]

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > @"kenny leone.2973" said:

> > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > Nope. Because the effectiveness has to be kept low to avoid competition with class skills. When the game first launched, there were a hand full of Class/Race Combos that were disturbingly powerful due to nature of certain skills (especially among the elites). In a couple of cases it was the due to not having a practical Elite to make use of.

> > >

> > > At any rate, they've indefinitely pushed those aside, with no plans to revisit them at all, unless one somehow becomes a problem again. Bear and Snow leopard skills are borderline OP if they can manage to connect, so that lack of mobility is the one thing thats let it slide this long. Engineer tool belt also gave a second life to certain skills, with the long cool downs keeping them less practical then most engineer skills.

> > >

> > > As much as its been talked about in the community to revamp them for more theatrics at the cost of utility, Anet doesn't really want to spend resources on something they've been trying to keep out of circulation for a few years now.

> >

> > I already said I know they are made intentionally worse, not saying they need to compete with profession skills, just little tweak to make them more usable at least, is that too much to ask? The race and their abilities are there for a reason; to add flavour to the game, just a little changes to make it more fun not to compete.

>

> that depends, what do you mean by "more usable"? And what do you mean by roleplay? That happens mostly in your imagination, so pretend you are a werebeast. Or did you mean flavor really?

 

What? of course Roleplay comes from the imagination, the whole game you're playing is based on one form of imagination or the other, so quit the condescending tone please. I gave examples how it could be more usable, like being able to move while attacking ( auto attack at least, doesn't have to be all skills) and maybe a 180 cooldown. The latter isn't necessary, if the devs feel it might start to compete with profession skills.

 

If you don't know what a Werebear is; it's a form of Lycantrophy, like a Werewolf ( being able to shape-shift into an animal). The norn elites are based on this.

[kenny leone.2973]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > @"kenny leone.2973" said:

> > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > Nope. Because the effectiveness has to be kept low to avoid competition with class skills. When the game first launched, there were a hand full of Class/Race Combos that were disturbingly powerful due to nature of certain skills (especially among the elites). In a couple of cases it was the due to not having a practical Elite to make use of.

> > >

> > > At any rate, they've indefinitely pushed those aside, with no plans to revisit them at all, unless one somehow becomes a problem again. Bear and Snow leopard skills are borderline OP if they can manage to connect, so that lack of mobility is the one thing thats let it slide this long. Engineer tool belt also gave a second life to certain skills, with the long cool downs keeping them less practical then most engineer skills.

> > >

> > > As much as its been talked about in the community to revamp them for more theatrics at the cost of utility, Anet doesn't really want to spend resources on something they've been trying to keep out of circulation for a few years now.

> >

> > I already said I know they are made intentionally worse, not saying they need to compete with profession skills, just little tweak to make them more usable at least, is that too much to ask? The race and their abilities are there for a reason; to add flavour to the game, just a little changes to make it more fun not to compete.

>

> Actually I think if Anet had to do it again, they probably wouldn't add racial skills. Or they would make them more aestetic than useful. Not saying I agree with them :P

 

I don't agree that they regret it, otherwise non of the races feel distinct, which is a pillar of the story. But you may be right, you are open to your opinion of course :)

[Jeknar.6184]

I wouldn't mind if they tweaked the racial skills to add some flavor to the PvE. Just disable them on WvW just like they are disabled in PvP and they can do whatever they want with the racial skills... I mean, I really doubt that with all the power creep from the new elite specializations that one of the racials can actually be good in Raids/Fractals and open world is the typical "everything goes" where people would be able to have fun with their not-so-good skills.

[derd.6413]

> @"Jeknar.6184" said:

> I wouldn't mind if they tweaked the racial skills to add some flavor to the PvE. Just disable them on WvW just like they are disabled in PvP and they can do whatever they want with the racial skills... I mean, I really doubt that with all the power creep from the new elite specializations that one of the racials can actually be good in Raids/Fractals and open world is the typical "everything goes" where people would be able to have fun with their not-so-good skills.

 

one of the sylvari elites became part of the raid meta for a while.

[Algreg.3629]

> @"kenny leone.2973" said:

> > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > > @"kenny leone.2973" said:

> > > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > > Nope. Because the effectiveness has to be kept low to avoid competition with class skills. When the game first launched, there were a hand full of Class/Race Combos that were disturbingly powerful due to nature of certain skills (especially among the elites). In a couple of cases it was the due to not having a practical Elite to make use of.

