On elitism and stuff...

[reaVer.4056]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Edelweiss.4261" said:

> > I also want an alternative pathway to legendary gear. I don't need any legendary skin, but locking a quality of life feature behind a specific game mode caters to the elitist mindset that raiders are more important than OW PVE. Luckily, PvP and WvW players have been granted alternative pathways. I've seen people say something to the effect of "all 3 game modes have pathways", but this ignores that OW PVE and raiding are as different as PvP and WvW. If Anet gave a pathway to PvP but not WvW, I'm fairly certain WvW players would be miffed. You'd then see people that said "sPvP is the endgame of WvW" while implying that pvpers are better than wvwers. This mindset is ridiculous.

> Honestly, locking legendary armor behind raids for ~reasons~ is probably the single biggest cause of this whole mess. If it was crafted the same way the weapons are crafted, a lot of people would have been content to ignore raids entirely and leave the people who actually wanted to raid alone to do their thing.

 

This is again, harder challenge -> better reward thing. If you didn't need to do raids for legendary gear there would be no point in doing raids to begin with for anyone.

[Radon.6710]

> @"Edelweiss.4261" said:

> I find it exceedingly rare to find casuals that want everything to be easy. I've seen a handful, myself. This feels more like a misrepresentation of more commonly held views, but maybe I'm just lucky enough to avoid these people.

>

> For my part, I don't really want easy raids. Rather, raids are just completely uninteresting to me. The elitism that bothers me occurs when a lot of raiders talk about Open World PVE. They talk about it as if you can simply autoattack and mow through everything. If you're in a giant zerg, maybe you can get by, but, normally, this will either get you killed or take minutes to deal with trash mobs. Raiding doesn't necessarily make you better than other members of the game and, certainly, doesn't make you any more important.

>

> I also want an alternative pathway to legendary gear. I don't need any legendary skin, but locking a quality of life feature behind a specific game mode caters to the elitist mindset that raiders are more important than OW PVE. Luckily, PvP and WvW players have been granted alternative pathways. I've seen people say something to the effect of "all 3 game modes have pathways", but this ignores that OW PVE and raiding are as different as PvP and WvW. If Anet gave a pathway to PvP but not WvW, I'm fairly certain WvW players would be miffed. You'd then see people that said "sPvP is the endgame of WvW" while implying that pvpers are better than wvwers. This mindset is ridiculous.

>

> Additionally, it is somewhat annoying that OW PVE is balanced based on raids, but the balance team is small, so whatever.

 

You find it exceedingly rare yet in your second half of the post, you do exactly that.

WvW legendary gear is hidden behind a lot of levels and grinding -> high end WvW -> legendary rewards

PvP legendary gear is hidden behind a lot of grinding -> high end PvP -> legendary rewards

PvE legendary gear is hidden behind Raids, which are -> high end PvE -> legendary rewards

 

Lets ease up on requirements for legendary armors? NO because everyone would have it without putting in ANY effort. And yes with raid level preparation you can basicly one shot most of the open world mobs.

Content casual people are complaining about isn't hard, you are just making it hard yourself by not adapting to it.

[Rasta.2371]

> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > **And that has to stop. We are playing online TOGETHER. Not zealously logging other people's numbers in a computer game.**

> > >

> > > Excelsior

> > >

> > >

> > Maybe it's time to start intentionally grief these people. Get your KP maxed out, get gudd, get titles etc. then join the 'over 9000' team and screw with boss mechanics. Drop Slothasor poison on their face. Volunteer for Mursaat Overseer Protect and don't use it. etc etc. Or if you are a guild group and one of these steel-rod-up-the-yahoo scrubs is a ringer, you can always kick when boss is at 2% hp.

> >

> >

> > Look it's dirty tactics, but are you guys going to put up with the disgusting snob behavior?

>

> You can't even kick if someone is infight.

> What you are saying is toxic as kitten. You are going out of your way to actively scam people.

 

Trolling isn't scamming, and it's only toxic if you get a reaction.

