On the Subject of "Whales"

[Neural.1824]

> @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> My honest opinion: What possible reason is there for me to care what someone else spends on the game?

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

When the game is based on voluntary cash payments, then the source of that money inevitably influences the product.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

I buy keys. A lot. I'd say, 50€ a month. Sometimes a lot more, hardly ever less. And then do gold2gems too. Why? Because I like opening chests. Most of the stuff in them isn't really needed (anymore), but it is fun.

 

Am I a whale? Probably not. Make it 10x as much then maybe.

 

I get that some people can't or don't want to spend money. It is ok. And I get that some people spend a lot more money than I do. That is ok too. Each to their own. I am a slave to Evon Gnashblade's wicked chests, others collect skimmer skins. Whatever rocks ones boat. I am all fine with that. As long as anet makes enough money to keep the game going, without going the way of subscriptions, I won't complain. In fact, deep in my rotten heart, I thank all the real whales out there, who spend many hundred euros and more a month on qol and cosmetic items, because they keep the servers running. If this results in them being fancier, shinier, flashier than me, I am fine with that too. They earned it.

 

[phs.6089]

"Whales"- Wallet Warriors, referring to players that use real money in order to get better gear and equipment in games. There is nothing one can buy to have better gear and equipment in GW2. Simple.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

If the thought of "whales" bothers you, perhaps the issue is within oneself. It is in your best interest that they do exist to fund the next morsal of content. If someone chooses to buy whatever for whatever reason is entirely up to them and does not consern you. Perhaps your jealousy is taking the best of you causing irrational feelings that hold no merit.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> So I'm one of the whales. I've spent an awful lot of money on this game. I spend money because I have money. Whatever my hobby is at any given time I'm going to spend money on it.

>

> I don't sell gems to get gold though, I just buy stuff in the cash shop that I like, or in some cases, black lion keys, because I enjoy opening chests. The random factor doesn't particularly bother me, any more than it bothered me back in the days I used to buy base ball cards.

>

> If people want to judge me for supporting a game I play a lot of that's fine. Dollars per hour this is still the cheapest form of entertainment I've ever had. I play with my wife, and we both enjoy it. We're also both retired.

>

> But I'm not here to justify myself to anyone. I play and pay because I want to. If I had to, I wouldn't do it.

 

Well, since ArenaNet doesn't use a sub structure, they lack a financial foundation beyond the box sales. So in my view it's the whales that keep the game afloat. I personally don't have a problem spending money on a game when I feel it's done reasonably and it's useful for me. I actually like PoF a lot better and the game overall is more fun to me than it ever was before. I spent 20 bucks for PoF and about 80 bucks in gems to get some amenities, unlock the LS stories and to do get some gold. As I haven't played much I did need some gold to get me going on ascended gear crafting and aside from it being time gated, I enjoy that element of it. But with the daily areas from LS I am actually making some decent gold now so I probably won't have to buy gold again. I can now easily make 8-10 gold a day if I want to.

 

I think there is a downside to this whale thing, because the pricing of things are set accordingly and people with less money and time have a harder time getting some of these amenities. I personally quite enjoy the indestructible gathering tools but at 2400 gems for one character this can be a bit pricey for people and it is rather useful. I hated dealing with buying new ones and running out constantly so I didn't gather much before. Now I gather a lot more and I make money with that as well as save money for my armor crafting.

 

But you're right, hobbies cost money and if gaming is it, then why not spend it on gaming. I remember playing Warhammer 40k and spending a lot of money on miniatures, books and paints, etc. So I don't have a problem with people spending a lot on it. In fact without people like you, the game wouldn't be able to be very profitable.

 

And it's also a bit of understanding economics I think. If for example you could sell an upgrade for 800 gems and sell 1000 of them it's 800k gems that are spent. If you lowered the price to 400 gems and sell 1500 of them it's 600k gems that are spent. So people do have to understand that lowering the price isn't automatically more profit because you have more sales.

 

So thanks for being one of the people that keeps the game alive. We'll see in the coming week if you've spent enough :p

 

[STIHL.2489]

The trick with the term "Whale" and looking up what it means, is that it's a huge marine animal, but, it was also used in Gambling by Casinos to describe people that were above the High Rollers, but, they did not want to make a huge deal of it, so they started a code word "whale', the term Whale, is also often used commonly among society to mean "massive" "largest" "best" IE: _We are having a whale of a good time_.