> > > >

> > > > At any rate, they've indefinitely pushed those aside, with no plans to revisit them at all, unless one somehow becomes a problem again. Bear and Snow leopard skills are borderline OP if they can manage to connect, so that lack of mobility is the one thing thats let it slide this long. Engineer tool belt also gave a second life to certain skills, with the long cool downs keeping them less practical then most engineer skills.

> > > >

> > > > As much as its been talked about in the community to revamp them for more theatrics at the cost of utility, Anet doesn't really want to spend resources on something they've been trying to keep out of circulation for a few years now.

> > >

> > > I already said I know they are made intentionally worse, not saying they need to compete with profession skills, just little tweak to make them more usable at least, is that too much to ask? The race and their abilities are there for a reason; to add flavour to the game, just a little changes to make it more fun not to compete.

> >

> > that depends, what do you mean by "more usable"? And what do you mean by roleplay? That happens mostly in your imagination, so pretend you are a werebeast. Or did you mean flavor really?

>

> What? of course Roleplay comes from the imagination, the whole game you're playing is based on one form of imagination or the other, so quit the condescending tone please. I gave examples how it could be more usable, like being able to move while attacking ( auto attack at least, doesn't have to be all skills) and maybe a 180 cooldown. The latter isn't necessary, if the devs feel it might start to compete with profession skills.

>

> If you don't know what a Werebear is; it's a form of Lycantrophy, like a Werewolf ( being able to shape-shift into an animal). The norn elites are based on this.

 

- everyone knows what a werebear is.

- Norn elites are not based on lycantrophy, but on the shamanic culture concept of the Norns present in GW1 where the Bear spirit played a much greater role. It could be argued that the medieval/christian concept of lycanthrophy as an affliction is a bastardization of the shamanic source.

- I am not quitting anything. I love roleplay (p&p). this game is not based on imagination, at least not the players'. This is not a sandbox of the mind. You can use it as a vehicle for roleplay. But game mechanics don`t have to conform to that. If you want to be a werebear, well, play that in town conversations or whereever rp happens in this game, transform occasionally, done.

- don't assume people who do not agree with you know less about things than you. I did my master thesis on horror, so I guess that settles the whole were-whatever. I played p&p roleplaying games for 30 years. I just do not subscribe to your opinion. It has been explained to you why the racial elites will probably not be touched.

- Yes, I am condescending when it comes to roleplayers in mmorpg. Everyone is. Some are sympathetic and benign, others openly hostile, some will admit it, some will not. But everyone is amused at best about rp players in online games. I had my share of cringeworthy hobby acting, adolescent display of emotions and sexuality and badly bastardized shakespearan/middle high english. I am totally for a dedicated rp server in GW2 to contain the awkwardness.

 

Kinda makes me laugh. I did my best to be nice and decent on the forum when I rejoined the game. And I think I managed well. But I just can't keep that up with the RP thing. Mixing with the comic book guy-personalities is an unhealthy thing for me, I am out of here.

[Magek.4718]

> @"Jeknar.6184" said:

> I wouldn't mind if they tweaked the racial skills to add some flavor to the PvE. Just disable them on WvW just like they are disabled in PvP and they can do whatever they want with the racial skills... I mean, I really doubt that with all the power creep from the new elite specializations that one of the racials can actually be good in Raids/Fractals and open world is the typical "everything goes" where people would be able to have fun with their not-so-good skills.

 

I used to see Seed Turret all the time at world bosses.

 

Kinda made me think Slyvari are objectively the best race because they have the only racial that sees any use.

 

Haven't done world bosses in a couple years, I wonder if it still sees use...

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Magek.4718" said:

> > @"Jeknar.6184" said:

> > I wouldn't mind if they tweaked the racial skills to add some flavor to the PvE. Just disable them on WvW just like they are disabled in PvP and they can do whatever they want with the racial skills... I mean, I really doubt that with all the power creep from the new elite specializations that one of the racials can actually be good in Raids/Fractals and open world is the typical "everything goes" where people would be able to have fun with their not-so-good skills.

>

> I used to see Seed Turret all the time at world bosses.

>

> Kinda made me think Slyvari are objectively the best race because they have the only racial that sees any use.

>

> Haven't done world bosses in a couple years, I wonder if it still sees use...

 

Even if they have “the best” racial it is still pretty crud in comparison to most class elite skills.