[reaVer.4056]

> @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > > **And that has to stop. We are playing online TOGETHER. Not zealously logging other people's numbers in a computer game.**

> > > >

> > > > Excelsior

> > > >

> > > >

> > > Maybe it's time to start intentionally grief these people. Get your KP maxed out, get gudd, get titles etc. then join the 'over 9000' team and screw with boss mechanics. Drop Slothasor poison on their face. Volunteer for Mursaat Overseer Protect and don't use it. etc etc. Or if you are a guild group and one of these steel-rod-up-the-yahoo scrubs is a ringer, you can always kick when boss is at 2% hp.

> > >

> > >

> > > Look it's dirty tactics, but are you guys going to put up with the disgusting snob behavior?

> >

> > You can't even kick if someone is infight.

> > What you are saying is toxic as kitten. You are going out of your way to actively scam people.

>

> Trolling isn't scamming, and it's only toxic if you get a reaction.

 

Eeeeeeh... if you purposely grief people you are toxic. Better yet you are the cause of toxicity and the GMs should root you out before anyone else.

[Radon.6710]

@"Rasta.2371"

Yea deliberately sabotaging boss kill isn't toxic at all... i feel like this shouldn't have to be exlained. Wasting someones time and kittening up everything that everyone is trying to do is the highest level of BM and you should be ashamed of your moral teachings. This isn't even about game, you as a human being are now being just trash person.

[Rasta.2371]

> @"Sweal.4659" said:

> @"Rasta.2371"

> Yea deliberately sabotaging boss kill isn't toxic at all... i feel like this shouldn't have to be exlained. Wasting someones time and kittening up everything that everyone is trying to do is the highest level of BM and you should be ashamed of your moral teachings. This isn't even about game, you as a human being are now being just trash person.

 

That's subjective, in my view online trolling is always justified. Look at this discussion now, I share a completely new perspective, we are having a classy discussion around the fire over afternoon tea like civilized Englishmen from the Victorian era, and you start to throw around the 'you are trash' comments.

 

[reaVer.4056]

> @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > @"Sweal.4659" said:

> > @"Rasta.2371"

> > Yea deliberately sabotaging boss kill isn't toxic at all... i feel like this shouldn't have to be exlained. Wasting someones time and kittening up everything that everyone is trying to do is the highest level of BM and you should be ashamed of your moral teachings. This isn't even about game, you as a human being are now being just trash person.

>

> That's subjective, in my view online trolling is always justified. Look at this discussion now, I share a completely new perspective, we are having a classy discussion around the fire over afternoon tea like civilized Englishmen from the Victorian era, and you start to throw around the 'you are trash' comments.

>

 

Well your view is irrelevant. You're infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game, that is a breach of CoC #1.

[Rasta.2371]

> @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > @"Sweal.4659" said:

> > > @"Rasta.2371"

> > > Yea deliberately sabotaging boss kill isn't toxic at all... i feel like this shouldn't have to be exlained. Wasting someones time and kittening up everything that everyone is trying to do is the highest level of BM and you should be ashamed of your moral teachings. This isn't even about game, you as a human being are now being just trash person.

> >

> > That's subjective, in my view online trolling is always justified. Look at this discussion now, I share a completely new perspective, we are having a classy discussion around the fire over afternoon tea like civilized Englishmen from the Victorian era, and you start to throw around the 'you are trash' comments.

> >

>

> Well your view is irrelevant. You're infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game, that is a breach of CoC #1.

 

Where did my opinions become actions? No view is irrelevent because everyone is allowed to have a point of view, it is by definition relevent to the individual.

[reaVer.4056]

> @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > > @"Sweal.4659" said:

> > > > @"Rasta.2371"

> > > > Yea deliberately sabotaging boss kill isn't toxic at all... i feel like this shouldn't have to be exlained. Wasting someones time and kittening up everything that everyone is trying to do is the highest level of BM and you should be ashamed of your moral teachings. This isn't even about game, you as a human being are now being just trash person.

