Rasta.2371 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"Sweal.4659" said: > > @"Rasta.2371" said: > > > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism. > > > > > > You mean a video game? > > > > > > You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them. > > > Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play. > > > > The biggest irony is that these jerks can't handle a person who is an even greater jerk and screws around their system, and then they claim that I am the one ruining their experience when they ruin everyone else's. > > I enjoy playing with elitists who require meta gears. They just don't enjoy your presence so they kick you. And now you are all salty because of it. So we draw the line, elitists vs elite players. Elite players determine the meta, do the number crunching and groundwork, and you elitists follow it like a pack of dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasta.2371 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"Ashabhi.1365" said: > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > @"Ashabhi.1365" said: > > > My two coppers' worth: > > > > > > I am a casual player. There is no way in hell I would try to join a seasoned party. It's not because they're "elitists" but because as a casual player, I know deep in my gaming heart that I don't have the skills necessary to be a part of their team. I wouldn't do that to them. On the other hand, I am not a complete dolt either. I am perfectly capable of surviving and spanking enemies. I don't deserve to be treated like I am dirt just to allow someone to stroke their own ego. > > > > > > The content shouldn't change. There should be things that I am unable to do with my current skill level. I don't want ANet to "dumb down" the dungeons and fractals so that I can compete with the ultra kitten min/maxxer who has been running hardcore mode since creation. The issue that I do have however is that Mr. kitten Ultra Min/Maxxer needs to hold his tongue. There is no reason for him (or her) to treat me like spam just because I don't spend 24 hours a day thinking about how I can eke out one more point of DPS. Be elite. Be great at what you do. You don't have to include me for me to be satisfied with the game. Just don't be a kitten about it. > > > > > > EDIT: Awww how cute!... My post had kittens! > > > > Except elitists don't treat you like spam if you're honest with them. They will ask you to leave from their groups and will try to tolerate you in map events, but they will not start off lobbing insults in your direction if they know where you're coming from. What sets players off is when the Aurc Basic map meta is about to begin and someone starts requesting help on Balthazar HP. And the problem isn't even that the person wants to do Balthazar HP, but that the map is full; people can't join and are at risk of sitting out the event while this person is taking a slot for something trivial. It's the apparent disinterest in other player's situation that annoys the majority of players. > > > > And as @"Etheri.5406" states, these players join and lie to the players already present in the group; they end up wasting everyone's time and that is where the insults start flying. Furthermore insults only fly when they can be bothered to correct you, if they can't be bothered they will just kick you. And in case of special demands, not saying anything is the same as lying. When you understand this simple fact and are outright honest with the players in the groups, in the maps, etc. ahead of time, they will respond accordingly and you will find that they remain courteous with you throughout the exchange. > > > > You can even test this for yourself, if you start an LFG "I am new" for whatever content you decide to do. You wait a little, players join; you do as your told and viola you get your dailies done, you get good loot and you don't have to die in the process. Even if you die, you will find that these players are a lot more patient with you than they normally are. And all this is simply because you're honest with them. > > I agree with you wholeheartedly. Most high-end players will be more than happy to help, or at least ask you nicely if you wouldn't mind leaving the group because blahblahblah. I have the utmost respect for them. What the general player needs to understand is that there is a BIG difference between an Elite player and an Elitist. > > The type of elitist kitten I was talking about is the one that disparages you in map chat or joins your group and realizes quickly that you're a group of beginners (without asking, I might add) and then abuses the group because it's not up to her/his expectations. I don't give a kitten what some egotistical uber player thinks. Courtesy will get a helluva lot more results than what we tend to hear from "those guys." > > Elite players, on the other hand are some of the most helpful, knowledgeable, and accommodating people I have met. I have even had a couple who have stopped doing whatever it was they were doing specifically to come help me navigate a boss mechanic I didn't understand or work on tweaking my build a bit. If it weren't for some of these wonderful people, I would have no clue how attributes affect your skillbar, among other things that may be instinctual for someone else... > > The type of low-skill-level player you describe unfortunately exists as well. There are those who have less than optimal builds and gear and they will lie in order to get into an elite (notice I didn't say "elitist") group and then cry to the forum when someone calls them out. I'd apologize on behalf of their bad behavior, but it's not in my nature to support people who misrepresent themselves. > Great post. Now I am probably diving into anecdotal evidence here, but how many of these 'low-skill, all green gear WHammos' are there really. I don't think I've actually ever encountered one because I would kick if I was suspicious before any salt begins (only if the person is unresponsive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism. > > > > > > You mean a video game? > > > > > > You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them. > > > Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play. > > > > You can claim all day that "this is just people being people" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just some types of activities trigger conflicts easier than others. > > What kinds of activities are you talking about? Games that require teamwork to complete a goal always end with players doing this. > Competitive shooters; you didn't choose the right weapon/character so we lost, you suck, get out. You went through the wrong door, uninstall the game. > RPGs with the option for co-op; you're using _that_ gear? Get off my team. You missed a dodge? Get out. You didn't heal me half a second after I took damage? You suck. > MOBAs; you're playing this game with me? I hate you. > > No matter what game or system is used, players turn into jerks as soon as they decide they're better than someone else. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokh.2695 Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism. > > > > > > > > You mean a video game? > > > > > > > > You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them. > > > > Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play. > > > > > > You can claim all day that "this is just people being people" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just some types of activities trigger conflicts easier than others. > > > > What kinds of activities are you talking about? Games that require teamwork to complete a goal always end with players doing this. > > Competitive shooters; you didn't choose the right weapon/character so we lost, you suck, get out. You went through the wrong door, uninstall the game. > > RPGs with the option for co-op; you're using _that_ gear? Get off my team. You missed a dodge? Get out. You didn't heal me half a second after I took damage? You suck. > > MOBAs; you're playing this game with me? I hate you. > > > > No matter what game or system is used, players turn into jerks as soon as they decide they're better than someone else. > > Exactly. So you agree that human behavior is the problem and not content? Heck, back seat gaming a single player game can be done in a toxic matter. Do you remember your brothers/sisters/peers ever going: "Jump!! NO!! Shoot! There, top left, are you blind?! What are you, stupid?! Gimme that, I can't watch, I'll do it for you!" (On a side note to something I read: Sure, a personal opinion is always relevant to the person that holds it. It can still be of little value to a discusion, f.e. the opinion to not wanting to discus is legit as a personal choice but hinders discussion. A personal opinion, while holding high value for an individual, can still be more than just unpopular. It can, if acted upon or enforced onto others be harmful to a community. Doing things for the lulz, and the opinion that lulz can only be achieved through griefing others, to denying other players with the same rights the fun thy seek, is more than an unpopular opinion. It basically says toxicity is never a problem because it creates lulz and lulz matter to me so everyone should be fine with it. I won't discus this here as it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. If you're a troll, you know you're a troll and you know that only other trolls find your trolling funny, while your fun only exists as long as other ppl are ripped of their fun. You just decide that your fun is more valuable than their "normie" fun. Doing that is, imho, despicable, defending it as a way of life while arguing that your opinion is relevant and should be taken into account by others is hypocritical on top.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashabhi.1365 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Rasta.2371" said: > > @"Ashabhi.1365" said: > > > @"reaVer.4056" said: > > > > @"Ashabhi.1365" said: > > > > My two coppers' worth: > > > > > > > > I am a casual player. There is no way in hell I would try to join a seasoned party. It's not because they're "elitists" but because as a casual player, I know deep in my gaming heart that I don't have the skills necessary to be a part of their team. I wouldn't do that to them. On the other hand, I am not a complete dolt either. I am perfectly capable of surviving and spanking enemies. I don't deserve to be treated like I am dirt just to allow someone to stroke their own ego. > > > > > > > > The content shouldn't change. There should be things that I am unable to do with my current skill level. I don't want ANet to "dumb down" the dungeons and fractals so that I can compete with the ultra kitten min/maxxer who has been running hardcore mode since creation. The issue that I do have however is that Mr. kitten Ultra Min/Maxxer needs to hold his tongue. There is no reason for him (or her) to treat me like spam just because I don't spend 24 hours a day thinking about how I can eke out one more point of DPS. Be elite. Be great at what you do. You don't have to include me for me to be satisfied with the game. Just don't be a kitten about it. > > > > > > > > EDIT: Awww how cute!... My post had kittens! > > > > > > Except elitists don't treat you like spam if you're honest with them. They will ask you to leave from their groups and will try to tolerate you in map events, but they will not start off lobbing insults in your direction if they know where you're coming from. What sets players off is when the Aurc Basic map meta is about to begin and someone starts requesting help on Balthazar HP. And the problem isn't even that the person wants to do Balthazar HP, but that the map is full; people can't join and are at risk of sitting out the event while this person is taking a slot for something trivial. It's the apparent disinterest in other player's situation that annoys the majority of players. > > > > > > And as @"Etheri.5406" states, these players join and lie to the players already present in the group; they end up wasting everyone's time and that is where the insults start flying. Furthermore insults only fly when they can be bothered to correct you, if they can't be bothered they will just kick you. And in case of special demands, not saying anything is the same as lying. When you understand this simple fact and are outright honest with the players in the groups, in the maps, etc. ahead of time, they will respond accordingly and you will find that they remain courteous with you throughout the exchange. > > > > > > You can even test this for yourself, if you start an LFG "I am new" for whatever content you decide to do. You wait a little, players join; you do as your told and viola you get your dailies done, you get good loot and you don't have to die in the process. Even if you die, you will find that these players are a lot more patient with you than they normally are. And all this is simply because you're honest with them. > > > > I agree with you wholeheartedly. Most high-end players will be more than happy to help, or at least ask you nicely if you wouldn't mind leaving the group because blahblahblah. I have the utmost respect for them. What the general player