[kenny leone.2973]

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > @"kenny leone.2973" said:

> > > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > > > @"kenny leone.2973" said:

> > > > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > > > Nope. Because the effectiveness has to be kept low to avoid competition with class skills. When the game first launched, there were a hand full of Class/Race Combos that were disturbingly powerful due to nature of certain skills (especially among the elites). In a couple of cases it was the due to not having a practical Elite to make use of.

> > > > >

> > > > > At any rate, they've indefinitely pushed those aside, with no plans to revisit them at all, unless one somehow becomes a problem again. Bear and Snow leopard skills are borderline OP if they can manage to connect, so that lack of mobility is the one thing thats let it slide this long. Engineer tool belt also gave a second life to certain skills, with the long cool downs keeping them less practical then most engineer skills.

> > > > >

> > > > > As much as its been talked about in the community to revamp them for more theatrics at the cost of utility, Anet doesn't really want to spend resources on something they've been trying to keep out of circulation for a few years now.

> > > >

> > > > I already said I know they are made intentionally worse, not saying they need to compete with profession skills, just little tweak to make them more usable at least, is that too much to ask? The race and their abilities are there for a reason; to add flavour to the game, just a little changes to make it more fun not to compete.

> > >

> > > that depends, what do you mean by "more usable"? And what do you mean by roleplay? That happens mostly in your imagination, so pretend you are a werebeast. Or did you mean flavor really?

> >

> > What? of course Roleplay comes from the imagination, the whole game you're playing is based on one form of imagination or the other, so quit the condescending tone please. I gave examples how it could be more usable, like being able to move while attacking ( auto attack at least, doesn't have to be all skills) and maybe a 180 cooldown. The latter isn't necessary, if the devs feel it might start to compete with profession skills.

> >

> > If you don't know what a Werebear is; it's a form of Lycantrophy, like a Werewolf ( being able to shape-shift into an animal). The norn elites are based on this.

>

> - everyone knows what a werebear is.

> - Norn elites are not based on lycantrophy, but on the shamanic culture concept of the Norns present in GW1 where the Bear spirit played a much greater role. It could be argued that the medieval/christian concept of lycanthrophy as an affliction is a bastardization of the shamanic source.

> - I am not quitting anything. I love roleplay (p&p). this game is not based on imagination, at least not the players'. This is not a sandbox of the mind. You can use it as a vehicle for roleplay. But game mechanics don`t have to conform to that. If you want to be a werebear, well, play that in town conversations or whereever rp happens in this game, transform occasionally, done.

> - don't assume people who do not agree with you know less about things than you. I did my master thesis on horror, so I guess that settles the whole were-whatever. I played p&p roleplaying games for 30 years. I just do not subscribe to your opinion. It has been explained to you why the racial elites will probably not be touched.

> - Yes, I am condescending when it comes to roleplayers in mmorpg. Everyone is. Some are sympathetic and benign, others openly hostile, some will admit it, some will not. But everyone is amused at best about rp players in online games. I had my share of cringeworthy hobby acting, adolescent display of emotions and sexuality and badly bastardized shakespearan/middle high english. I am totally for a dedicated rp server in GW2 to contain the awkwardness.

>

> Kinda makes me laugh. I did my best to be nice and decent on the forum when I rejoined the game. And I think I managed well. But I just can't keep that up with the RP thing. Mixing with the comic book guy-personalities is an unhealthy thing for me, I am out of here.

 

 

 

Even if the norn elites are not based on lycantrophy, they essentially do the same thing. Obviously Gw2 doesn't just copy external themes but it doesn't mean they aren't inspired by them in one form or the other.

 

The game is based on a blend of Imagination( fantasy) and realism brought to life by excellent development contained in a sandbox. To think that it is not is laughable, I could give you many points to justify this but I hate typing long walls of text.

 

You are entitled to your opinion of course, that's why it's a discussion. I never assumed to know anymore than you ; the condescending tone implied of your questions made me render my explanations the way I did. Sounds a bit immature to take out your emotions on my post based on your past experiences and ironic that you are playing an mmorpg, but enough said.

 

I haven't the time nor the desire to convince you. I just wanted to see how many people feel the same way and hopefully a Dev can take a look. Believe as you will. Good day.

 

[Oglaf.1074]

Honestly the shapeshifter elites are so terrible in contrast to proper class ones I don’t see why Anet couldn’t simply make them a permanent on/off toggle (like how NPCs use them) so we could at least have fun role playing with them.