> > >

> > > That's subjective, in my view online trolling is always justified. Look at this discussion now, I share a completely new perspective, we are having a classy discussion around the fire over afternoon tea like civilized Englishmen from the Victorian era, and you start to throw around the 'you are trash' comments.

> > >

> >

> > Well your view is irrelevant. You're infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game, that is a breach of CoC #1.

>

> Where did my opinions become actions? No view is irrelevent because everyone is allowed to have a point of view, it is by definition relevent to the individual.

 

You did a call to action not even half a page ago. Calling upon the infringement of other people's right to enjoy the game is infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game.

[Rasta.2371]

> @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > > > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > > > @"Sweal.4659" said:

> > > > > @"Rasta.2371"

> > > > > Yea deliberately sabotaging boss kill isn't toxic at all... i feel like this shouldn't have to be exlained. Wasting someones time and kittening up everything that everyone is trying to do is the highest level of BM and you should be ashamed of your moral teachings. This isn't even about game, you as a human being are now being just trash person.

> > > >

> > > > That's subjective, in my view online trolling is always justified. Look at this discussion now, I share a completely new perspective, we are having a classy discussion around the fire over afternoon tea like civilized Englishmen from the Victorian era, and you start to throw around the 'you are trash' comments.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Well your view is irrelevant. You're infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game, that is a breach of CoC #1.

> >

> > Where did my opinions become actions? No view is irrelevent because everyone is allowed to have a point of view, it is by definition relevent to the individual.

>

> You did a call to action not even half a page ago. Calling upon the infringement of other people's right to enjoy the game is infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game.

 

So if I reword that comment that it's just an unpopular opinion that's ok with you?

[Radon.6710]

> @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > > @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > > > > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > > > > @"Sweal.4659" said:

> > > > > > @"Rasta.2371"

> > > > > > Yea deliberately sabotaging boss kill isn't toxic at all... i feel like this shouldn't have to be exlained. Wasting someones time and kittening up everything that everyone is trying to do is the highest level of BM and you should be ashamed of your moral teachings. This isn't even about game, you as a human being are now being just trash person.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's subjective, in my view online trolling is always justified. Look at this discussion now, I share a completely new perspective, we are having a classy discussion around the fire over afternoon tea like civilized Englishmen from the Victorian era, and you start to throw around the 'you are trash' comments.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Well your view is irrelevant. You're infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game, that is a breach of CoC #1.

> > >

> > > Where did my opinions become actions? No view is irrelevent because everyone is allowed to have a point of view, it is by definition relevent to the individual.

> >

> > You did a call to action not even half a page ago. Calling upon the infringement of other people's right to enjoy the game is infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game.

>

> So if I reword that comment that it's just an unpopular opinion that's ok with you?

 

This is not about rewording or unpopular opinion dude, and "not taking any action" is also just pure kitten.

Having these opinions and openly encouraging them is just wrong. It would be like that you are all in for rapes or slavery. Doesn't matter you didn't do either, its just mentally sick to encourage that.

[Rasta.2371]

> @"Sweal.4659" said:

> > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > > > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > > > @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > > > > > @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > > > > > > @"Sweal.4659" said:

> > > > > > > @"Rasta.2371"

> > > > > > > Yea deliberately sabotaging boss kill isn't toxic at all... i feel like this shouldn't have to be exlained. Wasting someones time and kittening up everything that everyone is trying to do is the highest level of BM and you should be ashamed of your moral teachings. This isn't even about game, you as a human being are now being just trash person.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's subjective, in my view online trolling is always justified. Look at this discussion now, I share a completely new perspective, we are having a classy discussion around the fire over afternoon tea like civilized Englishmen from the Victorian era, and you start to throw around the 'you are trash' comments.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Well your view is irrelevant. You're infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game, that is a breach of CoC #1.

> > > >

> > > > Where did my opinions become actions? No view is irrelevent because everyone is allowed to have a point of view, it is by definition relevent to the individual.

> > >

> > > You did a call to action not even half a page ago. Calling upon the infringement of other people's right to enjoy the game is infringing on other people's rights to enjoy the game.