 

Anyway, that aside. How much a _Whale_ spends, or what defines a _Whale_ in something like a game company, is contingent upon the game and it's demographic. In some cases it could be thousands others hundreds.

 

Like for example, using GW2, as a basis. If we took their earnings report, and what we could find out about their population numbers.

 

Now this is just some numbers fun, try not to read too much into it.

 

On average, from all their sales, from start to now (including all expansions and launch sales) Anet made (again on average) around $8 million a month. As best I could find out, Anet has around 1.5 to 3 million players, but the most reliable sources leans closer to the 1.5, so we are going to use that.

 

So that means, On average, every player spends around 5 dollars a month. Given that the smallest increment that can be bought is $10 we will say that only 50% of the players are buying money each month.

 

Now, I think there were some claims that a Whale was in the top 3% of the player base. So in GW2 to make it to the top 3%, someone would need to spend around $180 a month, but this would be if the whole game was supported by the top %3 of the players, so obviously these numbers are not really spot on.

 

The more people in each other demographic there are, the less there can be in any other demographic.

 

IE: If (Just to make some pointless number) lets say, 25% of the player base did in fact spend $10 a month (half the Average), that would provide Anet half of their 8 million, ergo 4 million dollars. Which means that to be in the Top 3% would only take spending around $100 a month (rounded up)

 

Just some fun numbers to play with since we were on the subject matter.

[Mirdave.2014]

I can only say thanks to those whales. With real money i have only bought the base game in 2012, the expansions (always the base ones) and maybe a bank expander and a character slot. All the other things that i have (up to 9 char slots, like 6 bank and 1 mats expander, bags space and BLC skins) are bought trough gold to gems conversion, or thanks to the gems earned by AP reward title. If all ppl here were like me ANET financials would be more than dead.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

It's absolutely wild to me that people want some sort of identifying symbol so they know just who is daring to spend money without their express approval

 

The Video Game Tribunal finds you guilty of the crime of unapproved commerce and you will be shipped off to the nearest Gulag immediately

[Corax.7692]

Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

 

The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

 

I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Corax.7692" said:

> Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

>

> The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

>

> I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

 

The thing is, one of the signature things of GW2 is that it does not (nor shall it ever) have a sub.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Corax.7692" said:

> > Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

> >

> > The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

> >

> > I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

>

> The thing is, one of the signature things of GW2 is that it does not (nor shall it ever) have a sub.

 

Which is nice for some but at the same time, if you buy 1 item a month, you pay as much as a sub on average. Now I agree that GW2 will never have a sub, but I do wonder why people are so excited about that, because in the end people spend more on this game than if it was a sub game, except of course if you don't spend any real cash and are basically mooching off the whales. Cause in the end the fact that someone doesn't have to pay a sub is because someone else is dropping real money in the gem store. Otherwise that wouldn't be possible. So really, people are just playing sub-free because others spend more than their share in the gem store and that's why the prices are higher than a lot of people might like, because that's how they make enough profit to cover the costs for the rest.

 

I suppose some people would like to have it both ways and not have a sub and get stuff cheaply, but that's not how it works. Someone has to pay for this game to keep it going and the people who complain about whales and the prices at the same time, seem to forget or ignore that simple fact.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Corax.7692" said:

> > > Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

> > >

> > > The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

> > >

> > > I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

> >

> > The thing is, one of the signature things of GW2 is that it does not (nor shall it ever) have a sub.

>

> Which is nice for some but at the same time, if you buy 1 item a month, you pay as much as a sub on average. Now I agree that GW2 will never have a sub, but I do wonder why people are so excited about that, because in the end people spend more on this game than if it was a sub game, except of course if you don't spend any real cash and are basically mooching off the whales. Cause in the end the fact that someone doesn't have to pay a sub is because someone else is dropping real money in the gem store. Otherwise that wouldn't be possible. So really, people are just playing sub-free because others spend more than their share in the gem store and that's why the prices are higher than a lot of people might like, because that's how they make enough profit to cover the costs for the rest.

>

> I suppose some people would like to have it both ways and not have a sub and get stuff cheaply, but that's not how it works. Someone has to pay for this game to keep it going and the people who complain about whales and the prices at the same time, seem to forget or ignore that simple fact.

 

Someone has to pay for the game to keep it going.. 100% correct.