needs to understand is that there is a BIG difference between an Elite player and an Elitist. > > > > The type of elitist kitten I was talking about is the one that disparages you in map chat or joins your group and realizes quickly that you're a group of beginners (without asking, I might add) and then abuses the group because it's not up to her/his expectations. I don't give a kitten what some egotistical uber player thinks. Courtesy will get a helluva lot more results than what we tend to hear from "those guys." > > > > Elite players, on the other hand are some of the most helpful, knowledgeable, and accommodating people I have met. I have even had a couple who have stopped doing whatever it was they were doing specifically to come help me navigate a boss mechanic I didn't understand or work on tweaking my build a bit. If it weren't for some of these wonderful people, I would have no clue how attributes affect your skillbar, among other things that may be instinctual for someone else... > > > > The type of low-skill-level player you describe unfortunately exists as well. There are those who have less than optimal builds and gear and they will lie in order to get into an elite (notice I didn't say "elitist") group and then cry to the forum when someone calls them out. I'd apologize on behalf of their bad behavior, but it's not in my nature to support people who misrepresent themselves. > > > Great post. Now I am probably diving into anecdotal evidence here, but how many of these 'low-skill, all green gear WHammos' are there really. I don't think I've actually ever encountered one because I would kick if I was suspicious before any salt begins (only if the person is unresponsive). Trust me, they're out there. I was talking with one the other day. He had all the gear (Wallet Warrior) and looked good with his wardrobe, but knew absolutely nothing about the activity we were involved in. Rather than admit he was sub par and ask for help in order to gain the experience, he was trying to explain to us how great he was and then proved how unskilled he really was... yeah, we kicked him. Thankfully, we were in open world and not depending on him for a team activity. (Sidebar: He could have been a she, because internet.) As I said, I am not a high-level player by any means, but I'm not unskilled either. We didn't kick him because he was bad. We kicked him because his ego made him stupid. Had he come out and said he didn't understand, it would have been a whole other story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"lokh.2695" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism. > > > > > > > > > > You mean a video game? > > > > > > > > > > You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them. > > > > > Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play. > > > > > > > > You can claim all day that "this is just people being people" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just some types of activities trigger conflicts easier than others. > > > > > > What kinds of activities are you talking about? Games that require teamwork to complete a goal always end with players doing this. > > > Competitive shooters; you didn't choose the right weapon/character so we lost, you suck, get out. You went through the wrong door, uninstall the game. > > > RPGs with the option for co-op; you're using _that_ gear? Get off my team. You missed a dodge? Get out. You didn't heal me half a second after I took damage? You suck. > > > MOBAs; you're playing this game with me? I hate you. > > > > > > No matter what game or system is used, players turn into jerks as soon as they decide they're better than someone else. > > > > Exactly. > > So you agree that human behavior is the problem and not content? No, it's both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamoBadger.8531 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"lokh.2695" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"CamoBadger.8531" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > Anet is responsible for releasing content that by design encourages conflict, toxicity and elitism. > > > > > > > > > > > > You mean a video game? > > > > > > > > > > > > You can claim all day that the "design" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just people being people. Every single game that allows players to interact with one another has those who act like jerks on a regular basis, no matter what design or system of gameplay is used. It's just more apparent in games with teamwork because the human drive to succeed is challenged by people who aren't at the level of skill we desire everyone to be at; some people manifest this as hostility toward other players or the game itself, while others handle it better because losing in a video game isn't as big a deal to them. > > > > > > Unfortunately this means that some people turn into kitten just to prevent failure, which is where kicking people just for playing a class or not having meta gear comes into play. > > > > > > > > > > You can claim all day that "this is just people being people" encourages negative behavior from players, but this is just some types of activities trigger conflicts easier than others. > > > > > > > > What kinds of activities are you talking about? Games that require teamwork to complete a goal always end with players doing this. > > > > Competitive shooters; you didn't choose the right weapon/character so we lost, you suck, get out. You went through the wrong door, uninstall the game. > > > > RPGs with the option for co-op; you're using _that_ gear? Get off my team. You missed a dodge? Get out. You didn't heal me half a second after I took damage? You suck. > > > > MOBAs; you're playing this game with me? I hate you. > > > > > > > > No matter what game or system is used, players turn into jerks as soon as they decide they're better than someone else. > > > > > > Exactly. > > > > So you agree that human behavior is the problem and not content? > > No, it's both. No, it isn't. You just agreed that people interacting with one another in a game will end in someone becoming a tool regardless of the game or the content. So either you're saying that all game companies are responsible for people being jerks in games, in which case why on earth are you even playing games at all? Or you have no idea what you're talking about and have such a warped opinion about the human race and companies being evil that you refuse to believe that people can be flawed without some other intervening force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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