> >

> > So if I reword that comment that it's just an unpopular opinion that's ok with you?

>

> This is not about rewording or unpopular opinion dude, and "not taking any action" is also just pure kitten.

> Having these opinions and openly encouraging them is just wrong. It would be like that you are all in for rapes or slavery. Doesn't matter you didn't do either, its just mentally sick to encourage that.

 

So let's draw the line between encouraging and holding a view before we discuss the morality factor. I admit i crossed the line into a 'call to action', so let's just say i will sit here and not encourage others to take part in the great art of lulz, and instead just sit back and enjoy it as a spectator sport.

[Raizel.8175]

I think that a lot of elitism-symptoms come down to the game being utterly un- if not even asocial. I already explained [here](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/625178/#Comment_625178 "here") (at the end) and [here](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/629176/#Comment_629176 "here") why I think that the game is unsocial in an unhealthy way (the second comment is more in-depth). I've been playing MMORPGs for approx. 15 years now and GW2 is easily the most unsocial MMORPG I've ever played. It's quite a difference if you play a multiplayer-focussed game in which you have to communicate decently with other people or a more single-player-focussed game like GW2 where communication is rather rudimentary. I mean, honestly, it's a huge difference if the endgame is designed in a way that forces you to use TS/Dirscord. Not having to really talk to other people allows you to be more of an asshole, especially if you somewhat know the other people you're dealing with.

 

Of course there are several other unfortunate design-decisions ArenaNet made. It's not really wise to design your base-game (meaning open-world- and story-content) in a way that it doesn't teach you basic gameplay. I also think that GW2 focusses too much on the single-player-experience rather than a real multiplayer-experience. That even includes raids due to lazy mechanics like the aggro- and fixated-systems which enforce strict gameplay, stricter gameplay than even traditional trinity-based MMORPGs offer. That leads to inconsistent and incoherent game-design. In any other MMORPG that is designed decently with the multiplayer-experience in mind, I'd never really have accessibility-problems like in GW2 as long as I can carry my weight. The whole exaggerated LI/KP-requirements are very special to GW2.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> The discussion about elitism in this game originated with dungeon speedfarming scene. Everything you will ever imagine as an argument, no matter which side you are, has already been spoken multiple times.

>

> Now answer me this - with the introduction of raids and fractal CMs, which scenario is being realised - anet fighting toxicity and elitism or anet actively promoting this kind of behaviour and segregating the playerbase?

 

Introduction -> half of the games' age ago. We're way beyond that.

 

If challenging content always leads to some amount of elitism, does this mean ArenaNet is responsible? And if so, is the ideal situation to have no challenging content that may cause elitism whatsoever?

 

By putting any published work into the world, are you actively promoting or preventing or is it a mere effect, or at most a mere intention to change peoples minds or maybe just make a memorable albeit subjective experience?

 

Does this subjectivity mean that anything that isnt liked or anything that people only do with their selective group mean it shouldnt exist?

 

But most of all, is it possible or even ethical to force people to play with people they dont know or want to play with?

 

You said it yourself really, even with dungeons you had elitism, and that really didnt change. You cannot design an MMO where people always play with anyone. The notion that ArenaNet is in any way responsible for human behavior or should go to the maximum of efforts to avoid it isnt thinking realistically.

 

[Rasta.2371]

 

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

 

>

> But most of all, is it possible or even ethical to force people to play with people they dont know or want to play with?

>

> You said it yourself really, even with dungeons you had elitism, and that really didnt change. You cannot design an MMO where people always play with anyone. The notion that ArenaNet is in any way responsible for human behavior or should go to the maximum of efforts to avoid it isnt thinking realistically.

 

This is why I think it's okay to fake it till you make it with the current system. Link your KP, if you didn't get lucky to get a title like LNHB etc then buy it. If only for pugs. Crash and burn enough times and you will learn the encounter. For Fractal it's easy to get into a t4 daily etc and understand all the fights, how else do you propose to bridge the gap between fractal t4 and then 99/100cm and then Raids?