 

I can't speak for anyone but myself, and I know full well that I spent far more in the store then I would have on a sub as well, but the lack of a sub makes it super handy to take a break when I feel burn out or frustrated, and coming back when I please without needing to worry about paying to return.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Corax.7692" said:

> > > > Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

> > > >

> > > > The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

> > > >

> > > > I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

> > >

> > > The thing is, one of the signature things of GW2 is that it does not (nor shall it ever) have a sub.

> >

> > Which is nice for some but at the same time, if you buy 1 item a month, you pay as much as a sub on average. Now I agree that GW2 will never have a sub, but I do wonder why people are so excited about that, because in the end people spend more on this game than if it was a sub game, except of course if you don't spend any real cash and are basically mooching off the whales. Cause in the end the fact that someone doesn't have to pay a sub is because someone else is dropping real money in the gem store. Otherwise that wouldn't be possible. So really, people are just playing sub-free because others spend more than their share in the gem store and that's why the prices are higher than a lot of people might like, because that's how they make enough profit to cover the costs for the rest.

> >

> > I suppose some people would like to have it both ways and not have a sub and get stuff cheaply, but that's not how it works. Someone has to pay for this game to keep it going and the people who complain about whales and the prices at the same time, seem to forget or ignore that simple fact.

>

> Someone has to pay for the game to keep it going.. 100% correct.

>

> I can't speak for anyone but myself, and I know full well that I spent far more in the store then I would have on a sub as well, but the lack of a sub makes it super handy to take a break when I feel burn out or frustrated, and coming back when I please without needing to worry about paying to return.

 

Well it works out for me. I only play from time to time because the game doesn't hold me generally for more than a month or two-three. So when I play I easily drop some money on it and then I'm gone again for a long time. Although I will say that this time around I enjoy the game more than before, so who knows.

 

At the same time, with the money I do spend, I could easily take a break in a subbed game of a year or more while still paying my sub and have the same result financially. It's an odd thing but I do recognize it...people often feel like they need to do something with a sub but when they spend 10 times as much in the cash shop they don't have this same feeling. It's counter-productive for your wallet but somehow the human psyche sees those things very differently.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Corax.7692" said:

> > > > > Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

> > > > >

> > > > > The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

> > > >

> > > > The thing is, one of the signature things of GW2 is that it does not (nor shall it ever) have a sub.

> > >

> > > Which is nice for some but at the same time, if you buy 1 item a month, you pay as much as a sub on average. Now I agree that GW2 will never have a sub, but I do wonder why people are so excited about that, because in the end people spend more on this game than if it was a sub game, except of course if you don't spend any real cash and are basically mooching off the whales. Cause in the end the fact that someone doesn't have to pay a sub is because someone else is dropping real money in the gem store. Otherwise that wouldn't be possible. So really, people are just playing sub-free because others spend more than their share in the gem store and that's why the prices are higher than a lot of people might like, because that's how they make enough profit to cover the costs for the rest.

> > >

> > > I suppose some people would like to have it both ways and not have a sub and get stuff cheaply, but that's not how it works. Someone has to pay for this game to keep it going and the people who complain about whales and the prices at the same time, seem to forget or ignore that simple fact.

> >

> > Someone has to pay for the game to keep it going.. 100% correct.

> >

> > I can't speak for anyone but myself, and I know full well that I spent far more in the store then I would have on a sub as well, but the lack of a sub makes it super handy to take a break when I feel burn out or frustrated, and coming back when I please without needing to worry about paying to return.

>

> Well it works out for me. I only play from time to time because the game doesn't hold me generally for more than a month or two-three. So when I play I easily drop some money on it and then I'm gone again for a long time. Although I will say that this time around I enjoy the game more than before, so who knows.

>

> At the same time, with the money I do spend, I could easily take a break in a subbed game of a year or more while still paying my sub and have the same result financially. It's an odd thing but I do recognize it...people often feel like they need to do something with a sub but when they spend 10 times as much in the cash shop they don't have this same feeling. It's counter-productive for your wallet but somehow the human psyche sees those things very differently.

>

 

Keep in mind tho, that unlike a Sub game, you get something for your money spent above and beyond a great game to play.

[Fremtid.3528]

> @"Evolution.1758" said:

> Grinding gold to trade for Gems isn't that hard if there's something I really want.

 

Those gems you buy for gold tho would cease to exist if someone wasn't buying gold for gems though you do get that, right?

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Fremtid.3528" said:

> > @"Evolution.1758" said:

> > Grinding gold to trade for Gems isn't that hard if there's something I really want.

>

> Those gems you buy for gold tho would cease to exist if someone wasn't buying gold for gems though you do get that, right?