 

 

 

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"reaVer.4056" said:

> This is again, harder challenge -> better reward thing. If you didn't need to do raids for legendary gear there would be no point in doing raids to begin with for anyone.

And here I thought people wanted raids for the challenge itself... or at least that's what they _said_ when begging Anet for them.

 

> @"Sweal.4659" said:

> Lets ease up on requirements for legendary armors? NO because everyone would have it without putting in ANY effort.

If you think crafting a legendary doesn't require any effort, then you've clearly never actually done it (also there's literally no reason legendary armor shouldn't be acquired the same way as legendary weapons, like every other tier of gear is).

 

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> You said it yourself really, even with dungeons you had elitism, and that really didnt change.

The difference is that you _have_ to interact with those people now, whereas dungeons were forgiving enough that you could ignore them entirely and just grab some random people and still complete the dungeon (the meta was just about maximizing the ratio of reward for time spent by doing it faster).

[Raizel.8175]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> If challenging content always leads to some amount of elitism, does this mean ArenaNet is responsible?

 

Yes, ArenaNet is responsible. They designed the game in a way in which it doesn't really support sophisticated instanced PvE well. You could even argue if our instanced PvE is even that sophisticated to begin with, using lazy design-choices like aggro based on toughness.

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > The discussion about elitism in this game originated with dungeon speedfarming scene. Everything you will ever imagine as an argument, no matter which side you are, has already been spoken multiple times.

> >

> > Now answer me this - with the introduction of raids and fractal CMs, which scenario is being realised - anet fighting toxicity and elitism or anet actively promoting this kind of behaviour and segregating the playerbase?

>

> Introduction -> half of the games' age ago. We're way beyond that.

>

> If challenging content always leads to some amount of elitism, does this mean ArenaNet is responsible? And if so, is the ideal situation to have no challenging content that may cause elitism whatsoever?

>

> By putting any published work into the world, are you actively promoting or preventing or is it a mere effect, or at most a mere intention to change peoples minds or maybe just make a memorable albeit subjective experience?

>

> Does this subjectivity mean that anything that isnt liked or anything that people only do with their selective group mean it shouldnt exist?

>

> But most of all, is it possible or even ethical to force people to play with people they dont know or want to play with?

>

> You said it yourself really, even with dungeons you had elitism, and that really didnt change. You cannot design an MMO where people always play with anyone. The notion that ArenaNet is in any way responsible for human behavior or should go to the maximum of efforts to avoid it isnt thinking realistically.

>

 

Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism.

[CamoBadger.8531]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism.

 

You mean a video game?

 

You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them.

Unfortunately this means that some people turn into dicks just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play.

[Rasta.2371]

> @"CamoBadger.8531" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism.

>

> You mean a video game?

>

> You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them.

> Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play.

 

The biggest irony is that these jerks can't handle a person who is an even greater jerk and screws around their system, and then they claim that I am the one ruining their experience when they ruin everyone else's.

[Radon.6710]

> @"Rasta.2371" said:

> > @"CamoBadger.8531" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism.

> >

> > You mean a video game?

> >

> > You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them.

> > Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play.

>

> The biggest irony is that these jerks can't handle a person who is an even greater jerk and screws around their system, and then they claim that I am the one ruining their experience when they ruin everyone else's.

 

I enjoy playing with elitists who require meta gears. They just don't enjoy your presence so they kick you. And now you are all salty because of it.

[Ashabhi.1365]

> @"reaVer.4056" said:

> > @"Ashabhi.1365" said:

> > My two coppers' worth:

> >

> > I am a casual player. There is no way in hell I would try to join a seasoned party. It's not because they're "elitists" but because as a casual player, I know deep in my gaming heart that I don't have the skills necessary to be a part of their team. I wouldn't do that to them. On the other hand, I am not a complete dolt either. I am perfectly capable of surviving and spanking enemies. I don't deserve to be treated like I am dirt just to allow someone to stroke their own ego.

> >

> > The content shouldn't change. There should be things that I am unable to do with my current skill level. I don't want ANet to "dumb down" the dungeons and fractals so that I can compete with the ultra kitten min/maxxer who has been running hardcore mode since creation. The issue that I do have however is that Mr. kitten Ultra Min/Maxxer needs to hold his tongue. There is no reason for him (or her) to treat me like spam just because I don't spend 24 hours a day thinking about how I can eke out one more point of DPS. Be elite. Be great at what you do. You don't have to include me for me to be satisfied with the game. Just don't be a kitten about it.

> >

> > EDIT: Awww how cute!... My post had kittens!

>

> Except elitists don't treat you like spam if you're honest with them. They will ask you to leave from their groups and will try to tolerate you in map events, but they will not start off lobbing insults in your direction if they know where you're coming from. What sets players off is when the Aurc Basic map meta is about to begin and someone starts requesting help on Balthazar HP. And the problem isn't even that the person wants to do Balthazar HP, but that the map is full; people can't join and are at risk of sitting out the event while this person is taking a slot for something trivial. It's the apparent disinterest in other player's situation that annoys the majority of players.

>

> And as @"Etheri.5406" states, these players join and lie to the players already present in the group; they end up wasting everyone's time and that is where the insults start flying. Furthermore insults only fly when they can be bothered to correct you, if they can't be bothered they will just kick you. And in case of special demands, not saying anything is the same as lying. When you understand this simple fact and are outright honest with the players in the groups, in the maps, etc. ahead of time, they will respond accordingly and you will find that they remain courteous with you throughout the exchange.

>

> You can even test this for yourself, if you start an LFG "I am new" for whatever content you decide to do. You wait a little, players join; you do as your told and viola you get your dailies done, you get good loot and you don't have to die in the process. Even if you die, you will find that these players are a lot more patient with you than they normally are. And all this is simply because you're honest with them.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Most high-end players will be more than happy to help, or at least ask you nicely if you wouldn't mind leaving the group because blahblahblah. I have the utmost respect for them. What the general player needs to understand is that there is a BIG difference between an Elite player and an Elitist.

 

The type of elitist kitten I was talking about is the one that disparages you in map chat or joins your group and realizes quickly that you're a group of beginners (without asking, I might add) and then abuses the group because it's not up to her/his expectations. I don't give a kitten what some egotistical uber player thinks. Courtesy will get a helluva lot more results than what we tend to hear from "those guys."

 

Elite players, on the other hand are some of the most helpful, knowledgeable, and accommodating people I have met. I have even had a couple who have stopped doing whatever it was they were doing specifically to come help me navigate a boss mechanic I didn't understand or work on tweaking my build a bit. If it weren't for some of these wonderful people, I would have no clue how attributes affect your skillbar, among other things that may be instinctual for someone else...

 

The type of low-skill-level player you describe unfortunately exists as well. There are those who have less than optimal builds and gear and they will lie in order to get into an elite (notice I didn't say "elitist") group and then cry to the forum when someone calls them out. I'd apologize on behalf of their bad behavior, but it's not in my nature to support people who misrepresent themselves.

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"CamoBadger.8531" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism.

>

> You mean a video game?

>

> You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them.

> Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play.

 

You can claim all day that "this is just people being people" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just some types of activities trigger conflicts easier than others.

[CamoBadger.8531]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"CamoBadger.8531" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism.

> >

> > You mean a video game?

> >

> > You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them.

> > Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play.

>

> You can claim all day that "this is just people being people" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just some types of activities trigger conflicts easier than others.

 

What kinds of activities are you talking about? Games that require teamwork to complete a goal always end with players doing this.

Competitive shooters; you didn't choose the right weapon/character so we lost, you suck, get out. You went through the wrong door, uninstall the game.

RPGs with the option for co-op; you're using _that_ gear? Get off my team. You missed a dodge? Get out. You didn't heal me half a second after I took damage? You suck.

MOBAs; you're playing this game with me? I hate you.

 

No matter what game or system is used, players turn into jerks as soon as they decide they're better than someone else.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

If elitist are ruining your day you can easily just not play with them. Sure, it may take you way longer to complete an easy task. But hey, you have the time to burn.