 

Well here is how I see that.

 

Just using some basic numbers here, nothing to big, and don't get too hung up on all this.

 

But, 100 gold currently buys 364 gems, or $4.55 worth of gems.

 

Now, I have heard, that making 10 gold an hour is really good, but lets just up that to 20 gold an hour. That means, that for a solid grinder, it would take 5 hours to make 100 gold. Or put another way, they are grinding their life and game time away to make 1 dollar an hour .

 

YMMV.

[Fremtid.3528]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Fremtid.3528" said:

> > > @"Evolution.1758" said:

> > > Grinding gold to trade for Gems isn't that hard if there's something I really want.

> >

> > Those gems you buy for gold tho would cease to exist if someone wasn't buying gold for gems though you do get that, right?

>

> Well here is how I see that.

>

> Just using some basic numbers here, nothing to big, and don't get too hung up on all this.

>

> But, 100 gold currently buys 364 gems, or $4.55 worth of gems.

>

> Now, I have heard, that making 10 gold an hour is really good, but lets just up that to 20 gold an hour. That means, that for a solid grinder, it would take 5 hours to make 100 gold. Or put another way, they are grinding their life and game time away to make 1 dollar an hour .

>

> YMMV.

 

Which is exactly why I don't spend my life in this game grinding for gold, if there's something in this game that costs over a certain amount and I don't have the gold I either convert or I do without.

[Rysdude.3824]

Not sure that I can be called a whale, but Ive spent what some people make in a month since I started playing a year or so ago. I do it because I don’t have the time, between work and family, to grind out gold and I consider it worthwhile. It allows me time to enjoy more what I do IG than something that would feel like a chore. Plus, it still supports the game. I just wish Anet would implement some sorta reward track similiar to the achievement point system or title besides the boring “I’m Rich, You know” which isn’t even related to supporting the game.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > @"Corax.7692" said:

> > > > > > Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

> > > > >

> > > > > The thing is, one of the signature things of GW2 is that it does not (nor shall it ever) have a sub.

> > > >

> > > > Which is nice for some but at the same time, if you buy 1 item a month, you pay as much as a sub on average. Now I agree that GW2 will never have a sub, but I do wonder why people are so excited about that, because in the end people spend more on this game than if it was a sub game, except of course if you don't spend any real cash and are basically mooching off the whales. Cause in the end the fact that someone doesn't have to pay a sub is because someone else is dropping real money in the gem store. Otherwise that wouldn't be possible. So really, people are just playing sub-free because others spend more than their share in the gem store and that's why the prices are higher than a lot of people might like, because that's how they make enough profit to cover the costs for the rest.

> > > >

> > > > I suppose some people would like to have it both ways and not have a sub and get stuff cheaply, but that's not how it works. Someone has to pay for this game to keep it going and the people who complain about whales and the prices at the same time, seem to forget or ignore that simple fact.

> > >

> > > Someone has to pay for the game to keep it going.. 100% correct.

> > >

> > > I can't speak for anyone but myself, and I know full well that I spent far more in the store then I would have on a sub as well, but the lack of a sub makes it super handy to take a break when I feel burn out or frustrated, and coming back when I please without needing to worry about paying to return.

> >

> > Well it works out for me. I only play from time to time because the game doesn't hold me generally for more than a month or two-three. So when I play I easily drop some money on it and then I'm gone again for a long time. Although I will say that this time around I enjoy the game more than before, so who knows.

> >

> > At the same time, with the money I do spend, I could easily take a break in a subbed game of a year or more while still paying my sub and have the same result financially. It's an odd thing but I do recognize it...people often feel like they need to do something with a sub but when they spend 10 times as much in the cash shop they don't have this same feeling. It's counter-productive for your wallet but somehow the human psyche sees those things very differently.

> >

>

> Keep in mind tho, that unlike a Sub game, you get something for your money spent above and beyond a great game to play.

 

Well, I don't really agree with that. You see, before player outrage led to F2P and cash shops, you got everything in game as part of your sub. So any cosmetics and QoL stuff was in the game. You didn't have to pay for that. That's what people need to keep in mind.

 

Now you buy one outfit and it costs more than a month's sub. So you're essentially getting the same but pay more for it. The only difference is that now you can get less and not pay for it because other players are spending lots of cash. That's really all that's changed. But traditionally you bought the game and the expansions and paid a sub and all there was in the game was at your finger tips. Currently they took a lot of QoL and Cosmetic stuff out of the game and charge you for it, but at a higher rate.

 

In other words, the above and beyond used to be in the game already.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > @"Corax.7692" said:

> > > > > > > Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The thing is, one of the signature things of GW2 is that it does not (nor shall it ever) have a sub.

> > > > >

> > > > > Which is nice for some but at the same time, if you buy 1 item a month, you pay as much as a sub on average. Now I agree that GW2 will never have a sub, but I do wonder why people are so excited about that, because in the end people spend more on this game than if it was a sub game, except of course if you don't spend any real cash and are basically mooching off the whales. Cause in the end the fact that someone doesn't have to pay a sub is because someone else is dropping real money in the gem store. Otherwise that wouldn't be possible. So really, people are just playing sub-free because others spend more than their share in the gem store and that's why the prices are higher than a lot of people might like, because that's how they make enough profit to cover the costs for the rest.

> > > > >

> > > > > I suppose some people would like to have it both ways and not have a sub and get stuff cheaply, but that's not how it works. Someone has to pay for this game to keep it going and the people who complain about whales and the prices at the same time, seem to forget or ignore that simple fact.

> > > >

> > > > Someone has to pay for the game to keep it going.. 100% correct.

> > > >

> > > > I can't speak for anyone but myself, and I know full well that I spent far more in the store then I would have on a sub as well, but the lack of a sub makes it super handy to take a break when I feel burn out or frustrated, and coming back when I please without needing to worry about paying to return.

> > >

> > > Well it works out for me. I only play from time to time because the game doesn't hold me generally for more than a month or two-three. So when I play I easily drop some money on it and then I'm gone again for a long time. Although I will say that this time around I enjoy the game more than before, so who knows.

> > >

> > > At the same time, with the money I do spend, I could easily take a break in a subbed game of a year or more while still paying my sub and have the same result financially. It's an odd thing but I do recognize it...people often feel like they need to do something with a sub but when they spend 10 times as much in the cash shop they don't have this same feeling. It's counter-productive for your wallet but somehow the human psyche sees those things very differently.

> > >

> >

> > Keep in mind tho, that unlike a Sub game, you get something for your money spent above and beyond a great game to play.

>

> Well, I don't really agree with that. You see, before player outrage led to F2P and cash shops, you got everything in game as part of your sub. So any cosmetics and QoL stuff was in the game. You didn't have to pay for that. That's what people need to keep in mind.

>

> Now you buy one outfit and it costs more than a month's sub. So you're essentially getting the same but pay more for it. The only difference is that now you can get less and not pay for it because other players are spending lots of cash. That's really all that's changed. But traditionally you bought the game and the expansions and paid a sub and all there was in the game was at your finger tips. Currently they took a lot of QoL and Cosmetic stuff out of the game and charge you for it, but at a higher rate.

>

> In other words, the above and beyond used to be in the game already.

 

You know, I see your point, but, I am going to disagree to an extent. See, originally, the cosmetic of a weapon denoted it's stature, Ergo, what you looked like showed how good your gear was. With the rise of more cosmetic options, is almost made sense to sell cosmetic.

 

For many in the older games, outfit like cosmetics were sought after often for several reasons. In some cases it was desired for their leveling toons/bank/alts, so they did not need to run around without pants on (or similar situation) or in some cases simply because they did not want to look like everyone else but still wanted the BiS gear, and in some cases, they dimply did not like the look of an item in and of itself.

 

These kinds of features often were never part of the game play however, as far as I remember or know, the rise of cosmetics in a game came with the rise of the Store. So the two are at least somewhat intertwined.

 

So in that front, it does feel (at least to me) that the whole cosmetic aspect of an MMO was never really a part of the game play, and had always been it's own situation. While in some games like GW2, grinding for cosmetics is part of the game, GW2 feels very unique in that venture to a player like me, so the extra cosmetics I can get in a game feels like a bonus.

 

But then again, I came here from a game that players would grind for months for a minor incremental stat advantage or because a item had a unique property, in that game stats and abilities were king, and cosmetics were.. well.. old and dated ;)

 

Just saying.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Corax.7692" said:

> > > > > > > > Well, the new mount skins came out and I wrote them off as a frivolous vanity purchase, but when I commented that I preferred a subscription model several guild members stood up strongly for the current model, so to support the game I am playing I went and bought the mount skins. :-P

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The sad thing is I found only a couple of them to my taste. There are some skins from the earlier 30 that I like, but they aren't even on the gem store right now. Now **that**, I don't understand. If they want to make money selling skins, why are the skins unavailable? Finally, the RNG for mount skins is just crass taking advantage of people. At least you have the option of paying much more up front for what you want.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think I would still prefer a model where I pay a modest subscription and everything in game is purchased only with in-game currency. There **are** functional things you can only buy with gems (storage expansion, permanent harvesting tools, etc.)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The thing is, one of the signature things of GW2 is that it does not (nor shall it ever) have a sub.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Which is nice for some but at the same time, if you buy 1 item a month, you pay as much as a sub on average. Now I agree that GW2 will never have a sub, but I do wonder why people are so excited about that, because in the end people spend more on this game than if it was a sub game, except of course if you don't spend any real cash and are basically mooching off the whales. Cause in the end the fact that someone doesn't have to pay a sub is because someone else is dropping real money in the gem store. Otherwise that wouldn't be possible. So really, people are just playing sub-free because others spend more than their share in the gem store and that's why the prices are higher than a lot of people might like, because that's how they make enough profit to cover the costs for the rest.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I suppose some people would like to have it both ways and not have a sub and get stuff cheaply, but that's not how it works. Someone has to pay for this game to keep it going and the people who complain about whales and the prices at the same time, seem to forget or ignore that simple fact.

> > > > >

> > > > > Someone has to pay for the game to keep it going.. 100% correct.

> > > > >

> > > > > I can't speak for anyone but myself, and I know full well that I spent far more in the store then I would have on a sub as well, but the lack of a sub makes it super handy to take a break when I feel burn out or frustrated, and coming back when I please without needing to worry about paying to return.

> > > >

> > > > Well it works out for me. I only play from time to time because the game doesn't hold me generally for more than a month or two-three. So when I play I easily drop some money on it and then I'm gone again for a long time. Although I will say that this time around I enjoy the game more than before, so who knows.

> > > >

> > > > At the same time, with the money I do spend, I could easily take a break in a subbed game of a year or more while still paying my sub and have the same result financially. It's an odd thing but I do recognize it...people often feel like they need to do something with a sub but when they spend 10 times as much in the cash shop they don't have this same feeling. It's counter-productive for your wallet but somehow the human psyche sees those things very differently.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Keep in mind tho, that unlike a Sub game, you get something for your money spent above and beyond a great game to play.

> >

> > Well, I don't really agree with that. You see, before player outrage led to F2P and cash shops, you got everything in game as part of your sub. So any cosmetics and QoL stuff was in the game. You didn't have to pay for that. That's what people need to keep in mind.

> >

> > Now you buy one outfit and it costs more than a month's sub. So you're essentially getting the same but pay more for it. The only difference is that now you can get less and not pay for it because other players are spending lots of cash. That's really all that's changed. But traditionally you bought the game and the expansions and paid a sub and all there was in the game was at your finger tips. Currently they took a lot of QoL and Cosmetic stuff out of the game and charge you for it, but at a higher rate.

> >

> > In other words, the above and beyond used to be in the game already.

>

> You know, I see your point, but, I am going to disagree to an extent. See, originally, the cosmetic of a weapon denoted it's stature, Ergo, what you looked like showed how good your gear was. With the rise of more cosmetic options, is almost made sense to sell cosmetic.

>

> For many in the older games, outfit like cosmetics were sought after often for several reasons. In some cases it was desired for their leveling toons/bank/alts, so they did not need to run around without pants on (or similar situation) or in some cases simply because they did not want to look like everyone else but still wanted the BiS gear, and in some cases, they dimply did not like the look of an item in and of itself.

>

> These kinds of features often were never part of the game play however, as far as I remember or know, the rise of cosmetics in a game came with the rise of the Store. So the two are at least somewhat intertwined.

>

> So in that front, it does feel (at least to me) that the whole cosmetic aspect of an MMO was never really a part of the game play, and had always been it's own situation. While in some games like GW2, grinding for cosmetics is part of the game, GW2 feels very unique in that venture to a player like me, so the extra cosmetics I can get in a game feels like a bonus.

>

> But then again, I came here from a game that players would grind for months for a minor incremental stat advantage or because a item had a unique property, in that game stats and abilities were king, and cosmetics were.. well.. old and dated ;)

>

> Just saying.

 

You make a fair point. They probably increased the cosmetics for that purpose. Sadly some games nowadays you get the vast majority of cosmetics from the cash shop. I guess I just feel they went too far in that. In GW2 it's not as bad I admit.